8.6 Blk reloading info

MalbecMan · Jul 25, 2023

So, I'm having a really shit time with Firehole Arms (aka: Black Ammo Matters) hunting subsonics. The first round I chambered in my bolt gun was tight, but not alarmingly so. When I pulled the trigger, the shot was very clearly NOT SUBSONIC and I heard that hair-raising "Wiizzzzzz" sound of what I thought was a ricochet. I thought, A: Weird that it was tight chamber; B: not subsonic; C: my backstop is a 10' x 8' x 4' dirt mound, so why the ricohet. Minding my thoughts, I went to eject the case . . . stuck! After several vain attempts, I just let it cool off and then got out the shell. The firing pin dent was perfect, but the base of the case had clear bolt lift signs.
Fast forward 3 weeks, I run out of the Gorilla Hunt rounds, so I chamber one of the Firehole Arms hunting subs again. This goes in fine, and was actually subsonic, but on trying to eject the round, the bolt won't budge at all. "Well, you're an idiot!" I think as I remember the previous incident, and let it cool off. 30 minutes later, after sitting in a 68F room for half an hour, the bolt still won't budge. It took me 10 minutes and a resin mallet to open up the chamber. The case would not eject from the bolt face, so I had to take the bolt out. After about 30 minutes of trying various methods (edge of counter, vice and mallet, vice-grips, torch), I concluded the case had fire-formed to my bolt face. It is currently at a gunsmith. See pics below.
Has anyone else had issue with this ammo? It appears the first round was supersonic and spun apart, resulting in the "wiz" sound (there was no hole on paper and no dent in the dirt mound). My barrel is a Faxon barrel, so I would think it was the standard chamber. Any ideas what happened? Sorry if this seems like an elementary question, but if this is a round manufacturing issue (other people have similar experiences), Firehole needs to be aware (I emailed them pictures and the above story yesterday).

DacianMH · Jul 25, 2023

MalbecMan said:
So, I'm having a really shit time with Firehole Arms (aka: Black Ammo Matters) hunting subsonics. The first round I chambered in my bolt gun was tight, but not alarmingly so. When I pulled the trigger, the shot was very clearly NOT SUBSONIC and I heard that hair-raising "Wiizzzzzz" sound of what I thought was a ricochet. I thought, A: Weird that it was tight chamber; B: not subsonic; C: my backstop is a 10' x 8' x 4' dirt mound, so why the ricohet. Minding my thoughts, I went to eject the case . . . stuck! After several vain attempts, I just let it cool off and then got out the shell. The firing pin dent was perfect, but the base of the case had clear bolt lift signs.
Fast forward 3 weeks, I run out of the Gorilla Hunt rounds, so I chamber one of the Firehole Arms hunting subs again. This goes in fine, and was actually subsonic, but on trying to eject the round, the bolt won't budge at all. "Well, you're an idiot!" I think as I remember the previous incident, and let it cool off. 30 minutes later, after sitting in a 68F room for half an hour, the bolt still won't budge. It took me 10 minutes and a resin mallet to open up the chamber. The case would not eject from the bolt face, so I had to take the bolt out. After about 30 minutes of trying various methods (edge of counter, vice and mallet, vice-grips, torch), I concluded the case had fire-formed to my bolt face. It is currently at a gunsmith. See pics below.
Has anyone else had issue with this ammo? It appears the first round was supersonic and spun apart, resulting in the "wiz" sound (there was no hole on paper and no dent in the dirt mound). My barrel is a Faxon barrel, so I would think it was the standard chamber. Any ideas what happened? Sorry if this seems like an elementary question, but if this is a round manufacturing issue (other people have similar experiences), Firehole needs to be aware (I emailed them pictures and the above story yesterday).

Firehole uses converted brass. This is why i dont offer that anymore and only offer new brass. You still have to neck turn even the Hornady 6.5 Creedmoor brass because neck wall thickness should still be no more than .012” to give enough clearance. A loaded round’s neck should measure .362 for the Q spec .366” neck in the chamber. Also converted brass doesn't have the fireformed shoulder so its slightly rounded. They’re still trying to figure it out, but converted brass isnt what I would recommend unless it's properly prepped by someone who has all the right equipment to anneal, size with at least a .004” shoulder bump, trim, and chamfer. I also check every single round in a ammo checker before its sent out.

Sizmic · Jul 26, 2023

Just my data in a 16” faxon barrel rem 700. I really like n320 and n110.

DacianMH · Aug 4, 2023

Stangman46 said:
Thanks for the info, and advice. I have a mixed bag of brass. I bought some off the internet. I have neck turned all that I have worked on. The Hornady is the only one I have that did not require turning. All the specs you listed are on par. I am hesitant to get into the shoulder, due to some having the case separate there! I was doing some checking and marked a few pieces of brass with black marker. I put them in the chamber and turned them back and forth. They all left marks where the shoulder meets the neck! So I believe that getting into the shoulder may be the ticket. I also checked the depth of different cases in the chamber, and found them as much as .025” difference. I am measuring off the end of the chamber to a straight edge across the top of the barrel. The brass seems to be very inconsistent. I am using Lee dies to do a final sizing after neck turning and aneling. Not sure why the depth is so different!?!

