when will berger, sierra, hornady, etc release 25 cal bullets?

[Scwalker83]

If you scaled up our 131 ACE it would be 142 gr 0.264 and carry 0.350 G7, which does not suck. Scale down to 0.243 it would be a 0.326 G7 and 111 grains, which does not suck. The 6mm print we have is not 111 grains, but we won't get to it for a couple of years.

Perhaps the components of a bullet's design have an effect on external ballistics.

Instead of waiting years to see how 25 cal progresses, how about I just post a full length video of our Oehler 89 testing in addition to the full write-up? I don't mind providing actual data.

We want our shooters to hit small targets a long ways away as often as possible.

Sierra has a 110 smk that has a posted bc by sierra of .617 @ 2600 fps and above .605 @ between 1900 and 2600 fps .580 @ 1900 fps and below. Seems decently close in terms of performance to the theoretical 6mm blackjack spoken about above. I'm shooting them now in a dasher and have shot them in an xc with good luck. Could not get them to run in 3x 6 creedmoors.

Using Same thing with 230 smk, .51 x 800g1 = 408 g7 which with some rough math is what a basic scaled up 131 blackjack would be if it was 30 caliber. +/- a percent or so.

Given that they are very similar, it seems that you and sierra have a very slippery design on your hands.

 

[BLKWLFK9]

heard through the grape vine that hornady is going to be jumping on to the high bc .257 train.

I know berger is working on one, but this was the 1st ive heard of hornady.

anyone have any info on it?

 

[Dai Bando]

Make the switch to 6, 6.5 and 7mm and get over it.

The .257 and .277” shit will never be anything but hangers on.

 

[BLKWLFK9]

Make the switch to 6, 6.5 and 7mm and get over it.

The .257 and .277” shit will never be anything but hangers on.

i already have all of what you suggested. The black jack proves to the contrary to your point. IJS. They've already been proven to be what they're advertised as. 6.5 mils to 1k at sea level out of a creedmoor isn't just something to scoff at.

 

[abn31c]

Make the switch to 6, 6.5 and 7mm and get over it.

The .257 and .277” shit will never be anything but hangers on.

Huh, tell the heads on my wall that .....
You win stupid for today, congratulations......

 

[Scwalker83]

Ugh, a 6 creed does it with 110 smk with less recoil? If you push it hard I bet you can get to 6 mils and probably still have less recoil.

 

[BLKWLFK9]

Ugh, a 6 creed does it with 110 smk with less recoil? If you push it hard I bet you can get to 6 mils and probably still have less recoil.

More wind drift, less energy on target, less barrel life (not that life really matters honestly) than the 25cm. The recoil difference is a non issue.

 

[Scwalker83]

Sea level 6creed 59f, 29.92hg, 0% humidity 2.5 height over bore, @3100 w110 smk is 6.5 and 1.7. Per jbm ballistics. 2355 fpe.

.332 needs 3020 fps to do the same thing. 6.5 and 1.6, .1 better windage. 2661 fpe.

Taking the 6 and equalizing recoil by raising velocity to and fpe to 2660fpe, 3295 brings you to 5.6 and 1.5 windage.

You would probably need 30 plus barrel and rl26 to get these velocities.

22 dasher and 95 smk does it with 3120 and 2060 fpe. 6.5/1.7 @1k.

Make your own conclusions.

 

[Winny94]

Make the switch to 6, 6.5 and 7mm and get over it.

The .257 and .277” shit will never be anything but hangers on.

Haha - youre about 18 months late with this line of thinking.

 

[Dai Bando]

Huh, tell the heads on my wall that .....
You win stupid for today, congratulations......

.257 and .277 bullets are nostalgic calibers that barely hold a candle to the calibers they sit between. If you wanna be nostalgic about them that is ok, but let’s not pretend they are or ever will be treated by bullet makers as if the cartridges they are chambered for have the barrel twist rates to spin the heavy for cal bullets that buck wind like the 6, 6.5 and 7mm do.

Getting all bent out of shape over the diameter of a bullet is really stupid in the grand scheme of things quite honestly.

 

[Dai Bando]

Haha - youre about 18 months late with this line of thinking.

One bullet? Maybe a few more boutique bullet makers get on board in the next year. Who gives a rats ass when the good shit exists right now and has options and an entire industry already backing it up?

Wanna be different? Run 16” rims and see where you end up next time you buy tires.

Don’t see anyone getting wound up becauseJack O’Connor used 16” rims.

 

[357Max]

.257 and .277 bullets are nostalgic calibers that barely hold a candle to the calibers they sit between. If you wanna be nostalgic about them that is ok, but let’s not pretend they are or ever will be treated by bullet makers as if the cartridges they are chambered for have the barrel twist rates to spin them.

Not bent at all, but .257 has been gaining a lot of traction in the last year or 2. I just view it as kind of a sweet spot for long range steel + hunting.
Got nothing against the 6mm & have a 6GT in the works.

