Rifle Scopes What the pros use confusion

[morganlamprecht]

One glaring issue with newer/dabbling shooters is they don’t have the experience/knowledge of how to vet equipment and know what/how to diagnose/fix problems or errors that show up…unless they have someone to directly mentor them they’re likely going to have a steep learning curve

you can see it here every week with new threads on issues…u start stacking a cheaper scope on a cheaper rifle with limited shooter experience and knowledge and you have stack of potential errors to wade thru to figure out if what they’re doing is actually precision shooting at all

Someone could hand me a scope and with my rifles and equipment I could tell whether it works or not within a handful of rounds…someone putting a brand new/unknown scope on a new unknown rifle/ammo combo doesn’t have that luxury, it takes a while to get to that point

 

[Convex]

I certainly agree w/all of the above...

SWFA 5-20x50 SS HD 30mm Riflescope

SWFA 5-20x50 SS HD 30mm Riflescope Details SKU: SSHD520X50MQ Finish: Matte Reticle: MIL-Quad Tube Diameter (mm): 30 Elevation Knob: Exposed Target (.1 MIL) Windage Knob: Exposed Target (.1 MIL) Parallax Setting: Side Focus Focal Plane: First

www.swfa.com

This is what I came up with, is this in line w/this kind of scope pricewise

 

[morganlamprecht]

Yup that’s it

Plain reticle
Decent turrets
No zero stop
Decent glass

But a solid history of reliability (much better than other scopes in the $500-1k range over the long term) and good warranty support from swfa

 

[Misfit_]

One glaring issue with newer/dabbling shooters is they don’t have the experience/knowledge of how to vet equipment and know what/how to diagnose/fix problems or errors that show up…unless they have someone to directly mentor them they’re likely going to have a steep learning curve

you can see it here every week with new threads on issues…u start stacking a cheaper scope on a cheaper rifle with limited shooter experience and knowledge and you have stack of potential errors to wade thru to figure out if what they’re doing is actually precision shooting at all

Someone could hand me a scope and with my rifles and equipment I could tell whether it works or not within a handful of rounds…someone putting a brand new/unknown scope on a new unknown rifle/ammo combo doesn’t have that luxury, it takes a while to get to that point

That’s why you just have to balance it. Weight out the pros and cons of where you spend your money.

 

[stefan73]

as long as they're not together

I let them gingerly touch, is that ok?

 

[NiteQwill]

"As a shooter improves, the limitations of low cost tools become more obvious. Unless a shooter moved down to a class with restrictions, there is no point. Maybe post divorce or some other financial crash,?but no serious competitor purposely handicaps themselves for fun."....

At least from my point of view leave the competitors out, I was talking about folks who don't compete, the guys who shoot recreationally and as mentioned don't have a ton of money.

Assuming the top tier scopes used in competitions tend to be the most durable, and junk being junk, can quit the 1st day you buy it I wish there was a way to see if a scope "pops up" for the recreational shooter that is underpriced and is tougher than you'd think it'd be for the price.

Again, no junk.

The quote is fine, that its in quotes is obvious, and yes, I'm familiar w/the quote button. If U think something is wrong w/how I did it, simply ignore it.

The forum is 4 everybody, even the folks who don't care/aren't interested in competition.

But it gets U into a decent scope while U decide if U want to take the sport further spending more money or just shoot recreationally is what I would think.

You are VERY hard to follow and even harder to understand. I think you lack the comprehension and etiquette of an online forum. This is why people are not responding to you in kindness.

Just like this forum is for everyone, QUOTES are HELPFUL to EVERYONE.

 

[b6graham]

I let them gingerly touch, is that ok?

its 2023 man...it's all fair game

 

[Convex]

If you think that then ignore, can U read that?

 

[stefan73]

One glaring issue with newer/dabbling shooters is they don’t have the experience/knowledge of how to vet equipment and know what/how to diagnose/fix problems or errors that show up…unless they have someone to directly mentor them they’re likely going to have a steep learning curve

you can see it here every week with new threads on issues…u start stacking a cheaper scope on a cheaper rifle with limited shooter experience and knowledge and you have stack of potential errors to wade thru to figure out if what they’re doing is actually precision shooting at all

Someone could hand me a scope and with my rifles and equipment I could tell whether it works or not within a handful of rounds…someone putting a brand new/unknown scope on a new unknown rifle/ammo combo doesn’t have that luxury, it takes a while to get to that point

Well, back in the day we didn't have as many good options available or "knowingly" available (for those of us that remember before the internet). We see people currently suffering from as @TheHorta puts it "paralysis by analysis". They have a LOT more data points coming in and it can be a bit overwhelming for a beginner and even for some people with moderate experience. Skip a couple of years and the new flavor of the day is 6ARC or something else spicy. Back when I started the hottest thing out there was hot rodded Leupold's by Premier and 6PPC was the king of benchrest from what I can remember. I shot a friends 7-08 with a 20X Leupold worked by Premier for benchrest in the early 80's.

