Rifle Scopes Totally disgusted with Leupold

[XLIV]

Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

I like them. They've been good to me on the rifle and on the phone. I wont base my buying decision soley on what I read on the www.

If I have a problem with anything I spend my money on then I first ask the manufacture to remedy it. If they dont then they dont get my money.

You should always have a spare if your life depends on something.

I will say without reservation - friends dont let friends buy simmons.

The only thing I can say about Leupold for certain is that 90% of the people who use it don't pronounce it correctly.

44

 

[akrapovic]

Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

I'm not familiar with Leupold's recent QC issues. However after owning a S&B I will never go back. A perfect, problem free Leupold is still not on the same level as a top tier scope.

 

[BobinNC]

Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: akrapovic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm not familiar with Leupold's recent QC issues. However after owning a S&B I will never go back. A perfect, problem free Leupold is still not on the same level as a top tier scope. </div></div>

You know I read a lot of comments on this thread, some were intelligent, some were angry, and some were sad. But I had the read your post two or three times, before I got it.

Let's talk some facts:

The cheapest S&B tactical scope starts at a street price of around $2500. The most expensive S&B Tactical scope tops out at around $3100.

The cheapest Leupold Tactical (MK4) scope sells for a street price of around $700. The most expensive for around $1700. I would hope with those price differentials, that S&B is two to three times BETTER than anything that Leupold makes.

I don't know what Leupold could build IF they chose to compete at the S&B level. They haven't really tried, have they?

But this thread is not about who makes the "best". What it is all about however, is an American Company outsourcing their reputation, quality and goodwill, by turning their production over to Asia to increase their "BOTTOM LINE".

I don't have a problem with S&B. I don't have a problem with anyone buying S&B. I don't even have a problem with the fact that S&B is made in Europe and not the US.

But just remember this: The next time some madman in Europe decides that closing the North Atlantic is not a bad idea; where are we going to get the gear our boys might need?

Like them or not, Leupold (along with USO), is a strategic American resource. And Leupold by turning themselves into a scope assembler, instead of a scope maker; by outsourcing the actual making of shit to China and other countries of similar persuasion; is a national disaster of the first order.

As always, buy the "best" you can afford. And if you cannot afford to buy the very "best", you buy the "good enough". Leupold has always been "good enough", until now. The jury is still out on whether Leupold can get their mojo back....

Bob

 

[427Cobra]

Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

Heres how I see it, I have a moral duty to fix the planes I work on correctly, the safety of the crews, passengers, and the people on the ground are my 1 priority, I'm very lucky that I work where I work, in past jobs my morals conflicted with the companies bottom dollar, and I was labeled a problem, I never waved from nor will I deviate from my morals, if I don't thinks its safe, its grounded, period, with the full support of my coworkers, and leadership. Now back to my earlier statement, Sell What You Shoot, and Shoot What You Sell, yes its going to hurt bussiness in the short term Terry, but in the long run it will repay in leaps and bounds, simply tell your customers that have a big problem with ..........., heres the reasons why, and what you recommend, and you will not touch a product from company..........., period!

 

[Ken Darnell]

Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

I think that some people are of the belief that all Leupold products are made overseas or with overseas parts. While some of the lower line stuff is made overseas, THE MARK 4 LINE IS MADE IN OREGON. The GLASS is out sourced. How many scope manufactures grind and coat their own lenses? I would hazard to guess that number is pretty small.

Just wanted to throw that back in the mix.

Ken

 

[chpprguy]

Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ken Darnell</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The GLASS is out sourced. How many scope manufactures grind and coat their own lenses? I would hazard to guess that number is pretty small.

Just wanted to throw that back in the mix.

Ken </div></div>

I am curious as to how many don't outsource their glass....
After taking an optics course (for laser work and welding)
we dipped a little bit into glass making/grinding and what the coatings do....
seems a little science/art.......

 

[psinclair]

Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

Didnt Leupold used to grind and coat their lenses here in the US?

 

[427Cobra]

Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ken Darnell</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think that some people are of the belief that all Leupold products are made overseas or with overseas parts. While some of the lower line stuff is made overseas, THE MARK 4 LINE IS MADE IN OREGON. The GLASS is out sourced. How many scope manufactures grind and coat their own lenses? I would hazard to guess that number is pretty small.