Springback. its more obvious with the Lee sizing die than the Hornady sizing die because of the shape of the expander. Just give it a little more shoulder bump and after a few firings it should fireform. Maybe skim with the neck turner slightly to take off the excess that flows up the case towards the case mouth. After about the 3rd or 4th firing (if its loaded subsonic) it should be fireformed.

45-90 · Aug 4, 2023

I have the 8.6 Blackout but not necessarily a fan.
I make cases out of 308, 6 5 Creedmoor, 30-06, 270,...the best is 300 Savage.
All cases must be machined into the shoulder plus to thin it out, as it's neck turned in a lathe, with a sharp carbide OD lathe tool ground with a 30° angle, with a radius honed in the neck/ shoulder junction...and measured. Then there will be no problem with them sticking in the chamber. Imr 4198 & 300 gr Burger was lower SD with decent accuracy and 300 SMK with 1680 was good accuracy wise but larger SD
I find it kind of a worthless caliber, too much capacity for subs to little capacity for supers to be effective. With the 300 grs it's a fun, but expensive subsonic pinker, wasting good 300 gr Berger bullets.
Except for lobbing 300 gr Match bullets at moderate range targets, with flatter trajectory,...I find the 450 Bushmaster AR 15 to be a better tool, light weight, brass available, a larger variety of, 451, 452, and 458 resized bullets to choose from....and over 3000 ft lb of muzzle energy out of a light AR 15 16" barrel...and much more effective at close range..with the 16 twist shooting 502 gr cast has way more subsonic energy delivered with a larger hole, at close subsonic ranges...and much more fun plinking. I use them both...
Building a 30 RAR, waiting on reamer, supers only, machined down a 12 twist Rem Varmint barrel to slim AR profile, for the project...made forming dies,...just for fun...will it be worthwhile...maybe, maybe not.

MSBRPT · Aug 4, 2023

45-90 said:
I have the 8.6 Blackout but not necessarily a fan.
I make cases out of 308, 6 5 Creedmoor, 30-06, 270,...the best is 300 Savage.
All cases must be machined into the shoulder plus to thin it out, as it's neck turned in a lathe, with a sharp carbide OD lathe tool ground with a 30° angle, with a radius honed in the neck/ shoulder junction...and measured. Then there will be no problem with them sticking in the chamber. Imr 4198 & 300 gr Burger was lower SD with decent accuracy and 300 SMK with 1680 was good accuracy wise but larger SD
I find it kind of a worthless caliber, too much capacity for subs to little capacity for supers to be effective. With the 300 grs it's a fun, but expensive subsonic pinker, wasting good 300 gr Berger bullets.
Except for lobbing 300 gr Match bullets at moderate range targets, with flatter trajectory,...I find the 450 Bushmaster AR 15 to be a better tool, light weight, brass available, a larger variety of, 451, 452, and 458 resized bullets to choose from....and over 3000 ft lb of muzzle energy out of a light AR 15 16" barrel...and much more effective at close range..with the 16 twist shooting 502 gr cast has way more subsonic energy delivered with a larger hole, at close subsonic ranges...and much more fun plinking. I use them both...
Building a 30 RAR, waiting on reamer, supers only, machined down a 12 twist Rem Varmint barrel to slim AR profile, for the project...made forming dies,...just for fun...will it be worthwhile...maybe, maybe not.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t 30 RAR require a different bolt face, upper and require a special follower in the magazine?

45-90 · Aug 4, 2023

MSBRPT said:
Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t 30 RAR require a different bolt face, uppend require a special follower in the magazine?

it

MSBRPT said:
Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t 30 RAR require a different bolt face, upper and require a special follower in the magazine?

All depends on what you're trying to accomplish...easiest for a 40,000 psi AR 15 just use 450 bushmaster brass, bolt, and mags. The 6.5 grendel mags will work, with slight modifications. Make some forming die in the lathe, neck down from 45 to 35 with a 25° shoulder. Trim to length and run 30 cal die. Turn case necks. Could turn all the case heads down to grendel bolt size and add an extractor groove ...it would be really rebated, for a slightly stronger bolt, like the 458 socom or 22 Nosler. Depends on what you want to do with the components available or make your own. I'm chambering a old Remington 700 varmint barrel for this project. The barrel is already profiled for AR 15, waiting on reamer and barrel extension. Everything else "homemade" including the muzzle brake.

