Wind down range adjustment

[silentnswift]

Shooting my 700 sps today, wind at rifle is almost nil. About 50 yards from rifle is a valley where the wind is gusting 5-8 mph. First 2 shots perfect, touching each other. Third shot flys half inch wide and quater inch high. Next four shoots perfect then again wide and high. How do you adjust for wind down range that is not constant? Is it even possible?

 

[FALex]

How far out was your target?

 

[silentnswift]

Target 150 yards out. 168 gr. FGMM.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Focus spotting scope to mid range (1/4 turn counter clockwise) and appraise mirage, velocity and direction. Bracketing for possible extremes of wind value should get you a good hit, having adjusted sights using appropriate formula for the wind as it was prevailing. Then finesse adjustment and shoot until wind changes in direction and velocity as seen by change of mirage appearance, holding fire until prevailing condition reappears. This will work at LR, as well as at SR; but, unless you are shooting something like the MR-31 target for X ring hits in a 10 plus mph condition, favoring for wind at the sort of distance you are shooting at is not needed. It may not be possible in fact to distinguish error produced by wind or rifle movement without being able to call your shots extremely well.

 

[Lowlight]

That wasn't the wind...

 

[silentnswift]

At what distance would wind become a major factor? I'm trying to learn to dope the wind, read mirage etc. any advice is greatly appreciated. As far as the flyers any words of wisdom. I know it's hard to diagnose someone's mistakes without seeing it first hand.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

At what distance would wind become a major factor? I'm trying to learn to dope the wind, read mirage etc. any advice is greatly appreciated. As far as the flyers any words of wisdom. I know it's hard to diagnose someone's mistakes without seeing it first hand.

Shooting the .223 in a 15 mph crosswind would move a bullet about 54 inches at 600 yards and about 1.5 inches at 100 yards. Which would you consider a major factor? Only a competitive shooter, shooting the MR-31 target at 100 yards, might have an interest in adjusting his sight to better assure a perfect score. On the other hand, a shooter not factoring the same wind while shooting at 600 would certainly miss most any target.

There is no such thing as a flyer. That would mean the bullet went in some direction other than where the barrel was pointed. There are only shots going on call and shots not going on call. Shots on call but not hitting where desired indicates proper sight adjustment but movement at the gun, ie poor trigger control. Shots off call may indicate incorrect sight adjustment for distance, slope, and wind and weather conditions. Shots on call and right-in-there indicates proper execution of the two firing tasks and everything else important to good shooting.

 

[silentnswift]

Thank you for the knowledge. Ill try again today and make sure in doing my part.

 

[Darkside-Six]

Shooting the .223 in a 15 mph crosswind would move a bullet about 54 inches at 600 yards and about 1.5 inches at 100 yards. Which would you consider a major factor? Only a competitive shooter, shooting the MR-31 target at 100 yards, might have an interest in adjusting his sight to better assure a perfect score. On the other hand, a shooter not factoring the same wind while shooting at 600 would certainly miss most any target.

There is no such thing as a flyer. That would mean the bullet went in some direction other than where the barrel was pointed. There are only shots going on call and shots not going on call. Shots on call but not hitting where desired indicates proper sight adjustment but movement at the gun, ie poor trigger control. Shots off call may indicate incorrect sight adjustment for distance, slope, and wind and weather conditions. Shots on call and right-in-there indicates proper execution of the two firing tasks and everything else important to good shooting.

You're always explaining things perfectly, and in manner that is easily understood.

 

[M40_A1]

There is no such thing as a flyer. That would mean the bullet went in some direction other than where the barrel was pointed.

And this cannot happen?

 

[Sterling Shooter]

And this cannot happen?

The bullet ALWAYS goes in the direction the barrel is pointed. When we begin with this fact we can understand that to hit the target we must know where the barrel is pointed. How do we know where the barrel is pointed? We know by properly pointing the rifle with consistent sight alignment. This is one of two principles of marksmanship. The other is pulling the trigger without moving the rifle utilizing smooth trigger control. Everything else supports these two principles.