Just wanted to throw that back in the mix.

Ken </div></div>

Read the first post from Terry, assembled in Oregon, but not enough parts to be marked Made In The USA.

 

[Ken Darnell]

Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

Cobra,

I got that. Later in the thread, I posted some information gained from a Leupold rep. He stated that everything in the MK4 line is made and assembled in Oregon, except the glass, that is imported.

The removal of the made in the USA label, is stemming from a lawsuit in CA under some of thier consumer laws. The lawsuit was against Leatherman. Leatherman got him with a big judgement, later reversed, but I guess the legals and Leupold decided not to take the chance. There is a link the the other post.


Ken

 

[softcock]

Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

I would like to add a little to what is thrown in this Thread also. I been in Leu. Stevens campus and in the workplace myself as a guest. (multigle connected buildings) They give tours threw the place also on days at certain hours for guest tours. The 2 times I walked threw ( The last time was less than 2 years ago )
All the glass is sub-contracted-outsourced from different manufactures.
All product that ( Is Not Gold Ring ) is not done in-house, but Import .
I am also pretty sure that some of the hard Anodizing (not all) is sub-contracted out Locally.
(with my eyes) There were at least 40+ CNC cutting with at least two or three of them being those high-end one's that have a step-in door and do cutting with multiple heads with 360 deg./both sides. There was Rack-upon-Rack of 1-piece scope body's hanging in-the-white, for all the goldring line of Leupold. They were doing all the scope rings and bases and most other main scope parts right there in front of people. Also I saw 3 huge agitation sand-bins full of fresh cut parts for tool mark removal prior to Anodizing.
Also they were running work 2-3 shifts 6 days a week . Also they did there own laser etching on glass and BDC knobs too.

This is just what I saw personally & I am not, nor ever been an employee Leu. Stevens.
.

 

[427Cobra]

Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

Thanx Ken.

 

[teknikallysekure]

Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: softcock</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would like to add a little to what is thrown in this Thread also. I been in Leu. Stevens campus and in the workplace myself as a guest. (multigle connected buildings) They give tours threw the place also on days at certain hours for guest tours. The 2 times I walked threw ( The last time was less than 2 years ago )
All the glass is sub-contracted-outsourced from different manufactures.
All product that ( Is Not Gold Ring ) is not done in-house, but Import .
I am also pretty sure that some of the hard Anodizing (not all) is sub-contracted out Locally.
(with my eyes) There were at least 40+ CNC cutting with at least two or three of them being those high-end one's that have a step-in door and do cutting with multiple heads with 360 deg./both sides. There was Rack-upon-Rack of 1-piece scope body's hanging in-the-white, for all the goldring line of Leupold. They were doing all the scope rings and bases and most other main scope parts right there in front of people. Also I saw 3 huge agitation sand-bins full of fresh cut parts for tool mark removal prior to Anodizing.
Also they were running work 2-3 shifts 6 days a week . Also they did there own laser etching on glass and BDC knobs too.

This is just what I saw personally & I am not, nor ever been an employee Leu. Stevens.
. </div></div>

Yeaaaaah, but where were those CNC machines made?

 

[dmachine]

Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dirknar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All I can say is Ive never had a bad Leupy.Ive had a few and Ive got 2 mk4's right now and they've been good to me.. Thats ALL I know..

I just bought another Leupy Mk4 6.5-20x50 TMR from BigRiverTactical..for 1159.. The similar NF 5-22x50 is 17-1800 dollors. I just got a chance to look through a NF tonight at the range and It was sweet glass but the price point IS much higher.. I keep seeing ppl saying that NF isnt that much more.. YES it is.. 6-700 dollors more, is a lot of money. Heck its another gun..

thats all. Not much to add to the debate.. although I wish Leupy would do MOA/MOA..</div></div>

