Shows you the mindset. It's a shame, rather than promoting the sport/craft it turns into this.
Why we can't have nice things,
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It’s a reflective- move on moment for me
I get they are content, it’s often hard to look inside, I have to make a conscious effort to adjust a course like here.
initially the Scout move looked like a way to leverage their reach to promote this sport alongside the mainstream sports. I was transparent in my actions saying it was a 3 contract and it didn’t work we’d reset.
I followed though losing a size-able chunk of my money by leaving early and working the site instead. Even later I was offered a better position with the Maven but laughed at them.
if they feel things are moving forward in a positive way, and aren’t looking for feedback in any direction, why keep pushing.
hard to admit failure but it’s clear this a dead issue - time to move on down the road.
I get they are content, it’s often hard to look inside, I have to make a conscious effort to adjust a course like here.
initially the Scout move looked like a way to leverage their reach to promote this sport alongside the mainstream sports. I was transparent in my actions saying it was a 3 contract and it didn’t work we’d reset.
I followed though losing a size-able chunk of my money by leaving early and working the site instead. Even later I was offered a better position with the Maven but laughed at them.
if they feel things are moving forward in a positive way, and aren’t looking for feedback in any direction, why keep pushing.
hard to admit failure but it’s clear this a dead issue - time to move on down the road.
Well, hopefully the IPRF will continue on the path they have chosen, and just ignore a bunch of silly questions from anyone that sees them as competition. It wouldn't be the first time American competitors in a sport differed from the international version and the result is manageable.
Well i am personally glad this thread was started and was able to see what kind of scumbags are really behind the curtain. I was getting pretty excited about some of the new ideas. Such a shame. But it does give me a clear eyed view where my money will be spent and who gets my support.
Precision Rifle Series
The Precision Rifle Series is the preeminent rifle organization in the world, structuring a yearly points race for both the PRS Pro Bolt Gun Series and the PRS Regional Series. The PRS Championship Shooting Series is synonymous with precision rifle shooting.
www.precisionrifleseries.com
What’s your take on spending money with PRS sponsors who are dumping 6 figures worth of cash directly to the PRS and prizes to the shooters? I’m just curious if you are going to just boycott the matches and match directors that send scores to the PRS, or are you also going after all of the sponsors & supporters? This is America, we can’t have a middle ground, or can we?
I don’t advocate boycotting anybody involved. I believe that one should be the change that they wish to see in the world.
(Not my saying, but one that is falsely attributed to Mahatma Gandhi.)
(Not my saying, but one that is falsely attributed to Mahatma Gandhi.)
Precision Rifle Series
The Precision Rifle Series is the preeminent rifle organization in the world, structuring a yearly points race for both the PRS Pro Bolt Gun Series and the PRS Regional Series. The PRS Championship Shooting Series is synonymous with precision rifle shooting.www.precisionrifleseries.com
What’s your take on spending money with PRS sponsors who are dumping 6 figures worth of cash directly to the PRS and prizes to the shooters? I’m just curious if you are going to just boycott the matches and match directors that send scores to the PRS, or are you also going after all of the sponsors & supporters? This is America, we can’t have a middle ground, or can we?
I just want to know how the official rifle doesn't use the official action, chassis, or barrel and the official ammo doesn't use the official projo, brass, or powder. I'm confused. I'm also confused why the Precision RIFLE Series has an official pistol smith.
The title sponsor is Kahles but the official optic isn't?
I'm not really confused, I know it is because some marketing person is dumb enough to write a check, but I still think it's fucking retarded.
No boycotts
no games - just moving on down the road
if you’re into it, enjoy
if you’re not we’ll try to shine a light on options as they appear.
like I noted Jim See is dropping his two day match prices to $150 and still giving cash prizes and t shirts
despite the lower costs
stuff like that
no games - just moving on down the road
if you’re into it, enjoy
if you’re not we’ll try to shine a light on options as they appear.like I noted Jim See is dropping his two day match prices to $150 and still giving cash prizes and t shirts
despite the lower costsstuff like that
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But I would most certainly refrain from “sanctioned” match’s stacked around “outlaw” local matches and MD I like.
