Mark, that's very good shooting for a repeater on the ARA target! Nicely Done!
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Vudoo V-22S Single Shot BR/F-Class Action
- Thread starter RAVAGE88
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Congratulations. Let us know your first impressions, after you get a chance to set it up, and zero in at the range!
Cannot wait to see how the production rifles do in the hands of the consumer!
The better quality match grade ammo, i.e., Eley Tenex and Match as well as Lapua Midas Plus and X-Act are available from the usual retailers. Most competitors in the RFBR game already have an inventory of ammo they are familiar shooting in their current rifles. You are correct about the generic ammo in a lot of calibers - 9mm and 5.56 are really scarce and when you do find it, it's pricey.
There should be enough good match grade ammo to dial the new V-22S in and then put it to the test in whatever application you're planning for yours.
Mark_a18138 - what are your thoughts on the new Vudoo single shot??? We are all waiting on an update. Pics........ anything to tie me over until I get mine, fingers-crossed. I hope I get the call soon.
Well I have run into some delivery problems, my luck in 2020. Pics soon!Mark_a18138 - what are your thoughts on the new Vudoo single shot??? We are all waiting on an update. Pics........ anything to tie me over until I get mine, fingers-crossed. I hope I get the call soon.
So now that we’re some 17 pages in, I would like to ask a question to the guys that have ordered this gun, primarily for benchrest related activities. Makes no difference as to plans for sanctioned shooting, club shooting, or simple personal development.
Whatever the long term story plays out here, there is no question this represents a big departure from the “ traditional” methodology by working with a smith and securing components either by him or yourself.
Now this is nothing but personal curiosity, but anybody care to give a few reasons in your personal decision as to why this, not that?
zero justification needed here........your money, your choice.
Whatever the long term story plays out here, there is no question this represents a big departure from the “ traditional” methodology by working with a smith and securing components either by him or yourself.
Now this is nothing but personal curiosity, but anybody care to give a few reasons in your personal decision as to why this, not that?
zero justification needed here........your money, your choice.
Tim, the two folks I know that have ordered the new rifle already have at least 2 custom BR rifles. They also have V22 rifles. So with Mike's design variance from the "norm", they want to see how well the new rifle stands up to their custom rifles. So, in my opinion, a little curiosity, and a little Vudoo reputation. It should be a great shooter. Time will tell....
I hate to hear that! I hope you get it straightened out quickly. Still want to see some pics when it shows up. I saw where you plan to shoot RF F-class with it. I'm planning to do the same with mine. What barrel and barrel length did you go with? I'm using a Muller 8 groove around 25".
I haven't ordered one yet but plan to soon. A convenient pre-configured package of tested and assembled components for F-class or benchrest. What smiths offer this? They might be out there but where do I find them? Do they make it this convenient? If I can find them, are they old and tired; only producing a handful of rifles per year which puts me at the bottom of a multi-year waiting list? There's a hole in the rimfire world for this. What's that different from what Kelbly has been doing besides being RF oriented?
Well, while I guess your first statement is most important, but lots of smiths.....fairly easy to find, and generally no multi year anything.
Old and tired???
well that makes perfect sense, I guess. If I had fewer BR rifles I could see that, but between CF & RF I have 8 so It would be dumb to throw more on my plate.
"between CF & RF I have 8 so It would be dumb to throw more on my plate."
Unclear on that logic unless primarily economic. Typically you only shoot one rifle per event, so hardly an issue of finding time to shoot a 9th rifle in an event. Select the rifle that best matches the event and go with it.
If you see that others are succeeding with the V22S, and you are semi-serious about competing, seems you'd be inclined to take the plunge. I have the serial number for my action, an action (and VS trigger) that may have shipped to my smith today (waiting on tracking), worst case (?) tomorrow. It will be the basis for my first purpose-built RFBR build (ARA Unlimited). I selected it because, basically, Mike sold me via messages and his videos. While his action is brand new to RFBR, as is the VS trigger, Mike is certainly not new to the design and building of good, solid, accurate rifles. I admit to being an early adopter and I have the coin. Worth it for me.
Unclear on that logic unless primarily economic. Typically you only shoot one rifle per event, so hardly an issue of finding time to shoot a 9th rifle in an event. Select the rifle that best matches the event and go with it.
If you see that others are succeeding with the V22S, and you are semi-serious about competing, seems you'd be inclined to take the plunge. I have the serial number for my action, an action (and VS trigger) that may have shipped to my smith today (waiting on tracking), worst case (?) tomorrow. It will be the basis for my first purpose-built RFBR build (ARA Unlimited). I selected it because, basically, Mike sold me via messages and his videos. While his action is brand new to RFBR, as is the VS trigger, Mike is certainly not new to the design and building of good, solid, accurate rifles. I admit to being an early adopter and I have the coin. Worth it for me.
