Weed for ptsd. Thoughts?

[Fig]

Taking a depressant when you’re depressed is never a good idea. Taking a hallucinogen? That’s more complicated. I agree with the above that it depends on the person, and the hallucinogen. If the person gets paranoid when they’re high on pot, like some people do, I would say that’s exacerbating PTSD.

Some time ago I read where people were taking MDMA, Ecstasy, for PTSD/depression and it was an effective treatment. I would think the panoply of happy pills to treat depression would be more effective than marijuana. The best medicine for PTSD is time. If you need drugs to buy more time and prevent you from doing something stupid I’m all for it.

 

[MarinePMI]

It's absolutely an individual thing depending on a person's condition either a Sativa or Indica have different effects.
One is a mind and one is a body high and effects the physiology differently and can have a profound difference on the person depending on thier mood and state of mind.
I live in a state were it's all completly legal so my opinion is most likely vastly different that many here.

So, are you saying legalization has been good for Colorado?

 

[XLR308]

So, are you saying legalization has been good for Colorado?

So, are you saying legalization has been good for Colorado?

I'm not saying it has been good or bad since I was born and raised in the Texas hillcountry.
What I do know is it is completly unethical to continue to persecute and incarcerate people for something that is, has been and allways will be there for financial gain in regards to the judicial system which is a corrupt and broken shitholes.
I personally believe that there are many that can benefit from the legalization of it all though pretty much every job I have ever had in my entire life demonize it and exclude it.

 

[HousePlant]

First of all, it completely depends on how you react to THC. Same as it completely depends on how you react to Prozac, or simlar.

If your PTSD symptoms are primarily social anxiety or irrational fear/jumpiness, then it could be helpful in carefully planned doses against a regimin.

If your PTSD leads to mania or depression - you hate yourself, you do things repetitively, you feel you are regressing into a dark place - then THC can make it worse.

And all of that again depends on how you react to THC. In some people, caffeine actualy causes their body to get tired (usually people with cronic high blood pressure). You should really talk to a medical professional familiar with medicinal THC uses (and not some quack-a-mole prescription writer hippy). Ideally anyone with PTSD is in a similar program to AA to develop a supportive network, engaged regularly with a psychologist (not a psychiatrist, which is just another name for "drug pusher"), and looking to actively develop a relaxing hobby (examples: meditation, wood working, fishing, etc.).

 

[XLR308]

So, are you saying legalization has been good for Colorado?

Just my observation of it regarding your initial question from my point of view given the limited time I have lived here.
There are way to many fucking bums here in the relatively small town I live in and I personally feel it is a direct result of legalized weed since many I see have signs hinting to such a train of thought.
But there is also the issue of the Demonrat controlled state government that is a small localalized area in Dumver and the boulder area that stink up the rest of the state just like many other states.

 

[Cheyenne Bodie]

I think all drugs should be legal for adults and crimes of theft or trespassing should be mortally defended against. Prohibition, even if it did work, is not the place of the government to enforce at large. I have no desire to pay taxes for the rehabilitation of anyone, either. Jail people for crimes, not drugs. You wanna get hooked on addictive hard drugs and steal or hazard others to a harmful chain of events from behind the wheel then I won't cry when you catch a bullet for it, you'd deserve it and the rest of us will be better off without you. Your actions have consequences, I also have no desire to make that an escapable fact by neutering the law's ability to prosecute a person when he trespasses against his fellow man. Furthermore if I want to say no drugs or intoxication on my property I expect that obliged.

Now with weed for PTSD I'll leave that up to each person to decide if it works for them, carefully. There is no moral aspect in trying weed or any other drug, but it can be very dangerous. I don't especially like drugs myself and expect any escape from reality type of device won't lead anyone to a better understanding of much at all. As a vice however weed is harmless, and I have zero desire to have my taxes go to enforcement of it's illegality. You wanna smoke dope and oversleep for everything go nuts, doesn't effect me at all so why should I care. Shit, some the folks around here could use a good toke or two as high goddamn strung as they are.

 

[brianf]

I understand both sides of the coin and there have beed a few informative posts on both sides. I do believe that in some cases current “recreational” drugs may help symptoms, and any combat vet who is having problems should get every and any remedy the USA has bar none.

Psychiatric treatment is not one size fits all, and a community approach is needed in almost all cases.

I would say that most agree with you that if you want to kill yourself or ruin your life than go ahead...don’t let me or the govt stop you.
I personally that should be extended to the elderly or terminally ill but that is a different topic.