THe NF 5.5-22x (50 or 56mm) can be had for about $1600, (Optics Planet) you paid almost $1200 for the Leupold, thats more like $400 more.... not $700. Is it worth it? It is to me. Also, most people don't realize that better glass doesn't need the same amount of power to see well. ie: If you take a 14x Leupold and a 10x IOR and look across a long field, the IOR will let you see farther clearer and with less power. In this case, you could have bought the 3.5-15x56 NF for about $1450 and been able to see just as far with better glass. (and a much better overall scope) This would have cost you about $250 more than you paid.
Don't get me wrong, Leupold scopes can be good, (if your lucky, which I never am) and if you get one of them you'll be fine. The 2 thing's I used to like about Leupold was the cost and that they are nice and light. However, at least 75% of the Leupold scopes I'v bought have had something wrong with them. Usually a canted ret. or tracking problems.

 

[Bevan]

Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

So, if I was thinking of buying a 3.5-10x40 Mark 4 with M1s or M2s, but leupold are rubbish, what's a better alternative at the same price point??

 

[deersniper]

Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

I would buy a NF 2.5-10x24 for 1193. about 100-200 more $$, but you get a better scope and ill. reticle for the money, along with matching reticle/adjustment. For 1291 you can get a 2.5-10x32. You really need to handle a NF to see/feel the difference.

If you are patient you can find lightly used 3.5-15x50s for 12-1300.

-dan

 

[montyb]

Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

selecting optics is all about balancing the compromises. if you step down to any scope from S&B, USO or Premier, you are giving up something. if you are not willing to give up that something, you are looking at $3K+.

i have a USO Canadian and NF 3.5-15. truly great scopes. but the bulk of my rifles wear Leupolds. over a dozen of them. everything from a 1-4x VXII to the 3.5-10 Mk4 M2 i have not had one fail, but i have sent a few in for M1 elevation knobs.

they are what they are. sure, i'd like .1 mil knobs, but if i can't live with setting up a range card to MOA, i simply get something that does have .1 mil. end of problem.

i'm looking at the VX7 for my next optics purchase. i like that knob system.

but in reality, i doubt that anyone here knows Leupolds business better than Leupold. if they don't see a need to compete with NF, they are probably better off not going there. what we PR shooters (a small slice of the pie) want and what they can make money selling are probably not always the same thing.

 

[saleen]

Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

I guess I should have done more research before buying the two Mark 4s that I just bought! I have an old Mk4 from the early-mid 90's that has been an excellent scope, and I just naturally gravitated back to this brand when the time came. Crap.

Hopefully neither of mine will be lemons....


Saleen

 

[858]

Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ken Darnell</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think that some people are of the belief that all Leupold products are made overseas or with overseas parts. While some of the lower line stuff is made overseas, THE MARK 4 LINE IS MADE IN OREGON. The GLASS is out sourced. How many scope manufactures grind and coat their own lenses? I would hazard to guess that number is pretty small.

Just wanted to throw that back in the mix.

Ken </div></div>

Read the first post from Terry, assembled in Oregon, but not enough parts to be marked Made In The USA. </div></div>

The same goes for most of the NF scopes on the market.

 

[matt33]

Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

I realize that I have far less experience than many here, but I just bought a Leupold MK4 6.5-20x and couldn't be happier. I paid $1,050 NIB for the MK4 with a TMR reticle vs. $1,675 for the NF. I recently compared several tactical scopes side by side at a local optics dealer. I realize NF is generally outstanding stuff, but another guy here was also not that impressed with his new NXS. Here's my excerpt from that recent thread:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I’m a total newb here, but my recent trip to my local NF dealer yielded similar results to the photos above. Initially, I went to look at different NF reticles in an attempt to decide which NXS to order. However, to my eyes, the Leupold MK4 6.5-20x50mm was noticeably more clear and crisp than the NF NXS 5.5-22x50mm. I was stunned looking at these two side by side. Based on everything I’ve read, I expected the NF to be considerably clearer. I adjusted the NF for more than 15 minutes thinking I must have something adjusted wrong. I walked away convinced something was wrong with the shop's demo model. At this point, I think I'm going to save $600 and go with the Leupold.
</div></div>


http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...rue#Post1117590

 

[858]

Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deersniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would buy a NF 2.5-10x24 for 1193. about 100-200 more $$, but you get a better scope and ill. reticle for the money, along with matching reticle/adjustment. For 1291 you can get a 2.5-10x32. You really need to handle a NF to see/feel the difference.

