It appears someone has been holding out on us. LOL!!!
Nice shooting, guess I gotta get my butt busy.
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William Buck Memorial Postal Matches
- Thread starter Rimfireshooter99
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Nice shooting, guess I gotta get my butt busy.
Yes indeed...anyone who is willing to give up his time for a group of strangers on the internet is good to go in my book!!
Thank you sir. Probably mostly luck, but It is going to be my competition gun until I get more comfortable with the Vudoo.It appears someone has been holding out on us. LOL!!!
Nice shooting, guess I gotta get my butt busy.
Thanks for the reply / info. Our club has seperate 100 yard range with no mid way group setting. However, I do think I could get away with surveyor tape on top the 100 yard target anyway. Also good tip on the splatter. thks
Well, I couldn't take the pressure so I got to the range today and tried my hand at the JBell 6x5 100yd. challenge while practicing my wind calls for our next ARA match. I set my 100yd. target just to the left of my 50yd. target so I could easily switch from one to the other. I was shooting in thunderstorms rolling out of the Gulf, had about a thousand wind conditions to read!! LOL!!!! I was going to shoot six more groups but the rain finally set in so I packed it up.
I measured OTO with calipers and subtracted .204" to get the CTC. The .204" is the bullet hole size made in the target. Please let me know if this is right or wrong.
Mr. Larry, here is my official entry, please let me know if you see any errors.
JBELL 6x5 100yd. Match 9/2/2023
Vudoo V22S, Eley Semi-Auto Benchrest Precision
Group Avg. - .675"
Best Group - .455"
Bonus target pic. ARA Unlimited target shot with Eley match at 50yds.
I measured OTO with calipers and subtracted .204" to get the CTC. The .204" is the bullet hole size made in the target. Please let me know if this is right or wrong.
Mr. Larry, here is my official entry, please let me know if you see any errors.
JBELL 6x5 100yd. Match 9/2/2023
Vudoo V22S, Eley Semi-Auto Benchrest Precision
Group Avg. - .675"
Best Group - .455"
Bonus target pic. ARA Unlimited target shot with Eley match at 50yds.
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Well done my friend. Good job in tough winds.
My thoughts are... as per my "show me your 0.0X group" thread, I personally wouldn't mess with the actual hole size evaluation / debate. In benchrest comp (better paper) the scorer would just flattened the target and measured the outer black ring to outer black ring across each group at farthest spot, and then subtract the bullet diameter (0.223 in this case). When the outer black ring to black ring is measured properly (lots if times it isn't by people), then the actual hole diam topic is less important for the purposes of what we are doing here. This is how I measure all my groups for 30+ years now. Let's see what Rimfireshooter99 says.
Related to your ammunition used, I do shoot the ESABR in my Kidd as it doesn't gum up the action like SK or others ammunition does. One thing I noticed, is ESABR does leave a smaller and less visible black ring. I never thought to try it in my Vudoo, mostly b/c around here it is pricey and the same cost as Lapua CX (if a guy could get any). Might be worth my consideration though? Come to think of it, I don't think I have even tried Eley Match in my Vudoo either.
Looks like I gotta step my game up and start shooting at 100 more, as I am getting left behind.
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Although my range won't allow flags, back in the day the most I shot at 100 yards was 2-3 flags.
Can you advise how you are reading the multiple flags? Are you looking / waiting for the same wind on all flags to repeat shots? Or do you have two or three winds and holds memorized by sighters, and then you shoot into the group when one of the two or three conditions are observed? Some details / insight please...thks
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Larry, good afternoon. Good weather here and I took advantage of it. Sunny 75 degrees and little wind. A good day to get out and grab some aroma therapy.
My September target is attached.
I believe I found how to enjoy this rifle and try my best to get up to its potential.
I have changed my cleaning protocol. I now deep clean the chamber every two outings with carbon buster. I only run a clean swab through the barrel but never deep clean it anymore. The consistency in my rounds on target are much better than when I cleaned chamber and barrel.
That’s what works on my 457.
Happy shooting,
John
My September target is attached.
I believe I found how to enjoy this rifle and try my best to get up to its potential.
I have changed my cleaning protocol. I now deep clean the chamber every two outings with carbon buster. I only run a clean swab through the barrel but never deep clean it anymore. The consistency in my rounds on target are much better than when I cleaned chamber and barrel.
That’s what works on my 457.
