Vudoo V-22S Single Shot BR/F-Class Action

[RAVAGE88]

Mike, I need the size of the barrel 1" back from the muzzle to properly order the tuner.

Thanks in advance.

Nominal diameter of what we’re using is .900”, but there’s a slight variation barrel-to-barrel. The Mueller on my rifle is .872” and there’s a .0005 slip fit, tuner to muzzle. So, when you order your tuner, you can use the .900” diameter, but it’s best to order it undersized and have it properly fit to your barrel.

MB

 

[RAVAGE88]

MB , yes Sightron S!!! 10/50 my scope Of choice.. And running it at 50 pwr.
I like dressing my 52C with it , when I practice shooting cards.
great job, what did you think of shooting a card with your new V22S

That's Ivan's scope but I really liked how the reticle bracketed the targets. The center dot in the reticle obscured the dot on the target. but as long as the target was perfected bracketed, it was good to go.

MB

 

[T_Hammer]

My hope is the V22S on order will match my 52C with a Bipod and rear bag.

 

[flatland1]

After reading a bunch of favorable reviews, I ordered in a Sightron SIII 45x45 with 1/10 MOA dot and 1/10 MOA clicks. Will put it on the V-22S when I get an action & get it set up to shoot. Never had a fixed power scope with more than 36x, so am hoping this one works well for me. If not, I can see a SIII or SVSSED 10-50x60 in my future....

 

[T_Hammer]

FL1.. I came across a real deal on a fixed 40x March, sweet glass. Only problem is in sighting it in at 50 yds.
Bore sighting only goes so far with old eyes.
I move my scope around to much , a lot of money to sit and wait it turn at the range , more than once I have people comment on the cost of the glass compare to the rifle, my answer always is it doesn’t need to stay on that build.
Over time I have been able to keep some on builds.

Now the question for the group is ..
Does my new V22S get the March or Sightron .

 

[Sgeorge]

I went with the March 10-60X. Crosshair reticle. You can’t hit what you can’t see. Lol

 

[T_Hammer]

Ok.
1 for the March
( SG ) I will PM my wives email address to tell her it’s ok to buy the other March.. Lol

flies at 50 yds Range challenge

 

[RAVAGE88]

Landy did such an awesome job of breaking down the above target that I needed to share it here.

"It's a cardinal sin to let "accuracy" muddy the waters and ruin any attempt at making an analysis of the "precision" of a rifle. After finding the level of "precision", it's then the responsibility of the shooter to center his shots on the target (Accuracy).

If you look at the chart above in Ivan's post, you'll notice it lists an "Offset Horizontal" of -0.083" and "Offset Vertical" of 0.064" for the virtual composite group of 25 shots. This offset is simply the difference between the mathematical center of the 25 shot distribution and the exact center of the virtual bull.
In terms of clicks on a scope with 1/8 inch or MOA adjustments at 100 yds, we would need to dial in 1.3 Clicks right and almost exactly 1 click down to produce "accuracy".

The level of "accuracy" required in RFBR means your scope can't possibly be dialed in perfectly because the adjustments are too coarse. It also goes without saying that it takes an incredible shooter with a great rifle to take advantage of the minute hold offs to achieve maximum "accuracy".

As regards the "precision" of the rifle for the target it shot, it's very good to excellent because it meets my primary minimum benchmark of a 0.090" Mean Radius and barely misses my benchmark for 5-shot group avg's of .220". My personal benchmark or goals for "precision" are higher, but I've only met them with maybe two rifles and tens of thousands of rounds.
There are a great number of other statistical metrics I have personal benchmarks for, but probably beyond the scope of this thread and not really needed because Mean Radius and 5-shot grp sizes have a very high statistical correlation to precision.

Bear in mind also, this is a single target and subsequent targets can and will vary sometimes greatly. It will take many more targets to determine the true level of "precision" and allow you to be able to predict potential scores on target.

All that being said, this is a great target and shows a lot of potential.