If you are patient you can find lightly used 3.5-15x50s for 12-1300.

-dan </div></div>

I sold a NF 3.5-15X50 and bought another 3.5-10X40 MK4 <GASP>. I didn't need a two pound scope on a lightweight hunting rifle. The price difference was substantial.

My only gripe with the MK4 is that I can't get matching knobs and reticule (and I'm told that will be changing). I can however walk into Leupold and have any problem fixed which for what I'm doing makes up for a whole lot of shortcomings.

I have yet to feel even the slightest twinge of regret for selling the NF, the glass was not very clear and the parallax adjustment was finicky (compared to other scopes).

 

[Magnumdood]

Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

It may have been mentioned earlier, and if it was, I apologize for repeating the information.

In sheer numbers, snipers who deploy in real-life are a very small percentage of shooters. However, you can bet the shooters who don't belong to that small, elite fraternity of real snipers pay very close attention to what the snipers do, say, and use.

It was mentioned that many shooters think along the lines of, 'if it's good enough for the army...'

Many, many shooters want to hunt white tail deer with the same scope LowLight goes to work with. Does it make ANY sense? Yeah, it does. Do they really need that much scope? No. Do they want it? You bet. Will they buy it if they can? You bet.

The shooting community also listens to what real snipers say about scopes. A very small percentage of the overall scope users (snipers) have an overwhelming influence on what the rest of the shooting community buys. It doesn't matter if it makes sense or if it's reasonable - it's true.

This site probably has more influence on the optical market than any other single source in existence. It makes NO sense at all for Leupold to not do back flips, hand-stands or whatever they need to do to appease the real-world operators on this site.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 858</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deersniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would buy a NF 2.5-10x24 for 1193. about 100-200 more $$, but you get a better scope and ill. reticle for the money, along with matching reticle/adjustment. For 1291 you can get a 2.5-10x32. You really need to handle a NF to see/feel the difference.

If you are patient you can find lightly used 3.5-15x50s for 12-1300.

-dan </div></div>


I sold a NF 3.5-15X50 and bought another 3.5-10X40 MK4 <GASP>. I didn't need a two pound scope on a lightweight hunting rifle. The price difference was substantial.

My only gripe with the MK4 is that I can't get matching knobs and reticule (and I'm told that will be changing). I can however walk into Leupold and have any problem fixed which for what I'm doing makes up for a whole lot of shortcomings.

I have yet to feel even the slightest twinge of regret for selling the NF, the glass was not very clear and the parallax adjustment was finicky (compared to other scopes).

</div></div>

The first question is, why are you comparing a 3-15X to a 10X when NF makes a very small 2.5-10X ? and the price difference gets closer together.

 

[858]

Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 858</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deersniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would buy a NF 2.5-10x24 for 1193. about 100-200 more $$, but you get a better scope and ill. reticle for the money, along with matching reticle/adjustment. For 1291 you can get a 2.5-10x32. You really need to handle a NF to see/feel the difference.

If you are patient you can find lightly used 3.5-15x50s for 12-1300.

-dan </div></div>


I sold a NF 3.5-15X50 and bought another 3.5-10X40 MK4 <GASP>. I didn't need a two pound scope on a lightweight hunting rifle. The price difference was substantial.

My only gripe with the MK4 is that I can't get matching knobs and reticule (and I'm told that will be changing). I can however walk into Leupold and have any problem fixed which for what I'm doing makes up for a whole lot of shortcomings.

I have yet to feel even the slightest twinge of regret for selling the NF, the glass was not very clear and the parallax adjustment was finicky (compared to other scopes).

</div></div>

The first question is, why are you comparing a 3-15X to a 10X when NF makes a very small 2.5-10X ? and the price difference gets closer together. </div></div>

The 2.5-10 wasn't readily available at the time in a configuration that would have actually narrowed the price discrepancy. I also didn't want a 32mm Obj NF considering how dark the 50mm objective was. The objective size has the greatest impact on overall weight so going smaller with NF was out of the question.

What was the second question?