LOL
Wait let me look at what MY window says,
Safari or Duck Duck Go would be my guess
Wait let me look at what MY window says,
Safari or Duck Duck Go would be my guess
Hope to see all the shooters in this post at the range soon.
don’t worry your SH alerts are mobile. You won’t miss an episode!!!
don’t worry your SH alerts are mobile. You won’t miss an episode!!!
Woody here! STRONG ROOTS BRING NEW GROWTH TO ANYTHING. This is all finally getting to where I said it would head. Haven’t seen this sight are kept up when I walked away from it when Shawn owned the PRS. It’s on the same path 3 Gun Nation went down. How do I Know??? I was there in the beginNing.......on both of them getting growth exposer in 2016/17. PRS will die a long and slow death like 3gun Nation. Said it about 3GN 5 years before and it happen and it wasn’t held back when I said it, but wait for all the PRS Fan Boys...... I’ll explain. Find a 3GunNation Match now.
Dave and I met Rich, Nate, and Rich’s wife in Vagas in 2015 about PRS matches. Unfortunately it was a Gem when Rich held the ownership.Just like 3GN. As things started growing as do all good STRUCTURED shooting sports.
Many here will rant at me. Good it will give you something to do and want see it anyway. The attitude and the approach is all wrong. You take the local matches that Dave and I started. Know one on the East Coast turned 100 shooters for a so called local monthly match back then.....We did. we’ve seen the turn, the straight away and curves, is it 3/4 different ownerships now? Each time someone rolls out the same idea just throwing different money at it to succeed. Deep pockets, fancy website, big name board members, and oh yea sponsorships. All this shaping up for the PRS FB’s. .....unfortunately this series is doomed. Why? It’s not structured for the average Joe, you know the local /regional shooter that works hard everyday supporting their family while trying to enjoy and afford the hobby. That’s the ones you need to focus on. Big money, Big Sponsorships, come and go but there still is the Big Problem. It’s Structured to Make Money for someone not for the Hard working local shooter that doesn’t care about all this and just wants to compete. This thinking that one series of a shooting sport can control long range shooting on a nation level is possible but not without strong roots. Dave who is very well structured point these things out to the second ownership group......Just before the Big Board of Directors was formed. yippy, hippy we have a board!
I know shortly after that things seem to change toward some wellness to have local MD’s giving input to The Big Board. Dave and I noticed the push back really early after Rich sold. It seem it wasn’t working to support the local core group of shooters, prize tables being unequal from match to match,etc. The biggest thing for us was we were limited on Space as most ranges on the far right of the country. So rules across the board was really pushing us as far as setup. Local shooters being driven to certain areas to compete because of the non-support and NO listening ear of the club series matches that had STRONG ROOTS and NEW GROWTH. I really do miss seeing everyone that supported the local club series matches early on but glad the Drama Boys Didn’t Like Dave and I. Paul can deal with the drama of the PRS and its Fan Club. Oh I didn’t even mentioned the shXXXy way they handled the cheating scandal........great direction and structure. PRS a Pile of Real Sxxt. Woody out.......
Dave and I met Rich, Nate, and Rich’s wife in Vagas in 2015 about PRS matches. Unfortunately it was a Gem when Rich held the ownership.Just like 3GN. As things started growing as do all good STRUCTURED shooting sports.