Landy"

Thanks again Landy,
MB

 

[rick137]

For the Bullet Pro 150 Target the maximum score of 150 requires a bullet hole that encompasses the center dot. Whether the dot has to be removed or just within the zone between the actual hole and virgin paper I do not know. No matter, lets just say the maximum distance of the center of the bullet from the center dot must be 0.110" for a score of 150. Then for a perfect score the center of every bullet hole must lie in a disk centered on the dot and having a diameter of 0.220". Anything with greater accuracy, remembering the current definition of accuracy includes both precision and centering, is irrelevant in terms of scoring with this target.

 

[RAVAGE88]

For the Bullet Pro 150 Target the maximum score of 150 requires a bullet hole that encompasses the center dot. Whether the dot has to be removed or just within the zone between the actual hole and virgin paper I do not know. No matter, lets just say the maximum distance of the center of the bullet from the center dot must be 0.110" for a score of 150. Then for a perfect score the center of every bullet hole must lie in a disk centered on the dot and having a diameter of 0.220". Anything with greater accuracy, remembering the current definition of accuracy includes both precision and centering, is irrelevant in terms of scoring with this target.

I really enjoy these kinds of posts.

MB

 

[Tomiboy]

I guess that answers where Mike got his minimum acceptable group size of .220" from!

 

[Ncbrshooter]

I guess that answers where Mike got his minimum acceptable group size of .220" from!

Lol that's not mike describing that. It was Landy hes the numbers and data guy.

 

[T_Hammer]

Mike, “ The first few rifles are built in St. George “ where is the new shop going to be ?

 

[RAVAGE88]

Mike, “ The first few rifles are built in St. George “ where is the new shop going to be ?

The R&D Lab is in CT, production facility in UT....new shop?

MB

 

[Candoo]

Mike may not like me doing this, But never under estimate the power of pray. Everyone PLEASE pray for Mike's family, Colton had a spill on his bike that required some surgery. please respect Mike's privacy right now, I'm sure he will keep us updated. So far everything has went well.

Ivanhoe

 

[Sgeorge]

Prayers going out to Colton

 

[Travelor]

Prayer for Colton made.

 

[10ring1]

Thinking of you and your family!

 

[T_Hammer]

Prays for Colton and family

 

[Sagittarius]

Prayers sent for Colton and his family.
Hope he recovers quickly.

 

[Rimfireshooter99]

Prayers for Colton and family! Hope for a speedy recovery!

 

[RAVAGE88]

Thank You Guys, very much appreciated. The day started with a simple bike ride and the weather was perfect. It turned quickly with a compound fracture of the ulna; the bone came through the top of his arm and struck quite a gusher. Stabilized him on the scene and got him to the ER. After CT scans and X-rays, he was transferred to the nearby children's hospital where he required emergency surgery late last night. All is better now, he's scraped up, banged up and looks like he got in a fight with the wrong side of a lawn mower, but he's feeling much better today.

Thanks again, I really appreciate this community and especially, friends like Ivan.

MB

 

[jbell]

Absolutely will be in my thoughts and prayers, seedy recovery Colton!

 

[10ring1]

Thank You Guys, very much appreciated. The day started with a simple bike ride and the weather was perfect. It turned quickly with a compound fracture of the ulna; the bone came through the top of his arm and struck quite a gusher. Stabilized him on the scene and got him to the ER. After CT scans and X-rays, he was transferred to the nearby children's hospital where he required emergency surgery late last night. All is better now, he's scraped up, banged up and looks like he got in a fight with the wrong side of a lawn mower, but he's feeling much better today.

Thanks again, I really appreciate this community and especially, friends like Ivan.

MB

Great news! I'm sure he is in great hands and is well taken care of. I can speak for most of us when I say we've been there one way or another, personally or with family. Best wishes..

 

[Woodoo]

Hoping for a speedy recovery. Look forward to seeing him on the firing line soon!!!!

 

[AMTGMC]

Prayers for Colton and a full recovery.

 

[flatland1]

Best Wishes for Colton & the rest of you. Pretty stressful situation; wish you'd all have been able to relax & enjoy the riding & scenery instead...

 

[ccollier]

Prayers for Colton and family! Hope for a speedy recovery!

