.308 Winchester

New video of the brand new TBAC Magnus-S HUB can on a 16" .308 Win with my subsonic handloads.

Be sure to go give it a like and share it on your socials, with YouTube harassing 2A content, every little bit of help is greatly appreciated.

 
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Small base die question here.
-Shouldn't the inner diameter of a small base die be smaller than a standard full length sizing die?

Background: trying to use .308 small base die to resize the body of my 6 br brass. Long story there.
I went and bought a RCBS .308 Small Base set. 6 br brass falls right in. Weird.....
I pull out my existing Hornady .308 die (not the Match) set and my 6 br brass requires a press to even have a chance of going in.
 
Small base die question here.
-Shouldn't the inner diameter of a small base die be smaller than a standard full length sizing die?

Background: trying to use .308 small base die to resize the body of my 6 br brass. Long story there.
I went and bought a RCBS .308 Small Base set. 6 br brass falls right in. Weird.....
I pull out my existing Hornady .308 die (not the Match) set and my 6 br brass requires a press to even have a chance of going in.
Always buy the correct die for the cartridge, being sized...is usually the best bet for getting a usable fit for your rifle, for the average reloader.
Small base dies are only slightly smaller, and mostly not needed even for autoloaders... but not always.
308 and 6 br have close body tapers but the tapers are not exactly the same.
Tolerences...are present, and brass spring back varies from case to case brand to brand, and inconsistant work hardening of the brass, then the dies are not all exactly the same, industry tolerences. Same with rifle chambers not all exactly the same.
Using 7 different 308 dies has shown differences in sizing...even from the same manufacturer. RCBS, 2 Wilson, Redding, 2 Lee, and Hornady 308 dies are all slightly different, in the outcome of a sized case.
 
Guys, do any of you by chance have a picture of a 155 scenar next to a 175 SMK? I bought a 308 with an 11.27 twist. When I asked the previous owner why he didn't go with a 10 twist instead, he said he had it done specifically for the 155s.

I try to chamber factory ammo with 175s and it becomes somewhat difficult to close the bolt. I then realized I might be kissing the lands or barely jamming.

I'm trying to see if bullet base to Ogive on a 155 is much shorter than on a 175. Or, it might be longer but the ogive is at a much lower point on the bullet. I will re-check again tmrw with a sharpie painted factory 175 and see if the lands are showing up. I just had my brain going right now and figured I'd ask. Maybe the rifle is short throated and I may have to ream it out.
 
In Palma and target rifle circles, they normally cut the chambers with short freebores for Berger, Sierra. From as little as 0 freebore to a massive 0.050". Or they cut them long for Lapua Scenar with a 0.100" to 0.120" freebore.

What makes the 155 Scenar different is that is has pretty much the same external dimensions as the 175gr Scenar; just contains 20gr less lead.

I suspect that your chamber has the short freebore. If the chamber was cut for the 155gr Scenar it would have had a long freebore.
 
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Guys, do any of you by chance have a picture of a 155 scenar next to a 175 SMK? I bought a 308 with an 11.27 twist. When I asked the previous owner why he didn't go with a 10 twist instead, he said he had it done specifically for the 155s.

I try to chamber factory ammo with 175s and it becomes somewhat difficult to close the bolt. I then realized I might be kissing the lands or barely jamming.

I'm trying to see if bullet base to Ogive on a 155 is much shorter than on a 175. Or, it might be longer but the ogive is at a much lower point on the bullet. I will re-check again tmrw with a sharpie painted factory 175 and see if the lands are showing up. I just had my brain going right now and figured I'd ask. Maybe the rifle is short throated and I may have to ream it out.

Are there any marks on the bullet? You can always just check the OAL to lands with the 175 and then measure the factory ammo.
 
In Palma and target rifle circles, they normally cut the chambers with short freebores for Berger, Sierra. From as little as 0 freebore to a massive 0.050". Or they cut them long for Lapua Scenar with a 0.100" to 0.120" freebore.

What makes the 155 Scenar different is that is has pretty much the same external dimensions as the 175gr Scenar; just contains 20gr less lead.

I suspect that your chamber has the short freebore. If the chamber was cut for the 155gr Scenar it would have had a long freebore.
Yes the 155. Scenar is surprisingly long. I compared one to a 178gr ELD-M and there's nothing in it. Probably explains why they shoot very well in my Tikka factory chamber (11tw).
 
Guys, do any of you by chance have a picture of a 155 scenar next to a 175 SMK? I bought a 308 with an 11.27 twist. When I asked the previous owner why he didn't go with a 10 twist instead, he said he had it done specifically for the 155s.

I try to chamber factory ammo with 175s and it becomes somewhat difficult to close the bolt. I then realized I might be kissing the lands or barely jamming.