But as is the case they are not in a bubble.

you want to rob a store and go to jail, fine by me. But let’s not forget that jail costs ME money. Your poor choices are now infringing on me and my family.

when you injure or kill the store owner because as we all know users become addicts (yes ...mj/weed is habit forming contrary to the uninformed belief that is skewed by many)

it becomes a community problem and the govt has to step in. Even if it’s a local agency or a “neighborhood watch” it’s still a form of govt oversight.

the next example is we all have to agree that your motor functions and cognitive alertness are slightly diminished while using narcotics/weed. If there is not a consensus on that, the conversation can not be started or continued.

one of the major road blocks is the lack of a immediate point of use drug test as there is with alcohol /breathalyzer. People love to use alcohol as the bad guy in these conversations.

There are currently no tests that decipher between a guy who just smoked a small “joint” and a guy who smoked his brains out last week. Likewise with Coke,LSD etc. the material stays in you system exponentially longer than the “hi”. While alcohol is processed in your body at a person by person specific rate after witch all traces and bi products are removed from the body

in theory one guy is capable to drive a vehicle and the other guy is impaired.

if both get into a accident one is under the influence and the other is just a accident. This has vastly different ramifications as they should.

Also it has been (pier reviewed..medical fact) that some drugs actually change brain wave pathways and first time users can become addicted. So many who erroneously believe that just “one try” isn’t bad can have the person addicted on the spot. This was especially seen with heroine and it’s derivative when studies were performed in the 70’s.

thst brings us to adulterated drugs and alike but this could go in for ever.

even if we all agree to legalize MJ/weed...like tobacco...big Tabasco was mixing in additives to create addiction. It is only a matter of time before oversight is needed from the FDA or alike to keep growers/farmers in line.

now big brother is controlling MJ/weed, import export distribution and personal use. They can easily put a limit on volume and location as they have with behind the counter cold medicines and smoking cigarettes.

the more which is legalized to more the government has control.

my phone is acting weird so if there are some strange sentences sorry.

 

[MarinePMI]

I've seen too many lives wasted, damaged or thrown away because of drugs (marijuana included), to ever support recreational legalized use. Medically I can see a use, and support that. But just because "murica" & "Freedom"? Nope.

Society exists because of established laws/rules being in place. Those laws are usually rooted in the Bible (in this country), and what it has long held (and demonstrated) as rules to curb excesses. And before people get their panties in a wad, I'm not Bible thumping. I'm talking about basic tenets that extend further back than the Bible.

Funny how the Greco-Roman Decalogue is an almost verbal match (when translated) to the biblical 10 Commandments...but pre-dates the Bible by several centuries.

Apparently, long before organized, monotheistic religion existed, the wise people of old already knew that society needed some rules to protect people from their own vices...drugs have been, and always will be, one of those vices.

JMTCW...

 

[Maggot]

Oh man,

Here comes the battle medical vs recreational.

Its so fucked up now legalize EVERY FUCKING THING while demanding PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY and in a year all will be perfect.

Its that simple

 

[pmclaine]

Its that simple

I think so.

It will be tragic for many but in the end it will sort itself out.

 

[Maggot]

Funny this came up again. My position somewhat evolved from uncertainty/doubt to I believe THC can play a role in PTSD Tx, not just masking symptoms.

If anyone is truly interested in PTSD Tx, I highly recommend looking into racemic ketamine infusions. Not FDA approved but reimbursed by insurance as an out of network expense

I know a couple people taking the Ketamine treatments. It seems to help for a short time after the treatment but the benefits wear off quickly. From what Ive read in several studies, the controlled and disciplined use of true psychoactives like psilocybin and LSD have greater benefits. Ketamine only treats the symptom whereas the psychoactives used in conjunction with good grounded therapy are more likely to get to the root or source of the problem. Before Timothy Leary fucked it up with his bullshit thats what LSD was used for.

Am I advocating for irresponsible drug usage? No, of course not, but we should have every reasonable option available to us. Before you start throwing shit do some real research. The article below is a good starting point.

Search Results
Web results

Therapeutic Use of LSD in Psychiatry: A Systematic ... - Frontiers
www.frontiersin.org › articles › fpsyt.2019.00943 › full

Jan 21, 2020 - LSD was used in the treatment of anxiety, depression, ... In three of the studies (59, 69, 72), no psychotherapyattempts were made during the ...
by JJ Fuentes - ‎2019 - ‎Cited by 2 - ‎Related articles
‎Introduction · ‎Methods · ‎Results · ‎Discussion

 

[Maggot]

I've seen too many lives wasted, damaged or thrown away because of drugs (marijuana included), to ever support recreational legalized use. Medically I can see a use, and support that. But just because "murica" & "Freedom"? Nope.