MSBRPT · Aug 5, 2023

45-90 said:
it
All depends on what you're trying to accomplish...easiest for a 40,000 psi AR 15 just use 450 bushmaster brass, bolt, and mags. The 6.5 grendel mags will work, with slight modifications. Make some forming die in the lathe, neck down from 45 to 35 with a 25° shoulder. Trim to length and run 30 cal die. Turn case necks. Could turn all the case heads down to grendel bolt size and add an extractor groove ...it would be really rebated, for a slightly stronger bolt, like the 458 socom or 22 Nosler. Depends on what you want to do with the components available or make your own. I'm chambering a old Remington 700 varmint barrel for this project. The barrel is already profiled for AR 15, waiting on reamer and barrel extension. Everything else "homemade" including the muzzle brake.

Sounds like a lot.

Dave__th3__ss · Aug 31, 2023

Finally getting around to working up some loads. I have Maker Bullets 220gr T-rex bullets I'm trying to figure a starting load to work some supers up.
I see a lot of sub data for the round(i know that's what it was made for). i have AA1680, varget and CFEBLK on hand. rifle is a 16" faxon barrel/1:3 T/ unsuppressed
would prefer to use cfe blk or varget as it seems to be the most temp stable powder that I've read of being used in 8.6 loads. I'm not apposed to the 1680.
I'll be using the rifle to hunt coyotes over the winter. Don't want to have to mess around with load adjustment and stuff during hunting season.

Scrolled the thread and seen some good info but really no update on performance or data

any guidance would greatly be appreciated.

Stanprophet · Sep 3, 2023

Has anyone had any issues with the 300gr SMK coming apart yet at sub speeds?

I see there have been some Lapua and some Hornady come apart. Looking at the ELD-M and SMK to see if anyone has had any issues.

I am preparing some components for a bolt-action sub gun. The barrel is 16" for now, I plan on picking up an action to SBR and then grabbing the 12" bbl.

I have also been looking at the Barned 285gr LRX, since it is not a jacketed round. I am not averse to buying some nice monolithic for hunting but it would be nice to have a good bullet that is not crazy expensive for ringing steel.

MSBRPT · Sep 3, 2023

Stanprophet said:
Has anyone had any issues with the 300gr SMK coming apart yet at sub speeds?

I see there have been some Lapua and some Hornady come apart. Looking at the ELD-M and SMK to see if anyone has had any issues.

I am preparing some components for a bolt-action sub gun. The barrel is 16" for now, I plan on picking up an action to SBR and then grabbing the 12" bbl.

I have also been looking at the Barned 285gr LRX, since it is not a jacketed round. I am not averse to buying some nice monolithic for hunting but it would be nice to have a good bullet that is not crazy expensive for ringing steel.

No issues with 300 SMKs ripping apart or Lapuas. I actually found that the Lapuas were more accurate and consistent than the SMK. I’ve been keeping my MV between 900-1000 fps.

45-90 · Sep 4, 2023

Stanprophet said:
Has anyone had any issues with the 300gr SMK coming apart yet at sub speeds?

I see there have been some Lapua and some Hornady come apart. Looking at the ELD-M and SMK to see if anyone has had any issues.

I am preparing some components for a bolt-action sub gun. The barrel is 16" for now, I plan on picking up an action to SBR and then grabbing the 12" bbl.

I have also been looking at the Barned 285gr LRX, since it is not a jacketed round. I am not averse to buying some nice monolithic for hunting but it would be nice to have a good bullet that is not crazy expensive for ringing steel.

No, if kept subsonic, the 300 gr Berger and 300 SMK were the most accurate in my 16" barrel...keep 285 ELDM below 1400 fps ...at 1400fps they did not make it to the 50 yd target.
Shoot without a muzzle device as they blow up as soon as they leave the confines of the barrel and destroy the muzzle device and the magneto speed bayonet.
My two best loads are 300 gr Berger 15.8 gr imr 4189 very consistent, and 300 gr SMK 15.8 gr Accurate 1680 are both accurate. And just about the only ones worth considering as this is a subsonic caliber, with too much capacity for subs and too little for high velocity. Plus lighter lead bullets blow up and copper too slow be of any use and inaccurate in the 3 twist. IMO...the 8 6 Blackout is a fun expensive 300 gr 338 Sub plinker.

45-90 · Sep 4, 2023

Fired a high velocity 2000 fps lead 225 gr bullet about 18" to 24" from a big cardboard box aiming for the center...not only did the bullet explode the throw bullet fragments into the center but both outsides of the large box were hit with bullet fragments. Dangerous for anyone standing slightly in front of the muzzle.

45-90 · Sep 4, 2023

The 3 twist 8.6 can be very be dangerous, and why I say stay subsonic mostly, only venture into supers with solid copper. Test with out the muzzle device attached. As this is what happened on the first super sonic load from the Faxon Web site with lead bullets they recommend with Accurate 1680...a few hundred dollars in damage in one shot...had to buy a new MagnetoSpeed bayonet too.

