when will berger, sierra, hornady, etc release 25 cal bullets?

[257 Blackjack]

I'm not tracking with the "ideal geometry" concept. 25 caliber itself doesn't have any magic BC properties that give it a better weight/BC ratio. Larger caliber bullets will have better BC when scaled for weight. But beyond that the only thing you could attempt to claim is "I designed a superior bullet shape with better BC than Hornady/Sierra/etc".

As far as being in a PRS/NRL sweet spot for recoil, I'm not sure it is for the majority of shooters. Most guys are 6mm, with a strong trend towards lighter recoiling variants. The upper end of 6mm recoil would be a hot load in a 6 Creed running a DTAC, but most guys choose to run smaller cases, lower velocities, etc. Realistically, your recoil with a 131gr bullet going 2925fps is MORE than a conservative 6.5x47 140gr load going 2750fps (but better ballistics). Alternatively you could do a DTAC at 3050 fps from a 6 Creed and match the performance of the 131, and do it with with noticeably less recoil (but worse barrel life than the 25 cal).

Ultimately it's another rung on the sliding scale of ballistics/recoil/barrel life. And a claim of "Goldilocks" is in the eye of the beholder.

Let me try to make that statement more clear. I decided that FOR ME the recoil of 130-140 grain projectiles at 3000-3125 fps was all I wanted in a match rfile. Taking that bullet mass and a certain speed bandwidth resulting in a certain amount of recoil I knew I needed to see which diameter would result in the highest performing projectile. This coincided very near 257.

I'm not going to get lost in the weeds about surface area:mass but you at once said 25 cal does not have any special place in that range but also state the heavier you go the BC increases. I had previously stated that 25 cal allows for enough mass to have a great BC but simultaneously doesn't prohibit muzzle velocity due to being too heavy for non-magnum short action cases.

I can factually state that the 131 ACE is more efficient than Hornady, Berger, and most Sierra's in the right circles, but due to the attitudes in this thread it's not the place to be doing so, despite the facts of performance and form factor.

Matches have gotten shorter over time as the 6 grew in popularity and hits were not being scored or seen at long ranges and 6mm is generally the king for how matches are shot now, but we didn't design and execute this business to beat 6mm at short to medium range trajectory. I have a few killer 6mm designs we will eventually make if other MFGs do not, but that is for another day.

The high performance 25 cal bullets that exist and will exist in the future will blend the barrel life of large diameter calibers and available BC with the speed of a lighter bullet.

Considering performance out of a short action vs recoil, 25 cal is and will be in the Goldie Locks Zone for hit probability and increased energy at longer ranges to 1500-1700 yds and a great low recoil high performance for low recoil medium game hunting to ethical ranges. These statements are simply based on performance #'s.

Define balanced performance however you want.

For me, 0.345 G7 at 3050 fps in 2.880" magazine using standard boltface cases with 10 lbs of recoil and higher kinetic energy than any 6.5 standard bolt face short action - that is quite indicative of balanced performance or a Sweet Spot.

If it's another notch on the sliding scale, it's quite a decent notch for hunting and for fun shooting steel to over 3/4 of a mile.

 

[RTH1800]

X

 

[257 Blackjack]

^^^^^
This.

Sheldon,

What you are missing is the same thing we miss when we question the logic of socialism.

The leaders know it’s all bullshit. The true purpose is not a better caliber. The purpose is to get between the useful idiots and the money. Just like socialism.

Again nothing wrong with the cartridge. Just the foolish claims of superiority.

RTH,

Your position is clear and the manner of your discourse is not contributory. Instead of speaking in generalities why don't you pick a parent cartridge or cartridges, determine which bullets to look at, and define some realistic velocity bandwidths for actual comparison instead of continuing with squabbling and tossing derogatory remarks around.

I don't mind running the numbers. They usually work out in our favor lol.

In a growing list of your judgements about what we are doing, despite them being far off from the truth, I must say that I did not start this project to separate fools from their money as you insist.

I did it because a few years ago I saw what the math showed 25 can do. I'll still produce quantities of high BC 25 cal even if the market for it "flatlines" or whatever terminology you assigned to that remark.

It's easier for me to make a lot more money doing what I primarily do, than the uphill climbs and hurdles we've had to manage getting Blackjack Bullets and high performance 25 cal off the ground (even though sales are outpacing our goals or hopes).

