Vortex CS .. Kicks ass

[The King]

I love these threads. I do.

I just boxed up a Nightforce F1, and once it gets back it’s going in the rotation to fix my dead SB 3-20 that ate it last night.

They all break if you actually use them.

It’s the most complicated piece of the gun machinery, and it’s the highest wear item on the system. If it were any other industry and you were shipping a tube full of glass and mechanicals the box would say “fragile as fuck”

It goes Scope - Trigger - Action - Chassis - Barrel in complexity, and both scopes and triggers are the key failure points in our sport.

That said, I have owned maybe 10 of the China/Phillipines Vortexes and every one down to the last broke on me. Strike Eagle 1-8s, PST Gen 1s (4-16 and 2.5-10) and a couple gen 2s.

Since I have realistic expectations, my main guns still run an AMG UH1 Gen 2 for close work, and a 1-10 Razor (goddamn miracle scope) for DMRs.

The 1-10 Razor gives the best image through NV clip ons and clip on thermals I have ever seen. Beat the SB stuff and NF hands down.

The UH1 and Razor 1-10 are the only optics I have owned to date that have not broken.

As for mounting, I have a $500 torque screwdriver that gets calibrated yearly.

 

[Holliday]

Where is the information he claims to have? He knows how many scopes each company sells nationwide? And he knows the failure rates for each company and/or product? Not likely.. if he did have this information, why wouldn't he just share it? And if he can't share it, why not?

Sounds like a lot of "unnamed sources" we've heard so much about the last 4+ years.

Being a dullard does not make you interesting, just boring.

Show me where used specific numbers. In fact, they are conspicuously absent, with good reason. I said “(These numbers are extreme to illustrate a point, and not related to any actual data)” Obviously, I anticipated someone like you and tried to provide the appropriate “tools” to help you along, in advance.

In point of fact, you could take out the first part of my post where I say “I have it on good authority” and the rest of the post would stand on its own merit. Why? Because it is mostly hypothetical and personal ANECDOTES. I make this abundantly clear throughout.

To most people with a “reasonable IQ, the phrase “I have it on good authority” means nothing more than “take it or leave it”. There nothing in the rest of my post that relies soley on that “anecdote”. I clearly state that the “plural of anecdote is not data”.

My intial statement was left as more of a “Lets assume this is correct for a moment.” Yes, I may in fact be guilty of not further dumbing down my post for people with lower IQ and I apologize. I do make the erronious assumption that most people here have a reasonable or above average IQ.

I futher go on to state that “I design and sell products for a living.” and further supply “anecdotes” regarding my own business and dealing with tech support worldwide.

At the end, I made it clear that while I do not work for Vortex, I am in fact biased because I love their products, tech support, et al. My post was very clearly made to point out how there “may” be a lack of perspective. Nothing more. Anyone with an IQ over 85 should have been able to understand that without further explanation.

 

[Holliday]

Quality post. And I will be stealing that anecdote / data quote.

I’ve owned about every brand of scope out there and broken all of them.

Vortex service is bar-none the best and we model our customer service after them.

I get annoyed in the silly long-range Facebook groups when people start bashing on Vortex comparing a Viper to a Schmidt in terms of quality and longevity; they’re not the same animal whatsoever.

That being said, it was whack when the PST Gen 1 was released and the fanboys were gushing over how it was outclassing scopes 2-3x it’s price; the 2.5-10x was pretty good but the 6-24x was a dog in my book. Granted at the time there wasn’t any scope out there at that price point that was FFP and matching turrets / usable reticle.

That quote is not mine but thanks. In the age of the “ever increasing internet” I feel it is particularly relevant. We saw this type of skewing of anecdotes with police shootings in the past couple years. The same with AR-15s and crime. It is a real problem.

 

[deersniper]

They all break if you actually use them.

Sounds like you are compromising

 

[deersniper]

The 1-10 Razor gives the best image through NV clip ons and clip on thermals I have ever seen. Beat the SB stuff and NF hands down

I wish more scope designers would pay attention to this ?
Have you used it with thermals ?