45-90 · Sep 4, 2023

I make 8.6 blackout out of every 308 based case , 30-06, 25-06. 270, 308, 6.5 Creedmoor, but 300 Savage was easiest. I have trimming down to one second cutting time on any length case and home built sizing die takes the brass down in one quick pass. And the necks must be turned into the shoulder and sometimes, .008" off the shoulder at 30°. And each checked for headspace. Then absolutely no problems with the brass.

45-90 · Sep 4, 2023

This is the into the neck turning process, nice and fast...for those who have access to a lathe.

Stanprophet · Sep 4, 2023

Kind of off topic but on the subject of neck turning. So I reload quite a bit and for some wildcats like 357 Harret, 6 Dasher, and soon to be 8.6. I have not done any neck-turning, I just never really had the need to do it. I do have an annealing machine, and use that for brass on my match guns, I am running a full length die for my dasher and neck bushing and seem to get single digit SD with it, and the rifle has shot under 1/4 MOA at 100, and last 2 times out at long range put down a 4" group at 1191 yards. Anyway, my Father used to fix clocks and has a couple of Watchmakers and clock lathes lying around in his garage. I really do not see why I could not use one of those for neck turning if I need to. I have a ton of 6.5 Federal brass from when I started shooting matches so that is what I plan to use to make 8.6 Blk. Appreciate the insight posted above!

45-90 · Sep 5, 2023

Stanprophet said:
Kind of off topic but on the subject of neck turning. So I reload quite a bit and for some wildcats like 357 Harret, 6 Dasher, and soon to be 8.6. I have not done any neck-turning, I just never really had the need to do it. I do have an annealing machine, and use that for brass on my match guns, I am running a full length die for my dasher and neck bushing and seem to get single digit SD with it, and the rifle has shot under 1/4 MOA at 100, and last 2 times out at long range put down a 4" group at 1191 yards. Anyway, my Father used to fix clocks and has a couple of Watchmakers and clock lathes lying around in his garage. I really do not see why I could not use one of those for neck turning if I need to. I have a ton of 6.5 Federal brass from when I started shooting matches so that is what I plan to use to make 8.6 Blk. Appreciate the insight posted above!

Most any lathe of reasonable size would work, have them show you the basics of the lathes operation, and tool grinding, if you're not familiar with simple lathe operation. It's just so much faster and precise than the hand tools that ware out your hands.

Dave__th3__ss · Sep 5, 2023

. i just started working a load for my16" 8.6 black. i plan on hunting with it this winter. it gets pretty cold here. hoping to be able to shoot supersonic rounds. but looking to use a temp stable powder. id prefer to use varget. currently have 210gr ttsx and maker 220 gr bullets. i was going to start super low with varget because of the burn rate being so slow. i was thinking 20 grs of varget going up .2 increments.

safe or stupid?

45-90 · Sep 6, 2023

Dave__th3__ss said:
. i just started working a load for my16" 8.6 black. i plan on hunting with it this winter. it gets pretty cold here. hoping to be able to shoot supersonic rounds. but looking to use a temp stable powder. id prefer to use varget. currently have 210gr ttsx and maker 220 gr bullets. i was going to start super low with varget because of the burn rate being so slow. i was thinking 20 grs of varget going up .2 increments.

safe or stupid?

Yep, sounds good to me...for what it's worth.
May get up to 31 grs with the 210 gr ... Maybe a couple more grains like 35! ...depending on how deep the copper bullets are seated. Just go slow & check for pressure. I do it quite often with wildcats,

Dave__th3__ss · Sep 6, 2023

45-90 said:
Yep, sounds good to me...for what it's worth.
May get up to 31 grs with the 210 gr ... Maybe a couple more grains like 35! ...depending on how deep the copper bullets are seated. Just go slow & check for pressure. I do it quite often with wildcats,

I’m seating them at 2.650 per the 8.6 load data. But will adjust as needed
I just can’t believe there’s no one that has load a good temp stable powder for this Round yet
for supers.

Stanprophet · Sep 7, 2023

When I looked at the Makers bullets they had some language about not using them in 1-3 twist barrels. Seems a bunch of people are having them open up coming out. They look really good. Just an FYI to be cautious.

ETA: I see they have 8.6 specific bullets so Disregard.