Society exists because of established laws/rules being in place. Those laws are usually rooted in the Bible (in this country), and what it has long held (and demonstrated) as rules to curb excesses. And before people get their panties in a wad, I'm not Bible thumping. I'm talking about basic tenets that extend further back than the Bible.

Funny how the Greco-Roman Decalogue is an almost verbal match (when translated) to the biblical 10 Commandments...but pre-dates the Bible by several centuries.

Apparently, long before organized, monotheistic religion existed, the wise people of old already knew that society needed some rules to protect people from their own vices...drugs have been, and always will be, one of those vices.

JMTCW...

Manure.

The 10 commandments are only a precursor to "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." If you do that, and by 'THAT' I mean acting, as PMclaine says, with RESPONSIBILITY' then all else works, including the use of drugs. If you dont follow that Golden Rule, then nothing works and we find ourselves in the state the world is in today. It has nothing to do with drugs, it all has to do with respect and responsibility. Far more lives have been ruined by alcohol abuse than all other drugs combined. Want to make alcohol illegal, or do you enjoy that after work beer?

Let me close in saying "Fuck the chicoms."

 

[pmclaine]

Manure.

The 10 commandments are only a precursor to "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." If you do that, and by 'THAT' I mean acting, as PMclaine says, with RESPONSIBILITY' then all else works, including the use of drugs. If you dont follow that Golden Rule, then nothing works and we find ourselves in the state the world is in today. It has nothing to do with drugs, it all has to do with respect and responsibility. Far more lives have been ruined by alcohol abuse than all other drugs combined. Want to make alcohol illegal, or do you enjoy that after work beer?

Let me close in saying "Fuck the chicoms."

Thing is lots wont act responsibly.

Lots includes our kids.

The fallout will be huge.

Is the tradgedy worth it?

I think so in the end.

At least people will have free will rather than being zombies kept at the bare subsistence as dependents on the govt in exchange for........?

 

[Eli17L]

IMO weed is good for getting stoned and pissing away your life. I have developed that opinion working in a clinic that issues the cards for medical use. Could it help for PTSD and anxiety? Yes but most often not and you can end up in a worse place than you started. There are so many types of ever changing product that one bag that worked great could be followed buy a bag that puts you in a very bad place and the dispensaries are not spelling that out to people.
There are many natural supplements that can help and are far safer and ALL should be tried before this one.

 

[MarinePMI]

Therapy?

Here’s the oldest therapy...waiting on a bite....

 

[Sandhog308]

I think it’s up to each person to decide if weed works for them or not.Don’t think it’s worth going to the pokey over.
I’ve seen peoples lives get fucked up from everything from alcohol , tobacco, coke, meth, food ,blunt force trauma , cheating on spouse or significant other ...Combat .... the list goes on. MOST of everything revolves around anyway $$$.
Watch TV for a hour and you see pharma after pharma commercials $$$.
I remember when you couldn’t buy Coors in the state live , so we’d do road trips across state lines to buy it. Legal now , never drink it ! If weed helps anyone for PTSD to be A help in eating food after chemo treatment, Great ! They aren’t criminals in my eyes

 

[W54/XM-388]

Funny how the Greco-Roman Decalogue is an almost verbal match (when translated) to the biblical 10 Commandments...but pre-dates the Bible by several centuries.

Not to nit pick, but are you saying that the Greco-Roman Decalogue was written down around 2000 BC then?

Because the Hebrew 10 commandments were written into stone, well a really long time ago, so to pre date that by a couple hundred years.....

 

[Maggot]

Therapy?

Here’s the oldest therapy...waiting on a bite....

View attachment 7394429

No argument there but some need taht and more.

Beautiful photo BTW. I see youre from San Diego. The only city I could live in and thats not even certain, but great climate, good hiways, good restaurants, the Pacific Ocean, etc. Ever been to the 'Blue Hole' a little fish place down by the airport and Marine base? Some of the best fish Ive ever had. If not check it out.

 

[MarinePMI]

Not to nit pick, but are you saying that the Greco-Roman Decalogue was written down around 2000 BC then?

Because the Hebrew 10 commandments were written into stone, well a really long time ago, so to pre date that by a couple hundred years.....

Sigh...I’m not getting into a “who’s religion came first” debate, nor the validity of one faith’s claim over another. The point is about standard societal rules, REGARDLESS of religion or society.

So yes, you are nit picking.

 

[pmclaine]

Not to nit pick, but are you saying that the Greco-Roman Decalogue was written down around 2000 BC then?

Because the Hebrew 10 commandments were written into stone, well a really long time ago, so to pre date that by a couple hundred years.....

Code of Hammurabi.

A lot more verbose but if you pick and choose you can find the Ten Commandants within.