 

[kriller134]

I torqued my razor to 50 in lbs and didn’t have any problems.

 

[The King]

Sounds like you are compromising

Not really. I like to experiment. Something cool comes out, I’ll try it. Bottom of market, top, wherever.

My “might need it” guns never have anything I view as experimental on them.

People just get these opinions that there is some magic wand they can waive at it and it’ll always work. I had those thoughts too.

Then I boxed up an NF, Hensoldt ZF, AI rifle, Knights APC..and sent them all off the same week for work.

And then I quit that. I’ll buy the best because it’s the most likely to keep working, but I won’t develop a religious attachment to these mechanical things. They are just machines.

And I WILL have a plan for when they die now, every time I need to.

 

[deersniper]

The ZCO Joke went over your head lol

What did you do to break an ai and nf?

 

[supercorndogs]

Owned and broken almost every brand huh. Seems maybe it’s not the scopes. Statistically, that’s nearly impossible with average to even hard use.
Also, I’d ask for proof before “stealing” data and spreading it around all the long range FB groups that annoy you.
Just my opinion.

Or more than one of each scope. I have sent a Razor to Vortex, an XTR, XTRII, and XTRIII to Burris, a Weaver 3-15 Tactical, LRHS and ERS to Bushnell, A TX5i to Steiner, and a Cronus to Athlon. I would say I have dealt with most brands CS. I am not overly hard on things. Most of the scopes I have sent in were non-functional from BNIB.

 

[db2000]

Or more than one of each scope. I have sent a Razor to Vortex, an XTR, XTRII, and XTRIII to Burris, a Weaver 3-15 Tactical, LRHS and ERS to Bushnell, A TX5i to Steiner, and a Cronus to Athlon. I would say I have dealt with most brands CS. I am not overly hard on things. Most of the scopes I have sent in were non-functional from BNIB.

Well that’s some shitty luck. Every brand of scope, BNIB already broken. Hard to believe but whatever.

 

[Gohring65]

Well that’s some shitty luck. Every brand of scope, BNIB already broken. Hard to believe but whatever.

Its always in the heat of their passion for cheap China tools wether it be negative or positive, that the stories of conformation gets a stretched. The thread killers always have to prove it with stories even if true are totally unbelievable. Lol

 

[db2000]

Its always in the heat of their passion for cheap China tools wether it be negative or positive, that the stories of conformation gets a stretched. The thread killers always have to prove it with stories even if true are totally unbelievable. Lol

Yep, and I’m here to call out all the bullshit. Too many people with the “I’ve done it all” stories around here.
I have a string of emails from any return I’ve done. Anyone with a string of emails is welcome to post a screenshot of every brand of new scope they’ve returned and I’ll 100% apologize. Otherwise, it’s practically statistically impossible.

 

[The King]

Yep, and I’m here to call out all the bullshit. Too many people with the “I’ve done it all” stories around here.
I have a string of emails from any return I’ve done. Anyone with a string of emails is welcome to post a screenshot of every brand of new scope they’ve returned and I’ll 100% apologize. Otherwise, it’s practically statistically impossible.

Just one of my email accounts and an off the cuff search- and I'm not doing a comprehensive research/redaction/etc project for an internet rando.

 

[The King]

The ZCO Joke went over your head lol

What did you do to break an ai and nf?

First NF I ever broke the parallax knob started doing some strange shit and then locked up. 8-32 NXS a long time ago. Mmmm...MLR reticle.

AI was the trigger.

My litany of broken shit is probably the 30 years I have been shooting long range combined with essentially an unlimited budget for buying shit. And I'm a scientist at heart so I like experimentation.

For example, this week its an Arken SH4 showing up....and a ZCO MPCT3 4-20. Haven't owned a ZCO or an Arken yet.

 

[deersniper]

Have you used your 1-10 with thermal clip ons ?

 

[The King]

Have you used your 1-10 with thermal clip ons ?

Yes. That’s the place I consider it most excellent in fact.

The image when viewing a TICO display is friggin flat and easy to get behind. Much better in person as well.