Dave__th3__ss · Sep 8, 2023

***No muzzle devices were harmed in the gathering of this data ***
Finally was able to gather some data on the maker 220 gr trex for the 8.6 blkout. there were no pressure signs at max charge weight i loaded of 28gr. going to load some a touch hotter to see about finding another load with some more SPEED behind it. more data will be posted soon. also a few other loads will follow in a seperate post

platform- 16" gas gun
elevation-1407'
temp-69-70 degrees
Powder- AA1680
COAL-2.650
START- 26.0gr @ 1756 fps
26.2gr @ 1808 fps
26.4gr @ 1823 fps
26.6gr @ 1820 fps
26.8gr @ 1826 fps
27.0gr @ 1844 fps
27.2gr @ 1859 fps
27.4gr @ 1859 fps
27.6gr @ 1871 fps
27.8gr @ 1878 fps
28.0gr @ 1894 fps

Stanprophet · Sep 8, 2023

Dave__th3__ss said:
***No muzzle devices were harmed in the gathering of this data ***
Finally was able to gather some data on the maker 220 gr trex for the 8.6 blkout. there were no pressure signs at max charge weight i loaded of 28gr. going to load some a touch hotter to see about finding another load with some more SPEED behind it. more data will be posted soon. also a few other loads will follow in a seperate post

platform- 16" gas gun
elevation-1407'
temp-69-70 degrees
Powder- AA1680
COAL-2.650
START- 26.0gr @ 1756 fps
26.2gr @ 1808 fps
26.4gr @ 1823 fps
26.6gr @ 1820 fps
26.8gr @ 1826 fps
27.0gr @ 1844 fps
27.2gr @ 1859 fps
27.4gr @ 1859 fps
27.6gr @ 1871 fps
27.8gr @ 1878 fps
28.0gr @ 1894 fps

Looks like based on the velocity there are at least 2 possible accuracy nodes in that data that might be good to investigate.

Dave__th3__ss · Sep 8, 2023

Stanprophet said:
Looks like based on the velocity there are at least 2 possible accuracy nodes in that data that might be good to investigate.

Exactly my thoughts and already written down.

but with no pressure signs or other issues I’m going to load a touch hotter to see if i can find a faster node

45-90 · Sep 8, 2023

Stanprophet said:
When I looked at the Makers bullets they had some language about not using them in 1-3 twist barrels. Seems a bunch of people are having them open up coming out. They look really good. Just an FYI to be cautious.

ETA: I see they have 8.6 specific bullets so Disregard.

If Maker says do not use in 8.6 Blackout... Do Not use in 8.6 Blackout...they are bullets for other 338 calibers that do not have a 3 twist!!!..Use only the bullet made for the 8.6 Blackout with subsonic speeds Only!

45-90 · Sep 9, 2023

Cheap 338 lead bullets like Speer 200 gr can be used in the 8.6 blackout 3 twist if kept subsonic, it actually stayed together to 1600 fps..one of the best, for a lead bullet and cheap for plinking... The 285 Eldm must not reach 1400 fps, as it comes apart there. I ran the 225 Hornady copper tipped bullet to 1900 fps, but unimpressive accuracy, and unimpressive velocities for supers....and outside the performance velocities of these bullets which starts at 2500 fps minimum. Might as well use a FMJ as the bullet carries no expansion at 8.6 blackout speeds. Came to the conclusion that if ya want supers, get a 338 Federal.
The best use is plinking or steel with 300 gr Sierra or Berger at longer ranges with good BC.
The 3 twist offers nothing but trouble and does nothing to enhance killing power, it can't the slight rotational energy increase is mathematical so miniscule it makes no difference in the outcome. Just advertising hype. Faxon will not make 7 or 8 twist that is needed, because of licensing agreement...I asked.
The cartridge case has too much capacity for subs and too little for supers.
I just use it for plinking...accuracy was with the 300 gr SMK & 300 gr Berger only...making a fun but expensive plinker.
The "16 twist" Faxon 450 bushmaster has much more to offer with limited range it's only downside. It will get 3000 ft/ lbs with supers, and in subs the 395 gr and 502 gr offer more sub energy for hunting, I run cheap bulk 185 gr pistol bullets to 502 gr lead...And it works in a light AR 15 platform. I have both...

MSBRPT · Sep 10, 2023

45-90 said:
Cheap 338 lead bullets like Speer 200 gr can be used in the 8.6 blackout 3 twist if kept subsonic, it actually stayed together to 1600 fps..one of the best, for a lead bullet and cheap for plinking... The 285 Eldm must not reach 1400 fps, as it comes apart there. I ran the 225 Hornady copper tipped bullet to 1900 fps, but unimpressive accuracy, and unimpressive velocities for supers....and outside the performance velocities of these bullets which starts at 2500 fps minimum. Might as well use a FMJ as the bullet carries no expansion at 8.6 blackout speeds. Came to the conclusion that if ya want supers, get a 338 Federal.
The best use is plinking or steel with 300 gr Sierra or Berger at longer ranges with good BC.
The 3 twist offers nothing but trouble and does nothing to enhance killing power, it can't the slight rotational energy increase is mathematical so miniscule it makes no difference in the outcome. Just advertising hype. Faxon will not make 7 or 8 twist that is needed, because of licensing agreement...I asked.
The cartridge case has too much capacity for subs and too little for supers.
I just use it for plinking...accuracy was with the 300 gr SMK & 300 gr Berger only...making a fun but expensive plinker.
The "16 twist" Faxon 450 bushmaster has much more to offer with limited range it's only downside. It will get 3000 ft/ lbs with supers, and in subs the 395 gr and 502 gr offer more sub energy for hunting, I run cheap bulk 185 gr pistol bullets to 502 gr lead...And it works in a light AR 15 platform. I have both...