 

[NewsShooter]

You asked about what the "pros" are using and why some things are more popular than others. If you don't give a shit about it then why make the thread in the first place?

Where is the ignore button, this guy, I assume it's a guy in a basement asking his mommy for sandwiches, he only seems to jump it to denigrate something or someone. Don't think I've ever seen a positive post from him.

 

[Convex]

Scroll 2 the top of the page 2 the black bar at the top; opposite "Sniper's Hide" on the right, click ur name.

A pop up shows up, and "ignoring" is on the rt column.


You'll have to use it; trolls won't use the ignore button Bcuz that means they have to stop fucking w/you.

 

[Ronws]

"And to clarify what I like, is the ability to ignore people and not respond, whether there is a button or not. All I have to do if I don't like what someone says is ignore them and don't respond. Besides, in another 30 years or so, none of this will mean a damn thing for me. Or most of us."....

The way of the asshole is to not give that same respect back to folks w/another opinon or a suggestion which U can take or ignore.

Funny you should mention that. I am an asshole and do have, in fact, a certificate that awards me upgrade to complete asshole given to me in 1999 by my friend and workmate, Lee, who signed it as the AIC (Asshole In Charge.) My favorite quote of his:
"Illegitimus non carborundum."

 

[Long Range 338]

The quote is fine, that its in quotes is obvious, and yes, I'm familiar w/the quote button. If U think something is wrong w/how I did it, simply ignore it.

The forum is 4 everybody, even the folks who don't care/aren't interested in competition.

 

[Convex]

morganlamprecht​

Thanks for the heads up on the

SWFA 5-20x50 SS HD 30mm Riflescope​

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Where is the ignore button, this guy, I assume it's a guy in a basement asking his mommy for sandwiches, he only seems to jump it to denigrate something or someone. Don't think I've ever seen a positive post from him.

 

[sheepdog697]

What are you trying to get at?

If the scope tracks, has a usable reticle and you can see your target you can win with it. On the list what one should worry about trying to win a match, glass quality is way at the bottom. Almost every scope on the list is perfectly serviceable. You can show up to your first match with a TT or ZCO and come in last place, just like many before you who thought the same.

The #1 most used optic does not mean the #1 highest quality. I didn't think this needed to be said but here we are.

Its a list on whats used, and has debatable merit. The only people who care about this dumb shit, are people who don't shoot PRS and the like.

That last part….

 

[Curahee19]

Guys so which ones better TT or ZCO honest question

 

[Misfit_]

Guys so which ones better TT or ZCO honest question

Tangent

 

[Hegre]

Guys so which ones better TT or ZCO honest question

Whichever one you can get cheapest with a reticle you like.

 

[Shoots 700's]

I think the ZCO is better than the tangent only because I like the reticle choice better. I have zco , Kahles and Leopold. All work well. Choose what you like and what you can afford

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

Where is the ignore button, this guy, I assume it's a guy in a basement asking his mommy for sandwiches, he only seems to jump it to denigrate something or someone. Don't think I've ever seen a positive post from him.

It's just a dude who's a mediocre shooter at best (he got all kinds of mad when a dude doxxed him and his scores).

Happens every so often here. Some dude decides to talk about how much they shoot matches and such. Always behind an anonymous SN. Eventually people figure out who they are and they either move on or get permanently banned.

 

[CSTactical]

Guys so which ones better TT or ZCO honest question

It’s not an easy answer, it comes down to features and reticle selection.
-Richard
916-628-3490

 

[stefan73]

Guys so which ones better TT or ZCO honest question

I was a Currahee 04-07 when the BDE was formed back up at Campbell.

Better is a subjective opinion.
Do they track, yes, unless you get a defective one.