 

[Birddog6424]

I bought a Gen I PST back in the day. It broke on the first stage of my very first PRS match. The reticle canted about 40 degrees and you could wobble it.

Vortex replaced it promptly. But the replacement broke on day one of an Idaho elk hunt two months later. I rode out of camp, drove 4 hours back home, picked up my $75 Bushnell Sportview I had hunted with for 15 years. Drove back to elk camp, got my zero on a rock, and filled my tag a couple days later. Sold the new replacement.

The only other scopes I've broken were a Bausch & Lomb Bushnell that I broke when I crashed my horse up hunting (I say crashed because it was my fault, not his ) . And I broke a Leupy MK8 CQBSS at a 3 Gun match. I broke the turret throwing it into the dump box. Both companies repaired my scope promptly.

 

[The King]

I bought a Gen I PST back in the day. It broke on the first stage of my very first PRS match. The reticle canted about 40 degrees and you could wobble it.

Vortex replaced it promptly. But the replacement broke on day one of an Idaho elk hunt two months later. I rode out of camp, drove 4 hours back home, picked up my $75 Bushnell Sportview I had hunted with for 15 years. Drove back to elk camp, got my zero on a rock, and filled my tag a couple days later. Sold the new replacement.

The only other scopes I've broken were a Bausch & Lomb Bushnell that I broke when I crashed my horse up hunting (I say crashed because it was my fault, not his ) . And I broke a Leupy MK8 CQBSS at a 3 Gun match. I broke the turret throwing it into the dump box. Both companies repaired my scope promptly.

I had a PST Gen1 do that. Reticle blew loose. And the SH Special Edition IOR 3-18 did that too. And the SB Short Dot 1-8 when it was first out.

Back in the Land Before Time, I shot Leupold MKIV's on M21 type guns a lot. Woof, those things broke like candy up there on the tall ass M1A rails. It was the SCAR-17 of the day.

The original Burris XTR's lasted about 10 more rounds than the MKIV did it seemed.

 

[supercorndogs]

I had an XTR 4-16, and another 3-12 that broke like news. I had another 3-12 that never gave me any trouble.

I had trouble with a couple ERS zero stops getting bound up. One ERS and LRHS with debris internally, and an LRHS with a bent turret.

XTRII looked like GI Joe scope glass

TX5i, we all know about that debacle.

Cronus same thing. Tracking was off by 5%, I was told that was in spec for the Gen 1 Cronus.

XTRIII, 3-18 was internally fogged out of the box. 5-30 was fine.

Razor returned from updates tracking about 5% fast. I was told the erectors put in it were not compatible with some of the earlier scopes.

These cover about 15 years of shooting. Let me dig up the emails for you. Please hold your breathe while I find them.

@db2000 needs a little help on the definition of "most."

I do have this photo from unboxing my XTRIII. It looked almost like grease on the lens so I snapped a picture. It turned out to be fog and slowly cleared up.

 

[Forrest84]

I went back to S&B and nightforce so I don’t have to worry about broken scopes. Don’t get me wrong a lot of people I’ve competed with over the years ran Gen II razors and had no complaints. I’ve tried them but i luckily have a good job so I can skip the BS and run the good stuff and not worry about it.

 

[supercorndogs]

Everything breaks.

 

[Rob01]

I went back to S&B and nightforce so I don’t have to worry about broken scopes. Don’t get me wrong a lot of people I’ve competed with over the years ran Gen II razors and had no complaints. I’ve tried them but i luckily have a good job so I can skip the BS and run the good stuff and not worry about it.

Having had to send both of those back for repair with a turret issue and a zero stop lock up respectively, you are not guaranteed with anything.

 

[fdkay]

Vortex CS kicks ass!!
Well, they get lots of practice.

 

[chevy_man]

Yes. That’s the place I consider it most excellent in fact.

The image when viewing a TICO display is friggin flat and easy to get behind. Much better in person as well.

View attachment 7718985

I can attest to this. Got to play with one the other day and damn does it look good.