Happy shooting,
John
@Precision Quest
I did say hole, I meant the black ring on the paper, sorry about that. When I measured the black ring I got an average of .204". Also measured groups the same way, black ring to black ring. I will say this is the first time I've tried to measure with calipers so it's a learning curve for me. Had to put on a pair of readers I've been trying not to use for awhile.....guess I'm in denial..... LOL!!! All advice on this is greatly appreciated!!
I shot about 4 different wind conditions with flags mostly pointing the same way, sometimes only 3 or 4 out of the five. You can see on group #2 and #4 where I tried to push the condition and lost....I'm hard headed that way sometimes.
On group #1,#2,#3 and #4 conditions were changing a lot and I wasn't able to hold one spot at all, pretty much moved holding spot for every shot.
For group #5 and #6 the switchy wind calmed down some so I was able wait on the flags and hold center bull for every shot. All this while trying to beat the rain.
The two pics of my flags that I posted were definite no shoot conditions.
Thanks!!
I did say hole, I meant the black ring on the paper, sorry about that. When I measured the black ring I got an average of .204". Also measured groups the same way, black ring to black ring. I will say this is the first time I've tried to measure with calipers so it's a learning curve for me. Had to put on a pair of readers I've been trying not to use for awhile.....guess I'm in denial..... LOL!!! All advice on this is greatly appreciated!!
I shot about 4 different wind conditions with flags mostly pointing the same way, sometimes only 3 or 4 out of the five. You can see on group #2 and #4 where I tried to push the condition and lost....I'm hard headed that way sometimes.
On group #1,#2,#3 and #4 conditions were changing a lot and I wasn't able to hold one spot at all, pretty much moved holding spot for every shot.
For group #5 and #6 the switchy wind calmed down some so I was able wait on the flags and hold center bull for every shot. All this while trying to beat the rain.
The two pics of my flags that I posted were definite no shoot conditions.
Thanks!!
@Precision Quest
For got to mention, The bonus target pic above was shot with Eley match.
I have two different lot#'s of Eley SABRP and both shoot pretty good for me. I can shoot 2000 on an ARA Unlimited target consistently. This is the only 22LR benchrest rifle I own so every ammo I try gets shot in it.
We've had some good Eley match and some not so good, guess that's how it works for most any ammo someone tries.
Here's an unlimited target I also shot yesterday with Eley SABRP, same lot# I shot the 6x5 with. The top left sighter (10 shots) and Third row down were shot Midas+, all the rest were shot with Eley SABRP.
For got to mention, The bonus target pic above was shot with Eley match.
I have two different lot#'s of Eley SABRP and both shoot pretty good for me. I can shoot 2000 on an ARA Unlimited target consistently. This is the only 22LR benchrest rifle I own so every ammo I try gets shot in it.
We've had some good Eley match and some not so good, guess that's how it works for most any ammo someone tries.
Here's an unlimited target I also shot yesterday with Eley SABRP, same lot# I shot the 6x5 with. The top left sighter (10 shots) and Third row down were shot Midas+, all the rest were shot with Eley SABRP.
Nice shooting Sir! That 457 sure is putting out for you and thanks for sharing your cleaning routine.
Bowchamp, when you use calipers to measure the width of a group of shots for the 6x5, you should measure the outer edge of the black ring to the outer edge of the black ring on the other side. We use this for consistency sake, so our scores are comparable from shooter to shooter. Here are a couple of examples from your target...
Some ammo, like your Eley Match, cut cleaner holes in the paper (also depends on the paper used), while leaving a smaller dark ring around
the hole.
Other ammo leave a dark ring around the hole, which makes it more challenging to measure. The calculation is setup to try to accomodate both situations, by measuring the widest part of a group, using the dark ring edges, then subtracting the actually diameter of a bullet. The physical holes in paper will always be smaller than the hole needed for the round to pass through, which is why we see a dark ring around the hole.
I hope this helps?
Larry
Yes sir Mr. Larry, it's makes perfect sense. Thanks for the help. Another shooter helped explain it also... @Precision Quest.
I misspoke when I said hole...gotta get use to the lingo. I did measure outer edge to outer edge of dark ring for group size. Not subtracting .223" is on me....even says it on the target. It's what I get for not having my targets with me. I'll get it right on my next target.
If there is anything else y'all see me messing up, please let me know!!
Again, I really appreciate y'all putting up with me while get all this figured out.
Thanks!!
While I'm at it, here is an official entry for the 50yd. Unlimited Match.
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Mr. Larry,
Here's another entry for me.
JBell 6x5 50yds. 9-4-2023
Vudoo V22S
SK Pistol Match
Smallest group .182"
Group Avg. .272"
Thanks you Sir!!
Here's another entry for me.
