I got sub MOA with a similar load. I’m using a mix of Gorilla and early Q brass, BR2’s, 14.9 grains of Lil Gun. 1.951 CBTO. I was using lancer mags out of a bolt gun. Only loaded a few up to test them. MV was 1016, 1009 and 1004. Temp was around 40 degrees.
8.6 Blk reloading info
- Thread starter unclemoak
- Start date
The Gorilla factory loads are absolutely horrible for factory ammo - extreme spreads > 150 fps over 5 rounds same box for the supers.
this was in a 12" with can. Was getting ready for a deer hunt and thought the labradar was out of whack it was terrible. Accuracy wasnt great. I reloaded subs and i was was getting way better performance and groups out of the subs. Defintely a round to reload given the crappy quality of Gorilla
Not necessarily directly related to reloading, but Q posted on their Instagram that SAAMI certification is anticipated in January 2024. Hopefully that opens the doors for wider adoption.
I bought some of their magazines but I had trouble feeding from them because the front lip of the magazine was catching on the mouth of the cases. I could fix it with a dremel, but PMAGs work fine so I have just been using those.
Something I’ve found that has been looking to be helpful for lowering SD and ES in subsonic is weighing primers. I’m using Lil’ Gun and N110, testing different charge weights for 350 grain makers. I am getting SDs in the single digits. Examples are: 2/3 were the same MV and one outlier at +7 fps. Another charge had a SD of 1.5 and ES of 3. A load with varying primer weight (each primer varied in weight by .1 grain) had a SD of 16 and ES of 31. Groups are looking a lot better too.
Interesting. I had decent results with them. Just at MOA at 100 yards averaged 1047 fps and std dev of 13.5fps out of 16” Mos-Tek barrel. Not perfect but good until I load my own. It would have been closer but had one slow shot at 1008 out of 20 shots. The rest ranged from 1039-1065.
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Hey boys,
I finally got to hunt with my 8.6 build this weekend. I’ve tried several powders and bullets, and currently I’m running hornady 285gn eldm’s with 14.5gn of 1680. MV with my 16” bolt gun is right at 1090fps. Average groups are consistently 1-1.5 moa with the occasional sub moa 5 shot group.
Below is a nice sized sow I took with one shot at close to the 100yd mark. I was surprised and impressed that the bullet blew through both shoulders and the amount of terminal ballistics was more than satisfactory.
Question- when I was loading for a 300 blackout bolt gun years back, I found that lil’ gun was the quietest powder I had found at that time and produced the same velocities.
I’ve looked through the pages, but would like to know if any of you fellas would mind sharing your Hodgdon Lil’ Gun loadings with the 285 eldm or 230 eldx, or of course any other projectiles.
Thanks, and Merry Christmas!
I finally got to hunt with my 8.6 build this weekend. I’ve tried several powders and bullets, and currently I’m running hornady 285gn eldm’s with 14.5gn of 1680. MV with my 16” bolt gun is right at 1090fps. Average groups are consistently 1-1.5 moa with the occasional sub moa 5 shot group.
Below is a nice sized sow I took with one shot at close to the 100yd mark. I was surprised and impressed that the bullet blew through both shoulders and the amount of terminal ballistics was more than satisfactory.
Question- when I was loading for a 300 blackout bolt gun years back, I found that lil’ gun was the quietest powder I had found at that time and produced the same velocities.
I’ve looked through the pages, but would like to know if any of you fellas would mind sharing your Hodgdon Lil’ Gun loadings with the 285 eldm or 230 eldx, or of course any other projectiles.
Thanks, and Merry Christmas!
Curious about your OAL on the 285 ELD-M
Out of everyone on this forum I believe you are running at the longest OAL i've read which is still under the spec of 2.825
Can you comment on how well this length and the ELD-M has worked out for you?
I will be using an AR10 based rifle which usually prompts me to stay on the shorter side of OAL but I just loaded my first rounds up at 2.803 which felt long reading everyone else's specs...
load in development is:
285gr ELD-M
Hornady 6.5CM resized brass 6.5>308>trim>8.6
14.5gr Accurate 1680
OAL 2.803
Rfile:
12" pistol length gas Faxon barrel
adjustable gas block
carbine buffer system with H2/H3(?)
joining soon is Dead Air Primal
I would strongly recommend switching your powder over to Vihtavuori N110 or Hodgdon Lil Gun. AA1680 is super dirty, gassy, and loud. I did some testing with TBAC on my 8" AR-10 and we found that Lil Gun was 2.5db quieter than AA1680. We didn't measure N110 but it is definitely quieter than Lil Gun. N110 is also much, much cleaner. There is just no reason to run AA1680 unless you are having issues cycling.
Thanks for the suggestion.
I would rather run Accurate 1680 in this wildcat rifle than use it for any of my other rifle platforms specifically for those same reasons.