Some laws are just universal no brainers.

 

[MarinePMI]

No argument there but some need taht and more.

Beautiful photo BTW. I see youre from San Diego. The only city I could live in and thats not even certain, but great climate, good hiways, good restaurants, the Pacific Ocean, etc. Ever been to the 'Blue Hole' a little fish place down by the airport and Marine base? Some of the best fish Ive ever had. If not check it out.

True, but...it doesn't always require drugs.

I had two uncles, one Army (grunt), the other Marine (mortarman), both fought and lived through the battle of Hue city during the Tet Offensive. Neither of them ever spoke of how ugly it got, and yet both managed to come to terms with it years later (to varying degrees). To this day, my remaining uncles and Dad have no idea how they both survived. Yet, they smoked no dope, and took no drugs.

Everyone has demons; you either own them, or they will own you.

 

[Maggot]

No argument there but some need taht and more.

Beautiful photo BTW. I see youre from San Diego. The only city I could live in and thats not even certain, but great climate, good hiways, good restaurants, the Pacific Ocean, etc. Ever been to the 'Blue Hole' a little fish place down by the airport and Marine base? Some of the best fish Ive ever had. If not check it out.

Make that 'Blue Water' and its great.

 

[Maggot]

True, but...it doesn't always require drugs.

I had two uncles, one Army (grunt), the other Marine (mortarman), both fought and lived through the battle of Hue city during the Tet Offensive. Neither of them ever spoke of how ugly it got, and yet both managed to come to terms with it years later (to varying degrees). To this day, my remaining uncles and Dad have no idea how they both survived. Yet, they smoked no dope, and took no drugs.

Everyone has demons; you either own them, or they will own you.

"Everyone has demons; you either own them, or they will own you."

Agree 100%. Though of that age I fortunately missed Viet Nam. Had plenty of demons to deal with though. War isnt the only place to acquire them.

As to the rest, its been batted around and I can see both sides. I tend to be on the side of "If it helps you you (and doesnt harm others...which is where the responsibility comes in) you should have the right to do it without stigma.

 

[MarinePMI]

"Everyone has demons; you either own them, or they will own you."

Agree 100%. Though of that age I fortunately missed Viet Nam. Had plenty of demons to deal with though. War isnt the only place to acquire them.

As to the rest, its been batted around and I can see both sides. I tend to be on the side of "If it helps you you (and doesnt harm others...which is where the responsibility comes in) you should have the right to do it without stigma.

Agreed.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Code of Hammurabi.

A lot more verbose but if you pick and choose you can find the Ten Commandants within.

Some laws are just universal no brainers.

It would also be nice to use that to point out to the modern idiot class that slavery predated America by many thousands of years and was an evil that was written into law long before the whole "white people" were anything but a bunch of northern savages....

Then you back track from there and go to the Sumerians, then you go back from there to some really crazy old stuff like Göbekli Tepe and things become a lot more interesting as it starts looking like a lot of the much later "original" stuff, may not have been exactly all that "original"....

 

[Kir]

My first time in smokin' was in a darkened room with some neighbor friends. A small spinning lamp with colored christmas tree bulbs shone through the shade that had some weird designs on it. The lamp even made the ceiling light up and it all appeared to be spinning. We all began smoking and got high while some New Age music played. My whole body was tingling, like as if when I hit my thumb with a hammer. I got the feeling of losing control of what I wanted to do, but then I couldn't remember exactly if I wanted to do anything at all. A few of us fell asleep and of course awoke with the munchies. Later I thought...is this all there is? Is this what the government is making such a big deal of?
I tried smokin' again several times, mostly to get close to some woman or another. The last two times I tried it were the most intense. First, because I smoke a whole joint through a carburetor. I thought I would have to take a really big breath to make it go thru. I had been on the road and had to drive 90 miles to get home. My hands on the steering wheel were clutched tight. Needless to say, I am glad it was a two lane highway and light traffic because I did some weaving on the road. The next time I took a shorter drive after smokin' just across town, but once again it was highly intense as I was trying to remain alert as much as possible. I was told that the joint had been laced with opium. Needless to say after my drive, I laid down and took a good long nap.
After those two closely related times, I made a conscious decision not to do it again. Mainly, because I felt it was childish and secondly because I did not like, not being in control of my mind and body.
As for medicinal purposes, and specifically those who suffer from PTSD, if it helps, go for it. For anyone who takes it, for whatever purposes, please stay off the roads!

 

[diggler1833]

With all the crazy posting, I doubt many will see this and that's probably a good thing.