JBell 6x5 50yds. 9-4-2023
Vudoo V22S
SK Pistol Match
Smallest group .182"
Group Avg. .272"
Thanks you Sir!!
Bowchamp, I have your scores posted. Nice looking Vudoo! Shoots pretty good too! Well done...
Larry
thanks.@Precision Quest
I did say hole, I meant the black ring on the paper, sorry about that. When I measured the black ring I got an average of .204". Also measured groups the same way, black ring to black ring. I will say this is the first time I've tried to measure with calipers so it's a learning curve for me. Had to put on a pair of readers I've been trying not to use for awhile.....guess I'm in denial..... LOL!!! All advice on this is greatly appreciated!!
I shot about 4 different wind conditions with flags mostly pointing the same way, sometimes only 3 or 4 out of the five. You can see on group #2 and #4 where I tried to push the condition and lost....I'm hard headed that way sometimes.
On group #1,#2,#3 and #4 conditions were changing a lot and I wasn't able to hold one spot at all, pretty much moved holding spot for every shot.
For group #5 and #6 the switchy wind calmed down some so I was able wait on the flags and hold center bull for every shot. All this while trying to beat the rain.
The two pics of my flags that I posted were definite no shoot conditions.
Thanks!!
I gotta wear readers too now. However, I use my glasses and a mounted magnifying glass when measuring my groups. I try to be as accurate as possible in measuring groups as it is the only tools I have aside from a Chrony to evaluate ammuntion properly in each gun.
Thank You Sir!!
I have a lot of shooters wanting to know why I don't get a a better rest system. I know it's coming someday, just not sure I'm quite ready for the change yet. I sure do enjoy driving when I shoot and never dreamed I could have so much fun shooting 22LR.
I have a decent front rest, however I never use it anymore. A bipod can be pretty stable in itself and it takes the cant out of the equation. However, a one piece integrated rest is a whole other level.Thank You Sir!!
I have a lot of shooters wanting to know why I don't get a a better rest system. I know it's coming someday, just not sure I'm quite ready for the change yet. I sure do enjoy driving when I shoot and never dreamed I could have so much fun shooting 22LR.
Ok, below is a September entry for my Vudoo. However, I was trying different ammuntion today as best I could before the winds got too switchy.
Shot September 6:
6X5 at 50 yards
Average = .252"
Best Group = .107"
Vudoo 360.
Ammuntion Eley Match.
This is the first time I shot that ammo and it cycled poorly in my gun and even loaded differently then SK or Lapua ammo. Mashed a few rounds during cycling the action. I do have the mags ramped (as per Vudoo) but it didn't make any difference for cycling.
Shot September 6:
6X5 at 50 yards
Average = .252"
Best Group = .107"
Vudoo 360.
Ammuntion Eley Match.
This is the first time I shot that ammo and it cycled poorly in my gun and even loaded differently then SK or Lapua ammo. Mashed a few rounds during cycling the action. I do have the mags ramped (as per Vudoo) but it didn't make any difference for cycling.
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Fine shooting!!!
Looks like the wind busted you on a couple groups. I don't have the feeding troubles with my single shot, but I also can't run a fast pace shooting event like PRS.
Shot September 6:
6X5 at 50 yards
Average = .250"
Best Group = .057"
KIDD 10/22.
Eley Benchrest SA
6X5 at 50 yards
Average = .250"
Best Group = .057"
KIDD 10/22.
Eley Benchrest SA
Hey!!! You finally hit the circle.
Now that right there will definitely make you feel good about your equipment.
Awesome!!
I think I have to back it up one day down the road as the Kidd is more like an upper .2X or .3 aggregate gun. The one group really brought the average down (as expected). A bit fluky and shot in ideal winds, but I'll take it as I have so many awesome groups that get spoiled by one round..Hey!!! You finally hit the circle.
Now that right there will definitely make you feel good about your equipment.
Awesome!!
thanks
PQ, I have all your scores posted. You have that Kidd working pretty good! Nice shooting! If I can ask, what is the lot number of the Eley Benchrest Semi-Auto you used?
Larry
Thank you.
I used lot 1222 - 04360 (1062).
However, I am scratching my head a bit related to ES and SD on this lot used from two seperate orderings / packages - same lot number but shot on different days. The only difference I can account for is the ambient temps were around a 55 degree lower and cloudy yesterday than the sunny and hot previous day's testing.
- On my last outing in August, my ES was 25 and SD's 7 for a ~25 shot sample size.
- Yesterday, same lot had a 28 shot sample size and the ES was 47 FPS and SD at 13.6.