 

[RAVAGE88]

Thanks again, Guys. He's doing great and we'll be out in the shop for a little while today because he wants to work on a H-D Evo engine we're building up for my boys Summer project. Today is the top end....new pistons in freshly bored cylinders and finely re-worked heads with CNC porting and re-worked valves/springs for a higher lift cam. We're skipping over the cam case right now because I loaned out my bearing tools and can't remember who has them; the new tools I ordered show up later in the week....so, the new cam, etc., will go in sometime next week.

MB

 

[JerryP]

Best wishes for Colton and the rest of the family.

 

[AUMan]

Here is hoping that Master Colton mends quickly AND learns a lesson that may be needed
when and if he is riding that HD Evo that he is building.

 

[JerryP]

Anyone get an update on their order?

 

[DownhillFromHere]

Thanks again, Guys. He's doing great and we'll be out in the shop for a little while today because he wants to work on a H-D Evo engine we're building up for my boys Summer project. Today is the top end....new pistons in freshly bored cylinders and finely re-worked heads with CNC porting and re-worked valves/springs for a higher lift cam. We're skipping over the cam case right now because I loaned out my bearing tools and can't remember who has them; the new tools I ordered show up later in the week....so, the new cam, etc., will go in sometime next week.

MB

Wow, that's great news that he was up&at'em so quickly. That's the amazing thing about kids, how fast they heal.

 

[ccollier]

Anyone get an update on their order?

I haven't yet. Fingers crossed I will get a call soon!

 

[AUMan]

I have NOT heard anything, and thought that I would have by now!
Still waiting, BUT know they want to get them out , so have faith that
the parts they need will come in soon.

 

[T_Hammer]

MB , can you help with any info or details on what parts you are waiting on . Like most I just want to be keep up to date.

 

[Rimfireshooter99]

Congratulations to Ivan for his third place finish in the PSL match in St. Louis! Nicely done!

 

[marks_a18138]

I am showing Ivan Wells some Team Vudoo Love!
Ivan Wells got some cool awards today at the ARA Nationals. I maybe wrong but I don't think anyone has won the A-line and Agg-line in the same year....His 2019 A-line and Agg line outdoor championship trophies and His Kentucky National championship trophy. Plus his framed 2500 from Piney Hill jan 2020. Plus he showed off Vudoo products this weekend..Oh man I almost forgot his 3rd Place finish in PSL and nice check and only shooting 1 match in 2020 before the PSL shoot.

 

[Woodoo]

Ivan, congratulations on your accomplishments. Well done!!!!

 

[JG26_Irish]

Hey JG, glad you dropped in here and I appreciate your feedback on a few of the features. I’ve been giving some thought to the factory class and it has me working on a few things that led to something that may contribute to what you’re asking. I can speak more freely about it after the patent docs are squared away but I have reason to believe we can get into factory class without sacrificing performance.

Let’s stay in touch and I’ll keep you posted....

MB

Mike, we met at the inaugural Bullet Pro 150 match in Somerset, KY a few weeks ago. I was the old fart shooting the antique Win 52 w/the Fecker 10x on it. I recently had some decent success with my old Remington 540XR in ARA at the Nationals but expect it to be banned from competition for next year in ARA Factory Class because it is not a repeater. Also, would not be surprised to see ARA require that all "Factory Class" rifles be repeaters. I am now shopping for next year's rifle. Really want it to say VuDoo on the side. I have some ideas on how we can drive it down to the $999 price point. Look at what Remington did with the 540/541 series. Keep it fitting the Rem 700 stocks and triggers so we can use any. Maybe a cheap Boyds laminate stock like the thumbhole light weight. We can replace the triggers on factory class so, maybe go cheap on the trigger and let each shooter pick his own? If we can make the V22 action work that is great, if not, how about a VuDoo Club Sport Rifle that clones the 541 action? All those old patents are expired by now. That six lug action had the fastest lock time in the world when it was new. Put all the value in the action and the bbl. Just trying to think outside the box.

Irish

 

[JG26_Irish]

Absolutely will be in my thoughts and prayers, seedy recovery Colton!

Glad to hear that Colton is on the mend and doing OK. He is quite the little marksman and we hope he is back in action soon.