I am 100% VA disabled, and I didn't have to claim PTSD or sleep apnea to get there. Back in 2004, the military did it's best to hook me on opioids; prescribing them to me straight from Feb to Nov that year. How I didn't become an addict is a mystery. I also had liver enzymes three times the normal level when they checked me before surgery in Nov due to the fact that all those pills were cut with 325mg acetaminophen.

By the time I retired I was on a 2,700mg/day dose of Gabapentin. To say I felt a bit hazy would be an understatement.

I tried the CBD, and then the THC stuff. I felt zero effects with the CBD. With the THC I got such horrible anxiety that the pain relief wasn't worth it. I will say that that the pain relief equivalent to me was equal to pounding a six pack (I felt it, but cared less)...but again, the overwhelming anxiety was completely overshadowing.

Until I see FDA results, I'm hesitant to believe that MJ is anything but a recreational drug with maybe some positive side effects for some people. Mostly I think it's the equivalent to drinking away the pain with less hangover.

But I realize that others may have different views.

 

[pmclaine]

True, but...it doesn't always require drugs.

I had two uncles, one Army (grunt), the other Marine (mortarman), both fought and lived through the battle of Hue city during the Tet Offensive. Neither of them ever spoke of how ugly it got, and yet both managed to come to terms with it years later (to varying degrees). To this day, my remaining uncles and Dad have no idea how they both survived. Yet, they smoked no dope, and took no drugs.

Everyone has demons; you either own them, or they will own you.

Just finished reading a great book/memoir of a rural West Virginian that joined USMC 1939 or so as part of the 1st Marine Brigade - which became 1st Mar Div.

He was with K/3/5 from Guadalcanal to New Britain so its sort of the prequel to EB Sledge "With the Old Breed".

World War II Marine writes book titled ‘Earned in Blood’

With uncommon wisdom, intelligence and humility, Thurman Miller, 93, a native West Virginian and a resident of Maple Fork Road near Bradley, is a member of the Greatest Generation. He

www.wycoreport.com

Fantastic book for its historical perspective but also because the writer is a military student with a "big picture" understanding beyond what his one enlistment would suggest. He taps into Rogers Rules for Rangers which is excellent. His view of friendly fire deaths - an expected occurrence and those that suffer it as honorable as if they were struck down by the enemy - rings of a sharp rational mind.

He goes into his PTSD issues upon returning home. In addition to the mental scars he was racked with malaria and south Pacific disease. He came to a dark place where most end it but he carried on.

His "coping" isnt the answer for everyone but it could perhaps provide some comfort to know how others handle it.

Each trauma is unique so its not expected the answer would be "Hey he was able to deal with it" but it should be some what helpful to know you are not alone.

Places like the Legion, DAV etc were probably therapist offices in their day. Not solely for the alcohol but they could talk to somone that probably got it.

The military itself is PTSD inducing. Trying to get old friends that didnt serve to understand is impossible and that disconnect itself contributes to "alienation" or "stress".

Embrace the difference and be proud of the fact you did something others wouldnt do.

 

[pmclaine]

Therapy?

Here’s the oldest therapy...waiting on a bite....

View attachment 7394429

Looks like a TT pack.

Wish I could have got one in one thousand denier with the orange interior.

The one I have is five hundred without no lining.

Lightweight but not built for TEOTWAWKI

 

[mdmp5]

I know a couple people taking the Ketamine treatments. It seems to help for a short time after the treatment but the benefits wear off quickly. From what Ive read in several studies, the controlled and disciplined use of true psychoactives like psilocybin and LSD have greater benefits. Ketamine only treats the symptom whereas the psychoactives used in conjunction with good grounded therapy are more likely to get to the root or source of the problem.

No Maggot, the point of the ketamine is that it doesn’t treat the symptoms. Through the dissociative state, it deconstructs the mind and forces people into looking at their problems from a new perspective. Can take some time to work fully but some results are seen immediately. Maintenance treatment is typically done which varies between patients. May be anywhere between a month to several months between treatments

 

[Maggot]

No Maggot, the point of the ketamine is that it doesn’t treat the symptoms. Through the dissociative state, it deconstructs the mind and forces people into looking at their problems from a new perspective. Can take some time to work fully but some results are seen immediately. Maintenance treatment is typically done which varies between patients. May be anywhere between a month to several months between treatments

Thats not what Ive been told by people actually taking it. Im sure the outcome varies among the patients. That is, however, what Ive heard from those treated with some of the other substances I mentioned.

 

[mdmp5]

Thats not what Ive been told by people actually taking it. Im sure the outcome varies among the patients. That is, however, what Ive heard from those treated with some of the other substances I mentioned.