- Oddly the highest chronied velocity was about the same on both days at (~ 1109 to 1111 FPS; and the Avg the same at 1086 FPS and 1099 FPS), but the low velocity was 1062 FPS on the colder day and the low was 1086 FPS on the warmer day.
-The low velocity readings are where the variance exists as the avg and hi velocities are close to the same. The colder day had a number of shots in the low 1070's with a low of 1062 FPs. Where the warmer day had the low shot at 1086 FPS.
- I haven't cleaned between either days. Is it possible that different boxes of the same lot number of ammunition can vary that much in ES and SD? Or ought I look elsewhere for the cause of the variance?
- I will post my 100 yard groups later, which suffered from the varying velocity spreads.
Baffled...your input appreciated.
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PQ, a couple of thoughts. First, you may be experiencing some box to box variation on the lot. That would not be unusual.
Maybe do a short study, use a new box, and reshoot at 50 yards. If the conditions match your hot or cool conditions, then see what the velocity data look like. In theory, either way, the data should match at least one of your hot or cool temp examples you've already shot? It could be that the lot is more a hot weather lot in your rifle, but if I had to guess, I would probably lean to the variation within the lot theory.
Let us know after you've tested what you find. Always interesting to see how these situations resolve with the data you will generate.
Good luck!
Larry
ok thanks for the info. I will test it again this weekend and see how things look.
Ok went out Tuesday this week to prepare for an upcoming PRS event and temps were essentially the same and had the odd / large ES and SD swings again with really low velocity readings which one can see in the odd target (vertical). Tested a few different boxes of same lot and it shot not too bad at 100m and 200m though. Could be my pocket FX chrony too, as it only picks up maybe every 2nd or 3rd shot - coudl be introducing an error in it?
After the Sept competitions / events are over, I will test another ammo for use as those spreads suck...
Eley SA Benchrest Precision:
Series 1: 58 Degrees F
Shot count: 5
Low: 1069 FPS
Hi: 1102 FPS
Avg: 1091 FPS
Spread: 33 FPS
STD Dev: 12.9 FPS
12-Sep-2023 12:05:59,1093,FPS,106.1,FT Lbs,
12-Sep-2023 12:06:44,1069,FPS,101.6,FT Lbs,
12-Sep-2023 12:09:18,1097,FPS,107.0,FT Lbs,
12-Sep-2023 12:09:22,1095,FPS,106.5,FT Lbs,
12-Sep-2023 12:09:54,1102,FPS,107.9,FT Lbs,
Series 2: 60 Degrees F
Shot count: 6
Low: 1051 FPS
Hi: 1104 FPS
Avg: 1077 FPS
Spread: 53 FPS
STD Dev: 16.9 FPS
12-Sep-2023 11:49:23,1051,FPS,98.1,FT Lbs,
12-Sep-2023 11:56:33,1104,FPS,108.3,FT Lbs,
12-Sep-2023 11:56:39,1076,FPS,102.9,FT Lbs,
12-Sep-2023 11:56:41,1079,FPS,103.4,FT Lbs,
12-Sep-2023 11:56:45,1079,FPS,103.4,FT Lbs,
12-Sep-2023 11:57:02,1074,FPS,102.5,FT Lbs,
Series 3: 60 Degrees F
Shot count: 17
Low: 1058 FPS
Hi: 1107 FPS
Avg: 1088 FPS
Spread: 49 FPS
STD Dev: 15.3 FPS
12-Sep-2023 12:23:21,1104,FPS,108.3,FT Lbs,
12-Sep-2023 12:23:33,1100,FPS,107.4,FT Lbs,
12-Sep-2023 12:23:49,1102,FPS,107.9,FT Lbs,
12-Sep-2023 12:24:17,1086,FPS,104.7,FT Lbs,
12-Sep-2023 12:24:22,1086,FPS,104.7,FT Lbs,
12-Sep-2023 12:24:28,1090,FPS,105.6,FT Lbs,
12-Sep-2023 12:24:38,1102,FPS,107.9,FT Lbs,
12-Sep-2023 12:29:52,1095,FPS,106.5,FT Lbs,
12-Sep-2023 12:30:01,1058,FPS,99.4,FT Lbs,
12-Sep-2023 12:32:46,1079,FPS,103.4,FT Lbs,
12-Sep-2023 12:33:13,1107,FPS,108.8,FT Lbs,
12-Sep-2023 12:33:46,1079,FPS,103.4,FT Lbs,
12-Sep-2023 12:33:50,1062,FPS,100.3,FT Lbs,
12-Sep-2023 12:34:00,1065,FPS,100.7,FT Lbs,
12-Sep-2023 12:34:53,1100,FPS,107.4,FT Lbs,
12-Sep-2023 12:34:57,1097,FPS,107.0,FT Lbs,
12-Sep-2023 12:35:00,1095,FPS,106.5,FT Lbs,
Randy, I have your score posted. Welcome back and good shooting! Can you tell me the lot number on your Eley Match? I can't read it in the picture.Unlimited Match
200/11X - Martini- 2500X/Eley Match on 09/18/23
Thanks,
Larry
Good shooting Sir!!Unlimited Match
200/11X - Martini- 2500X/Eley Match on 09/18/23
Larry,
The Eley Match is lot #1016-05192 with a factory reported speed of 1061. I've been shooting this lot in my Shilen barreled 2500X for some time but am getting to the end of my supply. Today is the first time I've shot since the auto accident six months ago and my subsequent foot surgeries. My concentration was poor and I'm far from being where I was pre-accident. My foot ached so badly after setting up flags and shooting that I was unable to shoot a second card and spent the rest of the day off my feet. In any event I have an appointment with the surgeon next week to see whether he recommends additional foot surgery.