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

Well, not this is the place for it, but I have to disagree on the overall image of the NF 2.5-10X, and I think maybe it was more you than the scope. But again this isn't the place to discuss the effectiveness of the NF. As my opinion differs from yours.

 

[Terry Cross]

Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 858</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ken Darnell</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think that some people are of the belief that all Leupold products are made overseas or with overseas parts. While some of the lower line stuff is made overseas, THE MARK 4 LINE IS MADE IN OREGON. The GLASS is out sourced. How many scope manufactures grind and coat their own lenses? I would hazard to guess that number is pretty small.

Just wanted to throw that back in the mix.

Ken </div></div>

Read the first post from Terry, assembled in Oregon, but not enough parts to be marked Made In The USA. </div></div>

The same goes for most of the NF scopes on the market.

</div></div>

NF has never made any bones about where their scopes are made. The NXS series of larger scopes all have a huge "made in Japan" engraved on the scope. The smaller scopes have a huge "made in USA" engraved on them.

I am almost positive that their Made In USA scopes use imported lenses but there are enough components and assembly done within our borders for them to put the USA stamp on them. If, in fact that is the case, Leupold should be able to put the country of origin on their Mk 4s as US also. They are not doing so.

I know that Leupold has huge machining centers and turn a lot of their main tubes. Heck, they were even making the main tubes for a competitor a while back. Maybe still are. However, they are still using more imported components than just the lenses. As mentioned earlier in this thread, Leupold has almost always used imported lenses on their scopes yet they qualified as US made.

 

[krw]

Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

Terry I agree my 5.5x22 NF scope on my KMW built rifle has 'Made in Japan' on it. When I purchased the scope and seen that I called NF immediately, it was explained to me that the largest single component of the scope was the tube and it was outsourced in Japan bacause it was made to NF's specs and no one would do it here in the USA. Since the Tube is the largest component by law NF had to have the country of origin on it. I was told explecitely the all NF scopes are assembled in USA. All this came from NF customer service. Didn't even bother to look on my new 2.5x10x32. krw

 

[WillAdams]

Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

IIRC, it takes THREE (3) full steps of assembly (in USA) to classify as "Made in America". Sad state of affairs if Leuppy can't even say that on the "top of the line" Mk4.

 

[Pygmycoho1]

Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

This is the exact reason why I don't buy craftsman anymore. Everthing but the hand tools, and even some of those are made overseas. The quality is crap. I know because I have seen 2 saws made by them side by side being used. The more powerful newer china made one couldn't keep up with the half as powerful 15 year old u.s.a. made one. It makes me feel dirty just to walk in that place. It takes so long to earn a good reputation. Now they're cashing that in.

 

[okiefired]

Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

This thread has gotten funny. 23 pages and we still havn't figured out if Leupold is "made enough" in the US to deserve the sticker or grace these pages. As far as OUR economy goes, I'm not sure "made in China" is any worse than "made in Japan" or "made in Germany" but it sure catches a lot more shit. I can remeber when "made in Japan" was the dirty phrase now its concidered by many to be a badge of quality.

okie

 

[hank440]

Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

The last time I broke a Craftsmen ratchet I took it in and they wanted to guve some even crappier substittute, so I asked to get my money back. Then I went to the rack and bought the exact same tool with the refund and told the clerk, now wouldn't it had been easier just to give me the free tool I wanted in the first place. All I got was a blank stare

 

[Asm1]

Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: okiefired</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This thread has gotten funny. 23 pages and we still havn't figured out if Leupold is "made enough" in the US to deserve the sticker or grace these pages. As far as OUR economy goes, I'm not sure "made in China" is any worse than "made in Japan" or "made in Germany" but it sure catches a lot more shit. I can remeber when "made in Japan" was the dirty phrase now its concidered by many to be a badge of quality.

okie </div></div>

If they had enough to say MADE IN USA or could have the ability to say that why not ?

your right about made in JAPAN a dirty word at one time.
Made in JAPAN or GERMANY I AM SURE WAS HARD TO SWALLOW for WWII vets ,how many americans gave there lives in WWII ?,then come home from HELL and sooner than later MAD IN JAPAN or GERMANY is in there face..