I've got quite a few other things to do than squabble - if someone wants to discuss actual ballistics or comparisons I can devote a bit of time to drawing up the #'s and graphs.

We truly appreciate all the interest and support from the target and hunting community and things are really taking off. For the skeptics, cynics, and critics, we can circle back over the years and check back on these predictions and opinions.

Mj

 

[Sheldon N]

I decided that FOR ME the recoil of 130-140 grain projectiles at 3000-3125 fps was all I wanted in a match rfile.

That's good, everyone has their choices. I've decided that for me the recoil of a 105 or 115 in the 2800 to 2950 range is all I want in a match rifle.

If I want to shoot to 1500-1700 yards I'll just spin my 7 SAUM barrel. 180 ELD-M's at 2950 fps from a short action are a compelling option. Besides, who cares about recoil when you're shooting prone?

 

[RTH1800]

X

 

[spife7980]

I don’t think he’s saying it’s magic. I think he’s saying he thinks it’s the perfect compromise.

 

[257 Blackjack]

257 guy.

How are we going to find you in 10 years? You don’t even post your name even in the PM you sent me.

Rather than play a game of computer magic with your bogus BC numbersI suggest you simply explain how changing the diameter of a cylindrical object up .013 or down .007
makes it superior to both? Just step back and draw us the big picture. Save the fake BC’s for your ad’s.

It’s either magic or bullshit. Please clarify. Otherwise, an identically designed bullet would improve as caliber increased. If bullet design was the only improvement why change calibers? Just design a better .244 or .264 bullet. If recoil is the issue, why not simply use a slightly heavier barrel?

That is why I call it marketing hype. Again, nothing wrong with .257, just as nothing wrong with the .244 or .264.

If you scaled up our 131 ACE it would be 142 gr 0.264 and carry 0.350 G7, which does not suck. Scale down to 0.243 it would be a 0.326 G7 and 111 grains, which does not suck. The 6mm print we have is not 111 grains, but we won't get to it for a couple of years.

Perhaps the components of a bullet's design have an effect on external ballistics.

Instead of waiting years to see how 25 cal progresses, how about I just post a full length video of our Oehler 89 testing in addition to the full write-up? I don't mind providing actual data.

We want our shooters to hit small targets a long ways away as often as possible.

 

[RTH1800]

X

 

[BLKWLFK9]

How is it bogus BC numbers when you have a ton of customers proving that they had to actually use a higher BC value to get their dope to line up? Black Jack advertised a lower BC than what reality is showing. That is contrary to what Nosler and the likes have done in the past. What is your actual beef? If its b/c you think he's fabricating the BC of the bullet, there are other threads with plenty of people shooting that bullet that will tell you otherwise. You are very combative in your statements. You sound hurt.

 

[maverickasu]

They will release them about the time I get my high bc .204 bullets... this side of never for the big companies

 

[Tucker301]

Yawn - Make your points without being personal.
It's possible and it even makes you look like an adult.
I'll check back later to see what we've learned.
You can edit older posts - Hint.

 

[RTH1800]

Post removed.

 

[Milo 2.5]

Why do you quote my post then fail to address a single question in it?

Given the same case design and capacity, ballistic calculations should be linear. How can something in between be superior to both?

Your data will always show your caliber to be the best. You control input. If it does not support your position, you simply tweak input until it does.

You often mention shooting and hunting in passing. I suspect you have very little expirence with either.

Again, don’t think I am saying your cartridge is inferior to 6 or 6.5 calibers. It is simply redundant.

