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I have some loaded as well as supers, for my 6.5 twist.Has anyone tried subsonic in the slower 1:6 twist barrels? If so, did it yield better accuracy than the 1:3?
So after letting this sit for a while, I decided to pick it back up again. Thanks to all that lent their expertise. I did end up getting down into the transition below the neck a bit. That made the loads fit the gauge even better. It also made them fit in my rifle and fire correctly. I made a collet to fit my lathe to make the process faster. Thank you 45-90 for your post on that. I worked up a couple different loads for testing. After figuring out my Cauldwell chrono was junk, I picked up a Garmin Zero C1 Pro. This thing is fantastic and easy to use. Here is what I came up with and the results.Thank you, sir. I wish I would have done some research before I bought the brass. All of the rounds I have loaded pass the gauge test and slide all the way in and out. The Hornaday turning too has a cutter with the same angle as the shoulder taper. I am going to try bumping the necks a bit, and then checking the durability of them before loading. If that doesn't help, I am going to send the barrel back and have them look at it.
Get the 45-90...life is too short. You have the stuff....so fulfill the dream.
Its shoots 500 gr cast and 350 gr Berrys heavy plated rated at 1900 fps. subsonic or super your choice.
I use 45-70 and 45-90 brass. Some 45-70 for subs.
I use the lathe & collets to drill deep hollow points in Berrys bullets .200 deep hp 10.3 gr of Red Dot for 864 fps, quiet small game load, little recoil. Or 10.5 red dot 250" deep hp for 1113 fps. 10.3 red dot on a 350 gr no hollow point 952 fps.
Or have cast 500 gr subs for heavy game or Hornady Sub X 410 gr super or sub.
Recoil gets stout when 500 grs are 1800 fps or over, but always fun to shoot a few.
Before I got sick a few weeks ago I fired 100 rds of 45-90, without stopping, the barrel was so hot I had to hold low on the walnut stock to escape the heat from burning my fingers...and let the barrel cool 15 minutes before putting in the gun case and head home...my other rifle was the 8.6 blackout 6.5 twist, out for testing...
Yep, gotta have an Win 1886 short rifle in 45-90 ...and Real SAA in 45 Colt caliber, made by Colt. A fun way to hit the mountain trails.Not to derail the thread, but an '86 in 45-90 is a bucket list rifle for me, and the short list at that.
It’d be nice if #2 turns out to be consistent. I looked over my older notes and found that my consistent loads all used SRP brass. I’m going to try going back to SRP until I find LRP brass loads that work.I shot my N133 subsonic test today (03/13/24 since I forgot to date the spreadsheet). It was windy but the wind was from the south and I shot to the north. The pistol berms and trees around the range do a good job of blocking / lifting the wind to some degree. Aero Precision M5 upper and lower, Superlative Arms gas block, Geissele trigger, 12" Faxon round thing with rips and tears on the inside, and that's being nice. I shot the test with my Dead Air Primal installed.
Group size is below ES/SD on the Excel sheet. Group 1 and 2 had acceptable 100 yard groups sizes. 2 was real nice. I could have done better with a slingshot for the other 7 groups. I really think it's the barrel. I guess we'll see when I get the new barrel. Have I mention the barrel enough?
The Garmin didn't record 3 shots, which is annoying. It also negates two of the groups (4 and 7). Since they are lower velocity than where I want the round to be I'll get over it (I really won't). I'm still learning how to set it up so that's probably on me. I had some good ES values that, other than the first string, didn't produce good groups.
I didn't get to 1,100 - 1,110fps with this test. That was the goal. I expected to pass into low supersonic range and didn't get there. There were no pressure signs. I'll explore higher, probably 18.4 to 18.9. There were some decent ES's. There's big, fat node right in the middle but no groups to back it up. Again, I think a huge component of that is the barrel. We'll see.
This looks like a good alternative powder for subs. With any luck I'll get to test the bullet at subsonic velocities on a pig Friday or Saturday. If it doesn't do well I'll move on to something else for subs.
View attachment 8371959
I've got 10 loaded. I hope to do a hog test on Friday or Saturday. I think I'll load 10 more and see what a 10 shot group, at a 100, looks like. I just looked, every case I have is large rifle pockets. I've reloaded a lot of the early Gorilla case 1 or 2 times, no more than that, and the primer pockets get sloppy. .It’d be nice if #2 turns out to be consistent. I looked over my older notes and found that my consistent loads all used SRP brass. I’m going to try going back to SRP until I find LRP brass loads that work.
Gotta keep trying, the SR primered cases may help...along with powders that give good fill, by volume.
Much of the accuracy problems are in the Faxon barrels, and a quality barrel replacement is the answer for better accuracy with a slower twist.
But, they should be accurate enough for short range.
Shot some 300 Bergers at 2 liter jugs...they were very unimpressive as to killing power.
Even at 1943 fps they just punched a .33" hole on the 2 liter...like shooting it with a Bow using a point target arrow...the liquid slowly drained out.
200 gr lead at 2480 fps exploded the 2 liter in the 6.5 twist.
I'm going for the highest velocities instead of subs this go round...using mostly lead bullets without worry of them exploding in the muzzle brake, with the 6.5 twist.
Will shoot a few subs also.
The 300 gr Bergers are for long range target, only, IMO.
They just punch a small caliber hole even way above sub speeds...look like they would be slow kills, even on squirrels.
Recovering from being sick...will be back out testing the high velocity loads in a few days.