No thanks

Rtlm2007 · Oct 3, 2023

45-90 said:
If Maker says do not use in 8.6 Blackout... Do Not use in 8.6 Blackout...they are bullets for other 338 calibers that do not have a 3 twist!!!..Use only the bullet made for the 8.6 Blackout with subsonic speeds Only!

Makers has super sonic bullets for the 8.6 also

Billygoat1 · Oct 8, 2023

Does anyone here know if the paperwork for the 8.6 Blackout has actually been submitted to SAAMI? If so, when? Any estimates on when and if it will be accepted by the organization? This is a cartridge I am interested in for a host of reasons in a bolt action rifle, but I really don’t want to commit the dollars and time until I am pretty sure it will embraced by more ammunition manufacturers.

MSBRPT · Oct 8, 2023

Billygoat1 said:
Does anyone here know if the paperwork for the 8.6 Blackout has actually been submitted to SAAMI? If so, when? Any estimates on when and if it will be accepted by the organization? This is a cartridge I am interested in for a host of reasons in a bolt action rifle, but I really don’t want to commit the dollars and time until I am pretty sure it will embraced by more ammunition manufacturers.

Q announced on their instagram page that 8.6 had been submitted to SAAMI. I can’t remember exactly when I saw it but I know it has been a couple months since.

45-90 · Oct 8, 2023

Chamber reamers are available, and reloaing dies to match, so it must be standardized...without sending in samples of your 8.6 blockout cartridge, to grind the reamers to.

Billygoat1 · Oct 9, 2023

MSBRPT said:
Q announced on their instagram page that 8.6 had been submitted to SAAMI. I can’t remember exactly when I saw it but I know it has been a couple months since.

OK, thanks. From what I understand in takes anywhere from 6 months to well over a year for SAAMI to accept and publish, so I was just trying to ballpark when it will happen. I don't have facebook or instagram... this may be the first time I wish I had.

45-90 · Oct 9, 2023

MalbecMan said:
So, I'm having a really shit time with Firehole Arms (aka: Black Ammo Matters) hunting subsonics. The first round I chambered in my bolt gun was tight, but not alarmingly so. When I pulled the trigger, the shot was very clearly NOT SUBSONIC and I heard that hair-raising "Wiizzzzzz" sound of what I thought was a ricochet. I thought, A: Weird that it was tight chamber; B: not subsonic; C: my backstop is a 10' x 8' x 4' dirt mound, so why the ricohet. Minding my thoughts, I went to eject the case . . . stuck! After several vain attempts, I just let it cool off and then got out the shell. The firing pin dent was perfect, but the base of the case had clear bolt lift signs.
Fast forward 3 weeks, I run out of the Gorilla Hunt rounds, so I chamber one of the Firehole Arms hunting subs again. This goes in fine, and was actually subsonic, but on trying to eject the round, the bolt won't budge at all. "Well, you're an idiot!" I think as I remember the previous incident, and let it cool off. 30 minutes later, after sitting in a 68F room for half an hour, the bolt still won't budge. It took me 10 minutes and a resin mallet to open up the chamber. The case would not eject from the bolt face, so I had to take the bolt out. After about 30 minutes of trying various methods (edge of counter, vice and mallet, vice-grips, torch), I concluded the case had fire-formed to my bolt face. It is currently at a gunsmith. See pics below.
Has anyone else had issue with this ammo? It appears the first round was supersonic and spun apart, resulting in the "wiz" sound (there was no hole on paper and no dent in the dirt mound). My barrel is a Faxon barrel, so I would think it was the standard chamber. Any ideas what happened? Sorry if this seems like an elementary question, but if this is a round manufacturing issue (other people have similar experiences), Firehole needs to be aware (I emailed them pictures and the above story yesterday).

8.6 blackout Converted brass from any cartridge 308, 270, 30-06, 6.5 Creedmoor all need to be neck turned into the shoulder. 300 Savage is the easiest.
The 30-06 & longer cartridges about .008" must be cut into the shoulder, because the brass is thicker and must be checked & gauged 100% so no spring back of thick brass plus necks are also thinned at the same time.
Then they work great even in an auto loader.
I do the cases with machine tools by the hundreds from all manner of 308 head sized brass, so it's much faster, but hand tools are available, just a lot of work.

DacianMH · Oct 12, 2023

Billygoat1 said:
Does anyone here know if the paperwork for the 8.6 Blackout has actually been submitted to SAAMI? If so, when? Any estimates on when and if it will be accepted by the organization? This is a cartridge I am interested in for a host of reasons in a bolt action rifle, but I really don’t want to commit the dollars and time until I am pretty sure it will embraced by more ammunition manufacturers.