Psilocybin & LSD are not easy to come by legal route outside clinical trials, so even though they probably do work, and I believe they do as well, it’s simply not a viable option for a bunch of people. But take my word for it with the ketamine. Outcomes vary between patients as you said

 

[Steel+Killer]

Weed for ptsd. Thoughts?

Fuck yeah!

 

[Donnabell87]

So what the fuck CBD bullshit are you going to be linking to next?

Fucking spammers...

Link you to your mom

 

[Maggot]

Taking a depressant when you’re depressed is never a good idea. Taking a hallucinogen? That’s more complicated. I agree with the above that it depends on the person, and the hallucinogen. If the person gets paranoid when they’re high on pot, like some people do, I would say that’s exacerbating PTSD.

Some time ago I read where people were taking MDMA, Ecstasy, for PTSD/depression and it was an effective treatment. I would think the panoply of happy pills to treat depression would be more effective than marijuana. The best medicine for PTSD is time. If you need drugs to buy more time and prevent you from doing something stupid I’m all for it.

I have also heard that MDMA.Extacy is helpful but also thet the crash is horrible and often leave you in worse shape. The true hallucinogens, used under supervision, wisely, dont seem to have that effect. Good read below.


www.webmd.com › Mental Health › News

Sep 18, 2018 - Psilocybin, the compound in “magic mushrooms” that gets you high, has been ... of LSD or other drugs affect mental activity without altering perception. ... A phase III clinical trial of the use of MDMA to treat PTSD is moving ...

 

[Maggot]

Link you to your mom

I liked your post and thought it relevant. That said, youve been here less than a month so Id walk lightly in insulting old and respected members family.

Now I can call Red an asshole, wheich he freely admits to being, but Ive been here a LONG time and we've enjoyed insulting each other for years. Back up on insulting others family or youll make some enemies. Thats not wise if you like it here.

 

[acudaowner]

personally Id say no drugs are good drugs , running from a problem does not lessen that problem get help not high . marijuana is not a medicine you could just use cbe oils with little to no thc so the person does not get high but your not talking about glaucoma or seizures at all , but it does not treat anything so why I have two friends that have prescriptions for "medical" marijuana and all they do is get high on tax payers dimes going to 10 years now none of the issues that they went to get treated have ever been addressed nor discussed they just go back every so often to get another prescription for more weed when they started going to this doctor they said there were like one or two other people they would see now there are lines out the door and scripts are popcorn so point not missed just do not believed it . and Yes I blame my friends and there stupidity to allowing themselves to keep going back to get more , and I do lay some of the blame on the doctors that push drugs as a treatment . and the state to even allow tax money to be used in this way . But to each there own I know in my case I needed a doctor who did not care how bad I felt nor cared if I was puking my guts up there was no mercy nor pity shown and in that I learned what ever I was running from was easier dealt with that continuing to get high and running from that I was going to get clean before he would even think of trying to help me . and almost 15 years later it seems to have stuck granted I am and was an addict and ptsd is not the same thing , but how do you treat someone who is in a fog from what they are really feeling until you expose what is damaged or the cause of the problem ? How ever you get help if you need it and it works for you Id be happy to just know you got help rather than suffer alone or put your friends or loved ones through a load of crap they don't deserve good luck and god bless .

 

[Redmanss]

Link you to your mom

What are you, twelve?

 

[Maggot]

personally Id say no drugs are good drugs , running from a problem does not lessen that problem get help not high .

Your kind of missing the point. While I agree that careless use of anything to excape is foolish, some of these substances, used wisely, help to open doors of the mind/heart that were closed and buried through trauma. Once you can see and acknowledge the source of the problem it goes a long way to dealing with it.

Kind of like "You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free."

You cant get free from a problem until you know what the problem is.

It boils down to USE or ABUSE. One is good and helpful the other not.

 

[Fig]

I've seen too many lives wasted, damaged or thrown away because of drugs (marijuana included), to ever support recreational legalized use. Medically I can see a use, and support that. But just because "murica" & "Freedom"? Nope.

Society exists because of established laws/rules being in place. Those laws are usually rooted in the Bible (in this country), and what it has long held (and demonstrated) as rules to curb excesses. And before people get their panties in a wad, I'm not Bible thumping. I'm talking about basic tenets that extend further back than the Bible.

Funny how the Greco-Roman Decalogue is an almost verbal match (when translated) to the biblical 10 Commandments...but pre-dates the Bible by several centuries.

Apparently, long before organized, monotheistic religion existed, the wise people of old already knew that society needed some rules to protect people from their own vices...drugs have been, and always will be, one of those vices.

JMTCW...

Older than the Torah?!?!?

 

[MarinePMI]

Older than the Torah?!?!?

Honestly, I think they're based on older teachings, predating most claims of ownership/creation.