Regardless, I'm just thankful to be able to shoot again.
Randy
Randy, good luck with your foot, and based on your target, you are shooting well! Take care, and I wish you the best!
Attached are today's targets. A small front blew through after the first 3 bulls on my factory rifle target bringing more wind than I could deal with but alas the rain went north of us. For the iron sights match, I shot my new to me vintage (manufactured in 1975, the year I graduated from the University of Oklahoma) Anschutz Match 54. Unfortunately the rifle upgrade didn't improve my eyesight so I was unable to beat my best score with my even more vintage Martini rook rifle.
Factory rifle 50 yards
196/8x - Martini - CZ457 MTR/SK Standard Plus on 9/19/23
Iron Sight 50 yards
195/2X - Martini- Anschutz 1411/Aguila Golden Eagle Match Pistol on 09/19/23
Factory rifle 50 yards
196/8x - Martini - CZ457 MTR/SK Standard Plus on 9/19/23
Iron Sight 50 yards
195/2X - Martini- Anschutz 1411/Aguila Golden Eagle Match Pistol on 09/19/23
Randy, your scores are posted.Attached are today's targets. A small front blew through after the first 3 bulls on my factory rifle target bringing more wind than I could deal with but alas the rain went north of us. For the iron sights match, I shot my new to me vintage (manufactured in 1975, the year I graduated from the University of Oklahoma) Anschutz Match 54. Unfortunately the rifle upgrade didn't improve my eyesight so I was unable to beat my best score with my even more vintage Martini rook rifle.
Factory rifle 50 yards
196/8x - Martini - CZ457 MTR/SK Standard Plus on 9/19/23
Iron Sight 50 yards
195/2X - Martini- Anschutz 1411/Aguila Golden Eagle Match Pistol on 09/19/23
Larry
God blessed us with a beautiful calm morning to shoot here in North Texas and I managed my person best ever score with a semi-auto.
Unlimited Match 50 Yards
200/6X - Martini- Custom 40X/Eley Club XTRA on 09/26/23
Match Grade Rifle 50 Yards
200/08X - Martini- Custom Ruger 10/22/Eley Semi-Auto Benchrest Precision on 09/26/23
Unlimited Match 50 Yards
200/6X - Martini- Custom 40X/Eley Club XTRA on 09/26/23
Match Grade Rifle 50 Yards
200/08X - Martini- Custom Ruger 10/22/Eley Semi-Auto Benchrest Precision on 09/26/23
Randy, I have your scores posted! Good shooting with your Ruger!God blessed us with a beautiful calm morning to shoot here in North Texas and I managed my person best ever score with a semi-auto.
Unlimited Match 50 Yards
200/6X - Martini- Custom 40X/Eley Club XTRA on 09/26/23
Match Grade Rifle 50 Yards
200/08X - Martini- Custom Ruger 10/22/Eley Semi-Auto Benchrest Precision on 09/26/23
Excellent shooting Sir!!God blessed us with a beautiful calm morning to shoot here in North Texas and I managed my person best ever score with a semi-auto.
Unlimited Match 50 Yards
200/6X - Martini- Custom 40X/Eley Club XTRA on 09/26/23
Match Grade Rifle 50 Yards
200/08X - Martini- Custom Ruger 10/22/Eley Semi-Auto Benchrest Precision on 09/26/23