First, let me say, some of your comments needed to be said, a lot of koolaid, and a fair amount of grandstanding involved with this bullet. I'm no case or bullet designer, but you have to admit there are a select number of SA 6-6.5 cases where a high bc 25 cal bullet can be a drop in fit and work. X47, XC, Creed, SLR, any case that will allow the bullet in a magazine. Of coarse it will work in a 25-06 too. Also, opening the mouths of BR variants may be really productive also, as we've seen in the past. Whether they handle the extra 15gr of bullet with a bigger bore remains to be seen, what you or I want from a case becomes irrelevant.
Now, with overbores like the SAUM, WSM, PRC, etc..., now you're just building barrel burners, like bangin fat chicks on the sly, fun for a short time.
I'm with Sheldon on whether how serious of a contender it will be in competition, if a heavier bullet is needed, a lot of choices, and now this bullet could be redundant.
If they could be made affordable, a 100gr 6mm lathe turned solid would most likely outdo this bullet for practical purposes, or a 130gr turned 6.5.
Shooters like new stuff, like to have their names associated with new, most never admit to mistakes made either, also like to make bold claims or predictions. Heck the ZC scope was the best on the market before it hit the market, lol
A lot of shooters will try this route, that is a given, how many stay with it remains to be seen.
I'm not a ground floor guy, I like friends to try first, then I can either laugh or join, I've been stuck with piles of crap collecting dust that were touted as better than canned beer.

OH, I like your posts, why I quoted you!!!!

 

[RTH1800]

Was not addressed to you. It was addressed to the “enthused” bullet promoter. Sorry.

I have seen hundreds of things like this come and go. I also have a pile of dust collectors.

For some reason bullet and cartridge designers are prone to making amazingly exaggerated claims. Many make no sense.

I have seen a guy take a 6.5 284 case, neck it up to .284 ( the actual parent case) then make startling claims about performance that the original never matched. Cartridge and bullet designers are not the most objective folks.

I think your post are logical as well.
Thank you.

 

[Milo 2.5]

Was not addressed to you. It was addressed to the “enthused” bullet promoter. Sorry.

I think your post are logical as well.
Thank you.

LOl, I understood, I have smarts real good ya know

 

[Sheldon N]

I'm with Sheldon on whether how serious of a contender it will be in competition, if a heavier bullet is needed, a lot of choices, and now this bullet could be redundant.

The real reason it won't be a serious contender in competition is fairly practical.

Cost of tooling up for a new caliber. Dies, reloading/measuring tools, starting from scratch with new brass, etc.
Harder to find barrel blanks on the shelf in the twist/contour you want. More likely to have to wait.
Single source supplier for components. Either have to stock up or hope they have more later when you run out.
Only one bullet choice. Your particular barrel doesn't like the 131? There is no plan B.

Which goes back to the question OP had "When will Berger Sierra Hornady Etc release alternative high BC 25 cal options?" with the likely answer of not anytime soon. Sort of a catch 22... Market's not big enough for the big manufacturers to jump in. Market won't grow because the big manufacturers aren't involved.

 

[Milo 2.5]

The real reason it won't be a serious contender in competition is fairly practical.

Cost of tooling up for a new caliber. Dies, reloading/measuring tools, starting from scratch with new brass, etc.
Harder to find barrel blanks on the shelf in the twist/contour you want. More likely to have to wait.
Single source supplier for components. Either have to stock up or hope they have more later when you run out.
Only one bullet choice. Your particular barrel doesn't like the 131? There is no plan B.

Which goes back to the question OP had "When will Berger Sierra Hornady Etc release alternative high BC 25 cal options?" with the likely answer of not anytime soon. Sort of a catch 22... Market's not big enough for the big manufacturers to jump in. Market won't grow because the big manufacturers aren't involved.

Oh yeah, plus Sierra may have taken themselves out of the market from the start, no different than with the dtac.
Berger still cannot meet production demands after the move to cure all ills, lol, can't see them entering anytime soon.
Plus, there seems to be little to no interest on the BR side of things.

 

[Lesco Brandon]

Have you actually shot any of these to a mile? If so, how about in wind? In calcs, light bullets look good, wind disrupts vertical flight, especially in light bullets.

I use Hornadys 4DOF calculator which is dead nuts accurate and accounts for cross wind lift etc.
Respectfully, I was a skeptic. I thought my buddy was full of shit because he had been talking a bout a .25 high BC bullet being needed for years. I looked at data and quickly changed my mind. I can argue about marketing bull shit and grandstanding but I can’t argue with data. Some say the manufacturer is skewing the data because he is in control however there are several independent reports verifying this data. Unless there is a conspiracy theory in which shooters are saying the bullet performs better then it does, I choose to believe the data. Let’s look at how we as a group react to items related to shooting that don’t impress us. We tear them apart and start threads complaining and warning others. If I paid $700 for a barrel to shoot ONE bullet, 500 Peterson brass, and 2000 blackjack bullets and this fucking round sucks I will be bitching trust me.
Plug this bullet into whatever calculator you want and compare it. Look at DATA. Put emotions aside.
Ok, a 7SAUM can shoot a mile... what’s the cost for one round vs my 25CM? Now what’s your elevation and windage? I completely understand hesitation and I strongly advocate for conversations like this because it allows us to look at different perspectives.
Let’s keep up the intelligent conversations.

