Why not safetywire for muzzle devices ?

[strikeeagle1]

It occurred to me that with all the angst regarding how to / not to secure a muzzle device with various adhesives (Loctite , Rocksett, etc) why not
apply safety wire principles to the securement of relative motion to the device / muzzle ? Critical applications in the aircraft, racecar and other industries employ the standardized safety method. No worry about heat, force application to remove / re-install etc., just torque to application and secure position with the fine gage safety wire. I understand that presently the muzzle devices do not have a pre-drilled hole like aircraft fasteners do , however how easy would it be to do so and save a lot of commotion? Asking for a friend.

 

[Terrible_Long_Gunner]

It occurred to me that with all the angst regarding how to / not to secure a muzzle device with various adhesives (Loctite , Rocksett, etc) why not
apply safety wire principles to the securement of relative motion to the device / muzzle ? Critical applications in the aircraft, racecar and other industries employ the standardized safety method. No worry about heat, force application to remove / re-install etc., just torque to application and secure position with the fine gage safety wire. I understand that presently the muzzle devices do not have a pre-drilled hole like aircraft fasteners do , however how easy would it be to do so and save a lot of commotion? Asking for a friend.

Yeah that would be great running your hand along the muzzle and getting fish hooked by the safety wire pig tail!

 

[AirgunnerPCP]

Honestly not a bad idea. Probably one of those things that haven't been "traditionally" done in the shooting world so no one does it now.

 

[strikeeagle1]

is your muzzle device coming loose a problem you are actually having?


why solve a problem that doesnt exist?

Not at all. But I am employing common solutions with some of the demerits of having to remove the device. How nice would it be to just clip a wire, and swap out / remove devices. There would not be any fish hook wire injuries if properly installed safety wire, maybe not for the bubba installations.

Countless threads on this forum related to securing / removing muzzle devices when some form of adhesive has been used.

 

[Trigger Monkey]

Thought for sure this was an AFD post...

 

[CoryT]

Not at all. But I am employing common solutions with some of the demerits of having to remove the device. How nice would it be to just clip a wire, and swap out / remove devices. There would not be any fish hook wire injuries if properly installed safety wire, maybe not for the bubba installations.

Countless threads on this forum related to securing / removing muzzle devices when some form of adhesive has been used.

And through what hole would you route the wire on the barrel?

 

[Ericsl2]

I've never had a muzzle device come loose using anti size and proper torque. Are lose muzzle devices pretty common? Are they properly installed to begin with?

If you can't properly torque a muzzle device on, I'd bet money you couldn't properly safety wire it.

 

[1911hombre]

A propane torch for a few moments on either red Loctite or Rocksett and voila... off it spins!

 

[AirgunnerPCP]

And through what hole would you route the wire on the barrel?

Could drill a hole tangent to the boreline. Although you may end up with a thin wall depending on the caliber. It's not something that would be impossible to overcome.

 

[x2cross]

If your muzzle device is torqued properly, it shouldn't becoming loose. If it does, you should notice it before it becomes an issue. It's not nearly as big of an issue if your muzzle brake or can falls off compared to bolts falling off an aeroplane. Worst case you'll get a baffle strike or something

 

[CoryT]

Could drill a hole tangent to the boreline. Although you may end up with a thin wall depending on the caliber. It's not something that would be impossible to overcome.

Which seems like a lot more work than just installing it correctly in the first place.

 

[GH41]

I think some people just like to hear themselves talk!

 

[Sogan]

Solution for a problem that doesnt exist, it seems.

 

[strikeeagle1]

If your muzzle device is torqued properly, it shouldn't becoming loose. If it does, you should notice it before it becomes an issue. It's not nearly as big of an issue if your muzzle brake or can falls off compared to bolts falling off an aeroplane. Worst case you'll get a baffle strike or something

If it does, you should notice it before it becomes an issue. It's not nearly as big of an issue if your muzzle brake or can falls off compared to bolts falling off an aeroplane. Worst case you'll get a baffle strike or something

Solution for a problem that doesn't exist ? Really,?? try the search function on this forum.

IF it's not an issue why so many threads on abberant baffle strikes an POI problems with loosening muzzle devices etc. Aircraft fasteners are individually torqued with obessive-compulsive focus, then safety wired (belt & suspenders philosophy). Don't shoot the messenger, just asking the why for's.

We didn't use to shoot off sophisticated tripods until it was realized a shot is rarely taken from the prone position.