I selected (found) a slightly-used Weaver T-36 and am very happy with it. Before that purchase I bought a brand new NF 15-55x52 Competition, received it, looked thru it, packed it up, and returned it. Why? For my old eyes the crosshairs are too thin - as are those of every other scope I've looked thru. I was using a Weaver T-Series XR 46x48 and I kept losing the crosshairs because they are too thin - the same thickness as pretty much all (all?) the currently-in-production models from the majors. If you have to mess with getting off the bulls, or entire target, to find the crosshairs again and again you are wasting both time and causing frustrtaion - neither of which are highly recommended in competition. This post is simply a heads up for those that might have the same vision issue.
Not a question of per event issues. Each rig requires testing, load/ ammo development, etc.
My rimfires represent IMO top flight equipment but even there, testing a couple new barrels this past season so it boils down essentially to time management.
Shooting IR 50/50 for some 30 odd years have always had a couple “first line “ match guns and behind them, a couple “development“ guns. Every once in a while, #2 becomes #1 and a new build or buy comes into the equation so we keep moving forward.....keeps one busy enough, call it a system.
That all said, I’ll keep an interested eye on how this plays out, a few interesting new twists in the equation. Mike and his crew are bright and innovative but that said, this is a tough game to be very competitive in, equipment, over all, has gotten very good in recent years, especially barrels....we shall see.
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I ordered a V22S action based on a good deal of positive experience with three V-22 repeaters of my own, and feedback from several customers that I've sold V-22 repeaters to. In addition, I've had a totally positive relationship with Mike Bush, Paul & Jill Parrot, along with all the other folks I've spoken with at VGW. So I have a very high level of confidence & expectation in the potential of the V-22S. While I do have a good deal of interest in 22 RFBR, my background has mostly been with NRA Hi Power, both across the course & MR/LR prone, so I'm hoping to find a club that's interested in running 22RF F-class. I've owned Anschutz prone rifles - 1611 & 2011 models, but am confident that I'll wind up preferring the V-22S action for this application.
Hello!
I'm new to the forum but not new to single shot. I just ordered my rifle the other day. Unfortunately it won't be here til JANUARY! I'm coming off a 40X which shoots very well. I am and have been a club shooter since I started the sport. Scores are mostly 250-14/18X. Hoping to improve on that with the new rifle. The 40X is great but there have been so many improvements in the equipment since my gun was made I figured I'd bite the bullet (as they say).
Anyway, It's nice to meet you fellas and any incite you care to share would be appreciated!
I'm new to the forum but not new to single shot. I just ordered my rifle the other day. Unfortunately it won't be here til JANUARY! I'm coming off a 40X which shoots very well. I am and have been a club shooter since I started the sport. Scores are mostly 250-14/18X. Hoping to improve on that with the new rifle. The 40X is great but there have been so many improvements in the equipment since my gun was made I figured I'd bite the bullet (as they say).
Anyway, It's nice to meet you fellas and any incite you care to share would be appreciated!
There are a lot of good scopes you can select from ... it makes since to match your scope to the primary mission you'll be committing your rifle to. I've got three great scopes currently: a Nightforce Precision Benchrest 12-42X56mm with NP-R2™ Reticle - 2 MOA elevation and 5 MOA windage increments allow for multiple zero and hold points along with accurate range finding, a Leupold Competition 45X45mm with a simple crosshair "target dot" reticle and a Vortex Golden Eagle 15-60X52mm with the ECR-1 (Enhanced Crosshair Reticle) ) is a hash marked reticle using moa based subtension lines for holdover, and windage corrections.
I like each one of these scopes - they are all high quality (read that as expensive) optics that function well for my purpose. The Leupold 45X is simple - single magnification and simple reticle. I hardly ever use the rifle this scope is mounted on to shoot anything but 50 yard targets. The Nightforce Precision Benchrest 12-42X scope has a bit more versatility with variable magnification and the subtension reticle. I shoot past 100 yards with this rifle/scope using the sub tensions instead of dialing the scope. Then there's the Golden Eagle, the one you're considering. It's robust, has FAR more than enough magnification for RFBR shooting and plenty of subtensions for hold-overs or hold-offs. I've used this rifle/scope combo (on my Vudoo repeater) to shoot past 200 yards and it works great.