Wanna be different? Run 16” rims and see where you end up next time you buy tires.

You need to get out more, I've got 20" on my 335i tires were about $130 each last 2 I bought

I also have a .257 Creed 7.5T Rock Creek PVA Tika shouldered prefit & a Bartlain .257 7.5T SST on ARC Nuke (by LRI). LRI & others have invested in reamers for these & that is a good indicator they're gaining ground.

Blackjack has a monopoly on .257 high BC pills & it hasn't gone unnoticed by Berger & Hornady.
There are good mono choices for hunting like the hammer hunters & I think PVA has a high BC mono.
+ Alpha, Peterson, and ADG head stamped brass for 25 Creed & SST is on the shelf.

And Yes I've got a 6.8SPC2 also. They'll be killing hogs for the next 100 years if we don't blow our selves up first.

I think the 2 below should have a fairly comparably short barrel life, but dam fun while they last.

6 Creed @ 3100 with 110smk (not posative about G7 best guess)

25SST from a 25" Bartlain 7.5T @ 2.860 COAL

 

[Scwalker83]

More wind drift, less energy on target, less barrel life (not that life really matters honestly) than the 25cm. The recoil difference is a non issue.

Depending on what you're doing with these cartridges, I disagree that recoil is a non issue.

 

[Dai Bando]

As much as Snipers Hide wants to see the 25 cal make a go of it, it will never be popular enough for bullet makers to get crazy about.

The .277 cal is in the same sinking ship and it will take a miracle for either to make even a semblance of a come back.

Had a bunch of top NRL shooters taken to it immediately the 25 Creedmoor MIGHT have had a chance, but it didn't because there aren't factories loading match ammo or any bullet options to speak of.

Not to even mention how many readily available 6mm or 6.5mm bbl's in the right twist are sitting on shelves ready to ship from several dealers and bbl makers.

Hoping and dreaming for better bullets is hilarious when a simple step up from 6.35 mm to 6.5 mm is all that's needed.

 

[archangel485]

Some people just like to tinker with something new, including me. I know some make it out to be something magical, but really it's just between 6 and 6.5 in every way, imagine that. Barrel life, recoil, performance, energy all are between 6 and 6.5 of comparable cases, that's all there is to it. Your points about bullet availability are very valid, and I hope well understood by anyone who chooses to run the 257, but honestly even when I'm running a 6 or 6.5 I'm not changing bullets on a regular basis, in fact ideally I would choose the bullet I want to run and select a barrel based on that bullet, then I buy at least 500 of them if not 2000, at which point other bullet options no longer matters anyways. That said, whether or not any other bullet makers get on board with 257 is moot since the blackjack exists today along with plenty of barrels it will stabilize in, from several manufactures. If 257 falls flat on its face and there are no longer components available in the near future (a possibility, has certainly happened to a few popular cartridges in the past), then I'd shoot the components I have until the barrel is toast, then all that's needed is a new barrel and I'm right back in the 6 or 6.5 game with some other quality bullet.

 

[Winny94]

One bullet? Maybe a few more boutique bullet makers get on board in the next year. Who gives a rats ass when the good shit exists right now and has options and an entire industry already backing it up?

Wanna be different? Run 16” rims and see where you end up next time you buy tires.

Don’t see anyone getting wound up becauseJack O’Connor used 16” rims.

weve already seen major bullet mfgs saying theyre working on bullet options, major barrel makers have jumped on board with blanks, and if you just look here, its obvioulsy gaining a lot of popularity. Not sure why you feel the need to be hostile in your disdain for the idea - no one is forcing you to shoot one. Youd probably be best off by ignoring this and any thread that has "25" in the title.

 

[Gustav7]

If any one listened to the recent Everyday Sniper Podcast, the episodes with Bryan and Emil from Berger, Bryan talks about working on a Berger LR .25 cal bullet.

 

[Dai Bando]

weve already seen major bullet mfgs saying theyre working on bullet options, major barrel makers have jumped on board with blanks, and if you just look here, its obvioulsy gaining a lot of popularity. Not sure why you feel the need to be hostile in your disdain for the idea - no one is forcing you to shoot one. Youd probably be best off by ignoring this and any thread that has "25" in the title.

It’s funny that my having a different opinion than what the Hive has decided upon gets called hostile.

Hell, I’m just trying to help you guys out and save ya’ll money.

The guys that get duped into a .25 cal will ALWAYS be wishing for better bullets when ALL the other calibers are in their hay day.

And for nothing other than nostalgia.

 

[Winny94]

It’s funny that my having a different opinion than what the Hive has decided upon gets called hostile.

Hell, I’m just trying to help you guys out and save ya’ll money.

The guys that get duped into a .25 cal will ALWAYS be wishing for better bullets when ALL the other calibers are in their hay day.

And for nothing other than nostalgia.

Like I said, you'll be further ahead just ignoring any threads with "25" in the title.