Although not hitting where aimed will be traced by the marksman to not properly executing the two firing tasks (principles) the novice shooter will look at holes on his target and wonder why the bullet went where it did. This shooter does not it appears understand that the holes in the target are an indicator for where the barrel was pointed; and, therefore, instead of working on his marksmanship, making sight alignment more consistent and learning how to pull the trigger without disturbing aim, he will buy a higher power scope, more artifical supports, and a rifle that is perceived as being more accurate, in addition to spending more time fussing over his handloads. This sort of exercise gets the novice shooter nowhere but makes the gun store salesman happy.

The point of all of this is to get the novice shooter to realize good shooting is about knowledge, skill and attitude rather than equipment. Since the rifle does not know where it is pointed, the shooter is what's fundamental to good shooting.

 

[Erud]

The bullet ALWAYS goes in the direction the barrel is pointed. When we begin with this fact we can understand that to hit the target we must know where the barrel is pointed. How do we know where the barrel is pointed? We know by properly pointing the rifle with consistent sight alignment. This is one of two principles of marksmanship. The other is pulling the trigger without moving the rifle utilizing smooth trigger control. Everything else supports these two principles.

Although not hitting where aimed will be traced by the marksman to not properly executing the two firing tasks (principles) the novice shooter will look at holes on his target and wonder why the bullet went where it did. This shooter does not it appears understand that the holes in the target are an indicator for where the barrel was pointed; and, therefore, instead of working on his marksmanship, making sight alignment more consistent and learning how to pull the trigger without disturbing aim, he will buy a higher power scope, more artifical supports, and a rifle that is perceived as being more accurate, in addition to spending more time fussing over his handloads. This sort of exercise gets the novice shooter nowhere but makes the gun store salesman happy.

The point of all of this is to get the novice shooter to realize good shooting is about knowledge, skill and attitude rather than equipment. Since the rifle does not know where it is pointed, the shooter is what's fundamental to good shooting.

Always? So there is no such thing as a "flyer" at all? Under any circumstances? If that's the case, why are some rifles more accurate than others? Or are all rifles actually equal, and differing rifle accuracy is just a fallacy pushed by incompetent shooters who do not understand the call/strike corollary? I had a Kimber Montana .308 a few years ago that would randomly disperse all shots at 100 yards into a roughly 4" circle. The call and strike definitely did NOT correlate. How does that happen?

Please explain.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Broken rifle, defective ammunition, but you already knew that.

 

[Erud]

No, I didn't. The rifle went back to the factory 2 times and was sent back as being "within spec". All ammo was loaded to the same high standards as all of my ammo. Extensive load testing with various components, etc. Rounds would only end up in the "general" direction of where the barrel was pointed. Only an occasional correlation between call and strike. It just wasn't accurate.


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[Sterling Shooter]

No, I didn't. The rifle went back to the factory 2 times and was sent back as being "within spec". All ammo was loaded to the same high standards as all of my ammo. Extensive load testing with various components, etc. Rounds would only end up in the "general" direction of where the barrel was pointed. Only an occasional correlation between call and strike. It just wasn't accurate.


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Sorry about your luck. Let's review: You pointed the rifle at the target and hit the target. I'd say the bullet went in the direction the barrel was pointed. Not going where aimed you say the gun wasn't accurate. I'd say it was not satisfactory.

 

[Erud]

Ok, so you are just referring to the general direction. In that case I agree, if you point the rifle for instance, towards the west, the bullet will indeed "always" travel west, and there are no such things as flyers.


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[delfuego]

That wasn't the wind...

Check your parallax too.

 

[M40_A1]

There is no such thing as a flyer. That would mean the bullet went in some direction other than where the barrel was pointed.

The bullet ALWAYS goes in the direction the barrel is pointed.

These are two different statements. Obviously, a bullet GOES in the direction the barrel is pointed. But, between the barrel and target the bullet WENT somewhere. Even a bullet fired from a rigidly mounted test fixture can deviate from anticipated dispersion if that bullet is deformed. To me that is a "flier", and cannot be attributed to the shooter or rifle.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

These are two different statements. Obviously, a bullet GOES in the direction the barrel is pointed. But, between the barrel and target the bullet WENT somewhere. Even a bullet fired from a rigidly mounted test fixture can deviate from anticipated dispersion if that bullet is deformed. To me that is a "flier", and cannot be attributed to the shooter or rifle.

