Vudoo V-22S Single Shot BR/F-Class Action

#601
Tim, I have to ask who the Multi time national/world champion shooter was that came on here giving BR advise?
The only guy that I have seen with any creds is Ivan Wells! I mean, I will most likely listen to the 2018 and 2019 National points champion who holds all but 1 of the ARA records, yes I stalked him on the ARA website. Tim, you need to understand how big our world of positional 22lr is before telling me that the world revolves around BR. I am really excited that I am seeing guys from my world going over and trying a new discipline like BR. Could some of these guys become national champions someday, maybe! But, the one thing I have seen since starting to shoot BR in Oct is a world that is very monkey see monkey do! The world of NRL22 and PRS is not like that at all and I think guys like Ivan Wells are breaking out of the BR box and pushing forward to save something he loves! The reason "who the hell type responses" happens over here,is everyone on this big forum see's BR as a blip on the radar!
Tim, just embrace the fact that for the first time an American company is truly making a BR factory rifle that with the right ammo will enable a new shooter to go try BR and not get smoked at a local shoot. I am basing this off the fact that I have shot 1966 agg's in an ARA match with an 18" Vudoo off a bipod and a bag. Not a good combo for the BR game! I compared my scores while I know are not that high to other clubs in my state and my scores would have been middle of the pack and I am fine for it being my first time. See I am the type of person that knows I need to go back home and ammo test and find the lot of ammo that works for my rifle then get a one piece rest or nice 2 piece rest. I also understand that I might need a different rifle but I am not going to wait for a true custom and the V22S is going to fill that spot. Down the road, if I feel that I want to pursue the highest level of BR I have a great foundation to build a custom rifle on.
So Tim, try a softer approach over here and don't get so aggressive when trying to explain things because some of the guys on here are at the top of their discipline! Also try telling some of the guys about your BR shooting IR50/50, there is a lot of guys on here shooting rimfire in the upper Northeast part of the US that I am sure they have never seen nor heard of IR 50/50.
 
#602
Now returning back the V22S thread to where it should be... Guy's that are going to be using V22S for both BR and Smallbore F-class what stocks are you going with and why? I am building my V22S on an stripped MPA chassis with the MPA slider plate, my wife's V22S is being placed in a bad ass Kestros BR stock for both.
 
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#603

Hi Mark,

Nice post by the way. Went with a McMillan Kestros (special order on the color so definitely will have a longer wait), because I wanted the adjustability. Had considered the Edge but after speaking with the folks at Vudoo settled on the Kestros which I’m sure I will be very pleased with.

Other components: Shilen 24” R0 Contour barrel and Flavio Fare trigger. Already have a March X Tactical 8-80x56 3/32 Reticle in hand, (need to decide on rings) and a SEB NEO SE rest on order. Will also likely be adding a tuner (need to decide on that as well, leaning towards PDT). Hopefully will all come together early next year!

In the meantime, having a lot of fun with my V22 repeater in the Cadex Chassis! Which, for what it's worth likes Lapua Center-X, loves RWS Special Match ☺
 
#606
Man you can't go wrong with your setup! I have the SEB Neo and it will also be badass for the Bullet Pro Factory Hotrod class! My setup for F-class right now....Love the SEB..It will also be nice to stop changing glass and removing the slider to shoot our 22PRS and NRL22 matches...That poor old rifle can go back to positional duty.
 
#608
Candoo, will you have any Bullet Pro matches before the cold sets in closer to Wisconsin? I had a great time and would like to shoot another match, but don't want to drive another 8 hours to get there. Call me lazy...:)

Appreciate if you have any info yet on additional matches.

Best regards!
 
#610
All jocularity aside, I really would like to see the Hotel Sierra benchresters shoot the 6 x 5 Challenge with full custom BR rifles, tuners, one piece rests mated to the stock, picked and sorted ammunition and a full suite of wind flags. Could they consistently shoot 0.0XX MOA averages, and perhaps frequent 0.05X best group MOAs, in some or all wind conditions? Put shortly, could the benchresters set the benchmark for precision? If so would set the bar for non-benchresters.
 
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#613

Full disclosure, I am the Admin (not that it means anything really other than I know the challenges of dealing with people on forums) on Rimfire Accuracy along with Jerry and I started into the BR world as an outsider and had many of the same perceptions as many others have expressed here when I started.

While I understand your viewpoint, I think there are also a lot of assumptions being made that aren't necessarily correct. Let me first say that I am not responding to argue, but hopefully put a bit of perspective on this whole back and forth between some people on both sides of the aisle so to speak. What I think is important for everyone to take into consideration is that these forums are for the most part like any other social media platform. Approximately 2 percent of the population is active on social media and within that 2 percent, there are about .5 percent who are actively posting, making big statements and in general are the fringe of both sides of any argument. While the shooting world and therefore the forums consist of a much smaller number of overall people, I am comfortable stating that we are probably still looking at less than .5 percent of shooters in any discipline are active and posting on forums regularly.