It's good enough I would put up with using the warranty, which I'm not a big fan of.

 

[alfmoonspace]

This thread is priceless. Vortex knows that when you put a sticker on the back of your clapped out 95 chevy, that you are privy to not having your scope crash and burn. EVERY vortex I have had has been back to them. UH1-GEN 2, battery issues. GEN II, wouldn’t hold zero. PST II, the worst lens coating job I have seen. On and on it goes.

Yes, my ZCO has been back to the factory because of debris on a internal lens. Yes, they were as fast as anyone to ship me back a cleaned up scope. It’s like we expect 4k scopes to be perfect. Guess what, nothing is perfect. Oh, I have had an AI sent back because of a headspace issue caused a barrel that was sold from factory.

Don’t think spending high dollars will be blessed by Zeus himself. That is a dream.

 

[FuhQ]

Well that’s some shitty luck. Every brand of scope, BNIB already broken. Hard to believe but whatever.

He hasn't dealt with Arken yet...

 

[FuhQ]

First NF I ever broke the parallax knob started doing some strange shit and then locked up. 8-32 NXS a long time ago. Mmmm...MLR reticle.

AI was the trigger.

My litany of broken shit is probably the 30 years I have been shooting long range combined with essentially an unlimited budget for buying shit. And I'm a scientist at heart so I like experimentation.

For example, this week its an Arken SH4 showing up....and a ZCO MPCT3 4-20. Haven't owned a ZCO or an Arken yet.

Having owned all these high-end scopes to compare them to, I'm interested to read your opinions on the Arken.

 

[alfmoonspace]

What‘s Arken? Is that a co-word for Biden?

 

[FuhQ]

What‘s Arken? Is that a co-word for Biden?

No, it's code word for your mom.

 

[FuhQ]

What‘s Arken? Is that a co-word for Biden?

I'm glad you can take a joke. It seems most folks on here can't.

 

[beetroot]

I always find these threads interesting.
Between a friend and I we have owned 10 Vortex scopes, mostly PST Gen 1 and 2s, only one of those has failed and that was one I got used and was broken when I received it, so could have been user error.

I don't really have a dog in this fight I've never had a scope fail on me and have had good results from Vortex so continue to use their scopes.

Maybe one day we will find out what the real return rates are on Vortex scopes and how many of those were actually user error vs manufacturering defects.

It always amazes me how some people have terrible luck with scope and others (like me) have never broken one.
Seems like some guys are cursed when it comes to optics.

 

[GrumpyOleFart]

I have 3 Vortex scopes, two Razor II and a HD.
All have performed flawlessly.

 

[st1650]

I always find these threads interesting.
Between a friend and I we have owned 10 Vortex scopes, mostly PST Gen 1 and 2s, only one of those has failed and that was one I got used and was broken when I received it, so could have been user error.

I don't really have a dog in this fight I've never had a scope fail on me and have had good results from Vortex so continue to use their scopes.

Maybe one day we will find out what the real return rates are on Vortex scopes and how many of those were actually user error vs manufacturering defects.

It always amazes me how some people have terrible luck with scope and others (like me) have never broken one.
Seems like some guys are cursed when it comes to optics.

I don’t have a dog in this fight but I’m glad to hear that you have Gen 1 PSTs that survived to this day. Because that’s certainly not my experience nor any of my shooting buddies.

 

[FuhQ]

I always find these threads interesting.
Between a friend and I we have owned 10 Vortex scopes, mostly PST Gen 1 and 2s, only one of those has failed and that was one I got used and was broken when I received it, so could have been user error.

I don't really have a dog in this fight I've never had a scope fail on me and have had good results from Vortex so continue to use their scopes.

Maybe one day we will find out what the real return rates are on Vortex scopes and how many of those were actually user error vs manufacturering defects.

It always amazes me how some people have terrible luck with scope and others (like me) have never broken one.
Seems like some guys are cursed when it comes to optics.