18 years ago A WWII vet wanted me to take him on a part of his FARM that was hard to get to,he said bring that big jeep(FJ40 LANDCRUSIER) over and take me down there ,I said yeser ,he jumped in and sat down see's TOYOTA on the glove box and yelled SOB and jmped out cused me hard,I said Jack whats wrong he said I didnt Know this was a TOYOTA I fought these MFr's in WWII ,I said Jack the WAR is over we are at peace with JAPAN he said F*** YOU SON you where not there. I never will forget that Day and never forget how fast things change.


I dont ahve a problem with mad in JAPAN or GERMAN products,But CHINA CAN KMA !!

 

[RemmyTim]

Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

Very interesting read. I have been a huge fan of Leupold over the years, but I admit, the last couple years I have started looking at others. While their price has sky rocketed, their quality has followed. They are now priced 2 to 3 times as much as others but are on par as far as glass goes. They do have their benefits like thier warranty and re-sale value, but thats all I see anymore.

I am really turned off by their "other" products like bino's,spotting scopes, and rangefinders and their gimmick scopes like the worthless VX-L. They need to get back to making affordable, no bullshit, beat the crap out of it and still works scopes for the "working man".

I guess the all mighty dollar finally gets ahold of everyone............

 

[GUNNER75]

Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold


What scopes/optics are 100% manufactured in the USA today???

 

[okiefired]

Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

First off let me say I am niether condemming nor defending Leupold, I just find a lot of the points made here somewhat.....intertaining.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ASM1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If they had enough to say MADE IN USA or could have the ability to say that why not ?

your right about made in JAPAN a dirty word at one time.
Made in JAPAN or GERMANY I AM SURE WAS HARD TO SWALLOW for WWII vets ,how many americans gave there lives in WWII ?,then come home from HELL and sooner than later MAD IN JAPAN or GERMANY is in there face..

18 years ago A WWII vet wanted me to take him on a part of his FARM that was hard to get to,he said bring that big jeep(FJ40 LANDCRUSIER) over and take me down there ,I said yeser ,he jumped in and sat down see's TOYOTA on the glove box and yelled SOB and jmped out cused me hard,I said Jack whats wrong he said I didnt Know this was a TOYOTA I fought these MFr's in WWII ,I said Jack the WAR is over we are at peace with JAPAN he said F*** YOU SON you where not there. I never will forget that Day and never forget how fast things change.


I dont ahve a problem with mad in JAPAN or GERMAN products,But CHINA CAN KMA !!</div></div>

Where do we draw the line? Two parts made in US? Five parts? Main tube? Assembly? How much is enough? Kinda like saying that 32 Ford over there is a GM product because its powered by a small block Chevrolet. That stuff just dont fly with me.
If we're gonna refuse to deal with anyone we've done battle with in the past we're gonna be some mighty lonely people.....and I'm not saying thats nesessarily a bad thing, just something we need to concider.

Oh, I think it IS definately the economy, thats the reason I specified it. Didn't think we wanted to open that whole can of human rights worms in a "scope" thread. Not a country mentioned here is clean when it comes to that. I'll admit that China is worse than most today, but not even close to the worst of the lot we (the US) do business with and aid.

okie

 

[SpotcheckBilly]

Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

As I understand it, Leupold's Board of Directors hired a new CEO a few years ago under the directive that maximizing profits at all costs were to be his main objective. We've been seeing the results for some time now, and they're not pretty. They've polluted the Mk4 lineup while their reps continue to misrepresent and lie about it. Their tolerances are getting sloppier all the time, and all their CS people can do is make excuses. Instead of spending their R&D budget on worthwhile improvements they come out with abominations like the VX-L, 24kt gold plating, garish anodizing jobs, and did I hear somebody say pink binos?

Meanwhile, their competition is surpassing them quickly. For example, show me one of their VX-III's and I'll show you a Sightron SIII that'll kick its butt for less cost.

Some shooters are going to be diehard Leupold fans, no matter what happens kinda like those few remaining diehard General Motors customers who continue to buy those products because of brand loyalty that was earned back in the 1950's and 1960's but no longer deserved. GM no longer deserves that kind of customer loyalty and neither does Leupold. But buy whatever floats your boat, this is still a feee country - well, sorta.