I've got 5lbs. that has been collecting dust since it was the only thing I could source during the primer and powder pandemic...
Thought i'd use it as my excuse to dive into the 8.6 development
Not sure what is going on with loads lately. Above is 14.9 grains of N110, BR2 and 350 grain Makers at a CBTO of 1.943”. I made sure everything was just about equal and did a load development with the combo. Test several shots with a batch and this is the result. I thought I was expecting too much out of subsonic ammunition but can get 1 MOA out of 300 BO subsonic. Has anyone tried the MOS-TEK 8.6 barrels in 1:6.5?
Some other notes, I did 9 grains of Unique with the 350 makers. GRT gave me a velocity of about 1000 fps. Actual velocity was 400 fps. I sat the 350s all the way down to 1.900” using 15 grains of N110 and started getting a heavy bolt and ejector swipes.
Becareful with the 8.6 blackout, experimental loads can be very dangerous in this small case, big pressure spikes happens with each .030" decrease in COAL. And be sure the bullet exits the barrel before shooting the next round. ..650 fps for jacketed bullets should be your minimum velocity to make sure the bullet exits, for each shot. Haven't heard from the barrel maker, who's past due on the lead time of my 6.5 twist 8.6 Blackout barrel... have the finish reamer and the 700 action is trued...but no barrel blank...yet. So, I haven't been messing with the cartridge because I felt I was wasting ammo on the 3 twist...
I have the same setup and same problem. Its the barrel. I am getting a new 1:3 twist barrel shortly (from faxon) but I am also having a 1:6.5 twist spun up for me. I hope to have answers in the coming months.
Welcome, Son... just try to keep it on the edge, of control.
Has anyone tried CFE-Blk with the Barnes 210gr TSX? I am thinking of starting at 33.5gr and going up to 34.5 as a test. This will be in a bolt gun. I have ran it in GRT and it is showing a 60k pressure at the max load. I was hoping someone had quickloads or another program could double check me.
Case: Gorilla
Bullet: Barnes 210gr TSX #30410
Primer: Remington 9 1/2
Case capacity in water: 45.5gr
O.A.L.: 2.650
Barrel: 16" Faxon
Thanks,
Greg
Case: Gorilla
Bullet: Barnes 210gr TSX #30410
Primer: Remington 9 1/2
Case capacity in water: 45.5gr
O.A.L.: 2.650
Barrel: 16" Faxon
Thanks,
Greg
Depends on bullet length...which is absent
But if its 1.473" for the bullet.
A bolt gun ...maybe 33.7 gr aprox 58265 psi 34.0 gr over 60,000 psi. CFE-Blk.
Pressure jumps fast in a small case.
But this is not exact, but a guesstimate...
Always have to work up...pressure signs will tell ya.
Not... for use in weak bolt semi auto, at all.
Thank you and I forgot that and was hoping since I gave the part number it would be ok, had to find the calipers in the reloading room
These are 1.356 oal.Greg
Yes, COAL and bullet length changes case capacity...drastically in a small case, which changes pressure.Thank you and I forgot that and was hoping since I gave the part number it would be ok, had to find the calipers in the reloading room
Greg
At 2.650" COAL, 45.5 gr h20 case cap, bullet 1.356 long copper 338 dia 210 gr
This shows ,"A reference" a max 35.3 gr CFE BLK 58434 PSI ...
Any changes in components or seating depth makes a large jump in pressure...so be careful the max may be lower in your bolt gun.
Work up slowly checking for pressure signs, and case longevity.
For comparison 31.9 gr of AA1680 31.9 gr gets similar velocity and pressure...for comparison, with the same bullet and parameters set down.
For informational purposes.
Case: Gorilla
Bullet: Barnes 210gr TSX #30410
Bullet length: 1.356
Primer: Remington 9 1/2
Powder: CFEBlk
Charge: 33.8gr
FPS: 2110
Case capacity in water: 45.5gr
O.A.L.: 2.650
Barrel: 16" Faxon
Action: Remington 700
Weather: Rain, 57f
Over all the tested load shot well, primers were still nice and round, standard deviation was 12fps for the 5 rounds tested.
The tested load at 50 yards grouped into 3/4" at first testing. Recoil was normal, nothing sharp, bolt lift was normal as well.
No shiny spots on brass heads and no lines around webbing. I am going to increase the load to 34gr and test again.
This is just for informational purposes, do not try this at home, safe in my build, may not be in yours.
Only targets and backstop were hurt in this testing.
Greg
Bullet: Barnes 210gr TSX #30410
Bullet length: 1.356
Primer: Remington 9 1/2
Powder: CFEBlk
Charge: 33.8gr
FPS: 2110
Case capacity in water: 45.5gr
O.A.L.: 2.650
Barrel: 16" Faxon
Action: Remington 700
Weather: Rain, 57f
Over all the tested load shot well, primers were still nice and round, standard deviation was 12fps for the 5 rounds tested.