Be sure it’s going to be supported. I know at least from me you’ve got the guarantee that we will always manufacture the ammo, and it will get cheaper as more brass offerings hit the market. (Which there are several big companies releasing)

6.5guys2 · Oct 27, 2023

Ok guys and gals I’m on the edge of selling everything I got in 8.6blackout I have a 12in faxon remage barrel on a tenacity action that I can not get to shoot at all I have 350gr maker bullets and 285gr hornady bullets I want this thing to shoot subs and I have tried all the recommended load data with h110 and 1680 at 2.810 oal and around that and same goes for the 285eldms I have tried all the load data for it and it just won’t shoot nothing it just keeps throwing them all over the place the scope is a arken ep5 I know it’s good as I took it if my dasher to use someone come save me on this 8.6 blk road befor I jump offf thanks

Ps I’m using Q 8.6 brass

DacianMH · Oct 27, 2023

6.5guys2 said:
Ok guys and gals I’m on the edge of selling everything I got in 8.6blackout I have a 12in faxon remage barrel on a tenacity action that I can not get to shoot at all I have 350gr maker bullets and 285gr hornady bullets I want this thing to shoot subs and I have tried all the recommended load data with h110 and 1680 at 2.810 oal and around that and same goes for the 285eldms I have tried all the load data for it and it just won’t shoot nothing it just keeps throwing them all over the place the scope is a arken ep5 I know it’s good as I took it if my dasher to use someone come save me on this 8.6 blk road befor I jump offf thanks

Ps I’m using Q 8.6 brass

It’s your barrel. My 8.6 with 285gr ELD-M is subsonic at 100y.

6.5guys2 · Oct 27, 2023

I don’t understand wat you mean by that

6.5guys2 · Oct 27, 2023

Also I’m getting a lot of these maker bullets out of the dirt that are not even expanding there just like they was when I loaded them but with grove marked on them from the rifling

MSBRPT · Oct 27, 2023

6.5guys2 said:
Ok guys and gals I’m on the edge of selling everything I got in 8.6blackout I have a 12in faxon remage barrel on a tenacity action that I can not get to shoot at all I have 350gr maker bullets and 285gr hornady bullets I want this thing to shoot subs and I have tried all the recommended load data with h110 and 1680 at 2.810 oal and around that and same goes for the 285eldms I have tried all the load data for it and it just won’t shoot nothing it just keeps throwing them all over the place the scope is a arken ep5 I know it’s good as I took it if my dasher to use someone come save me on this 8.6 blk road befor I jump offf thanks

Ps I’m using Q 8.6 brass

I assume you are getting subsonic velocities but it’s not grouping?

6.5guys2 · Oct 27, 2023

Yes I’m getting subsonic velocity’s even with single digit sd and es but it will not group at all I’m talking 5in best

MSBRPT · Oct 27, 2023

6.5guys2 said:
Yes I’m getting subsonic velocity’s even with single digit sd and es but it will not group at all I’m talking 5in best

Scope, chassis and everything else are torqued? What kind of set up are you shooting from, sled or bipods? If you’re getting single digit SD & ES, I’m inclined to think it’s not the load and something else.

6.5guys2 · Oct 27, 2023

Everything is torqued to spec and I am shooting off a bipod with concrete bench and I have shot many groups in the 2s from a bipod even some in the 1s I’m thanking it’s the barrel from wat I am hearing

MSBRPT · Oct 30, 2023

Has anyone received a custom 8.6 Blackout barrel from Mos-Tek? I saw back earlier in the thread some guys were interested in using a slower twist barrel. I was wondering what the results were on those. I’ve also had better success using aftermarket barrels over the OEM and Q barrels.

45-90 · Oct 30, 2023

I am having a 6.5 twist made, the reamer is already here. Most 3 twist barrels from Faxon have been total junk. I aggressively lapped mine, that helped smoothness but it's basically still junk, with torn rifling especially at the start. Achieved the best accuracy and single digit with this load in the 3 twist ... no other combinations came close...for those still trying to make the 3 twist work. It's just a bad idea,
limiting the cartridge.

MSBRPT · Oct 30, 2023

45-90 said:
I am having a 6.5 twist made, the reamer is already here. Most 3 twist barrels from Faxon have been total junk. I aggressively lapped mine, that helped smoothness but it's basically still junk, with torn rifling especially at the start. Achieved the best accuracy and single digit with this load in the 3 twist ... no other combinations came close...for those still trying to make the 3 twist work. It's just a bad idea,
limiting the cartridge.

What kind of accuracy were you getting with that load? Do you have a method for testing the subsonic expanding projectiles? Interested in how the slower twist is going to compare. I’m going to wait to order a Mos-Tek 8.6 barrel if it works out well with subsonic expanding projectiles.