I like the Golden Eagle on my V-22 repeater primarily because I shoot this rifle/scope at a lot of yardages and I feel it's optimal for more of a NRL22 or PRS application. For the V-22S build I think the scope, either Leupold or Nightforce, would be better for 50 yard exclusive shooting.
I hope this helps ...
No disrespect intended for not mentioning Sightron ... I don't have experience with this manufacturer but I understand it's a great scope. At the 2020 ARA Nationals out of a field of 100 competitors, here's the breakdown: Leupold 13, Nightforce 51, Sightron 13, Weaver 7
excellent scope, my first march scope (have almost all the other big names), not giving anything up
best part is focus down to 10 yards, so if you want to do some shooting closer than 50 yard targets, it still works
above 45x its like cheating
marchscopes.com
best part is focus down to 10 yards, so if you want to do some shooting closer than 50 yard targets, it still works
above 45x its like cheating
D60HV56T (MOA, Tactical) | MARCH Scopes | DEON Optical Design CorporationMARCH Scopes | DEON Optical Design Corporation
MARCH Scopes Official Site
marchscopes.com
Thank you for that great post. Each of those scopes are on top of the list and about the budget I had in mind. Leaning against the Leupold as it does not have the versatility the others have. Never owned a Vortex or NF. I've looked through that NF u have and was very impressed
Had a 1050 on my first vudoo about 2 years ago.
I’m trying to remember what scope mount I had then but I couldn’t get it zerod for 30-40 yard targets.
Kids wanted to shoot kyl racks in close when I got them shooting.
Since then I picked up sb5/45 and March 10-60 for other rifles both are muuuch brighter scopes.
Kahles was built like a tank but , I sold the kahles and bought another March.
I’m trying to remember what scope mount I had then but I couldn’t get it zerod for 30-40 yard targets.
Kids wanted to shoot kyl racks in close when I got them shooting.
Since then I picked up sb5/45 and March 10-60 for other rifles both are muuuch brighter scopes.
Kahles was built like a tank but , I sold the kahles and bought another March.
I've never laid eyes upon a Kahles 10-50, but do have three K624i AMR scopes on Bighorn rifles I shoot in PRS & other practical/tactical matches. I've always enjoyed shooting behind these scopes; never felt the need for anything better, either optically or mechanically speaking. I might very well have gone with a couple more of them on the two heavy V-22 comp rifles, but the parallax on them doesn't focus down close enough for rimfire use.
Personal opinion as all are, but for the most part there is a big part of these games that are "keeping up with the Jones". Kahles seems to be the current flavor if you want to "keep up".
That being said I think you have to decide what your budget is and what you need out of it. I will start by saying if you have any interest in shooting in such a way that you need to dial in/out for large distance variations, get a FFP scope and these views don't really apply. For BR, a second plane scope is better suited.
For Value, I think the undisputed leader in the house is the Sightron 10-50x. Big and heavy, but for the most part solid and many winning shooters use them.
Most common: NF 15-55x. There is a reason they are the most used scope on the line. Solid, clear, and reliable. The 12-42 is a nice scope as well, but much heavier and doesn't have the higher magnification, but also only just above half the price.
New guy to the block: Kahles 10-50. I have looked through them and they are fine, but not a big fan of the reticle. That's personal so not a deal breaker. Only complaint I have heard is the parallax is very touchy. I know guys who have had NF before them and say they wish they had not changed and others who think they are all the rage. As with anything, it's all personal experience. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer.
There have been issues with all of these in some form or fashion. I have had a Sightron that didn't track. We have also all heard of NF that didn't track and the same for every other vendor out there. These are usually the exceptions and not the rules.
I personally prefer the floating dot in the NF 15-55. I have three of them. One of the best pieces of advice I believe I ever got in this game is standardize everything you can. It makes changing anything, especially at critical times, less intrusive.
They are all good scopes. Find one in the price range you want to spend and go for it.
That being said I think you have to decide what your budget is and what you need out of it. I will start by saying if you have any interest in shooting in such a way that you need to dial in/out for large distance variations, get a FFP scope and these views don't really apply. For BR, a second plane scope is better suited.
For Value, I think the undisputed leader in the house is the Sightron 10-50x. Big and heavy, but for the most part solid and many winning shooters use them.
Most common: NF 15-55x. There is a reason they are the most used scope on the line. Solid, clear, and reliable. The 12-42 is a nice scope as well, but much heavier and doesn't have the higher magnification, but also only just above half the price.