 

[Zak Smith]

The same idea has occured to me…

 

[BLKWLFK9]

I have done literally thousands of safety wires on F15s. I'm pretty much a safety wire samurai. I don't know of a good way to wire it to the barrel. The brake collar would be easy but the barrel would be the tricky part. I would not suggest drilling a hole throw the barrel.

 

[NewsShooter]

Solution for a problem that doesn't exist ? Really,?? try the search function on this forum.

IF it's not an issue why so many threads on abberant baffle strikes an POI problems with loosening muzzle devices etc. Aircraft fasteners are individually torqued with obessive-compulsive focus, then safety wired (belt & suspenders philosophy). Don't shoot the messenger, just asking the why for's.

We didn't use to shoot off sophisticated tripods until it was realized a shot is rarely taken from the prone position.

Funny, I have several brakes, never had one loosen up on me. Most are self timing brakes, put on hand tight.

 

[JoshPutman]

And through what hole would you route the wire on the barrel?

Just cross drill it right through the centerline

 

[B y r o n]

How about the simple fact that there are certain muzzle devices that won't allow for a safety wire to be installed without interfering with the installation of silencers or other muzzle devices.

 

[rhsc]

Safety wire isn't a horrible idea, but would cost more than it's worth if you did it right. You would need something like a barrel that during final contouring is given a raised ring some distance behind the muzzle threads with 5 or 6 holes drilled equidistant around the circumference of the ring with the holes parallel to the bore. Then, per SOP wire it so that the tension on the wire increases if the muzzle device came loose. But again, the additional contouring, drilling and wiring all add cost, not to mention that virtually all devices currently on the market would need to be modified in some manner to be compatible with safety wiring.

If I ever have any concerns about it, I just use a few drops of thread locker.

 

[Gohring65]

If you’re not calling cold range to retrieve your muzzle brake you’re not shooting enough.

 

[wyld3man]

Lacing wire on a muzzle device

That would be interesting to screw a suppressor on

 

[Trigger Monkey]

Let's not stop at muzzle devices. Let's safety wire our action screws and the cross bolts on our scope mounts. Anything that can come loose gets torqued, witness marks, and safety wire.

 

[UpSideDown]

Let's take this idea to the extreme. Let's have barrel manufacturers offer barrels with built-in radial brakes and muzzle devices. Order that Griffin taper-lock integrated into the barrel. It costs $80 for a muzzle device anyways.

 

[KZP]

It's about time this technique caught on. The trick I've learned is keep the wire out of the bullet's path when weaving it through a brake. Maybe now that others are getting on board range officers will stop telling me "YOU CAN'T DO THAT, YOU'RE GOING TO HURT SUMBUDDY!"

 

[camocorvette]

Along time ago, in the unit I was in. We safety wired our peq15's, surefire lights and optics to our rifles. It made sense I suppose.

The rifle I would grab if I actually needed to defend myself or loved ones.. has nothing safety wired. Muzzle brake doesn't even have rockset on it, just a crish washer. My castle nut is staked though. My scope and light have witness marks after they have been torqued down.

Couple thousand rounds and nothing has moved...

Safety wire? Muzzle brake??

NO

 

[akmike47]

The only muzzle devices I've had come loose are with properly installed crush washers, I'm two for two. Makes no sense.

 

[patriot_man]

Take it once step further and they should just machine the flash hider into the barrel like the SIG 550. If they can finally adopt an industry standard for suppressor pitch https://www.recoilweb.com/the-universal-silencer-standard-1-375x24-156634.html

One less part in the equation to worry about timing, concentric threads or baffle strikes

 

[msgriff]

If one insisted, a taper pin like a FSB would work. Probably go smaller like a 4/0.

 

[patriot_man]

Or the Russians with a detent or the germans with a barrel with teeth and the flash hider with a locking spring.

 

[Mike Casselton]

It's about time this technique caught on. The trick I've learned is keep the wire out of the bullet's path when weaving it through a brake. Maybe now that others are getting on board range officers will stop telling me "YOU CAN'T DO THAT, YOU'RE GOING TO HURT SUMBUDDY!"

View attachment 7841771

Man, oh Man!!
That looks like some of the safety wire jobs I had to cut on F-15 7-Level inspections...

 

[SporterII]

The answer for all M4 2000 owners.

 

[beetroot]

Tab washer would be the way to go, just need a flat on the brake and a flat on the barrel.

Lockwire would be a nightmare, imagine all the threads about what pliers to use, what size wire, and how many twists per inch is optimum for accuracy.
We have enough threads about bloody torque wrenches and torque figures.