As with any social media platform and just life in general, there are always three sides to every story. And just like in real life, there are people and personalities that we gravitate towards and away from. In general, we tend to like the people that agree with us and we dislike the people that disagree with us. The real challenge is finding the people that we disagree with that we think enough of to actually listen to understand and learn a different perspective from without immediately dismissing it as they are with us or against us.

I say all of this to make the point that for the most part, what you see, read, and feel on the forums has very little in common with the community as a whole. I am confident that outside of these forums, any one of us could and should go to a shoot for one of the other disciplines and I would bet a lot of money you will walk away saying to yourself "that was fun and a good group of people to boot". Sure, there may be a couple of guys you didn't click with, but where in life do you go that you hit it off with everyone. Personalities are involved in all of these things.

I am not dismissing the way in which some people respond to others on all forums. It isn't necessary but is an unfortunate side effect of social media that just let's people use the cloak of the internet to do and act in ways that they wouldn't do in person.

Short message if you just jumped to the end. Don't let a forum make you think that any of these groups are truly represented by a few people on a few forums.

P.S. Most would argue that the 40x was the first factory gun that can and does compete with customs at a fairly high level. They have been used for a long time in BR. They may not win all of the time, but a good one in the right hands can be hard to beat.
 
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#614
P:

My hypothesis is that while the Lapua Test Center, and the Eley as well, are probably excellent in determining the relative accuracy/precision for different lots of ammunition in a rifle, the support system used does not produce the optimal accuracy/precision. Could be wrong.
 
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#615

I would say this is a fair statement. I would tend to look at it a bit like electricity and potential energy. At the testing centers you are trying to determine the best potential. Putting that potential to good use is another matter.

Another aspect often overlooked is "is your rifle in tune when you test it?" If you have a new rifle and have done no tuning, I would argue that sending them to a testing center is iffy at best. Now, I know when I had my first gun built through Killough's, they also did some testing with the tuner to try and find the best tune before testing ammo. I am not sure they will all do that and if they will do it for guns they don't help build.

Secondarily, the even harder part for someone new is having a known excellent lot of ammo to start tuning with. A mediocre ammo lot at the end of the day is going to give you a mediocre tune. If you simply test at that mediocre tune, then you may not find the actual best lot of ammo. It's a bit of the chicken and egg situation.

There are some who use a set process for barrel length and then starting tune on a tuner, but this usually comes with years of experience. It's hard for new shooters to do all of this well at the beginning and have great results without some decent help.
 
#616
rick137, I agree. Ive been to the Arizona test center half a dozen times and while it's a good way to narrow down the lots that work with your gun it doesn't represent the very best the whole system is capable of. This is especially true when it's 95 degrees during the test in AZ and you shoot in the Pacific NW where it's usually 60 degrees and raining.
As for Vudoo BR rifles, I hope they sell a s%^tload of them and bring more shooters in. While all the speculation is entertaining, until they get out and start getting shot in actual matches in the same conditions who knows.

Dennis
 
#619
Orden:

What do you mean 60 degrees and raining? Yes, often in Winter but in Summer, like today, many days have a low of 55 and high of 75, no humidity, calm winds. Would be superb for shooting except for Covid-19. To paraphrase a saying about pilots, "There are old shooters and there are bold shooters, but there are no old, bold shooters."

Rick
 
#620
As previously mentioned, the Lapua test center results don’t take into account the entire system.

I also would be interested to see the performance of a top BR rifle in the hands of a top BR shooter on the 6X5 thread at 50Y and 100Y. The BR guys know how to precisely measure groups, but for the 6X5 thread, I’d be happy if they subtract 0.223” from the E to E measurement like most people do (myself included) on the 6X5 thread.
 
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#621
Kevin1, typically BR shooters are not shooting groups, other than maybe to do some ammo testing. On your statement above, don't you mean measure edge to edge, then subtract 0.223 (width of a bullet)? Subtracting .223 from a center to center measurement would result in a smaller group size than was shot?

Also, something to think about, try taking an ARA, PSL or BulletPro-150 target and have some of the 6x5 non-BR shooters see how they score. There is a reason you don't see non-BR rifles/shooters winning ARA and PSL matches. The thought process works both ways.

Just a suggestion... Take care...
 
#623
Because of what I have been learning shooting BR poorly for the last 8 months, ammo testing will be my life as soon as I get the V22S! My vudoo right now groups awesome with the Midas I use but shooting a card shows you the shortcomings of that lot of ammo..
 