New guy to the block: Kahles 10-50. I have looked through them and they are fine, but not a big fan of the reticle. That's personal so not a deal breaker. Only complaint I have heard is the parallax is very touchy. I know guys who have had NF before them and say they wish they had not changed and others who think they are all the rage. As with anything, it's all personal experience. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer.
There have been issues with all of these in some form or fashion. I have had a Sightron that didn't track. We have also all heard of NF that didn't track and the same for every other vendor out there. These are usually the exceptions and not the rules.
I personally prefer the floating dot in the NF 15-55. I have three of them. One of the best pieces of advice I believe I ever got in this game is standardize everything you can. It makes changing anything, especially at critical times, less intrusive.
They are all good scopes. Find one in the price range you want to spend and go for it.
I've been using the Delta Stryker 5-50x56 (similar to the Trijicon AccuPower® 5-50x56 )and been impressed with it. The only 'negative'i have to say about it is that it is heavy and the reticle is thinner than i would ideally like it (old eyes !). Used at 50, 100 and 200m. To my eyes i'd have to get a March to get something that was 'better'.
How did this thread get derailed again? Although the scope topic is good conversation it not about the V22S. Maybe someone can start a .22 optics thread.
Tim7139, I’m going to try to respond to your question but I’ll no doubt be turning my answer into a question that you (or others forum readers) are more able to answer - and that is “just what does a smith do to produce a “custom” built rifle.
I’ve got a complete “Target Rifle” build in progress from VGW that will be configured with a Shilen Ratchet 0.900” straight taper barrel, the V-22S action, Vudoo-Flavio Fare trigger in a McMillan Edge stock. Once received I’ll put a Harrell’s tuner and will scavenge scope and rings from another rifle and I’ll be off to the races.
Here’s the tasks that I understand the smith, or for that matter, anyone building a quality RFBR rifle, undertakes:
1. Ensure the integrity of the action - is it “true”.
2. Evaluate the ignition system and tune to gunsmith “specifications”
2. Slug, cut, crown and chamber the barrel.
3. Properly bed the barreled action to the stock. The gunsmith might outsource this task or do it themselves.
4. Assemble and test the rifle to meet what are generally undefined specs or expectations.
There's probably many other tasks or refinements of these basic tasks that are included in the process that I'm not sophisticated enough to appreciate.
I guess the bottom line is “what extremes do the world class gunsmiths go to while building a custom rifle”.
For the last year, Holeshot Arms has periodically offered “Spec Rifles” for a very reasonable price. Jerry Stiller has built these rifles using his 2500X actions and barrels that he’s chambered and tested that are very good barrels but maybe not what a National Champion would accept as a world class barrel. These Spec Rifles are equipped with a Jewell trigger and are mounted in a RO-Tex stock. They are tested prior to being offered and are not put up for sale until they meet Holeshot’s expectations.
I own and I know several guys who own examples of Holeshot Spec Rifles. I compete in club matches against these shooter/rifle configurations and most of the time we are satisfied with our results. Then there’s the few guys who build truly custom rifles with as much attention to details as they can muster. These competitors have won big in the sanctioned matches and they always end up on the podium at our matches.
It seems to me that the Holeshot “Spec Rifles” and the Vudoo V-22S “Target Rifles” are built with the same intent: provide a high quality rifle that 90-95% of shooters - sanctioned shooters, club shooters or shooters only interested in personal development - will find more than adequate. The remaining 5-10% of shooters might find it necessary to test several barrels, fine tune actions and ignition systems, disassemble and polish trigger components and probably other tasks that are well beyond my understanding.
Truly custom built RFBR rifles, the way I understand it, are the product of a seasoned competitor and their hand picked gunsmith. These builds are the result of a collaboration between the competitor and the gunsmith and are much different (time required to build and cost of the build) than the Spec or Target rifles.
Maybe the Holeshot Spec Rifles, Vudoo V-22S Target Rifles and similar other offerings begin life with less experienced shooters and receive upgrades (barrels, triggers, etc.) as the less experienced shooter develops his skill set and increases his expectations as a competitor.
Well, frankly, it is not a clear cut answer, but I’ll give it a shot.
First off, while Stiller has offered a few guns, I think he is in more of the demographic of custom smith as well as component mfr. that does this as a general service to the shooting community.
That said, he also makes probably, the only custom action requiring zero “ blueprinting”. A few guys tinker with springs but, hell, that doesn't require A gunsmithing class.
Most gunsmiths building bonafide match winning guns are talented enough to recognize and address any items that may be required from a particular platform, turbo, 10X, whatever.
For instance, I have among my BR guns, 2 10X guns, a 2&3 lug, built by different smiths and both required some modest improvements, the ability to recognize and perform them Is where these guys come into their own.