The Torah goes back to 600BC (or something around there). Stoicism goes back to 300BC, but implies in their writings (at least the literary philosophers) of the Decalogue already being several centuries old.

Like I said, my point wasn't to argue religion (or who claims to who invented what), only that some basic rules/laws are needed for society to function. If not, all you have is chaos and anarchy.

 

[Maggot]

Honestly, I think they're based on older teachings, predating most claims of ownership/creation.

The Torah goes back to 600BC (or something around there). Stoicism goes back to 300BC, but implies in their writings (at least the literary philosophers) of the Decalogue already being several centuries old.

Like I said, my point wasn't to argue religion (or who claims to who invented what), only that some basic rules/laws are needed for society to function. If not, all you have is chaos and anarchy.

There is really only one rule needed.

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Doesnt need to be religious to understand it, jsut consider that

"Every action has an equal and opposite reactions." and that should be sufficient.

Why do shit that is going to bring unwanted consequence? As Mr. Spock would say..."Thats not logical, Jim."

Yet we all do.

 

[MarinePMI]

There is really only one rule needed.

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Doesnt need to be religious to understand it, jsut consider that

"Every action has an equal and opposite reactions." and that should be sufficient.

Why do shit that is going to bring unwanted consequence? As Mr. Spock would say..."Thats not logical, Jim."

Yet we all do.

I hear what you're saying. but let me answer by asking a simple question. If one rule was all that was needed, why do we continue to need more than one (as has been demonstrated throughout history)?

To follow the "golden rule", it is a given assumption that it is built on (in addition) to the existing 10 Commandments found in the Old Testament. You can't have a "New" Testament, unless there is an "Old" Testament. The "golden rule" was (largely agreed by scholars) to be a softening of the Old Testament's harsh interpretations.

But I digress...

 

[Maggot]

I hear what you're saying. but let me answer by asking a simple question. If one rule was all that was needed, why do we continue to need more than one (as has been demonstrated throughout history)?

To follow the "golden rule", it is a given assumption that it is built on (in addition) to the existing 10 Commandments found in the Old Testament. You can't have a "New" Testament, unless there is an "Old" Testament. The "golden rule" was (largely agreed by scholars) to be a softening of the Old Testament's harsh interpretations.

But I digress...

Because we dont follow the one that counts.

I would reverse your order and say that the 10 are all built on the one.

-Font steal? Would you want to have your shit stolen?...Do unto others

-Dont fuck your neighbors wife? Would you wnat your neighbor to fuck your wife? Do unto others

Its not so much a 'softening, but rather a simplifying.

 

[MarinePMI]

LOL! This is an interesting derailed conversation, but I'd just say that the Old Testament predates the New Testament "golden rule", and so it's pretty logical that the societal structure already existed from the following of the old testament by the (then considered heretical) Jews, and that the "golden rule" derived from the New Testament, was built on that existing societal foundation.

But like I said, the Judeo-Christian faith was considered a fringe thing in that day. Ironically, (I believe it was) Seneca is widely suspected to have actually sat on the council of judges that over saw the trial of Jesus of Nazarene, as he was also a judge under Pontius Pilot's council.

And who thought history couldn't be...interesting.

at any rate, I think we're in violent agreement on the main points. The rest is semantics and perspective...

 

[Herb Stoner]

The potential of cannabis is still largely unknown but I think it is worth exploring. Someone mentioned Israel - they are way ahead of us on the research. In the US we have a lot of self-medicating which can be problematic. I do know vets that have had success with canabis as a part of guided therapy for PTSD.

The US, like other countries, has negatively stigmatized it for decades and the stigma still lingers in many areas. Too much of anything can be problematic but I know several highly successful people - CEOs, business leaders, doctors, etc. that enjoy it regularly - nowhere around their work or other key respnsibilities though. They are anything but the stereotypical "stoner".

I was still in SoCal full time when it went legal there and there was a lot of misinformation. One key thing was "the kids are going to get it! The reality is: It's already here. It's everywhere. If you wanted it back when I was in jr. high and high school in the 70s it was available then and it is now. I enjoyed it occaionally when I was younger and it never caused problems for me in any way.

I'm opposed to legalization however I would support decriminalization. Its a plant with relatively mild effects and far less a problem to our society as alcohol (also a drug) and many other things. With legalization comes government regulation and (heavy) taxation - something I generally don't like. I dont think there would be legal weed in a lot of states if the governments knew how to cut costs or lay off employees like a private company does when costs start growing ahead of revenues.