When the shooter brings a satisfactory rifle and ammunition to the firing line then all error is shooter error; and, therefore, there is no such thing as a flyer, since these errors are known to be a product of shooter inconsistency and/or not correctly countering for effects on trajectory. Interestingly, a shooter who cannot identify the source/sources of error can nevertheless correct by concentrating on the fundementals and correctly countering for effects on trajectory. An exception might be related to equipment failure while on the firing line but a shooter who understands the methodology of shooter/target analysis would easily be able to discern equipment or ammunition issues from shooter error.


Being able to recognize the source of error at the event helps a shooter to build consistency and get better results from work in progress. You've seen, I'm sure, novice shooters on the firing line who will miss their target but continue to miss the target since they do not understand how to make the proper correction. These folks can call the shot a flyer but it does not get them anywhere. Better to simply learn the meaning of the call to be able to do something about it.

 

[Jaeger308]

Shooting the .223 in a 15 mph crosswind would move a bullet about 54 inches at 600 yards and about 1.5 inches at 100 yards. Which would you consider a major factor? Only a competitive shooter, shooting the MR-31 target at 100 yards, might have an interest in adjusting his sight to better assure a perfect score. On the other hand, a shooter not factoring the same wind while shooting at 600 would certainly miss most any target.


There is no such thing as a flyer. That would mean the bullet went in some direction other than where the barrel was pointed. There are only shots going on call and shots not going on call. Shots on call but not hitting where desired indicates proper sight adjustment but movement at the gun, ie poor trigger control. Shots off call may indicate incorrect sight adjustment for distance, slope, and wind and weather conditions. Shots on call and right-in-there indicates proper execution of the two firing tasks and everything else important to good shooting.

"<o></o>
You post "The bullet ALWAYS goes in the direction the barrel is pointed" then post "15 mph crosswind would move a bullet about 54 inches at 600 yards"? So the barrel is pointed 54" off of POI using sight adjustments how can you say a bullet always goes in the direction the barrel is pointed? Line of departure is one thing bullet impact is another.


So things like Lateral throw off, Aerodynamic Jump (both wind and/or stability induced), Muzzle velocity deviations mean nothing to you? Yes we try very hard to minimize these factors but they are still there and will cause flyers it is up to you to judge to what tolerance these are acceptable but they do exist.<o></o>

 

[Sterling Shooter]

"<o></o>
You post "The bullet ALWAYS goes in the direction the barrel is pointed" then post "15 mph crosswind would move a bullet about 54 inches at 600 yards"? So the barrel is pointed 54" off of POI using sight adjustments how can you say a bullet always goes in the direction the barrel is pointed? Line of departure is one thing bullet impact is another.


So things like Lateral throw off, Aerodynamic Jump (both wind and/or stability induced), Muzzle velocity deviations mean nothing to you? Yes we try very hard to minimize these factors but they are still there and will cause flyers it is up to you to judge to what tolerance these are acceptable but they do exist.<o></o>

The bullet always goes in the direction the barrel is pointed. Since gravity, drag, wind and weather effect external ballistics, sight adjustment is necessary to counter for these effects; yet, the sights still give us recognition for where the rifle is pointed.If this were not true then sight adjustment would not counter effects on trajectory.

Let's look at this another way. Assume we can lay a rifle on a bench and fire it by remote control. Where will the bullet go? It will go where the barrel is pointed. Do we know where the barrel is pointed? No, we do not. So how do we know where the barrel is pointed? We properly point the rifle using consistent sight alignment.

 

[Jaeger308]

To the OP your accuracy spread at 150 yards was most assuredly caused by position and trigger control.
<O</O
Sterling you post a generic statement of a bullet goes in the direction the barrel is pointed, to new folks this is a poor explanation for them to begin their understanding. Yes the line of departure is the direction a bullet starts out, but once past the muzzle it is traveling on an ever changing 3 dimensional ballistic arc or in geometric terms a parabola. Sights are used to correlate the point of aim (aka line of sight) and the line of departure, both straight lines. Between these lines we try to fit the bullets ballistic arc with all of its variables, and there are many… Some of these variables cause “flyers” Also internal ballistic variables and bullet imperfections cause flyers to say there is no such thing is quite frankly wrong. As I posted already we do however try in minimize these as best we can. <O</O

 

[Sterling Shooter]