45-90 · Oct 30, 2023

MSBRPT said:
What kind of accuracy were you getting with that load? Do you have a method for testing the subsonic expanding projectiles? Interested in how the slower twist is going to compare. I’m going to wait to order a Mos-Tek 8.6 barrel if it works out well with subsonic expanding projectiles.

This is at 75 yds with a 27X scope, so about a 2" 100 yd 10 shot group is the very best I achieved out of all the bullets tried ...the 300 Sierra MK was about the same but with AA 1680, but higher S/D at 75 yds. So IMR 4198 300 gr Berger was the winner. I do not have an expansion test medium, other than simple water jugs...but I doubt any of these expand, as is. The 225 gr tipped GMX copper bullets tried had double the group size at 50 yds and 5 shots... velocity a bit too high into 1150 fps ave the high velocity was also disappointing with about 1900 fps. According to Hornady the minimum muzzle velocity is 2500 fps for reliable expansion...so they won't work even at maximum effort from the 8.6 in a 16" barrel...according to the manufacturer.
"The bullet" would be the Hornady FTX Marlin express 200 gr 338 at maximum effort (super sonic) in the 8.6 blackout it has a minimum expansion velocity of 1800 fps...But Not in a 3 twist! The 3 twist limits the killing power as it confines bullets to low nonexpanding velocities...subs are fun, but I want to be able to shoot the supers too...where the real performance is at for hunting.

dnchrist · Nov 5, 2023

6.5guys2 said:
Everything is torqued to spec and I am shooting off a bipod with concrete bench and I have shot many groups in the 2s from a bipod even some in the 1s I’m thanking it’s the barrel from wat I am hearing

Hornady # 332704 - 185 gr. CX Polymer Tipped Boat Tail (GMX Replacement)
Powder: TAC 32.5 gr TESTED OK 16 inch barrel. Good Groups.
Powder: CFE 223 33.0 gr TESTED OK

fortify503 · Dec 7, 2023

Airwolf... said:
Would people here be so kind as to share their Maker 350gr REX load data? I found that with my 8" barrel, the following works from a muzzle velocity perspective:

15.5gr of Hodgdon Lil Gun + CCI 200 LRP + 2.810 COAL = 1057 fps
17.3gr of Hodgdon H110 + CCI 200 LRP + 2.810 COAL = 1042 fps

I have not grouped these rounds yet, so I do not know how accurate these loads are. The problem I have run into, though, is that they are having trouble chambering rounds from Magpul PMAGs in my Aero M5 upper/lower. It happens when I release the bolt to chamber the first round in the magazine and the bolt will ride over the top of the brass and cause a jam (picture below). I spoke to my gunsmith about the issue and he advised that the rounds are riding the shoulder guides. He said I could file down the shoulder guides in the magazines to prevent this, but I was curious first if anybody else has run into this issue and had any luck getting around this with a different COAL or perhaps a different magazine.

View attachment 8074496

I didn't see anyone reply to this.

I built an AR10 using a complete Aero M5 upper and had to file the feed ramps on the barrel also. Mine didn't hang up like yours is, but I also used an Aero for my 8.6BLK build I have yet to complete... I will be inspecting it very closely

Airwolf... · Dec 7, 2023

fortify503 said:
I didn't see anyone reply to this.

I built an AR10 using a complete Aero M5 upper and had to file the feed ramps on the barrel also. Mine didn't hang up like yours is, but I also used an Aero for my 8.6BLK build I have yet to complete... I will be inspecting it very closely

I ended up getting the feed ramps on my upper polished. I haven't had any problems chambering rounds in a while with mine. Usually if I do, it is a brass issue. Thankfully there is factory Vairog brass available now so I don't have to use converted Hornady brass anymore.

Feel free to join the 8.6 Blackout Discord...Lots of good people and info here: https://discord.gg/buMR4YKV

Having trouble using the site?

8.6 Blk reloading info

Private

Attachments

Sergeant of the Hide

Attachments

Private

Sergeant of the Hide

Major Hide Member

Private

Major Hide Member

Private

Ammo prep guy

Private

Private

Major Hide Member

Major Hide Member

Attachments

Major Hide Member

Attachments

Major Hide Member

Attachments

Major Hide Member

Attachments

Private

Major Hide Member

Ammo prep guy

Major Hide Member

Ammo prep guy

Private

Ammo prep guy

Private

Ammo prep guy

Major Hide Member

Major Hide Member

Private

Fed3xdad

Private

Private

Major Hide Member

Private

Major Hide Member

Attachments

Sergeant of the Hide

Supporter

Sergeant of the Hide

Supporter

Supporter

Private

Supporter

Private

Supporter

Private

Major Hide Member

Attachments

Private

Major Hide Member

Attachments

Private

Private

Private

Similar threads