As for me, Leupold started to show their true colors when they began to fuck over Dick Thomas several years ago. I can't remember how many Leupold scopes I've bought since the 1970's, including several REAL Mk4's, but I can tell you that I haven't bought a Leupold since the Premier Reticle fiasco. And I sincerely doubt that I'll ever buy another one.

 

[Yorman]

Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SpotcheckBilly</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As for me, Leupold started to show their true colors when they began to fuck over Dick Thomas several years ago. I can't remember how many Leupold scopes I've bought since the 1970's, including several REAL Mk4's, but I can tell you that I haven't bought a Leupold since the Premier Reticle fiasco. And I sincerely doubt that I'll ever buy another one. </div></div>

I don't think this has been mentioned in this thread until now. They didn't even let the Thomas family finish kicking the last of the dirt covering Mr. Thomas before Leupold screwed them over. Except as an option for hunting scopes Leupold had lost me as a customer. When the Premier Reticle fiasco occured the door was closed.

As stated by others there are many viable alternatives to Leupold if you desire.

 

[okiefired]

Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BillPrudden</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Difference between yesterday, and yesterday's practices, and today and today's.

Admitted no one is "clean", if such a state even exists, but in the rare circumstances when I can control where my dollar goes, I choose to, as do I think many others.

Bill </div></div>

Dont get me wrong Bill, for the most part I'm in agreement with you. Just pointing out that it is very hard to find anything in this country that meets the criteria you've set for your scopes. Just curious, what automobiles do you spend your money on, computer, TV, cell phone, stereo, appliances, clothes?

okie

 

[Rich Emmons]

Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

Pretty soon we will see "Made in Iraq". Seems like we can rebuild or support any nation but our own.

That last paragraph is very powerful Bill.

 

[Mr Flannel]

Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

All I know is this:

- Two MKIV 2.5-8x32 MR/Ts ordered for operational guns in the sandbox (2006)
- Two scopes arrive - three months later, wrong reticles, canted ~ 5-7deg
- Leupold notified - new scopes sent a month later
- New scopes arrive - one reticle canted, other with stray piece of reticle wire floating in lower r/h quadrant
- Buy S&B short dots - arrive two weeks later. Perfect.
- Get bitter and twisted about not buying decent kit in first place...

You wouldn't want your life to depend on it.

Goodbye Leupold

 

[Clark]

Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

Anyone who thinks the country of origin tells all about the quality of the product is going to be at an increasing disadvantage.

Anyone who thinks that a particular brand tells all about quality is at the mercy of that brand.

But none of us have the time, money, and effort to compare and evaluate all products.

Just like accuracy rituals, we are going to have to pick and choose from the folklore.

I just bought an IOR based on the stuff I read on this forum.
That worked out well.

 

[matth3wdean]

Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

I had a Leupold grace my rile collection about 3 months ago. After playing with it for a bit, I popped it right off and slung it on the internet. The scope I had was a Mark 4 M1.

Nothing about the Mark 4 tubes feels remotely beefy/strong at all. Also the M1 turrets felt like mush, I could not tell how many adjustments I was making with out really concentrating. I currently have a USO that I am really happy with, I think for my next scope I will try out a NF NXS.

 

[Cartman]

Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

I don't foresee getting into a war with Japan or Germany in the foreseeable future and they make great stuff -- so I buy it unless there is a competitive American product.

I do foresee getting into a war with China in the foreseeable future and they generally make crap -- so I try not to buy their stuff. Why help them kick my arse in the future?

I believe most Joe Six Pack consumers still assume everything Loopy makes is made in the USA.

And Mo Zam Beek, while you make some good points, without threads like this folks often lack the information they need to make the determination that they may not want to buy something.

 

[danr]

Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

I don't know. I was checking out a 8.5- 25 TMR M1 at my local gunshop just the other day. Both elevation/windage adjustments felt good just like my old 6.5-20 M1. Looking thru the scope, the glass looked very clear at 8.5 thru 25, the parallax knob brought several transformers I was viewing (100 to 300 yds approx.) into sharp focus, and I really liked the TMR reticle. I'm gonna mount that scope on one of my rifles. I think it will serve me well.