 

[RTH1800]

Long way of saying no, I have not shot it to a mile.

 

[Milo 2.5]

I use Hornadys 4DOF calculator which is dead nuts accurate and accounts for cross wind lift etc.
Respectfully, I was a skeptic. I thought my buddy was full of shit because he had been talking a bout a .25 high BC bullet being needed for years. I looked at data and quickly changed my mind. I can argue about marketing bull shit and grandstanding but I can’t argue with data. Some say the manufacturer is skewing the data because he is in control however there are several independent reports verifying this data. Unless there is a conspiracy theory in which shooters are saying the bullet performs better then it does, I choose to believe the data. Let’s look at how we as a group react to items related to shooting that don’t impress us. We tear them apart and start threads complaining and warning others. If I paid $700 for a barrel to shoot ONE bullet, 500 Peterson brass, and 2000 blackjack bullets and this fucking round sucks I will be bitching trust me.
Plug this bullet into whatever calculator you want and compare it. Look at DATA. Put emotions aside.
Ok, a 7SAUM can shoot a mile... what’s the cost for one round vs my 25CM? Now what’s your elevation and windage? I completely understand hesitation and I strongly advocate for conversations like this because it allows us to look at different perspectives.
Let’s keep up the intelligent conversations.

Sorry, I do not have to plug anything into a ballistic app, I've been shooting ELR for 9 yrs with different calibers, today I shoot as far as I can with 6mm bullets.
I just know from experience shooting lighter bullets at distance, all goes well if the bullet is still stable and winds are steady or non existent.
When winds vari, or gust, the first thing you lose is the ability to hold vertical, you can even get your wind call right as wind picks up quickly, but accounting for a 3ft vertical dispersions becomes tough.
My 6 Dasher is an asskicker at 1500, even in wind, at 1600, in the same winds, it now becomes a crap shoot, and chasing your misses is comical. < This is all I am trying to say to you. Sometimes real world experiences trump paper.

 

[Lesco Brandon]

Long way of saying no, I have not shot it to a mile.

I look forward to crushing you at a match

 

[RTH1800]

Short way of changing the subject.

 

[Lesco Brandon]

Sorry, I do not have to plug anything into a ballistic app, I've been shooting ELR for 9 yrs with different calibers, today I shoot as far as I can with 6mm bullets.
I just know from experience shooting lighter bullets at distance, all goes well if the bullet is still stable and winds are steady or non existent.
When winds vari, or gust, the first thing you lose is the ability to hold vertical, you can even get your wind call right as wind picks up quickly, but accounting for a 3ft vertical dispersions becomes tough.
My 6 Dasher is an asskicker at 1500, even in wind, at 1600, in the same winds, it now becomes a crap shoot, and chasing your misses is comical. < This is all I am trying to say to you. Sometimes real world experiences trump paper.

That’s a long way of saying I rather continue to spit stupidity then look at actual data that will prove me wrong.

 

[RTH1800]

Some people regard empirical data above computer games. Sort of feel like bullet impacts matter more than theory. Foolish I know, but some folks are just that way.

 

[woodlandshooter]

A 25-06 ELR setup would be cool. But thats about all.

 

[Milo 2.5]

That’s a long way of saying I rather continue to spit stupidity then look at actual data that will prove me wrong.

What exactly did I say that was wrong? Electric cars look good on paper too, driving one from ND to Texas may be a friggin pain in the ass.
You should grow the fuck up before calling me stupid. So far anyone who has disagreed with you is stupid according to yourself.

 

[RTH1800]

Milo,

Be careful or they will cry to the mods.

 

[Milo 2.5]

Milo,

Be careful or they will cry to the mods.
For some unknown reason they are on protected status.