#624
Good afternoon Mike; What Chamber are you all machining into your Vudoo Single Shot Barrels? Will it be your Ravage Chamber designed for the Lapua bullet shape? Thank you.
Hope you have a great time at the match this coming week. 4Certain
 
#625

No sir, not the 22LR RAVAGE, but the parent chamber to the 22LR RAVAGE, the Win 52D chamber. I've always been fascinated by this chamber, which is why I based my own on it. Essentially, I get the same performance out of the 22LR RAVAGE without any concerns of needing to extract/eject loaded rounds. However, there are a few added benefits of the 52D as a single shot chamber.

MB
 
#626
Thank you, Mike. I appreciate your answer. I would be interested in hearing more of your perspective on the Added Benefits of the 52D as the single shot chamber. I do appreciate your data/real world driven answers to often 'emotional' questions... Adding to that question, Will you be putting the 52D chamber in the Shillen barrels as well??... Thanks. 4Certain.
 
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#629

The first few rifles are built in St. George and I've written the press release, which will be going out as a few more pieces come together. I'm headed to the NRL Nationals tomorrow and then up to KY over the weekend to work with Ivan on a few things and shortly after, I'll have targets, data, etc., to post up here.

As I've mentioned numerous times, I've never been one to sit down at a bench and shoot for extended periods, especially as a "BR" shooter. I've been an "on-the-move" shooter with an AR, pistol and shotgun in 3Gun matches, so bear with me as I make the change. My plan is to participate in the Factory Hot Rod Class and maybe move up from there. In parallel with that, Ivan will be getting his rifle built and we've both been working on ammo for a while. I'll be making a trip to Ohio to the Lapua Test Facility with my rifle likely later in September and if the timing is right, Ivan may be going with me with his rifle.

So, bear in mind that info from Vudoo on complete rifles will take shape and be shared as ammo and rifles are fielded. There's an immense amount of work involved and it's different from what it takes to get repeaters together and develop data.

MB
 
#631

Yessir, I was going to PM you since I’m in town for a couple days. Feel free to come and watch, I’m there all day Friday but headed up to KY on Saturday morning.

MB
 
#633

Sounds good, my Son and I land around 10a tomorrow, so if the match doesn’t work out, maybe we can link up for lunch after we land. Not much happening tomorrow but definitely be knocking around Moonshine Harley for a bit.

MB
 
#643
I just built a true f-class rimfire on a masterclass stock with a 2500x i think ill buy another masterclass when my vudoo gets to my shop.. if your interested in seeing this build look my shop up on Facebook you will be glad you did. Gregory lee Gardner mattoon illinois lee Gardner precision

I also want to say that i think this is huge for vudoo. The Br crowd are different animals. just their nature. ive been smithing for a couple of the best their is and they can be very demanding... I have no doubt that this new vudoo will be up for the task. I applaud vudoo in this endeavor!!
 
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#644
Ok fellas, lighting it up as promised. I carried my V-22S barreled action to KY and Jamie at BBRS did a bang up job on the stock. Once it was all together, we went to Ivan's tunnel to see what we had and it certainly didn't disappoint. We put a tuner on it, ran through the range of the tuner looking for key signs of what this thing likes and after we had it in the ballpark, shot a few rounds from three different boxes of Eley Black Box. Then, I shot my first ever BR card for score and turns out, we have one helluva competitive rifle on our hands. Still a bit of fine tuning left to do, but this rifle will be in St. Louis in early Sept.

V-22S Single Shot Action
Mueller Barrel (yes, this is one of the four I slugged early on and after a wee bit of finish lapping, I'm likin' it)
Pro-X Tuner
Vudoo/Flavio VS-BR Trigger with Vertical Fire Control
BBRS Custom Stock















I know a few guys have thrown around the question, "yeah, but is it going to be competitive?" Well, I do believe so....

Thank you Ivan Wells and Jamie Burgess for an incredible amount of work in a really short amount of time. You guys have impressed me time and again and I appreciate the hard work.

MB
 
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#646

You’re quite welcome Trav. As you can imagine, this has come together very methodically and the really hard work in the forefront is paying off nicely. I’m really pleased with how this rifle came together.

Nominal diameter of what we’re using is .900”, but there’s a slight variation barrel-to-barrel. This Mueller is .872” and there’s a .0005 slip fit, tuner to muzzle. So, when you order your tuner, you can use the .900” diameter, but it’s best to order it undersized and have it properly fit to your barrel.

MB
 
#649
MB , yes Sightron S!!! 10/50 my scope Of choice.. And running it at 50 pwr.
I like dressing my 52C with it , when I practice shooting cards.
great job, what did you think of shooting a card with your new V22S
 
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