California had a robust medical cannabis industry for 20 years with a lot of small businesses involved (kind of a farmer's market approach where small groweres would supply area dispensaries). Once legalization hit a whole new regulatory department was formed and they laid in a three tier system very similar to post-prohibition alcohol regulation. This brought in the big investment and put a lot of small guys out of business or underground. The new cannabis companies are now cozied up to the legislators and lobby heavily. The government, now fatter and happier with the cannabis revenue, is more than willing to go after the small guys that were legal but may now be out of compliance.

Beyond cannabis, there is a lot going on in terms of initial success in research with hallucinogenics for PTSD and other things. This is, after all, where the original research with LSD was going after its discovery in 1946. Take your medicine, improve your mental heath, and have a good ride at the same time!

 

[Wading]

Your kind of missing the point. While I agree that careless use of anything to excape is foolish, some of these substances, used wisely, help to open doors of the mind/heart that were closed and buried through trauma. Once you can see and acknowledge the source of the problem it goes a long way to dealing with it.

Kind of like "You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free."

You cant get free from a problem until you know what the problem is.

It boils down to USE or ABUSE. One is good and helpful the other not.

An average weed smoke would say its useful against Cancer, ptsd and more. While it has its benefit, I think weed is not for everyone. ptsd or not. Some people get hooks but some are taking doses of it like a usual drug to achieve a better feel or appetite.

 

[MarinePMI]

The potential of cannabis is still largely unknown but I think it is worth exploring. Someone mentioned Israel - they are way ahead of us on the research. In the US we have a lot of self-medicating which can be problematic. I do know vets that have had success with canabis as a part of guided therapy for PTSD.

The US, like other countries, has negatively stigmatized it for decades and the stigma still lingers in many areas. Too much of anything can be problematic but I know several highly successful people - CEOs, business leaders, doctors, etc. that enjoy it regularly - nowhere around their work or other key respnsibilities though. They are anything but the stereotypical "stoner".

I was still in SoCal full time when it went legal there and there was a lot of misinformation. One key thing was "the kids are going to get it! The reality is: It's already here. It's everywhere. If you wanted it back when I was in jr. high and high school in the 70s it was available then and it is now. I enjoyed it occaionally when I was younger and it never caused problems for me in any way.

I'm opposed to legalization however I would support decriminalization. Its a plant with relatively mild effects and far less a problem to our society as alcohol (also a drug) and many other things. With legalization comes government regulation and (heavy) taxation - something I generally don't like. I dont think there would be legal weed in a lot of states if the governments knew how to cut costs or lay off employees like a private company does when costs start growing ahead of revenues.

California had a robust medical cannabis industry for 20 years with a lot of small businesses involved (kind of a farmer's market approach where small groweres would supply area dispensaries). Once legalization hit a whole new regulatory department was formed and they laid in a three tier system very similar to post-prohibition alcohol regulation. This brought in the big investment and put a lot of small guys out of business or underground. The new cannabis companies are now cozied up to the legislators and lobby heavily. The government, now fatter and happier with the cannabis revenue, is more than willing to go after the small guys that were legal but may now be out of compliance.

Beyond cannabis, there is a lot going on in terms of initial success in research with hallucinogenics for PTSD and other things. This is, after all, where the original research with LSD was going after its discovery in 1946. Take your medicine, improve your mental heath, and have a good ride at the same time!

There's a big difference in the quality and potency of weed from 20 years ago, compared to today.

 

[Herb Stoner]

There's a big difference in the quality and potency of weed from 20 years ago, compared to today.

Agreed

 

[timbrline]

I gotta go with a few others. Let’s not use the “PTSD” help as a reason to justify the fact you really want weed legalized. Two different issues and pretty clear the original question was more about legalizing than helping PTSD.

We have 22 suicides a day. Part of the PROBLEM in the system is guys reaching out for help and getting a handful of zanex or Prozac instead of root cause solutions and real help. That shit is a dependence spiral, problems don’t get fixed and they end with the same problems on top of a drug issue. Realize they made a mistake, stop the drugs, which is a horrible idea, and they are royally fucked then... suicides increase. Seen it more than once. Arbitrarily smothering ptsd issues with another downer substance doesn’t help the issues... it just stores them up.

So... if you just really want to burn a doobie for whatever reason you feel you need to, and think it should be legal, I could give a shit.

If the plan is to try and convince people that we should throw it on top of ptsd issues, to bury them, instead of fixing the problem and use that as a lever to fuck over vets needing real help and not a drug so you have one more argument to justify your burning desire legally munch a brownie... your not getting any help or support here.

You wanna help ptsd, then go get to doing some real time invested work with vets. You want to legalize weed, get a stick, some cardboard and write “macke da weed legel”... and stand on the street. Let’s not mix the two... that sucks.