Many here will rant at me. Good it will give you something to do and want see it anyway. The attitude and the approach is all wrong. You take the local matches that Dave and I started. Know one on the East Coast turned 100 shooters for a so called local monthly match back then.....We did. we’ve seen the turn, the straight away and curves, is it 3/4 different ownerships now? Each time someone rolls out the same idea just throwing different money at it to succeed. Deep pockets, fancy website, big name board members, and oh yea sponsorships. All this shaping up for the PRS FB’s. .....unfortunately this series is doomed. Why? It’s not structured for the average Joe, you know the local /regional shooter that works hard everyday supporting their family while trying to enjoy and afford the hobby. That’s the ones you need to focus on. Big money, Big Sponsorships, come and go but there still is the Big Problem. It’s Structured to Make Money for someone not for the Hard working local shooter that doesn’t care about all this and just wants to compete. This thinking that one series of a shooting sport can control long range shooting on a nation level is possible but not without strong roots. Dave who is very well structured point these things out to the second ownership group......Just before the Big Board of Directors was formed. yippy, hippy we have a board!
I know shortly after that things seem to change toward some wellness to have local MD’s giving input to The Big Board. Dave and I noticed the push back really early after Rich sold. It seem it wasn’t working to support the local core group of shooters, prize tables being unequal from match to match,etc. The biggest thing for us was we were limited on Space as most ranges on the far right of the country. So rules across the board was really pushing us as far as setup. Local shooters being driven to certain areas to compete because of the non-support and NO listening ear of the club series matches that had STRONG ROOTS and NEW GROWTH. I really do miss seeing everyone that supported the local club series matches early on but glad the Drama Boys Didn’t Like Dave and I. Paul can deal with the drama of the PRS and its Fan Club. Oh I didn’t even mentioned the shXXXy way they handled the cheating scandal........great direction and structure. PRS a Pile of Real Sxxt. Woody out.......
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Woody let’s get some outlaw long range matches going back at the range. Miss shooting over there.
Woody (as well as Frank) is spot on as we lived it at the matches held on Woodys range and family farm.
I cannot count how many of the RO’s, plank members of the matches and shooters that drove hours to shoot the DMM, Outlaw and Sanctioned events have reached out to Woody, Roy and me opining about the old days saying let’s just shoot screw prize tables and “bowling” shirts
i believe the Grass roots approach from Rifles Only and original PRS Rich had going was solid. The shooters/sport could gain a lot from a focus on the basic. On the current trajectory the drama is running off RO’s, MD’s and Range owners.
Without Ranges and RO’s there are no matches Outlaw or Sanctioned so more focus on being appreciative to the Range Owner's/RO’s vs BS DRAMA would go along way for our long range rifle addiction.
I cannot count how many of the RO’s, plank members of the matches and shooters that drove hours to shoot the DMM, Outlaw and Sanctioned events have reached out to Woody, Roy and me opining about the old days saying let’s just shoot screw prize tables and “bowling” shirts
i believe the Grass roots approach from Rifles Only and original PRS Rich had going was solid. The shooters/sport could gain a lot from a focus on the basic. On the current trajectory the drama is running off RO’s, MD’s and Range owners.
Without Ranges and RO’s there are no matches Outlaw or Sanctioned so more focus on being appreciative to the Range Owner's/RO’s vs BS DRAMA would go along way for our long range rifle addiction.
Do it! I used to drive down from CT to shoot those matches. Now I live in Fuquay and no matches
Lets get back to some fun. Even some .22 matches as that would work great over there with the way that area is set up.
Oh the one other thing I forgot. They.....the PRS made rules for all Match Directors that running any match under the PRS series that MD had to cut all ties with any sponsorships they had and everything had to go through them. Interesting.......Sounds just like Pete and Chad in the beginning of 3GN.
We appreciate all the support we have received over the last 3-4 years about hopefully hosting matches again. My ro’s and match support team were the best. It’s unfortunate that the PRS did not want to support Dave’s and my idea of running the ro’s under a different scoring group or even have a small prize table set aside for them at every National held PRS match. Without the land, and ro’s you have nothing. Their answer to the hard working ro........we will give them a free match fee in Kalamazo. So the match fee is free but they have to spend 1500.00 to get there. So now if you read this and you RO a PRS match instead of standing in the weather holding a timer for them just asked to get paid the match fee save the 1500.00 and buy bullets. Sounds fair to Woody.