Well thanks, I had not said anything wrong until I was called stupid. I give 2 shits about 25 cal bullets at the present time. I stated some obvious facts, as have others. If the bullet fails or survives, so be it.
When punks cannot decipher that you are not taking shit to a personal level, it's on them, not me.
Oh yeah, I kind of figured someone was whining, lol

 

[RTH1800]

It’s odd. I actually like .25 caliber rifles. Have a 250 Sav AI on a Borden K action now. Shoot it a good bit.

I have never seen that it holds great advantage over my various 6mm or .264 caliber rifles as related to caliber.

I would guess I have fired 40,000 rounds out of 25 caliber rifles from 25/20 to .257 Weatherby. I realize that is nothing compared to playing on a computer about them but oh well. Live and learn.

Somehow I get the impression that the fan boys and developer have a lot of computer time and very little hunting expirence or trigger time.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Oops. I guess I didn't read the previous warning.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

It’s odd... I would guess I have fired 40,000 rounds out of 25 caliber rifles from 25/20 to .257 Weatherby. I realize that is nothing compared to playing on a computer about them but oh well. Live and learn.

40,000? Really? Lol.

 

[RTH1800]

Yes, really. Not sure why you find that funny.?
Off the top of my head I can recall 4-6 .257 Robert’s rifles. That many or more in .250 Savage. Several 25/20’s that I shot a a good bit. Had a 25/06 that I started shooting in ‘66 or ‘67. Went through several barrels. A .257 Weatherby on a Winchester 70 action that went through 7or 8 barrels but those were only good for 7-900 rds.
Yes, 40,000 might be conservative.
I did not have a computer to tell me how much smarter than everyone else I was but there was a 1000 yard range out the back door.

 

[Lesco Brandon]

Sorry, I do not have to plug anything into a ballistic app, I've been shooting ELR for 9 yrs

That’s what is fucking stupid. I have no idea how you can sit here and say that your knowledge is superior than the piles of data saying saying this bullet out performs any 6.5 or 6mm. The other stupid thing you said is that a bullet is a cylinder. You’re entitled to your openion. I actually said I welcome intelligent conversations and debates. Bring something intelligent to the table. Saying you do not have to look at data because you have been shooting for nine years is not intelligent. Balistitions at Hornaday have been eating living and breathing bullets for longer than you’ve been alive and they still use data .

 

[Milo 2.5]

That’s what is fucking stupid.

Of coarse I needed a firing solution, I do not need an app to know you do not know what you are talking about. When you get a chance to shoot to a mile, let us know how you did.

 

[Milo 2.5]

That’s what is fucking stupid. I have no idea how you can sit here and say that your knowledge is superior than the piles of data saying saying this bullet out performs any 6.5 or 6mm. The other stupid thing you said is that a bullet is a cylinder. You’re entitled to your openion. I actually said I welcome intelligent conversations and debates. Bring something intelligent to the table. Saying you do not have to look at data because you have been shooting for nine years is not intelligent. Balistitions at Hornaday have been eating living and breathing bullets for longer than you’ve been alive and they still use data .

I wasn't the one who mentioned cylinder. You want to argue, get your facts right. And just who designated that you will be the one who will welcome ANY conversation, intelligent or not? This is a public forum, anyone can chime in at any time.
Plus, I never said anything about whether this bullet would or would not out perform any 6-6.5 bullet. I never mentioned a single bullet in any of my posts. What I said was, light bullets do not fair as well as what your app is predicting in winds, that is all.
One more time, grow up.

 

[Lesco Brandon]

I wasn't the one who mentioned cylinder. You want to argue, get your facts right. And just who designated that you will be the one who will welcome ANY conversation, intelligent or not? This is a public forum, anyone can chime in at any time.
Plus, I never said anything about whether this bullet would or would not out perform any 6-6.5 bullet. I never mentioned a single bullet in any of my posts. What I said was, light bullets do not fair as well as what your app is predicting in winds, that is all.
One more time, grow up.

So you are smarter then the entire team of engineers who developed the app. Congratulations. In my experience the app is dead on nuts with whatever I choose to shoot. Do you personally have any experience with their 4DOF app?
And I am actually sorry for confusing you with the imbecile who said bullets were a cylinder. If you live in Ohio I would buy you a beer and meet you at a range and have you personally shoot my rifle 1 mile, probably not in that order. Cheers.
I am happy to see a small business trying to do something positive for the shooting community. It pisses me off when people take a dump on them without ever looking at the hard facts but rather placing their personal believes before hard-core data.