The single, SINGLE, biggest thing you pay for is the ability to evaluate and properly fit and chamber a match winning barrel and this is very challenging given an awful lot of, even experienced shooters, cannot recognize the difference between a decent barrel and a real outlier, they’re out there but harder to come by. Some of the absolute best smiths will shoot, adjust chamber, shoot more and have that barrel off and back on a lot before satisfied, as well as tuning, often burning through several boxes of ammo.
These are a few items involved in trying to end up with a high performing finished product.
So, while saying all this, I am well aware that lots of guys , as well, simply are very interested in laying down hard earned money for a quality product that will be competitive. That market should be served and we are about to learn if this is about to be realized.
The fundamental reason I asked my question above is because in looking at where final pricing ends up, both options are about the same, clearly, other issues are present and I’m curious.
Again, as I have told Mike directly........anything serving the precision shooters market and increasing participation in any form is an absolute win/win for everybody.
First off, while Stiller has offered a few guns, I think he is in more of the demographic of custom smith as well as component mfr. that does this as a general service to the shooting community.
That said, he also makes probably, the only custom action requiring zero “ blueprinting”. A few guys tinker with springs but, hell, that doesn't require A gunsmithing class.
Most gunsmiths building bonafide match winning guns are talented enough to recognize and address any items that may be required from a particular platform, turbo, 10X, whatever.
For instance, I have among my BR guns, 2 10X guns, a 2&3 lug, built by different smiths and both required some modest improvements, the ability to recognize and perform them Is where these guys come into their own.
The single, SINGLE, biggest thing you pay for is the ability to evaluate and properly fit and chamber a match winning barrel and this is very challenging given an awful lot of, even experienced shooters, cannot recognize the difference between a decent barrel and a real outlier, they’re out there but harder to come by. Some of the absolute best smiths will shoot, adjust chamber, shoot more and have that barrel off and back on a lot before satisfied, as well as tuning, often burning through several boxes of ammo.
These are a few items involved in trying to end up with a high performing finished product.
So, while saying all this, I am well aware that lots of guys , as well, simply are very interested in laying down hard earned money for a quality product that will be competitive. That market should be served and we are about to learn if this is about to be realized.
The fundamental reason I asked my question above is because in looking at where final pricing ends up, both options are about the same, clearly, other issues are present and I’m curious.
Again, as I have told Mike directly........anything serving the precision shooters market and increasing participation in any form is an absolute win/win for everybody.
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The thread got 'derailed' as it was trying to be resuscitated....
Well my buddy Otis got some range time with his new V22S...Krieger HV barrel, no tuner yet. Here is the first 50 rounds out of the gun. Zero ammo testing just some random CenterX. Switching wind about 8 mph no wind flags.
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So, is this good or bad? At this point, it's totally unknown due to the fact it being only a single target shot in conditions I wasn't able to witness.
I've shot enough RFBR matches over the years with all the top shooters and equipment to become fairly adept at judging what competitive scores should be due to wind, range peculiarities, and known shooter's skills along with the quality of their equipment they may be using at a particular match.
In this case an approx 1950 score could be anything from maybe the top 25% to the bottom 25%, but in my estimation it's most likely to be an above average score considering no flags and the reported winds by Mark.
I'd have to say this shows a lot of potential and I'm looking forward to seeing future reports that I might be able to analyze.
For those it may interest, I've created a visual composite of the target using TDS so you can get a rough idea of the shot distribution.
Landy
Well Landy we should get some more data this weekend. I talked Otis into coming out to a 12 card ABRA match this weekend in Boerne, Tx! He will be using his TR f-class setup at the match.So, is this good or bad? At this point, it's totally unknown due to the fact it being only a single target shot in conditions I wasn't able to witness.
I've shot enough RFBR matches over the years with all the top shooters and equipment to become fairly adept at judging what competitive scores should be due to wind, range peculiarities, and known shooter's skills along with the quality of their equipment they may be using at a particular match.
In this case an approx 1950 score could be anything from maybe the top 25% to the bottom 25%, but in my estimation it's most likely to be an above average score considering no flags and the reported winds by Mark.
I'd have to say this shows a lot of potential and I'm looking forward to seeing future reports that I might be able to analyze.
For those it may interest, I've created a visual composite of the target using TDS so you can get a rough idea of the shot distribution.
Landy
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Landy, help me understand the relevance of your recent post.
What has this target analysis have to do with a Vudoo V22S?
What has this target analysis have to do with a Vudoo V22S?
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