We appreciate all the support we have received over the last 3-4 years about hopefully hosting matches again. My ro’s and match support team were the best. It’s unfortunate that the PRS did not want to support Dave’s and my idea of running the ro’s under a different scoring group or even have a small prize table set aside for them at every National held PRS match. Without the land, and ro’s you have nothing. Their answer to the hard working ro........we will give them a free match fee in Kalamazo. So the match fee is free but they have to spend 1500.00 to get there. So now if you read this and you RO a PRS match instead of standing in the weather holding a timer for them just asked to get paid the match fee save the 1500.00 and buy bullets. Sounds fair to Woody.
Woody I will be waiting patiently for some more matches at your facility.
3Gun suffered along the same path and while new shooters are coming in, more are leaving than joining, especially shooting the majors. "No-one owns..." has been drowned out so many times in the competitive shooting world it is like we, as a group, are too blind to take it all in and understand it, learn from it and adapt as needed.
Well said Frank!
Well said Frank!
As Dave and Woody said it, our ROs are the best!! Personally I miss seeing them and shooting with them as they pushed me to be a better shooter, but as stated the BS Drama mostly from the “bowling” shirt crew and infringement on MDs was too much.
To the ROs that I haven’t been able to keep up with, miss you all. Would love to send rounds down range with ya anytime! Know that Dave, Woody and I think about you guys/gals every time we talk to one another.
@lowlight ,
I've shot all disciplines out there. USPS, IDPA, 3-Gun, and now PRS and am a MD at a range in MO in the MOST series. As many people have voiced, one of the things that has always frustrated me was the top shooters walking the prize table to just sell the product on the many sale pages the next day. While I understand shooting is an expensive hobby/sport, I have always felt it was disrespectful to the sponsors and their donations.
Years ago, Ken Flood, was working for FN and did exactly what you suggested for the prize table at the Midwest 3-Gun Championship. He did a Lewis Class scoring system where it was divided into 4 flights. A,B,C,D flight. The matchwinner walked the prize table first. Say there were 200 shooters so shooter 51 walked second, 101 walked third, 151 walked 4th. Then back to the beginning to start the rotation in flights again. One of the things that has stuck in my mind through all the years that has passed is the shooter that walked 4th, shooter 151 is a local retired LEO that I run into often. He always sees me and says " Im the Midwest 3-Gun Champion! Of D flight!" Never in his wildest dreams did he think he would ever have a chance at walking the prize table 4th! You will never see that rifle on some sale page. He also went and told all his friends and guess who showed up at the next club matches. Him and his buddies.
I know the prize table is just a drop in the bucket with the issues at hand. I just think the Lewis Scoring is a viable option since there is no way to sandbag your way into any position other than first!
PRS MD HERE. Just held a monthly PRS sanctioned event with a great shooter count and everyone treating the other great. I forgot a few important details on the COF and everyone rolled with it. Great Match.
Most didn’t know about the drama in here or FB. I told them to wait for Netflix to catch all the seasons of this show.
have a great week and stay safe.
Most didn’t know about the drama in here or FB. I told them to wait for Netflix to catch all the seasons of this show.
have a great week and stay safe.
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That story made me smile. The first time I did well enough to make an early trip to a prize table I was still a poor college student, I still have the Aimpoint I picked up and I will never sell it. That made my year.
Nah, that’s pretty standard with PRS bois. What’s next level is what happened next
Yeah day 2 was tough to say the leastNah, that’s pretty standard with PRS bois. What’s next level is what happened next
. So pissed cause that helicopter stage was one of my better ones (not that it matters)
The "what happened next" part I enjoyed hearing about is how the removal of the bags caused some top guys to zero a common stage
that was the interesting part to me, Jacob reacting is expected, but I camped there for 7 years so I am bit more intimate with is mindset
that was the interesting part to me, Jacob reacting is expected, but I camped there for 7 years so I am bit more intimate with is mindset
Hi,
LOLOLOLOL so much for the old argument of "Give the top guys a factory gun with no bags and they still remain on top" might need to be modified after Jacob pulled the use of bags, hahahaha
Sincerely,
Theis
LOLOLOLOL so much for the old argument of "Give the top guys a factory gun with no bags and they still remain on top" might need to be modified after Jacob pulled the use of bags, hahahaha
Sincerely,
Theis
I didn’t mind the removal of the bags. It was WAY more challenging but that was even across the board. And yes, not surprising coming from Jacob. It did suck that he threw the stage out after day 2 though. A “punishment” directed at a few people but “hurt” a lot of people that shot it as he intended.