 

[kthomas]

I don’t think he’s saying it’s magic. I think he’s saying he thinks it’s the perfect compromise.

Which is subjective. This "perfect compromise" is going to be perfect for a small group of people.

I think it's great that people are coming out with new stuff, I really do.

Personally, I don't see the .25 doing anything for ME that my 6BRA or 6.5 Creedmoor doesn't do.

Honestly, I would rather play with a .22BRA than a .25 cartridge. But I appreciate that new stuff is coming out.

 

[257 Blackjack]

It's quite obvious there's a tendency here to not look at data, ballistics, etc and focus on status quo with a few folks.

That's not our deal at all. Forward and then in the future when we can afford to do more of what we want to do, forward again. 25 Cal and otherwise.

Regarding the point that components will be hard to get, that's simply not true.

We have over 450 blanks arriving in the next 8-10 weeks, and we will be scaling up to about 800 for the second half of this year.

There will be at least 750,000 more bullets arriving over the next 9 months. 500,000 131 ACEs and 250,000 of the second bullet.

we are working out details with distributors in the 100,000's because many folks see where this is going.

Regarding the baseless claims that we have tweaked data or are pushing BS numbers, it's simply false and to anyone that has spent time looking around, this type of talk only makes you look bitter. It has happened in the past by major manufacturers and some folks hold it against a few honest guys that hold their official BC 0.015 lower than the shooters say it is, lol.

Some of the best shooters in the US have shown the BC to run 0.340-0.350 G7 to 1320 yds and even out to 1600 yards. It's in many places on FB and other forums if you just have the actual motivation to look. One of the best trainers in the US called me and will be shooting these within a week or two. He will give his feedback in due time. If he loves it great. If he doens't great. Will the ballistics be the same whether or not he loves it - Yes.

If the primary motivation is to be derogatory and non-contributory with your discourse, it's on full display.

As I've said before, define which cartridges you want to look at, which bullets, define the speed windows for those cartridges and I will run them in AB Analytics.

The numbers are easy. Numbers are good.

Just got these pics in from an excited shooter. 400 yards from a 25 BR, lol. This little guy is only running 2670 fps for accuracy (2745 showed a little pressure), but seeing a guy thrilled and excited to try stuff out makes my day. Makes all the energy, time, and $$$ worth every minute and red cent.

 

[Sheldon N]

Just got these pics in from an excited shooter. 400 yards from a 25 BR, lol. This little guy is only running 2670 fps for accuracy (2745 showed a little pressure), but seeing a guy thrilled and excited to try stuff out makes my day.

Ha, that actually looks like a fun little round. Ballistics for wind drift are right in there with a Dasher DTAC, touch more recoil and a touch more energy on target. Big bullet going so slow it would be super easy to watch trace. Bet it's got forever barrel life too.

I could see running something like that in PRS.

 

[257 Blackjack]

Ha, that actually looks like a fun little round. Ballistics for wind drift are right in there with a Dasher DTAC, touch more recoil and a touch more energy on target. Big bullet going so slow it would be super easy to watch trace. Bet it's got forever barrel life too.

I could see running something like that in PRS.

This is from a brand new Lilja 3 Groove. Shooter builds a lot of guns. He expects it to speed up a bit but he's quite happy.

His intention was to make an easy brass prep, easy loading, and very low recoiling rifle with great barrel life. For his purposes this little 25 BR will fit the bill.

I need a little more speed lol but different strokes for different folks.

We do have some cats that are spinning up 25 Dashers soon too. I don't have the time for a 25 dasher but i'm glad there's guys out there willing to check it out.

 

[RTH1800]

But wait, there’s more...

 

[abn31c]

At some point, a guy puts up his own money so that I can have another bullet option. The fact that it is a .25 is icing on the cake for me. Thank you!!!
I remember having to make my own 6.5 creedmoor brass not that long ago, alot of naysayers then too.

 

[Lesco Brandon]

But wait, there’s more...

Bye for a while.

 

[RTH1800]

Jesse,

Please provide documentation that you have authority to supervise content on this post. If unable to do so I will continue to state facts.