 

[JG26_Irish]

I made the 900 mile trip from Deep East Texas to Kentucky last week to participate in what I think of as the "event" ... not only a competitive match but the introduction of both Vudoo's V22-S action and IvanHoe's custom package, i.e., rifle based on the V-22S, scope and rest. The event was attended by the title sponsors and Lapua provided ammo to the winners in addition to a really nice plaque.

First, the venue ... Kentucky, especially from Bowling Green to Somerset is spectacular. The range was about thirty minutes from Somerset and the last five miles were the most beautiful part of my drive. Switchbacks and elevation changes made it more like a road racing track not well suited for an F-150. Slow it down and enjoy the scenery ... keep your foot close to the break and remember never to go into one of those turns hot!!!

The Buck Creek Range was well thought out and had all the trappings necessary to put on a quality match. Benches were limited to twelve which was perfect for the 33 shooters who participated ... three relays and four cards.

Vudoo design engineer Mike Bush had a couple of V-22S actions that we could handle and he was often seen giving tours of the action, specifically the bolt and the innovations it contains. You can disassemble the bolt without tools. The V-22S will be shipped with multiple firing pin springs that allow a shooter to tune ignition to his liking. In addition to firing pin spring options, tension on the spring can be fine tuned by compressing the spring to further tune the action to achieve optimum group size, X-count or P.A.R. score. Pretty neat and consistent how a lot of the top-tier shooters are modifying their actions - but a lot easier (I think).

A full blown Vudoo V-22S action-based IvanHoe Shooting Equipment build with his beautiful one-piece rest was on display. It's truly a work of art and would make a beautiful display in an enthusiasts gun room. Ivan's stock has a very wide butt stock bottom end that rides in the rear of the rest. The display he was using was highly polished and would be the envy of any Harley rider's wet dream ... Bling, Bling, Bling. The wood in the stock was laminated and beautiful. There's pictures on the Hide and Rimfire Accuracy. It's truly amazing and was ready to shoot ... there's a bit of data posted on the forums and it would have been nice to see what Ivan could do with the rifle at the bench. He was a good host and a relentless match director so the rifle set idle. Maybe next time!!!

The Inaugural Match was professionally managed (as you might expect) and was fraught with unpredictable (but not high) winds and occasional rain showers that lasted no more the the length of a relay. Changing range conditions can easily be verified by looking at the scores - even the best shooters stumbled at bit on cards - I suspect these stumbles were caused by shifting range conditions ... all in a day's competition.

The support staff were superb ... they made all of us feel comfortable, put on a great meal, scored targets accurately and keep us safe from range errors. It's yet to be seen if the event ends up resulting in any spread of the plague - I sure hope not!!!

I can only speak for myself but I had a really good time ... I always enjoy the solitude of a cross country drive, I got to meet a lot of great people, shoot with guys whose skill level was far above mine - watch out for me next time cause I'm coming after you. I got to see the new product from Vudoo/Ivan and I had a lot to think about on my drive home.

I did pick up a couple packs of targets and have invited my gun club RFBR competitors to a "BP-150 Target and Sanction Evaluation" this weekend at our range in Lufkin (Angelina Rifle and Pistol Club). We'll be shooting on August 8, Saturday, beginning between 8 and 9am. Any shooters reading this post are welcome to saddle-up and join us. We've got a quorum committed to shooting already and will make this a fun shoot - but we will be scoring like competitors always do. Our primary mission is to evaluate the BP-150 as a potential sanctioning body for our 2021 season.

Norm Flynn

Norm, it was great to meet you at the event and to see the V22S in person... Irish

 

[10ring1]

MReally want it to say VuDoo on the side. I have some ideas on how we can drive it down to the $999 price point.

U ain't even getting started on a rifle for that price

 

[JG26_Irish]