The tested load at 50 yards grouped into 3/4" at first testing. Recoil was normal, nothing sharp, bolt lift was normal as well.
No shiny spots on brass heads and no lines around webbing. I am going to increase the load to 34gr and test again.
This is just for informational purposes, do not try this at home, safe in my build, may not be in yours.
Only targets and backstop were hurt in this testing.
Greg
Changed the load to 15 grains of N110 and CBTO to 1.940”. Groups shrank to 1-1.5 MOA. Average MV was 977fps. Has anyone tried N120? I’ve read that it does better for subsonics in 300 BO. I was curious if maybe it would be the same in 8.6.
Just getting started on load development. Prelims look good. Very excited about this gun.
Seekins SP10 Mos-Tek SS 10.5” 1:6.5 twist
SiCo 36M
Garmin Xero C1
1/28/24
46F 88% 29.70in
300 gr SMK HPBT (factory seconds)
A1680
FGMM 210M
BTO 2.1900
Q brass x 1 firing
BTO 2.1880
COAL 2.790
COL 1.6765
16.5 966, 985, 972, 979, 996
SD 10.3 ES 29.7 0.8” @ 50y
17.0 995, 1013, 1017, 999, 1010
1007, 1010, 997, 1009, 1023
SD 8.5 ES 27.8 1” @ 50y
17.3 1033, 1049
Seekins SP10 Mos-Tek SS 10.5” 1:6.5 twist
SiCo 36M
Garmin Xero C1
1/28/24
46F 88% 29.70in
300 gr SMK HPBT (factory seconds)
A1680
FGMM 210M
BTO 2.1900
Q brass x 1 firing
BTO 2.1880
COAL 2.790
COL 1.6765
16.5 966, 985, 972, 979, 996
SD 10.3 ES 29.7 0.8” @ 50y
17.0 995, 1013, 1017, 999, 1010
1007, 1010, 997, 1009, 1023
SD 8.5 ES 27.8 1” @ 50y
17.3 1033, 1049
It clears. I’ll post pics. I have to direct thread obviously. There is not room to attach any 2” M-Lok picatinny pieces. The Seekins rapid attach ones with the spring loaded buttons on the end do fit but barely touch the suppressor so I wouldn’t recommend it unless you just had to. I’m ordering a one screw piece as there is a little room behind it with my 10.5” barrel I think it will fit.
using a .45ACP can for subsonic 8.6BLK (reloaded with 14.4gr of Accurate 1680 behind 285gr ELD-M bullets in a 12" barrel)?
Allowed cartridges for this particular suppressor list 350 Legend which has pressures upward of 55,000psi... I'm assuming a .338 projectile traveling at subsonic would be safe in such a can (assuming you have the correct barrel thread adapters)??
hint: Rugged Obsidian45
Allowed cartridges for this particular suppressor list 350 Legend which has pressures upward of 55,000psi... I'm assuming a .338 projectile traveling at subsonic would be safe in such a can (assuming you have the correct barrel thread adapters)??
hint: Rugged Obsidian45
Historically ELD-M bullets have been the worst for jackets separating, albeit at supersonic speeds. If you’re running a 1:3 they’re probably ok but there’s always a risk of ruining your can.
So far so good keeping things to subsonic. 1024,974,976,1006,971,958,969,989,990 fps for the first ten rounds with my not so trusty caldwell pro chrono.
Not sure how one goes about getting pressure reading without a direct measurement of some sort?... I'll wait to hear from Rugged
That's a NO GO for the Obsidian 45 supporting 8.6BLK according to Rugged. If I had money to waste I might test it for myself
Weird, it's almost like you can't believe everything you see/read on the internet!
I haven't seen any updates either, so assuming it hasn't happened yet.
Waiting for the Rugged Alaskan360 to receive its "get out of jail" card...
pretty fun platform still without it.
Bank account is weeping even shooting handloads tho
I picked up a box of the Barnes 160gr TTSX and was looking at the Q data, the say OAL should be 2.70" if that is the case then only .205 of the bullet would be in the case, that would be barely the first band on the bullet. Has anyone else loaded these yet and if so what was your OAL? I am thinking of 2.575'ish maybe?
I Already played with the AR 10, 8.6 in 3 twist and found it wanting.
The 338 6.5 twist barrel blank arrived, so this will be on the Rem trued 700, chambered and threaded for a brake, this barrel will start at 24" for supers mostly.
See if 2100 fps and 300 grs is possible, QL has a few powders that look promising.
The 8.6 is basically a waste of good bullets and barrels, it's just an experiment for me.