To the OP your accuracy spread at 150 yards was most assuredly caused by position and trigger control.
<O</O
Sterling you post a generic statement of a bullet goes in the direction the barrel is pointed, to new folks this is a poor explanation for them to begin their understanding. Yes the line of departure is the direction a bullet starts out, but once past the muzzle it is traveling on an ever changing 3 dimensional ballistic arc or in geometric terms a parabola. Sights are used to correlate the point of aim (aka line of sight) and the line of departure, both straight lines. Between these lines we try to fit the bullets ballistic arc with all of its variables, and there are many… Some of these variables cause “flyers” Also internal ballistic variables and bullet imperfections cause flyers to say there is no such thing is quite frankly wrong. As I posted already we do however try in minimize these as best we can. <O</O

The bullet always going in the direction the barrel is pointed is a concept presented by the the USAMU, in their basic marksmanship instruction to shooters taking the SDM course. It is presented as a fact, which it is, to cause the novice shooter to notice that execution of the two firing tasks is not the equivalent of knowing how to shoot. Being presented with the fact that the bullet always goes in the direction the barrel is pointed brings these shooters to the reality of what good shooting is all about: properly pointing the rifle with consistent sight alignment. If you think this is poor instruction you might want to revisit the topic as the success of the SDM program is as undeniable as it is indisputable.

 

[M40_A1]

If you think this is poor instruction you might want to revisit the topic as the success of the SDM program is as undeniable as it is indisputable.

It is your statement that "there is no such thing as a flier" that is disputable. The fact that you had to add a qualifier "When the shooter brings a satisfactory rifle and ammunition..." implies the possibility that a flier can exist in the real world after all.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

It is your statement that "there is no such thing as a flier" that is disputable. The fact that you had to add a qualifier "When the shooter brings a satisfactory rifle and ammunition..." implies the possibility that a flier can exist in the real world after all.

The word flyer is another word for bad, but implies that there is no explanation for the result. That's the only implication here. And, although the shooter may not know the source of error, there is indeed a reason for not hitting the target where desired, whether or not the shooter understands it; thus, there is no such thing as a flyer, since there is always a physical reason for shot misplacement. A satisfactory rifle and ammunition does not imply that a flyer can exist.The concept of satisfactory instead actually dispels the notion of a flyer. If the rifle is broken or ammunition is defective the result has an explanation. If the rifle is not broken and the ammunition is not defective the result has an explanation.

Let's look at the typical use of the word flyer. The shooter says, "that shot was a called flyer". Now break it down, if the shooter actually did call the misplaced shot then the shot went where the shooter thought it went. There is an explanation for that, movement of the rifle. Now, since there is an explanation it cannot be a flyer. But if you want to express bad shots as flyers whose stopping you. I am not looking for you to agree with my opinion. I don't care. I don't use the word flyer because it does not serve marksmanship instruction. It has no place in the lexicon of marksmanship.

 

[M40_A1]

....thus, there is no such thing as a flyer, since there is always a physical reason for shot misplacement.

A "physical reason" does not invalidate the legitimate use of the term.

A satisfactory rifle and ammunition does not imply that a flyer can exist.

By default, it does, as it implies the existence of an "unsatisfactory rifle" and/or "unsatisfactory ammunition".

"When the shooter brings a satisfactory rifle and ammunition to the firing line then all error is shooter error; and, therefore, there is no such thing as a flyer, since these errors are known to be a product of shooter inconsistency and/or not correctly countering for effects on trajectory."

Nothing is "known" in an imperfect world. Even top quality ammunition can be faulty. The rest of the world understands what a flier is, and that they can and do exist in reality. To really think there's no such thing as a flier is ludicrous. JMO.

edit:
I know you know your stuff when it comes to marksmanship. I highly respect you for that and read your posts with that in mind. I want to make that clear. But, just because each and every bullet does not go through the exact same hole does not mean it has to be the shooter's fault. The world is just not so perfect that the shooter is always to blame for a group that is not a single hole. You have to allow for outside variables from time to time.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

A "physical reason" does not invalidate the legitimate use of the term.



By default, it does, as it implies the existence of an "unsatisfactory rifle" and "unsatisfactory ammo".

"When the shooter brings a satisfactory rifle and ammunition to the firing line then all error is shooter error; and, therefore, there is no such thing as a flyer, since these errors are known to be a product of shooter inconsistency and/or not correctly countering for effects on trajectory."