I'm trying to see if bullet base to Ogive on a 155 is much shorter than on a 175. Or, it might be longer but the ogive is at a much lower point on the bullet. I will re-check again tmrw with a sharpie painted factory 175 and see if the lands are showing up. I just had my brain going right now and figured I'd ask. Maybe the rifle is short throated and I may have to ream it out.
 

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So it looks like while the 155 is still longer overall, its bullet base to Ogive is still shorter by roughly 10.5 thousands. Thank you for posting this.

I'm starting to think this barell was chambered/throated to possibly run 155s at mag length. This would explain why most 175s are kissing the lands.
 
Are there any marks on the bullet? You can always just check the OAL to lands with the 175 and then measure the factory ammo.

I think the marks that are imprinting are just that. Land marks. I'll get some pics in a bit.

How do you suppose I measure OAL to land with the 175? I'm barely going to start reloading soon so it'll help me to know.

I've seen the method where gut out the bolt. They then insert a case with a bullet in it with very minimal neck tension to allow it to be pushed inside the case as it start going into the lands. The bolt should free fall down with no resistance. Is this what you mean?
 
Just buy a 308 throating reamer and handle.
The aluminum fits the diameter of the bolt and sized to the long turning handle, so everything is centered.
Use dark heavy cutting oil, with all the cancer causing agents...cause it works

Cut your free bore any where you want it.
Done....it's easy to do.

I am a fan of 155 Scenars, shot many thousands all the way out to 1400yds.

My barrels were all 12 twists, during this time, and 13 twist was popular with some Palma shooters.

Nothing magical about an 11.25 or 11.27 twist, for the 155 gr.
I have an 11.25 twist AR 10 that is not fond that of 155s, and I tried most.

But the 12 twist AR 15, 30 RAR that loves them, but the barrel was taken from an old 308 bolt gun with 8,000 rds, and trimmed and cut down for the AR 15 project.
Funny, the old shot out 12 twist barrel, liked the 155 Scenar as a 308 Win bolt gun, but still likes them as a AR 15 in 30 RAR as a semi auto.
 

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You can load 175smk at 2.775” if the longer COAL really are hitting the lands. I’d be really surprised if factory length ammo is hitting the rifling tho

It sucks if factory ammo is indeed hitting lands. However, previous owner had mentioned he had this rifle built specifically for 155s. I would have imagined factory ammo would still be fine but perhaps maybe not?

I am bedding the scope base at the moment. Later tonight I'll remove the base to drill the screw holes out. I'll use sharpie to paint a bullet and then chamber it. I had already done this before but cannot seem to remember where I placed it. I'll update with what I see on the sharpie'd bullet.
 
I think the marks that are imprinting are just that. Land marks. I'll get some pics in a bit.

How do you suppose I measure OAL to land with the 175? I'm barely going to start reloading soon so it'll help me to know.

I've seen the method where gut out the bolt. They then insert a case with a bullet in it with very minimal neck tension to allow it to be pushed inside the case as it start going into the lands. The bolt should free fall down with no resistance. Is this what you mean?

Get one of these and a .308 modified case and you can measure exact OAL to lands and adjust off it. No need messing with bolt etc. If the factory .308 is just a little too long you can usually seat it back some safely so you can still shoot it but I wouldn't think it would be an issue with the measurements above.

 
It sucks if factory ammo is indeed hitting lands. However, previous owner had mentioned he had this rifle built specifically for 155s. I would have imagined factory ammo would still be fine but perhaps maybe not?

I am bedding the scope base at the moment. Later tonight I'll remove the base to drill the screw holes out. I'll use sharpie to paint a bullet and then chamber it. I had already done this before but cannot seem to remember where I placed it. I'll update with what I see on the sharpie'd bullet.
There is risk moving away from saami spec chamber.
Could speak to person that did the chambering, another possible allocation for chamber customization would be for specific brass -- for neck diameter.
 
There is risk moving away from saami spec chamber.
Could speak to person that did the chambering, another possible allocation for chamber customization would be for specific brass -- for neck diameter.

Just got done doing the sharpie method. If this isn't a clear indication of kissing lands, then idk what is.

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There's 5 total marks of paint scratched off. Pretty sure this rifle has 5 lands lol. Although there is a very very nice and blended brake that won't let me see the muzzle end to verify that. I have no idea how to remove it without scratching it. There are no wrench flats.
 
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Judging by how close to the case mouth those marks are, the freebore is mighty small.

I have shot 155gr Scenars in a Palma 95 chamber. I still have a few thousand left. I do have to load them deeper than the Bergers to get a 0.020" jump, but my cartridges were still longer than SAAMI max. Theoretically SAAMI spec ammo should still fit without jam.
 