The rest is all subjective,
How the turrets feel.
What reticle options people like.
How the glass looks.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Guys so which ones better TT or ZCO honest question

Personal preference. Owned both and stuck with the zco for better eyebox and thicker reticle. Tangent has slightly better glass and handles mirage better. Both have very forgiving parallax and great turrets, with the edge to the tangent. For PRS I like the ZCO better but for ELR where you have more time to settle and get a perfect shot the mirage cutting and finer reticle in the tangent may be a better choice.

The honest answer is they both are so good hard to go wrong with either.

 

[Birddog6424]

Guys so which ones better TT or ZCO honest question

Yes.

 

[b6graham]

Yes.

but blue is my favorite color...damn XTR Pro

 

[ThePretzel]

Guys so which ones better TT or ZCO honest question

I own a Tangent and have done numerous side by side comparisons in all different conditions, and honestly ZCO vs TT is no different than the endless Schmidt vs NF debates everybody was having before these newer companies came out with better products. Neither is "better", it's legitimately entirely down to personal preference.

ZCO will have a brighter image with more contrast. Most folks feel like the TT has a more neutral color temperature to its image. Both of them are as good as it gets optically bthey just have different balances of color, contrast, and brightness that make the images have different "flavors" to them, so to speak.

Honestly the biggest differences you'll find between the scopes are in their reticle options, their turrets, and - of course - their prices. ZCO has the MPCT reticle lineup, TT has the Gen2XR and Gen3XR/Gen3XR Fine reticles (until recently TT was the only way to get a Horus reticle as well if that's what floats your boat). TT has tool-less re-zero, until recently ZCO was the only way to go to get locking turrets. If you want a 5-25 style scope it doesn't really matter which of them you pick, if you want a 3-15 your only option is TT and for a 4-20 the only option is ZCO (honestly I really like that ZCO 420). Until the TT735P comes out your only option for high magnification is the ZCO 840.

I bought a TT instead of a ZCO solely because of tool-less re-zero since I could only afford to purchase one top-quality scope (at the time of my purchase anyways) and wanted it to be easy to swap between and use on all of my different rifles. If I was going to buy a different scope for each rifle I'd absolutely have bought ZCO's instead, or if I wasn't sick and tired from the old-style Schmidt DT turrets and fiddling with allen keys trying to get the zero to properly line up I might have bought the ZCO instead anyways still just because they were/are substantially cheaper (I know they don't have the same issues with the zero lining up, I just was really tired of those tiny allen keys to re-zero).

 

[DocRDS]

WHy do the pros shoot certain brands and why are certain brands popular?

Its a giant game of follow the leader because we think "Dude uses brand X, and he is #1 so it must be brand X"

Case in point. Circa 1995:
Ditch the 1911 We all shoot Revolvers
Circa 2005: Ditch the Beretta We Shoot Glocks
Circa 2010: Ditch The Tupperware we shoot CZs and Tanfos
Circa 2015: STI BBY!!! Get URSelf A ReAlz GunZ
Circa 2020: Carry Optics Bitches....Get the Trijicon!! (I never get on board with the current trend)

Any of the top 100 scopes will be fine.

Vortex (GASP!), Leupold, Kahles, ZCO, TT, Nightforce, and your favorite brand which I forgot about.

I shit you not there are Savage Actions in F-Class Nationals.
Look at those equipment lists--there is always "that guy" doing something different.
Using the wrong powder (aka "not Varget")
Wrong Scope (US Optics)
Wrong round (anything 6.5 in PRS)

They do not seem to be bothered. I like TL3s over Impacts. Blasphemy!!!!! I just like the feel better.

Key difference is I don't think Imapcts are crap nor feel the need to denigrate them to justify my choice. I like my Vortex Scopes. They give a lot of bang for the Money. I like shooting 4064 Powder for 308. I don't need your approval.

300 Win Mag has a belt and is inferior to 300 PRC and 300 Norma. That deer was fucking offended. Oh wait NVM he was dead.

 

[TylerN]

... I might have bought the ZCO instead anyways still just because they were/are substantially cheaper ...

I was considering both awhile ago and went with a ZCO for the reticle. FYI, I don't think the price is substantially different (maybe 10% - 15% or so is my guess.) ZCO I believe sticks to MAP pricing and dealers can't discount below MAP; TT dealers can sell below MAP. Once priced out at dealers I wouldn't describe the price difference as being substantial.

 

[Long Range 338]

WHy do the pros shoot certain brands and why are certain brands popular?

