So we are finally coming full circle on this?
I mean I don't think anyone is ever going back to 260 rem...
Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
So we are finally coming full circle on this?
I mean I don't think anyone is ever going back to 260 rem...
SHC in winter would be epic, especially if it’s in the same place as past few yearsIt’s coming, they just didn’t turn it on yet, it will be a similar style as they used the same software.
I spoke with them for about 2 hours yesterday and the the cut to the chase answer is,
I am throwing in the white towel, you all win.
I don’t feel we agreed on a single question, I don’t see a single change happening, everything is grand, people are content, so who am I to question it... it was just a circular discussion. I really felt i was wasting everyone’s time and once that happens, its not worth it. Time is too short to waste on this anymore.
If you send me complaint, I will not open it, just be deleted. You’re welcome to discuss them all you want on SH, but my advise would be something else. The interest is not there, they only see success, so who are we to complain.
You all enjoy, I think I may just change the SHC to something I want to do, won’t be this year, it’s part of the RTC program as it’s been. I‘ll move the day to a time of a the year I can put more focus into it. Then just create the single event I might enjoy and forget the rest. Maybe make it invite only and not charge people or something silly, it can become a hangout, lol.
I’m Out, PEACE Shooter‘s —> no wind.
Say whaaaaaaaaaaaaaatI mean I don't think anyone is ever going back to 260 rem...
I know for me a June is difficult, in non COVID times, cause that the beginning of peak travel And for you because it’s peak training season. October is a no brainer. Make the cup part of the guardian seriesI do like Carl’s location for the SHC, I think there is a lot of potential around those pieces of property
not sure about winter per say, but Oct, November would be easier for me
I mean I don't think anyone is ever going back to 260 rem...
Say whaaaaaaaaaaaaaat
I am still shooting 260 too
I will make the SHC a 260 match, every 260 gets an extra 3 points for just showing up
And that is my main reason for thinking the IPRF should exist. Secondarily, as a recognized International Sport, it paves the way for transporting legal firearms in and out of countries that have otherwise, very restrictive firearm laws.As a not so new shooter, but not too many matches under my belt, after seeing behind the curtain reading the last 10 pages of comments, it has opened my eyes. I’ll just continue to support my club matches, obviously not PRS sanctioned.
being an Aussie expat, the IPRF is something that is needed there. Their gun rights are being eroded every year, and this could give some legitimacy to any PRS-type of match.
Shows you the mindset. It's a shame, rather than promoting the sport/craft it turns into this.This is why we can't have nice things,
I talked about a lot of inside ball over the years in regards to competitions. As noted many times, this is not new, not even the idea of a series. In the early 2000s there was a series attempt and it failed. Part of the problem is growth and being forward thinking enough to understand, nobody owns this game. The idea that one group is in charge of Precision Rifle Competition is silly on its face, and insulting when you understand the history.
When the PRS started in 2012 it was on the heels of what Jacob and I were doing at Rifles Only. Sure there was other matches here and there. In a typical year back in 2004 you might have 4 two day matches. Each one of those matches might have 50 shooters. The rules, the format, everything was flexible it was just a group of like minded people enjoying a hobby. As the community grew, in part because of Sniper's Hide, it was where everyone hung before the FB Groups, we discussed, coordinated, debated, and argued about what we are doing.
The joint Sniper's Hide / Rifles Only matches set the standard, but that standard needs to change. The idea you could build a series around this game is flawed. We have too many individuals with to big of personalities to manage a one size fits all approach. The conflicts of the past divided the shooter community into East & West, North & South, Affiliated and Nomad. It's time for a change.
2020 was a mess, Countries shut down, everyone on hold, but we managed.
We need to reflect as a group and have a big reset. The mindset and reasonings have changed, the equipment has evolved, the locations have grown and adapted into something nobody really likes. We all recognize the benefit of competition shooting, but we also have to acknowledge the damage it has caused on across the board. Nothing we do is set in stone, there is no Association that oversees what we do, no governing board that requires we vote to change directions. We are still grassroots despite the money we bring in, and put out. So changes are really easy, you just have to agree to consider them.
I think the regions are the answer, we can't have a National Governing Body in the United States. It's too fractured, broke, and beyond repair. Besides who really owns this... nobody. Before going too far forward, my thoughts are create Regional groups of like minded people. Determine your own rules and standards, and then if you have to test your work, find other regions to compete against. The Nationals Stage is broken beyond repair, it will never serve the community as a whole when it designed to enrich only a select few.
Recently on the Everyday Sniper Podcast I have been talking to people about this very thing. Creating Regional Divisions for people to compete under. Those regions are working together to cut out the National organizations because of the in-fighting taking place. It's a natural thing when the big stage no longer works for the individual they will just build a community one for the locals to enjoy. As I have noted many, many times, I have turned into the Complaint Department for the Competition Series. The Series wants to control the message so the competitors find other avenues to get the message out. I happen to be that sympathetic ear. This stated, I have some communication between Shannon and the PRS in response to the International Precision Rifle Federation.
The response from the IPRF will make it clear the inside ball, it will answer those questions the first email might not. So read both:
PRS Email First :
So they reached out to the various groups to Invite the PRS to send a Team to Compete, that was the answer above and here is their response below
We are doomed to failure if we continue down this path.
I think we need a Summit here in the United States, one that sits all interested parties down for a minimum of 2 days. One that hammers out the objectives of this community. One that puts to rest the infighting and disorganization, if a group does not want to play ball with the rest, that group can be an Island alone. From here changes can be made to reset things in a positive direction. Plenty of smart people engage in this activity we have more than enough examples to pick and choose from in order to build a better mousetrap. The direction things are currently moving on the big stage are short for this world. We can grow the sport together, or we can work without certain individuals and operate around them in other ways. This is not something one person should claim to own. We are barely playing with .1% right now, growing it together would be huge.