The fact that you are heavily invested is irrelevant to me.

I’m sure you like your .257 caliber rifle. Congratulations, it’s likely just as good as a similarly specked .244 and almost as good as a similarly constructed .264 caliber rifle.

By "ignor" I decipher that to be a form of the word ignore? If that is correct you are incorrect. I am all about facts. I am not going to accept the sales hype as fact.

Tell us more about your expirence shooting it at a mile on your Xbox please. Also please give us more information you have “straight from Hornady” via your high level connections.

 

[Tucker301]

A warning was posted. Now people have to go on vacations. So very avoidable.

 

[Bear24]

@rth1800 ,

It's reasonable to doubt a manufacture provided BC number in this industry since many bullet manufactures have inflated their numbers for years. However they can't get away with that as easily any more since technology has progressed in chronographs, rangefinders, ballistic calculators and optics as well as other tools that have become more readily available and less expensive to the public.

However if you look around just a little there are plenty of shooters that have built a rifle and bought bullets on their own dime that state the .330 G7 published by Blackjack is very conservative. If they thought they had gotten played by "sales hype" they would be shouting it from the rooftops. However, their reports are quite opposite of that.

Operation Quarter Lord, the 25 Creedmoor

A custom rifle project creating one of the first 25 Creedmoor rifles

coldboremiracle.com

post #52 and following: on the "25 cal for comps" Thread here on SH

@cwinner
"I spun up a 25 Creedmoor (1:17.25 Krieger )a couple weeks ago and can tell you guys this new 131 25 bullet is legit! Was able to reach 3,050fps easily with H4350 and lapua brass and my initial validation yielded a G7 BC slightly higher than their published .330, I was closer .350 in my kestrel out to 1,680yds. I adjusted to BC in Shooter to .360 G7 and was pretty close, more fine tuning is yet to come.

Here's a quick look at the results of my initial validation out to 900 yds with both predicted and validated drops

I'm can agree with most comments here as I've shot both 6.5&6's quite a bit and am hoping this 257 performs more consistently than I've seen from my 6mm's which seem to shoot great until the drop 50-100fps on you for no apparent reason!

Time will tell but it's definitely a fun project and bullets are now readily available"


"Did some more validation today, basically confirmed my previous thoughts...... would up using a banded BC is my shooter app on iPhone to line everything up nicely all the way to 1925 @ 18.3Mil


As for The Kestrel..... .350G7 is working great"

 

[257 Blackjack]

Another discussion brought up the possibility of Overbore with some cartridges.

Here is a small snapshot of an updated Overbore Index with 25x47L, 25 Creed, 25-260 or 25 SLR, and you can clearly see 25-06 and 25x284 are HOT! Fun but HOT!

Figured I would drop this here so SH folks might have it at their disposal.

 

[257 Blackjack]

TRIGGER has a 4 page spot on 25 Cal with a great writeup and a show of what other loads a guy can run in terms of lighter bullets with resultant velocities from 25 Creed.

Overall a good introduction of high performance 25 cal to the mass market and a positive mention of Richard Mann running 25 Creed a few years back for short to medium range game purposes.

About 1 minute after this was announced a second Mag sent me a message to line out a cartridge / cartridges overview and a rifle MFG sent me a message about 30 minutes after that...

The target referenced in this second picture regarding the 0.330 G7 as "Conservative" was at 1037 yds.

I knew a writer had a rifle and would release something this year but had no idea of the actual release date or focus of the story. A great surprise during a busy day!

These are available at Walmart, Bass Pro, Cabelas, Grocery Stores, etc.

Our 2 year goal was magazines and our 5 year goal was a factory rifle in high performance 25 Cal. It's been 8 months since brand launch (many years in development), but it appears both of these goals will be a reality within the first year to 18 months of market operations.

: >

The basic question on the Factory Rifle is whether to rekindle the nostalgic 25-06 in 1:7.5" and allow the help of factory ammo to help justifiy the purchase for some folks or go All In with 25 Creed in the first factory rifle. I'm kind of a BOTH guy so we will see what happens.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

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[Cote0321]

How in the world do I put this bullet into 4DOF? I clicked the ”don’t see your bullet” and tried the BC calculator but I must be blind deaf or dumb because I can’t figure out how to enter any bullet info/measurements