Judging by how close to the case mouth those marks are, the freebore is mighty small.

I have shot 155gr Scenars in a Palma 95 chamber. I still have a few thousand left. I do have to load them deeper than the Bergers to get a 0.020" jump, but my cartridges were still longer than SAAMI max. Theoretically SAAMI spec ammo should still fit without jam.
I mean the cartridges will be longer than normal 175 ammo possibly because the 155 bullet is way too long for its weight. But where the ogive is on that 155 bullet is still a lot closer to the bullet base than with the 175 no? That's why you load them deeper, so you're not in the lands. But then you introduce a 175 into that chamber, and the 175 has the ogive much further up and closer to the tip, so you run into jamming issues. But the 175 is still overall shorter so I can see why the 155, even loaded deeper, could be at saami max or just a touch above.
 
Ok I will bite, what was the load under the 169? And a brief run down on the rifle? We like pictures!
Load data:
169 Sierra Matchking
39.9 grs H4895
CCI BR2
Virgin Lapua cases
CBO 2.136
OAL 2.790

Rifle:
LRB M25 Rear Lug Receiver
Bartlein Heavy 1-11 Stainless 22"
McMillan stock
All the usual M1A Match Tricks
Built by Dave Ferrante of Heart Mountain Precision

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With H 4895 being non existent , and the IMR powders 4895 & 4064 getting expensive, I'm starting to look at the VVN powders, epically N 140 , N150 & N540 . They all seam to produce close to the same velocity , about the only difference I see is that N540 costs more. I shoot both AR and bolt 308's.
 
With H 4895 being non existent , and the IMR powders 4895 & 4064 getting expensive, I'm starting to look at the VVN powders, epically N 140 , N150 & N540 . They all seam to produce close to the same velocity , about the only difference I see is that N540 costs more. I shoot both AR and bolt 308's.
VV 140 is your best fit, it’s Uber close to 4064. Any of the 5 series are double based propellants while they have tons of energy but don’t do so well in the heat.
 
Lapua Brass 51.00mm
Hornady ELD-X 178grains
Vitavhouri N540 43.40grains
L6 = 74.00mm
RWS LR Primer

Tikka CTR 308 20"
MDT Field Stock
Burris Six XE3-18x56 FFP SCR2

Shot 5 rounds from hunting stand at a target about 100m

First shot 2 clicks right, Cole Bore, next 4 shots dead center
 

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Whipped up 500 rounds today. 168 SMK, 41 grains of Varget, old Winchester WLR primers. Old once fired Winchester cases from the 90's. COAL 2.80. I've been using this loading for well over 20 years, just lacking the Varget since the start of covid. Today was charging and bullet seating on my 45 year old Rock Chucker.

1000006788.jpg
 
Whipped up 500 rounds today. 168 SMK, 41 grains of Varget, old Winchester WLR primers. Old once fired Winchester cases from the 90's. COAL 2.80. I've been using this loading for well over 20 years, just lacking the Varget since the start of covid. Today was charging and bullet seating on my 45 year old Rock Chucker.

View attachment 8468080
Good luck with those primers. ;)
 
For today's 308 Win loaded a bunch of these hybrid 208s and some 215 Bergers in hybrid cases ...51 and 50 gr of powder.
For a 9 twist 308 22" and a 30" 8 twist 308.
 

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Where might one procure these hybrid cases?
I bought 1500 cases early on...yrs ago then a few from time to time..a big investment.
They were spotty, as to availability...
But the good news is American Reloading had just received a bunch and put them on sale for like 52 cents ea with the primer, from pulled military cases.
I purchased 200 to replace the ones used in the 8.6 Blackout ...
The bad news, they had stuck ball powder in the cases,... from compressed loads?
The easy way to get it out is with a air compressor, and a skinny harbor freight air nozzle, and blast the hell out of it with compressed air...watch the eyes.
I decap, with a Lee decapping die...and re use the primers., later.
Mandrel up to 30 cal and size in a full length Wilson bushing die, with .334" dia bushing.

For those with a lathe,
I neck turn into the shoulder with a ground form tool with a radius sharper than print in the neck shoulder junction on the lathe to eliminate the donut, completely.

But it's a step you may not do to enjoy the benefits of the hybrid case, but I'm always concerned with pressure spikes from inconsistencies in that area.
The pic is how I precision neck turn, not the average way...but it gets precise results.
I run minimum chambers in 308 boltguns with the same reamer...but it's not necessary to be that precise with most chambers, have a lager plus side to work with.
These cases have beat out Lapua LR and Palma SR for accuracy with 230 SMK at 2550 fps. In the Bartlein 9 twist 22" barrel, with a Rem Varmint contour, so one can pack it around... also run the same load in the LA 308 Win 8 twist 30".
 

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