There is the individual good, and the greater good. Today it's a bunch of individuals claiming to be working for the greater good, we all know that is bullshit to include me. We fractured and broke years ago and have been playing games ever since. Time to fix it or forget it and move on to something better.
Well i am personally glad this thread was started and was able to see what kind of scumbags are really behind the curtain. I was getting pretty excited about some of the new ideas. Such a shame. But it does give me a clear eyed view where my money will be spent and who gets my support.
Precision Rifle Series
The Precision Rifle Series is the preeminent rifle organization in the world, structuring a yearly points race for both the PRS Pro Bolt Gun Series and the PRS Regional Series. The PRS Championship Shooting Series is synonymous with precision rifle shooting.www.precisionrifleseries.com
What’s your take on spending money with PRS sponsors who are dumping 6 figures worth of cash directly to the PRS and prizes to the shooters? I’m just curious if you are going to just boycott the matches and match directors that send scores to the PRS, or are you also going after all of the sponsors & supporters? This is America, we can’t have a middle ground, or can we?
What's the official browser sponsor of the PRS forum?I just want to know how the official rifle doesn't use the official action, chassis, or barrel and the official ammo doesn't use the official projo, brass, or powder. I'm confused. I'm also confused why the Precision RIFLE Series has an official pistol smith.
The title sponsor is Kahles but the official optic isn't?
I'm not really confused, I know it is because some marketing person is dumb enough to write a check, but I still think it's fucking retarded.
Woody (as well as Frank) is spot on as we lived it at the matches held on Woodys range and family farm.
I cannot count how many of the RO’s, plank members of the matches and shooters that drove hours to shoot the DMM, Outlaw and Sanctioned events have reached out to Woody, Roy and me opining about the old days saying let’s just shoot screw prize tables and “bowling” shirts
i believe the Grass roots approach from Rifles Only and original PRS Rich had going was solid. The shooters/sport could gain a lot from a focus on the basic. On the current trajectory the drama is running off RO’s, MD’s and Range owners.
Without Ranges and RO’s there are no matches Outlaw or Sanctioned so more focus on being appreciative to the Range Owner's/RO’s vs BS DRAMA would go along way for our long range rifle addiction.
As Dave and Woody said it, our ROs are the best!! Personally I miss seeing them and shooting with them as they pushed me to be a better shooter, but as stated the BS Drama mostly from the “bowling” shirt crew and infringement on MDs was too much.Woody (as well as Frank) is spot on as we lived it at the matches held on Woodys range and family farm.
I cannot count how many of the RO’s, plank members of the matches and shooters that drove hours to shoot the DMM, Outlaw and Sanctioned events have reached out to Woody, Roy and me opining about the old days saying let’s just shoot screw prize tables and “bowling” shirts
i believe the Grass roots approach from Rifles Only and original PRS Rich had going was solid. The shooters/sport could gain a lot from a focus on the basic. On the current trajectory the drama is running off RO’s, MD’s and Range owners.
Without Ranges and RO’s there are no matches Outlaw or Sanctioned so more focus on being appreciative to the Range Owner's/RO’s vs BS DRAMA would go along way for our long range rifle addiction.
@lowlight ,The prize tables don/t have to go, just be spelled out better.
I think the classification system the regional series up here are doing is the fix, you can debate the values but creating the class system like:
A
B
C
Classes can solve the prize table issue immediately, you put the prizes on the classification table so you only pick from your table, you can put good prizes on every table, not front load it.
The classifications need to go off finish score that puts you in your proper bucket and just use a percentage based model for it. Percent of possible or winner
The other posts talk about it, and it will solve many of the process issues and the computer should do most of the work
It will never happen, but I still feel pretty strong about the Open and Limited Only then Classifications of each in the A, B, C zone, we are really too small to play with a bunch of different things, it would have longer legs keeping it simple. But this is probably too radical a change
@lowlight ,
I've shot all disciplines out there. USPS, IDPA, 3-Gun, and now PRS and am a MD at a range in MO in the MOST series. As many people have voiced, one of the things that has always frustrated me was the top shooters walking the prize table to just sell the product on the many sale pages the next day. While I understand shooting is an expensive hobby/sport, I have always felt it was disrespectful to the sponsors and their donations.
Years ago, Ken Flood, was working for FN and did exactly what you suggested for the prize table at the Midwest 3-Gun Championship. He did a Lewis Class scoring system where it was divided into 4 flights. A,B,C,D flight. The matchwinner walked the prize table first. Say there were 200 shooters so shooter 51 walked second, 101 walked third, 151 walked 4th. Then back to the beginning to start the rotation in flights again. One of the things that has stuck in my mind through all the years that has passed is the shooter that walked 4th, shooter 151 is a local retired LEO that I run into often. He always sees me and says " Im the Midwest 3-Gun Champion! Of D flight!" Never in his wildest dreams did he think he would ever have a chance at walking the prize table 4th! You will never see that rifle on some sale page. He also went and told all his friends and guess who showed up at the next club matches. Him and his buddies.
I know the prize table is just a drop in the bucket with the issues at hand. I just think the Lewis Scoring is a viable option since there is no way to sandbag your way into any position other than first!
Nah, that’s pretty standard with PRS bois. What’s next level is what happened nextThis is some next level shit right here View attachment 7563799
Yeah day 2 was tough to say the least . So pissed cause that helicopter stage was one of my better ones (not that it matters)Nah, that’s pretty standard with PRS bois. What’s next level is what happened next
So was the giant pillow a part of the stage that everyone could use?This is some next level shit right here View attachment 7563799