B.S. Nothing is "known" in an imperfect world. Even top quality ammunition can be faulty. The rest of the world understands what a flier is, and that they can and do exist in reality. To say there's no such thing as a flier is ludicrous. JMO.

"Top quality ammunition can be faulty" is an example of an explanation; and, since all errors have an explanation, whether the shooter has the wherewithal to analyze it correctly or not, there are no flyers. It's a lousy word. A word that better describes a shot not going where desired is simply to say the shot was bad, as in the shot out of the grouping was bad shot. It serves marksmanship instruction better than using the word flyer, as in the shot out of the grouping was a flyer. A novice shooter can take an action on a bad shot. He may not take an action on a flyer since it suggests the mystery is acceptable; thing is, there is no mystery. Maybe you might want to consider using the word bad instead of flyer to describe misplaced shots. Would you not agree that bad shot can be used to describe anything you would call a flyer?

 

[M40_A1]

...there are no flyers. It's a lousy word. A word that better describes a shot not going where desired is simply to say the shot was bad...A novice shooter can take an action on a bad shot.

So, a "flier" is a "bad shot", yet there is such a thing as one, but no such thing as the other, and a shooter can take action on one, but cannot take action on the other, though they are the same thing in different terms. This would be ridiculous semantics, except that now I think I see the terms are being confused.

A "bad shot" says nothing as to whether the shot is "bad" due to shooter error, or to a bullet's deviant trajectory. "Flier" does not imply there was not a reason for the deviant flight path. I don't know anyone who thinks that a flier cannot be explained WERE THE REASON BUT KNOWN. Sometimes the reason can be determined, and sometimes it can't, but there's always a reason for a flier even if it cannot readily be explained. A flier is a type of bad shot, but a bad shot is not always a flier. They are not one in the same.

I understand that with a quality rifle and quality ammunition a marksmanship coach HAS TO assume any shot outside of expected dispersion is a "bad shot" due to shooter error for the sake of instruction. But that does not mean that there is "no such thing as a flier" in reality. You may want to use another term for it, but most understand a "flier" is a "bad shot" that is not due to shooter error.

 

[Jaeger308]

So let me get this straight, using your example we lay a rifle on a bench holding it in place somehow, remote control it to fire round one, this round impacts somewhere. Then conditions change the wind falls off or switches, we fire round two. The barrel has not moved its direction so round two will hit the same point of impact? Really? That is what you are saying with “the round goes where the barrel is pointed”. Unless we adjust the sights for changing conditions with proper sight picture and sight alignment which....wait for it, changes the direction the barrel is pointed it is not fact. Just because the USAMU writes something or used something does not make it right, for years the army was incorrect on humidity effects, it just kept getting rewritten until a few years ago. <o></o>

 

[Sterling Shooter]

So, a "flier" is a "bad shot", yet there is such a thing as one, but no such thing as the other, and a shooter can take action on one, but cannot take action on the other, though they are the same thing in different terms. This would be ridiculous semantics, except that now I think I see the terms are being confused.

A "bad shot" says nothing as to whether the shot is "bad" due to shooter error, or to a bullet's deviant trajectory. "Flier" does not imply there was not a reason for the deviant flight path. I don't know anyone who thinks that a flier cannot be explained WERE THE REASON BUT KNOWN. Sometimes the reason can be determined, and sometimes it can't, but there's always a reason for a flier even if it cannot readily be explained. A flier is a type of bad shot, but a bad shot is not always a flier. They are not one in the same.

I understand that with a quality rifle and quality ammunition a marksmanship coach HAS TO assume any shot outside of expected dispersion is a "bad shot" due to shooter error for the sake of instruction. But that does not mean that there is "no such thing as a flier" in reality. You may want to use another term for it, but most understand a "flier" is a "bad shot" that is not due to shooter error.