I get accused of "shilling" for Arken lately (because I bought one, and really like it, which is apparently an SH sin ), but I own about 15 different Vortex optics (various models and types)...And have starting about 10 years ago. I've only recently had one fail, and how it failed is beyond me, because that scope was the very first one I bought, and it has spent most of the last 10 years sitting in the gun safe in the air conditioned house. Weird shit.

Oh well, they're taking care of it, and sent an email today that they're replacing it (don't know with what yet, as they don't make that scope anymore), but we'll see.

 

[Nate60x]

Say you finally draw that sheep tag you’ve been applying for for 25 years, you taking a vortex rifle scope? I sure as hell wouldn’t.

 

[The King]

Say you finally draw that sheep tag you’ve been applying for for 25 years, you taking a vortex rifle scope? I sure as hell wouldn’t.

I would take a Razor or AMG to the hunt for sure.

 

[308pirate]

What scopes exactly?

 

[FuhQ]

Say you finally draw that sheep tag you’ve been applying for for 25 years, you taking a vortex rifle scope? I sure as hell wouldn’t.

We can't all afford a $3,000+ optic... Some of us have to use what we can afford. So, yeah. Most likely, unless I took my lightweight deer rig, which has a Kahles Helia KX 3.5-10x50 4D on it. No dialing turrets, which sucks, but I took it in a trade. So, can't complain.

 

[GrumpyOleFart]

Two months or so ago, one the guys had his new S&B gas out.
Still waiting for the return.

 

[Rob01]

Yup heaven forbid trying to get facts in a feeding frenzy. Lol

 

[Gohring65]

Say you finally draw that sheep tag you’ve been applying for for 25 years, you taking a vortex rifle scope? I sure as hell wouldn’t.

I would take two scoped rifles that have been proven, they very well could have vortex scopes on them. At least one of them anyway.

 

[supercorndogs]

The only time I went hunting with one rifle, I drove 2 hours waited for the it to start to get light, opened the soft case, realized in the dark I grabbed a green one instead of the blue one, and I had my 22-250 instead of my 308. So I had to pack up and drive home to get a rifle legal to shoot big game in my state.

And I was like...

 

[Birddog6424]

We toted around a back up camp gun for years. A 338 Win mag Winchester Pre 64. Iron sights with a metal butt plate.

I fired it.......... once...

 

[Gohring65]

I could help but to think about what rifle is take on the once in a lifetime sheep hunt. One of them most definitely would be my TC venture 30-06 with a old Japanese tasco 6-24. It probably wouldn’t be my primary weapon, but it has proven itself plenty enough to earn the ride.

 

[FuhQ]

Well, just got a call from Vortex CS... Since they do not make the Viper HS 6-24x50 anymore, they allowed me to upgrade to the new Strike Eagle 5-25x56 EBR-7C MRAD for a small fee (difference in MSRP). I'm not complaining. It's a current production scope, and is MUCH more useable (for my needs) than the old Viper HS was. The Viper HS spend 7 of the last 10 years pretty much sitting in the safe, and getting swapped from rifle to rifle, as I slowly upgraded to better optics for each gun. The Viper HS just kept moving further down the line. Can't wait till it comes in to give it a try. I'll probably end up putting it on my 6.5 Grendel DMR, and swap that SWFA SS scope onto my Ruger 10/22 so it has target turrets with plenty of elevation.

I'm very happy with my Vortex CS experience. I thought that was pretty cool of them to allow me to upgrade for a small fee. Some companies just won't do that, and they'll tell you, "Well, we're sending you a new direct replacement, you can always sell it when you get it back, and then upgrade to what you want..." Which, is 100% fair, but I was surprised that Vortex let me do that. Just another reason I'm glad I have plenty of their optics.

Not shilling, but facts are facts... A company is only as good as their warranty and CS behind their products. It can be the best product in the world, but it will eventually fail, or someone will get a lemon. And when that happens, if their CS or warranty sucks, you're not going to be too keen on continuing to use their products. Anyone who's ever experienced shitty CS can attest to that. I know I've experienced my share with quite a few companies, Weatherby being one of the ones that chapped my ass the worst. I refuse to EVER spend another red penny on anything that says Weatherby on it. Don't want to get into it, because I don't want to beat that dead horse.