Its a giant game of follow the leader because we think "Dude uses brand X, and he is #1 so it must be brand X"

Case in point. Circa 1995:
Ditch the 1911 We all shoot Revolvers
Circa 2005: Ditch the Beretta We Shoot Glocks
Circa 2010: Ditch The Tupperware we shoot CZs and Tanfos
Circa 2015: STI BBY!!! Get URSelf A ReAlz GunZ
Circa 2020: Carry Optics Bitches....Get the Trijicon!! (I never get on board with the current trend)

Any of the top 100 scopes will be fine.

Vortex (GASP!), Leupold, Kahles, ZCO, TT, Nightforce, and your favorite brand which I forgot about.

I shit you not there are Savage Actions in F-Class Nationals.
Look at those equipment lists--there is always "that guy" doing something different.
Using the wrong powder (aka "not Varget")
Wrong Scope (US Optics)
Wrong round (anything 6.5 in PRS)

They do not seem to be bothered. I like TL3s over Impacts. Blasphemy!!!!! I just like the feel better.

Key difference is I don't think Imapcts are crap nor feel the need to denigrate them to justify my choice. I like my Vortex Scopes. They give a lot of bang for the Money. I like shooting 4064 Powder for 308. I don't need your approval.

300 Win Mag has a belt and is inferior to 300 PRC and 300 Norma. That deer was fucking offended. Oh wait NVM he was dead.

I could stomach all the heresy right up until you threw in 4064, that’s crossing the line!!!

Actually you were wrong all the way down your list, don’t you know? LOL

 

[NiteQwill]

Currently own and have owned several ZCOs and TTs...

I like Tangent for the turrets, toolless zero, and mirage mitigation.

I like ZCO for the bright and big eyebox. It's really the best I've ever seen.

Parallax is similar on both.

Flip a coin.

I'm currently loving the JTAC reticle. Simple, open, and fast.

In either case, buy either one from a vendor here: @CSTactical or @MOUNTIC

 

[CSTactical]

Currently own and have owned several ZCOs and TTs...

I like Tangent for the turrets, toolless zero, and mirage mitigation.

I like ZCO for the bright and big eyebox. It's really the best I've ever seen.

Parallax is similar on both.

Flip a coin.

I'm currently loving the JTAC reticle. Simple, open, and fast.

In either case, buy either one from a vendor here: @CSTactical or @MOUNTIC

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Nites wife is putting vudoo curses on your whole crew now that the MSRP for the 7-35TT is out.

 

[Fig]

If we like lists....

Wyoming ELR Scopes & Mounts – What The Pros Use

A few weeks ago, I surveyed 100+ shooters who competed in this year’s Nightforce ELR Steel Challeng...

precisionrifleblog.com

Only some here like fists.

 

[ThePretzel]

I was considering both awhile ago and went with a ZCO for the reticle. FYI, I don't think the price is substantially different (maybe 10% - 15% or so is my guess.) ZCO I believe sticks to MAP pricing and dealers can't discount below MAP; TT dealers can sell below MAP. Once priced out at dealers I wouldn't describe the price difference as being substantial.

Once you get a best price quote from a dealer the price difference does usually end up being in that 10-15% range as you say there. The thing is, when you're dropping $4,000+ on a scope you're still talking a $500 difference or more between the two options in most cases without one of them clearly being better than the other - just different. Obviously it's not the $1,000+ difference you see in scope MSRP values, but it's still enough to be taken into consideration for most folks without unlimited resources.

 

[NateSavannah]

Guys so which ones better TT or ZCO honest question

they are both real good. Had both. Decided I like ZCO better. Love that big eye box. The colors and pop really do it for me. TT is great. Id like to look thru the new incoming TT 7-35 or whatever it is. But outside of that, all my future high end optic purchases will be ZCO.

 

[CSTactical]

Congratulations to @Sprayed99 on his NRL Hunter debut and win!!! Dan is running a Zero Compromise ZC527 M1 NLE from us
Dan and Jon Pynch were tied for first overall and Dan won on the Power Factor with his 6.5 PRC vs. 6.5CM

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

It's just a dude who's a mediocre shooter at best (he got all kinds of mad when a dude doxxed him and his scores).

Ain't nothing wrong with being a "mediocre shooter" at a PRS competition. I am trying to work my way up to being one someday, hopefully sooner rather than later.