An error, whether caused by a broken rifle, defective ammunition, shooter inconsistency and/or not correctly countering for effects on trajectory, is correctly called a bad shot, bad hit, or bad strike. That is the factual result. A flier is not a factual result since there is always a reason for the poor shooting, even though the shooter may not be knowledgeable of it. The shooter who says that was a called flier is a novice shooter. An experienced shooter would say something like that shot did not go on call. From there he would consider the reasons for such an error: not correctly adjusting for distance, wind or weather conditions, loose sights ( broken gun), defective ammunition, etc. Thing is, the experienced shooter is not likely to come to the firing line with either a broken rifle or defective ammunition so troubleshooting would not start there but instead with consideration for not having properly adjusted the sight for wind and weather conditions.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

So let me get this straight, using your example we lay a rifle on a bench holding it in place somehow, remote control it to fire round one, this round impacts somewhere. Then conditions change the wind falls off or switches, we fire round two. The barrel has not moved its direction so round two will hit the same point of impact? Really? That is what you are saying with “the round goes where the barrel is pointed”. Unless we adjust the sights for changing conditions with proper sight picture and sight alignment which....wait for it, changes the direction the barrel is pointed it is not fact. Just because the USAMU writes something or used something does not make it right, for years the army was incorrect on humidity effects, it just kept getting rewritten until a few years ago. <o></o>

You might want to go back to the post you are paraphrasing and read it again, since you appear to not be able to get it straight. If you had comprehended it you would have concluded we understand where the barrel is pointed from properly aligning the sights, period. Without proper alignment we do not know where the rifle is pointed and therefore we will not have the desired result. Also, I think I would prefer to get my marksmanship instruction/guidance from those who clearly know how to do it than from others without such experience. If you think the USAMU is wrong then you too might want to do it wrong as it appears from their record they are doing it better than most others.

This is my last post on this matter. My time here is a luxury and at this point I have expended all I can expend on such matters. For any here having views that contrast with my contributions I appreciate hearing how you see it, that's to say, perspectives other than mine.

Go to You Tube USAMU Basic Marksmanship Rifleman's Course Part 1. You'll see a presentation which points out the fact that the bullet always goes in the direction the barrel is pointed and what we can conclude from that fact.

 

[M40_A1]

An error, whether caused by a broken rifle, defective ammunition, shooter inconsistency and/or not correctly countering for effects on trajectory, is correctly called a bad shot, bad hit, or bad strike.

No disagreement there. This was not even the question.

A flier is not a factual result since there is always a reason for the poor shooting, even though the shooter may not be knowledgeable of it.

You're the ONLY one saying that "flier" implies there's "no reason" for this type of "bad shot" and is not a "factual result". I'm at a loss as to why.

The shooter who says that was a called flier is a novice shooter. An experienced shooter would say something like that shot did not go on call. From there he would consider the reasons for such an error: not correctly adjusting for distance, wind or weather conditions, loose sights ( broken gun), defective ammunition, etc.

No problem there either. Now, since you say a shooter can "take action" on a "bad shot" (meaning any "bad shot"), how does one "take action" for defective ammunition if the ammunition was not known to be defective before the shot was taken?

 

[Sterling Shooter]

I had an experience a few years ago with defective ammunition. I called the shot right-in-there and re-built my position to shoot again while my target was being serviced. Then, my score keeper told me my target had not yet been pulled into the pit to be marked. I called for the target to be pulled and it came up shortly thereafter showing a miss. I challenged but the target came up again still marked as a miss. My score keeper said it appeared to him as he followed the trace that the bullet came apart. This turned out to be true. That round and some others I had loaded had defective jackets which I had just not noticed.

Now, to the question you asked, "how does one take action for defective ammunition if the ammunition was not known to be defective before the shot was taken?" Preparation is the action before the shot. The action after the shot for defective ammunition such as that I was shooting was to inspect the rest of my ammunition. Fortunately, I had enough good ammunition to not loose any more points from bad ammunition but I still lost, only shooting a 188 and something. At any rate, this is an actual scenario where the word flier was never used to describe anything about any of it. I knew from my call that troubleshooting would need to include inspection of both the rifle and ammunition since the wind was prevailing at about 3 mph through my string up till the miss and I had correctly countered for it. In general, I not only inspect ammunition but test it before match day since matches are too much work and costly to not come prepared.

 

[M40_A1]

At any rate, this is an actual scenario where the word flier was never used to describe anything about any of it.

In that particular case you wouldn't have gone to hell if you had used the "F" word, Sterling. That was a golden opportunity to use it properly.

Hey, like you, I think I'm done with this. Not using the "F" word when coaching is good policy. I get it. Take care.