 

[Gohring65]

Well, just got a call from Vortex CS... Since they do not make the Viper HS 6-24x50 anymore, they allowed me to upgrade to the new Strike Eagle 5-25x56 EBR-7C MRAD for a small fee (difference in MSRP). I'm not complaining. It's a current production scope, and is MUCH more useable (for my needs) than the old Viper HS was. The Viper HS spend 7 of the last 10 years pretty much sitting in the safe, and getting swapped from rifle to rifle, as I slowly upgraded to better optics for each gun. The Viper HS just kept moving further down the line. Can't wait till it comes in to give it a try. I'll probably end up putting it on my 6.5 Grendel DMR, and swap that SWFA SS scope onto my Ruger 10/22 so it has target turrets with plenty of elevation.

I'm very happy with my Vortex CS experience. I thought that was pretty cool of them to allow me to upgrade for a small fee. Some companies just won't do that, and they'll tell you, "Well, we're sending you a new direct replacement, you can always sell it when you get it back, and then upgrade to what you want..." Which, is 100% fair, but I was surprised that Vortex let me do that. Just another reason I'm glad I have plenty of their optics.

Not shilling, but facts are facts... A company is only as good as their warranty and CS behind their products. It can be the best product in the world, but it will eventually fail, or someone will get a lemon. And when that happens, if their CS or warranty sucks, you're not going to be too keen on continuing to use their products. Anyone who's ever experienced shitty CS can attest to that. I know I've experienced my share with quite a few companies, Weatherby being one of the ones that chapped my ass the worst. I refuse to EVER spend another red penny on anything that says Weatherby on it. Don't want to get into it, because I don't want to beat that dead horse.

I like my strike eagle so far.

 

[FuhQ]

I like my strike eagle so far.

I'm excited. I've heard lots of good things about the SE 5-25x56.

I'm probably going to get flamed for this, but I honestly can't wait to compare it to my Arken SH4 6-24x50 and my Viper HST 6-24x50 scopes all side-by-side (at the same magnifications). I'll try to take pics through them all in the same day, so I can do a fair unbiased honest comparison of the glass. I can't guarantee how well my iPhone will do, but hopefully it will pan-out.

The SE's feature set is also pretty similar to the Arken SH4 if you compare specs. The Arken is like 32.8 MILS, the SE is 31 MILS of elevation. Both have 34mm tubes. Both are FFP. Both have HD glass. And the EBR-7C is also a Horus-styled reticle like the Arken VPR. I think it will be a good side-by-side, honestly.

 

[fdkay]

I'm excited. I've heard lots of good things about the SE 5-25x56.

I'm probably going to get flamed for this, but I honestly can't wait to compare it to my Arken SH4 6-24x50 and my Viper HST 6-24x50 scopes all side-by-side (at the same magnifications). I'll try to take pics through them all in the same day, so I can do a fair unbiased honest comparison of the glass. I can't guarantee how well my iPhone will do, but hopefully it will pan-out.

The SE's feature set is also pretty similar to the Arken SH4 if you compare specs. The Arken is like 32.8 MILS, the SE is 31 MILS of elevation. Both have 34mm tubes. Both are FFP. Both have HD glass. And the EBR-7C is also a Horus-styled reticle like the Arken VPR. I think it will be a good side-by-side, honestly.

Not to piss on your parade, but when you actually use the zero stop on the SE, you lose LOTS of elevation.

 

[Rob01]

You still have 18 mils with the SE and zero stop. I just run mine on a 40 moa base so no need for the stop.

 

[Gohring65]

You still have 18 mils with the SE and zero stop. I just run mine on a 40 moa base so no need for the stop.

I agree, I had another scope that was set up that way, it was a Crimson trace series 5. It had 19.5 mils with zero stop installed and it was on a 20 moa rail.
I had 19.5 mils of usable elevation.
Usable elevation, I had enough to dial my lapua to a mile with no hold over.