U ain't even getting started on a rifle for that price

10ring, perhaps you are correct. It does not hurt to try. The ARA Factory Class rules are clear and unless the ARA choose to raise the price ceiling for next year, we are limited to new factory rifles under $1000 or a list of some older factory rifles of similar value. I like shooting American Iron, I ride a Harley Davidson and that is in part why I chose the Remington for 2020. CZ and Tikka are currently dominating with the lone exception of my old clapped out Remington. Just asking if it is possible. I know a thing or two about engineering systems for reduced cost manufacturing while maintaining quality. Low cost does not have to sacrifice quality. I have taken products that cost $250/unit and driven them down to $25/unit while using the same materials and the same features and quality in other industry all while maintaining 100% USA content all while competing head to head with the Chinese, Japanese and Europeans who are all brilliant manufacturers and beating them. To get a VuDoo like rifle at half or less the current price is a challenge but one that I would eagerly help Mike B and company achieve. It takes aggressive, out of the box thinking and may still require cutting corners in some places. It would be a shame for one of the Nation's premier BR competitions to have zero competitive American rifles in the events. I just don't want to have to shoot a Henry Golden Boy in BR matches

Just think, VuDoo has built a reputation for building a factory rifle with custom match rifle "Precision" for a premium price that is below or competitive with a custom rifle price. I recently told Mike that he is building today the modern equivalent of the Winchester model 52. But such elite rifles always had a limited market. Keep in mind that with 22lr even a perfectly precise rifle is handicapped by the level of available precision in our ammo. So, it is very very difficult to consistently achieve perfect accuracy no matter how good the rifle.

Now to capitalize on that success, just like Winchester and Remington did, a more modest priced value option is a logical next step. The ARA Factory matches are a perfect showcase for such a product but they have artificially set the price in advance so, we must abide by it. If the price limit did not exist, I would have shot my Winchester 52 or a VuDoo V22 in this year's season. But, today neither is legal for the Factory Class in ARA. Mike has already dove into the ARA (and other BR sanctioned) unlimited benchrest market with his V22S action and that market is likely more limited than a factory class legal product would be. We just want to support what he is doing at our level in the sport.

Irish

 

[Sgeorge]

Wish you the best of luck with that venture

 

[flatland1]

Irish -
I've owned a Rem 541T since 1993; when I bought it NIB, I was very pleased with the accuracy I got out of it with - of all things - Win Super-X hi vel HP ammo. The downside was not being able to adjust the trigger down to the 1-1.5lb range (like is easily done with a CZ457), and what I consider to be sorry-assed magazines. None of the three factory mags I own will feed reliably, so I purchased a couple of very fine SS 5rd custom mags from John Reed (read about his mags on AccurateShooter.com). So, if someone like Mike Bush was interested in engineering a similar action, with a better, more easily adjusted trigger, I'd be in line to buy one. I've spent a lot of time & $$$ on building repeaters on various actions over the past four years, using Bartlein, Benchmark, Krieger, Lilja, & Shilen bbls, from a couple of CMP 40Xs to CZ457s Stiller 2500XR to V-22s and most recently a Zermatt RimX - so the chance to build a rifle like what you're proposing would be a very interesting & attractive prospect.

 

[Hozzie]

I think most of you are missing the forest due to the trees on the entire purpose of the ARA factory class. The intent of the class is to remove the "arms race" so to speak. The price wasn't set artificially or without some thought. Certainly we can agree that it wasn't rolled out as smoothly as it could have been, but keep in mind the entire reason for it is to introduce NEW shooters to the sport, not to get a bunch of existing shooters to try to outmaneuver one another.

I understand there will be some changes coming for next year. They haven't been decided and I have no idea when they will be announced, but you can bet that it isn't going to increase the base cost of the rifle. A Vudoo of any flavor is never going to fit into an ARA factory class. If you are willing to spend on a Vudoo, then you belong in the Unlimited class anyway. BP 150 essentially made their Factory Hot Rod class for the Vudoo, but it has its issues as well as anyone with a CZ or Tikka is going to get smoked in it as well. The two classes simply have different intentions. Doesn't make one right or wrong, just the intent is different.

On a second note, reducing the sales price of a product isn't necessarily in the best interest of a company, even if it can be produced cheaper. They don't have a problem selling their actions as is, why would they want to reduce the cost and take any shortcuts. They built their reputation on quality. Anything that could reduce that would be a mistake in my opinion. Purchases are emotional processes. Complete logic rarely directs a decision. A salesmen once gave me a great example. You can buy a Rolex for 1000's of dollars which tells time ok and looks nice, etc, etc. Or you can buy a Timex for $30 which will sync to some time server and keep itself within some very small variance of time for years. If you want to have the best watch to tell Time, the Timex is an easy decision. However, thousands of people buy Rolex's every year.