The 338 6.5 twist barrel blank arrived, so this will be on the Rem trued 700, chambered and threaded for a brake, this barrel will start at 24" for supers mostly.
See if 2100 fps and 300 grs is possible, QL has a few powders that look promising.
The 8.6 is basically a waste of good bullets and barrels, it's just an experiment for me.
It is, but there they were and just had to jump into my hands and leave the store with me. So I thought why not since Q had them listed in their data, but then I really looked at the data and the OAL they are using just didn't fit you know.
I am using it in a 10.5” 1:6.5 twist but won’t have data for about a week. I’ll circle back around.
Edit:
Seekins SP10 Mos-Tek 1:6.5 twist 10.5” SS
Garmin Xero C1
2/20/24
48F 42% 30.38”
Maker 350
A1680
Q brass x 2
FGMM 210M
BTO 2.4200
COAL 2.7910
COL 1.6775
16.0 910, 869 fps not stable @ 50
16.5 917, 918, 927 not stable @ 50
17.0 942, 959 stable @ 100 and locks bolt
Barnes 210 GR TSX BT solid copper
A1680
Q brass x 2
FGMM 210M
BTO 2.6100
COAL 2.6670
COL 1.6775
29.5 1762, 1773, 1757 fps
30.0 1837, 1799, 1794
30.5 1920, 1817, 1834 1” @ 100
300 gr SMK HPBT (factory seconds)
BTO 2.1900 (308 comparator used)
17.0 1020, 1023 fps
17.5 1045, 1046, 1048
Q brass x 1
FGMM 210M
BTO 2.1880 (308 comparator used)
COAL 2.790
COL 1.6765
16.5 966, 985, 972, 979, 996 fps
SD 10.3 ES 29.7 0.8” @ 50y
17.0 995, 1013, 1017, 999, 1010
1007, 1010, 997, 1009, 1023
SD 8.5 ES 27.8 1.2” @ 50y
17.3 1033, 1049
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Al ready have the 3 twist in AR 10, looking for something better...
So I trued Rem 700 action and chambered a new 6.5 twist barrel blank for 8.6 Blsckout.
Going for high velocity experiment, making 277 hybrid cases into 8.6 Blackout on a bolt gun. Annealed, formed, annealed, F L die, neck turn...gonna finish one hundered, hybrid 227 fury cases to 8.6 Blk and load the with 300 gr SMK, the goal is 2200 fps QL says its possible. A 1400 yd gun? Just curios as to what can be achieved. I have better calibers for LR, but this will easily reach past 1000 yds, with excellent wind drift numbers...Run the ballistics on big 338 bullets. Plus it can easily sub sonic if needed. Spent a lot of time, effort, & dollars trying to see if this caliber is useful.
So I trued Rem 700 action and chambered a new 6.5 twist barrel blank for 8.6 Blsckout.
Going for high velocity experiment, making 277 hybrid cases into 8.6 Blackout on a bolt gun. Annealed, formed, annealed, F L die, neck turn...gonna finish one hundered, hybrid 227 fury cases to 8.6 Blk and load the with 300 gr SMK, the goal is 2200 fps QL says its possible. A 1400 yd gun? Just curios as to what can be achieved. I have better calibers for LR, but this will easily reach past 1000 yds, with excellent wind drift numbers...Run the ballistics on big 338 bullets. Plus it can easily sub sonic if needed. Spent a lot of time, effort, & dollars trying to see if this caliber is useful.
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Been watching since the beginning. I think it's a neat niche gun. With that said I want one haha.
I really like that lower
@unclemoak Gorgeous rifle set up.
I really like that lower
@unclemoak Gorgeous rifle set up.I am just shooting for velocity right now. I'll shoot for groups as soon as I can get out to the range. I need to change my scope. 8x and my eyes don't seem to like 100 yards.
Sheet attached, I had to zip it to attach it. It's up to you but I have saved one for each caliber I test. When I try a new powder or bullet I right-click copy the original tab to a new worksheet and rename the tab. It keeps all of the data for the rifle in one place. Blue text is for data entry. entry but no cells are protected (be careful in other words). Powder type is just under the word Number in the top left cell. Charge wt is to the right of that. V1 - V5 are velocity. The Delta row was suggested by an F Class guy on another forum. He said it was helpful for identifying a node. Looking at the .338 Edge load test I ran (the spreadsheet has this info in it), I think he's right. There is a dip in Delta at load 3. If I did another test I would shoot from Load 2 to Load 3 and increment .1 (even though it's a tiny percent change).
Thanks for all the sharing @Mike6158
I hope you don't think I'm stepping on your toes, but awhile ago I had taken the time to update and add from as many burn rate charts as I could find, including some discontinued powders to come up with the following Google Sheet. I believe access is set to anyone with the link, so enjoy and please let me know if any mistakes are found!
Powder Burn Rates
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