That is part of the argument when a squad does something the rest of the field is not aware of, the ripples extend out in all directions - good and bad.
why process arguments matter here
why process arguments matter here
No. The stage allowed the use of 1 bag or sling. This is the bag a few shooters used. Technically it’s “one bag” but Jacob felt it was not done “in the spirit it was meant to be shot” per his rules stated in the match book.
Yeh, what a bunch of jokers. If it feels like you are gaming a stage, you probably are. I don’t know Jacob (obviously), but I highly doubt a MD would have been happy when he found out this BS happened. Some things shouldn’t have to be explained in such detail so that someone doesn’t try and game a stage like this.
I watched a guy shoot off a post with several small rung poles coming out of it at different heights. The idea was to shoot 2 targets off each rung. He used his sling to support the front of his rifle and put the other end over whatever rung he was supposed to be shooting off of. He was able to stay prone and just adjusted the sling up and down. It turned into a shit show but since his sling was on each rung for the shot, they allowed it. A little later two rungs broke off and it was thrown out. I still can't believe the shit show it create and the jersey shooters that were involved.
Can we all agree that if a “bag” also moonlights as a piece of furniture.......it’s probably against the intent?
Absolutely. The RO probably should have pulled the plug on the use of that bag, but whoever used it should have known better especially if the COF stated to "shoot the intent of the stage". Clearly, the intent of the stage was to shoot off of a string, not a disturbingly-large beanbag.
You guys know we are all batching about the organizations that are involved. If we don't support kids and shooting the sport will die... sooo just a thought im gonna drop this right here.
www.snipershide.com
GGWG's & Kids S.A.F.E. Foundation Let's Do This!
One of our Brothers, @earthquake brought this up regarding the Kids S.A.F.E. Foundation. Myself and a number of others have looked into this, and as far as Good Guy's With Guns and The Squirrel Mafia is concerned, this is a WINNER all the way around. Here is the link for donations and some...
www.snipershide.com
Now that's some fuckin gamer bullshit right there.
One of the organizations I shoot with has a "circumventing game spirit" rule for things like this which equates to a massive time penalty to prevent cheesy gaming. Admittedly hard to standardize across several clubs / matches, but works for us because we're a small org of guys who all mostly know each other or know of each other. Thus we have a bit of an unspoken standard of what we expect out of matches.
Not gonna lie, that's pretty clever. I think I'd have let that one float. Shame the prop broke.
Reminds me of a stage I was an RO on where the last target could be shot any position except prone. It ended up being shot where everyone was basically ass up face down and on their elbows "modified" prone. It was allowed because their belly wasn't touching the ground. It looked absolutely retarded.
I thought of this as well.
As a mid level (new) compitetor, Im fully capable of chomping at the sponser/captilist bit my self. IE: I see shooter #1 with X gear, I can go buy X gear (pretty much why sponsorships exist). but then to let the top finishers, all sponsored shooters grab all the top stuff off the prize table never made more sense to me other than just rewarding their performance, possibly giving less performing shooters something to strive for. maybe give the new shooters and less performing shooters some slice of the pie to keep them coming back would have far more equitable results?
Hi,
That looks like the new Texas shooting mat, specifically designed to keep shooters from touching the frozen ground because Biden refused to increase electric outputs, hahaha
Sincerely,
Theis
That looks like the new Texas shooting mat, specifically designed to keep shooters from touching the frozen ground because Biden refused to increase electric outputs, hahaha
Sincerely,
Theis
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