I used a "SAMMI spec" wooden dowel that fits into the neck of the case. I slipped it into the case, marked the end of the neck, removed the dowel, loaded a charge, lightly inserted the dowel, measured to the mark, did some cyphering.It’d be nice if #2 turns out to be consistent.
I haven't but I've got the time and brass to load some today. I really need to see if the 280gr LRX will perform with subs before I get too excited about loading it. If I can find a good ES that groups with CFE Black that might be useful. I'm not optimistic about finding "groups" with the barrels I have. I have the one 0.682" group that I need retest just to see if it repeats. I hope to find another N133 node at higher velocity (but still subsonic).@Mike6158 Have you tested CFE BLK yet? I saw it was next
Looking at the burn rate chart:Using Reloaded 15 with subsonic 300gr pills.
Has anyone tried RL 15 with 300gr subs out of an 8inch barrel? Using gordons reloading tool it looks promising. My goal is to try and get a higher fill volume in the case primarily so overthrows are more noticeable. With Accurate 1680 an overthrow is very easy (dont ask me how I know).
Basically looking for any powder that can get me north of 65% case fill that will work well with subsonic 8.6blk reloads.
I would appreciate any feedback.
Regards
I saw on Alpha’s site that they offered 8.6 brass only in LRP. I wonder if the SRP on Mile High is a typo.Noticed some new Alpha Munitions 8.6 Blackout cases, called OCD, as they optimized for high pressure and have SR primers. Available at Mile High Shooters for $125 per hundred.
They should give you a one extra protection with your normal loads....but allow for a bit extra performance with out going overboard.
The 308 OCD cases were taken to 100,000 psi in a Bat action in a test, video on Ultimate Reloader, Do not do this at home , 308 Win completing with the 300 WM. Titled show.
For those interested....check it out...I may try the Alpha 8.6 OCD brass myself, later.
Could be a typo, on the SR priner pocket.Bet it is a typo, the pic on Mile High shows LRP.
Just finished building my 8.6. 12" Faxon 1-3 twist barrel. Porq chop suppressor . Gorilla case, Remington large rifle primer, 14.7 gr Accurate 1680, bullets are 300 grain seconds that came from Midway. Pretty sure they are Sierra Match King. 934 ft sec average. Bolt cycles and locks on last open on last round. Going to go up a few grains and see if I can get between 1025 - 1050 ft sec.
An F Class shooter gave me the following advice:OAL?
BTW - I've been warned about increasing by "grain" amounts and ushered to only increase loads by fractions of grains due to how quick pressures spike in this particular case.
if you're looking to achieve ~10% velocity increase I was advised into .5gr max. increment increases (not sure if that applies to subs and supers or just one of those)
I looked at the Alpha brass in 8.6 blackout and considered getting some because its good brass, I use it in 6 DasherAlpha brass is first class stuff. It's shipped in a 100 count case. A nice one. The necks aren't all banged up and the brass is very consistent. Much better than Q or some of the other sources. I'm not going to load any of it until the new barrel comes in.
I went with the 6 GT SRP brass. Couldn’t get enough data to come to any conclusion. I loaded 9 cartridges using CCI BR4’s and had 5 failure to ignites. It was definitely easier sizing up without having to neck turn.I looked at the Alpha brass in 8.6 blackout and considered getting some because its good brass, I use it in 6 Dasher
It will handle high pressures, probably not needed in most subs, but good consistency might help with vertical on the longer range targets, with lower extreme velocity variations.
I'm doing good with the 6.5 twist with 300 gr subs, with hybrid csses, but wonder if Alpha brass could make that even better.
So I'm gonna order some. It's been selling fast as some were $118 per hundred. Look for free shipping, promo codes.
After using the 6.5 twist and getting almost 338 Federal velocities with cheap lead bullets and over 3000 ft/ lbs of energy, plus excellent accuracy from the sub 300 gr loads, I'll probably never use my 3 twist barrel again, as it's so limiting and does not provide the accuracy of the 6.5 twist barrel.
Got a bunch of High velocity bullets coming for hunting Barns 160 gr to 250 gr to see what velocities are possible with the 8.6 blackout.
Plan to turn the old 3 twist 8.6 blackout AR 10 into an AR 10 338 RCM 18". Ordered the chamber reamer, gauges, barrel, have the modified bolt and upper, with dies, and brass to modify on the way. It always takes a few months to acquire all the stuff.
Were the BR 4s hard to seat?I went with the 6 GT SRP brass. Couldn’t get enough data to come to any conclusion. I loaded 9 cartridges using CCI BR4’s and had 5 failure to ignites. It was definitely easier sizing up without having to neck turn.
I did notice they were harder to seat than what I’m used to. I’ll have to give the Remington’s a try.Were the BR 4s hard to seat?
The primers may not be seating properly.
If so run Remington 7 1/2 primers in your Alpha brass, as I do in the 6 Dasher...they will seat normally as the cup has a bevel to start and not square like the CCI and most others.
The Alpha brass has tight primer pockets, even with my 110 gr 3085 fps Dasher loads they will take awhile to loosen up.... stay with the Rem 7 1/2, they fire every time and produce small groups and are for high pressures, with their thicker cups, but no problem seating them, and they all go bang.
I went through the same problem when I started, so I did an investigation, and found the problem.I did notice they were harder to seat than what I’m used to. I’ll have to give the Remington’s a try.
My OAL is 2.755OAL?
BTW - I've been warned about increasing by "grain" amounts and ushered to only increase loads by fractions of grains due to how quick pressures spike in this particular case.
if you're looking to achieve ~10% velocity increase I was advised into .5gr max. increment increases (not sure if that applies to subs and supers or just one of those)