 

[rijndael]

My Jet4 brake came loose, often, and it was sufficiently torqued. I moved on to a Heathen and it stays tight without wrenches.

 

[308pirate]

You have to be completely incompetent if you need more than a torque wrench, threadlocker and maybe a lockwasher to keep a muzzle device on.

Just like the idiots who keep having their red dots falling off their pistols.

JFC

 

[308pirate]

Solution for a problem that doesn't exist ? Really,?? try the search function on this forum.

IF it's not an issue why so many threads on abberant baffle strikes an POI problems with loosening muzzle devices etc. Aircraft fasteners are individually torqued with obessive-compulsive focus, then safety wired (belt & suspenders philosophy). Don't shoot the messenger, just asking the why for's.

We didn't use to shoot off sophisticated tripods until it was realized a shot is rarely taken from the prone position.

It figures you'd be in favor of this.......

 

[spife7980]

You have to be completely incompetent if you need more than a torque wrench, threadlocker and maybe a lockwasher to keep a muzzle device on.

Just like the idiots who keep having their red dots falling off their pistols.

JFC

Don’t need any of that.
Just need a bigger wrench.

This way when you tighten the muzzle device on you can also increase the twist as well.

 

[flyright]

I think it's a pretty good idea. I'm going to safety wire my brake along with my scope to mount and mount to rifle. Also, my stock to the receiver (should only require drilling some small holes) and my cheek riser to the stock. That thing got loose once. Mag floor plate, rails and any other items you guys can recommend.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

OP likes all the things on all the guns, so this makes sense.

 

[cas6969]

Aw man.... I was all ready to get onboard with this, but I can't find any wire.
Poors.

 

[Adam B]

A propane torch for a few moments on either red Loctite or Rocksett and voila... off it spins!

Rocksett doesn’t come off when heated, you need to soak it in water.

 

[cas6969]

Don’t need any of that.
Just need a bigger wrench.

Oh the things I do for you people.

 

[wyld3man]

If hundreds of thousands of privates in the military throughout the years can't make a muzzle device fall off, then I would definitely say this is a solution looking for a problem. Otherwise Uncle Sam would have addressed this a long time ago.
Muzzle devices falling off are a case of it not being installed correctly.

 

[Krob95]

@Zak Smith does drilling a hole through my ultra 9 void the warranty if it's so I can add safety wire?? Or should I have some loops welded to it for this purpose?

 

[AccuSol-ERN]

The only brakes I've seen come loose are those pesky shouldered brakes that don't have an adequate means of tightening in their design......ala gen1 APA......no flats, no hex hole in the end, not even straight baffle holes to put a tool through. Garbage.

Go go gadget strap wrench.

Ern

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Some thoughts should stay in your head or people may mistake you for a moron.

 

[strikeeagle1]

I have done literally thousands of safety wires on F15s. I'm pretty much a safety wire samurai. I don't know of a good way to wire it to the barrel. The brake collar would be easy but the barrel would be the tricky part. I would not suggest drilling a hole throw the barrel.

I understand that presently muzzle devices don't have holes nor do rails have corresponding holes, however mfg. of those devices could incorporate them just as that fastener industry has. Just the rail industry has evolved with all sorts of picatinny , Mlok etc configurations, QD attachments for scopes rather than always bolts.

I am glad to see just the notion of safety wire got some you to the keyboard.

 

[KZP]

I understand that presently muzzle devices don't have holes nor do rails have corresponding holes, however mfg. of those devices could incorporate them just as that fastener industry has. Just the rail industry has evolved with all sorts of picatinny , Mlok etc configurations, QD attachments for scopes rather than always bolts.

I am glad to see just the notion of safety wire got some you to the keyboard.

If the extra effort for barrel and muzzle device makers is going to be invested for another form of retention between the two, wire doesn't make much sense. It's not fool proof, requires technique. My joke picture is a good example of a non skilled user attempting to retain something with wire, it can be done incorrectly.

Other ways would be user friendly. Like a roll pin that slides into a notch under the muzzle. But even that you have to hope manufactures agree on some standards. I don't see that happening unless the military requires some extra retention system that becomes broadly adopted either for contracts or marketing.

 

[camocorvette]

That's it.. pin and weld them all!

 

[Mike Casselton]

Yeah that would be great running your hand along the muzzle and getting fish hooked by the safety wire pig tail!

Have you noticed you never get stuck with .020, it's always .032 or .041, and that shit will fuck you up. Assholes need to learn to properly turn the pigtail DOWN.

The .020 will get you under the fingernail unscrewing a cannon plug.