 

[stefan73]

Ain't nothing wrong with being a "mediocre shooter" at a PRS competition. I am trying to work my way up to being one someday, hopefully sooner rather than later.

Some of us just don't have any matches nearby and/or schedules that support us. The nearby range we have is 700 yards.

 

[b6graham]

Congratulations to @Sprayed99 on his NRL Hunter debut and win!!! Dan is running a Zero Compromise ZC527 M1 NLE from us
Dan and Jon Pynch were tied for first overall and Dan won on the Power Factor with his 6.5 PRC vs. 6.5CM

View attachment 8096269
View attachment 8096270
View attachment 8096271

that's a pretty slow 6.5PRC

good to see Clayton in 3rd...running his 7SAW I'd guess knowing that's about what power factor is with mine

 

[Birddog6424]

Power Factor is the silliest tie breaker on the planet.

I think it should be a big dick contest.

 

[DocRDS]

Power Factor is the silliest tie breaker on the planet.

I think it should be a big dick contest.

I'd never win then!

I will say there is noticeable difference between like a Vortex PST and a Razor. After that I do have trouble seeing differences. The ZCO is pretty awesome, but is it twice a Razor? (Or luepold mk 5)

Of course I only shoot in bright sunlight at big ass targets, ymmv

Still not giving it back though....

 

[CSTactical]

I'd never win then!

I will say there is noticeable difference between like a Vortex PST and a Razor. After that I do have trouble seeing differences. The ZCO is pretty awesome, but is it twice a Razor? (Or luepold mk 5)

Of course I only shoot in bright sunlight at big ass targets, ymmv

Still not giving it back though....

When discussing a non-consumable that can potentially last you a lifetime it's more than worth it for many people.

We are talking about $4k-12k rifles that shoot $2-10 rounds, a new barrel every year or so, multi thousands more in related gear, time invested, ~$4-5ish/gallon gas, traveling hundreds of miles, hotels, practice, training etc....
Retail pricing for the popular examples (Yes, some people can get things for a song, dance and feet pics blah blah):
$2,099 Leupold MK5 HD 5-25 PR2
$2,999 Vortex Razor Gen 3 6-36
$2,499 Vortex Razor Gen 2 4.5-27
$3980 Zero Compromise Optic ZC527 5-27 M3X

That difference in price gets absorbed pretty easily in the grand scheme of things

 

[Rob01]

If you are paying $2500 for a Razor Gen 2 you need more help than a scope can give you lol

 

[CSTactical]

If you are paying $2500 for a Razor Gen 2 you need more help than a scope can give you lol

I'm listing MAP price for comparison, @Rob01 when am I getting a ZCO on order for you?

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

Ya, listing msrp of optics known to be sold much, much lower.....even from retailers.....isn't even worth bothering comparing.

That's just chin music.

ZCO sells for MAP and is pretty much the same across the board. Vortex can be had much, much cheaper and vortex doesn't bother with enforcing it.

For example, when comparing Vortex Razor Gen 3 and ZCO, you should be comparing about $2350 vs $3980.

And it's not just a few here and there selling gen 3's that cheap. It's pretty rampant.

 

[Rob01]

I'm listing MAP price for comparison, @Rob01 when am I getting a ZCO on order for you?

The cheap SOB gene runs deep in me. Maybe if I win powerball. Lol

 

[CSTactical]

The cheap SOB gene runs deep in me. Maybe if I win powerball. Lol

Well you hit me up if you're ever interested, I'd like to see your impressions compared to all the optics you bought recently

 

[Rob01]

Well you hit me up if you're ever interested, I'd like to see your impressions compared to all the optics you bought recently

You will be the first to know if I plan to buy a ZCO but I am pretty happy with this new Zeiss LRP S3. Between that and the Burris Pro I am pretty happy with my optics now. That's why I listed the XRS3 up to buy another Zeiss. LOL

 

[DocRDS]

The cheap SOB gene runs deep in me. Maybe if I win powerball. Lol

Me too. Especially when I don't really see the difference. But hey it's a free market, and I have no qualms if others think otherwise. My eyes are old (along with the rest of me).

I see it in a lot of fields where you hit diminishing returns. Sometimes I'm very happy with pretty good.

And sometimes you take your bonus money and deck that bad boy out so you can tell that money grabbing leftist asshole at Capital One you used their precious diversity dollars to buy a top tier gun


Hypothetically speaking of course....