 

[10ring1]

Agreed completely. Took the words out of my next statement to a T with that second paragraph Hozzie.

 

[Candoo]

Jamie, I'm getting a little tired of you saying things that just are not TRUE at all. You and I have never spoken about Bullet PRO 150. That statement you made about BP150 Factory Hot Rod class being made for Vudoo Gun Works guns is a lie. I designed this target over three years ago, The Factory Hot Rod class came about for people like George Akins, People with 40Xs, model 52s and 54 annies. I saw a big void in rimfire Benchrest that needed to be filled, so that's how it came about. The fact that Vudoo Gun Works makes factory target rifles allows them to fit it. Stop talking about something you know nothing about. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that you and you're group on RA is trying to do everything they can to try to suppress Bullet PRO 150. The rule will state that there has to be at least 1000 Factory production rifles made each production year. Guess what if Jerry Stiller wants to produce a 1000 or more rifles a year his brand will be legal.

Ivanhoe

 

[Hozzie]

Ivan, I realize you designed the game and you can certainly state what your intention was and is. I will state what many of us see of it and hopefully you can clarify. We can agree to disagree, that's ok. At first it was named factory class, but the rules make it pretty clear that it is anything but factory to most. Goes back to my statement above about intent. I don't doubt you had a vision for that class as you outline, but to the normal person trying to make sense of it it's hard to see any factory left in it. I don't think most of us look at keeping just an action and replacing the rest of a gun as factory.

The name was changed to Factory Hot Rod. Definitely more appropriate, but still a bit loose with the factory term in my view (I realize my opinion doesn't matter in this and that's ok, just giving an opinion).

Like was said above, the intention of ARA factory was for new shooters. I can also fully understand that you are in a partnership with Vudoo and it would only make sense to try and take full advantage of that. I personally think both factory classes fall a bit short for those guys in the middle with true Factory 40x's, 52's, etc. Take a V22S action and do most of what you would to a custom rifle, but shoot it off of a two piece rest and it is now a factory hod rod? I don't see the real difference. It's still a custom shooting against a factory gun for me. If that is the case, why simply not have a 1 piece rest and two piece rest division? It's an honest question. I know you think I am trying to bust your balls on it, but that is not the case. I have spoken out against the ARA factory class as well as I think it fell short, but again it's not up to me.

Based on your last statement does that mean that all Factory Hot Rods would have to produce 1000 rifles per year, or just 1000 total. A Suhl hasn't been produced in 30 years, so I guess it falls under a category of 1000 actions produced? Is that the real standard? I don't have any idea if Jerry has produced a 1000 actions total, but if that is the standard, then it would seem that should be ok if he has. Or are you saying that any Factory Hot Rod must use the original barrel provided by the manufacturer? It appears from the rules it can use essentially any other parts, so why would one be able to use a V22S and not a 2500X. I think that is a fair question. If you are going to limit it to only barrels put on by the manufacturer, then ok that may make more sense, but Jerry has done that as well. Based on the rules posted, that doesn't appear to be the case though.

As you can see we could take this down to many details and clarification. Again I know you think I am trying to bust your balls about this, but I am simply wanting to clarify exact details. I may have a gun I can shoot in Factory Hot Rod if I want (well I do have a V22 Repeater so I could, but that is not the one I was thinking of), but I may also not depending on details. I suspect I am not the only one wanting to know more. The perception, whether true or not, is that the Factory Hot Rod class is there in some form to push the Vudoo's. Again, not an issue for me, but I feel it is only fair to explain exactly why the others wouldn't be included. I know Mike mentioned that RimX would be allowed in it. They don't produce complete rifles that I am aware of and I am not sure they will produce 1000 this year.

At the end of the day, whether one picks a V22S, 2500X, or RimX, I don't see the difference if they can essentially build it completely custom and shoot off of a 2 piece rest and only 1 or 2 of them are legal.

There is simply a lot of unclear details for me and I think many others. Just trying to get some clarification.

I would hope you know me well enough to realize I don't have an agenda against you or anyone else or for anyone else. You may not believe that but it's the truth.

Jamie