 

[okiefired]

Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

Man, this is a great thread. Those old Leupy's are getting cheaper by the minute.

okie

 

[johnAE308]

Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

My dentist has a saying: If you ignore your teeth, they'll go away.
Same is true of customers. Loopy hasn't yet learned this, but they will.

 

[Sean the Nailer]

Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Just Roy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SpotcheckBilly</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As for me, Leupold started to show their true colors when they began to fuck over Dick Thomas several years ago. I can't remember how many Leupold scopes I've bought since the 1970's, including several REAL Mk4's, but I can tell you that I haven't bought a Leupold since the Premier Reticle fiasco. And I sincerely doubt that I'll ever buy another one. </div></div>

I don't think this has been mentioned in this thread until now. They didn't even let the Thomas family finish kicking the last of the dirt covering Mr. Thomas before Leupold screwed them over. Except as an option for hunting scopes Leupold had lost me as a customer. When the Premier Reticle fiasco occured the door was closed.

As stated by others there are many viable alternatives to Leupold if you desire. </div></div>

Gentlemen, be careful. I started a thread about this very topic a few years ago. Wow, you should have seen all the guys here jumping down my throat. Whilst I totally agree with you, and said as much then, it has something to do with the WE ARE AMERICAN AND CAN BUY WHATEVER WE DAMN WELL CHOOSE TO CAUSE WE ARE FREE, and also something towards the ONE LITTLE THING THAT MAY BE VIEWED AS A BIT WRONG BY A COMPANY DOES NOT MEAN THAT THEY ARE TOTALLY BAD, FORGIVE AND BUY A GREAT PRODUCT.

Product loyalty is so very much important. So is fashion. They have one, so I need one too. Cause then I'll be better.

Yes, you will see my sarcasm here, as well as my cynicism. The point is, Leading is one thing, and being led is another. And I say this knowing that I'll get slammed for doing so.

Let the flames begin. Oh yeah, with regards to those flames, please show me exactly where I was/am wrong?

 

[neoncabbit]

Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

Interesting. I talked with americans at Sighmark Optics yesterday. All of their stuff is Japanese parts and they claim to be top notch quality. The tubes are stamped with "Made in Japan", but guess what? It is assembled in China. I guess the parts and tubes are made in Japan, but assembled in China... Got a Stress test review of one of their scopes coming up in a week or 2.

 

[Clark]

Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: W</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are several points that need to be addressed and they are as follows:

INTERNAL COMPONENTS FROM CHINA ARE SO POOR, THAT THE SPRINGS THAT HOLD THE ERECTOR TUBE IN PLACE CAN FAIL / FATIGUE ON DAY 1, AND I HAVE NEVER SEEN THEM LAST MORE THAN SIX MONTHS, EVER.

WHEN A SCOPE BEGINS TO FAIL BECAUSE OF POOR SPRINGS,..</div></div>

How long did the spring last under your caps lock key?
Maybe it was made in China, where you evidently think there is a time variable in the spring stress equation.

 

[chris223]

Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

ive always used their optics and like was said it looks like they are pimping themselves out to the highest bidder which seems like the typical ebb and flow for most american comp.
and that makes me sick...

 

[pklin1297]

Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

Completely off topic, sort of, but for those who own a Toyota Prius, at least five countries are involved in making the car battery alone. Who are you gonna blame if the part goes bad? Or why don't we keep the theme going and just blame China for it since one of the processes is performed in China. The world is flat once again. Global economy is reality, not hype. Quality control starts with the parent companies (eg. Leupold). If the direction and expectation they're giving/showing their Chinese OEM manufacturers is lacking/substandard, they will get substandard parts, simple as that. A given number of Chinese manufacturers are capable of producing parts up to, or exceed US and European standards and expectations, but if their bosses tell them to not try so hard due to elevated cost, they're going to do what the boss says.

I hope the prejudice you are carrying only applies to products of poor quality, not to the country, or people who are producing them based on business decision and direction. And I sincerely hope you are teaching your kids the same.