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.308 Winchester
- Thread starter Two Shoes
- Start date
Judging by how close to the case mouth those marks are, the freebore is mighty small.
I have shot 155gr Scenars in a Palma 95 chamber. I still have a few thousand left. I do have to load them deeper than the Bergers to get a 0.020" jump, but my cartridges were still longer than SAAMI max. Theoretically SAAMI spec ammo should still fit without jam.
I have shot 155gr Scenars in a Palma 95 chamber. I still have a few thousand left. I do have to load them deeper than the Bergers to get a 0.020" jump, but my cartridges were still longer than SAAMI max. Theoretically SAAMI spec ammo should still fit without jam.
I mean the cartridges will be longer than normal 175 ammo possibly because the 155 bullet is way too long for its weight. But where the ogive is on that 155 bullet is still a lot closer to the bullet base than with the 175 no? That's why you load them deeper, so you're not in the lands. But then you introduce a 175 into that chamber, and the 175 has the ogive much further up and closer to the tip, so you run into jamming issues. But the 175 is still overall shorter so I can see why the 155, even loaded deeper, could be at saami max or just a touch above.
Finally able to run the M1A at 600 yards this morning with the 169 Sierra Machking and H4895. Decent 10 shot group, 6.5"
Ok I will bite, what was the load under the 169? And a brief run down on the rifle? We like pictures!
Load data:
169 Sierra Matchking
39.9 grs H4895
CCI BR2
Virgin Lapua cases
CBO 2.136
OAL 2.790
Rifle:
LRB M25 Rear Lug Receiver
Bartlein Heavy 1-11 Stainless 22"
McMillan stock
All the usual M1A Match Tricks
Built by Dave Ferrante of Heart Mountain Precision
Try 43.0 H-4895 coal 2.90 and report back, more than enough steam for the 1000yd line.
LRB-M25
Mac 1st gen stock
WMMW 1/11 5r
M-25 gas cylinder Sadlak grooved TiN piston
Basicly with works done….
LRB-M25
Mac 1st gen stock
WMMW 1/11 5r
M-25 gas cylinder Sadlak grooved TiN piston
Basicly with works done….
The 169 has a shorter berring surface and you should seat them long, so it’s going too fly faster allowing you too take better advantage of the bullets bc. Running these at mag length is lost potential.
With H 4895 being non existent , and the IMR powders 4895 & 4064 getting expensive, I'm starting to look at the VVN powders, epically N 140 , N150 & N540 . They all seam to produce close to the same velocity , about the only difference I see is that N540 costs more. I shoot both AR and bolt 308's.
VV 140 is your best fit, it’s Uber close to 4064. Any of the 5 series are double based propellants while they have tons of energy but don’t do so well in the heat.
Lapua Brass 51.00mm
Hornady ELD-X 178grains
Vitavhouri N540 43.40grains
L6 = 74.00mm
RWS LR Primer
Tikka CTR 308 20"
MDT Field Stock
Burris Six XE3-18x56 FFP SCR2
Shot 5 rounds from hunting stand at a target about 100m
First shot 2 clicks right, Cole Bore, next 4 shots dead center
Hornady ELD-X 178grains
Vitavhouri N540 43.40grains
L6 = 74.00mm
RWS LR Primer
Tikka CTR 308 20"
MDT Field Stock
Burris Six XE3-18x56 FFP SCR2
Shot 5 rounds from hunting stand at a target about 100m
First shot 2 clicks right, Cole Bore, next 4 shots dead center
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Whipped up 500 rounds today. 168 SMK, 41 grains of Varget, old Winchester WLR primers. Old once fired Winchester cases from the 90's. COAL 2.80. I've been using this loading for well over 20 years, just lacking the Varget since the start of covid. Today was charging and bullet seating on my 45 year old Rock Chucker.
They go bang, never an issue. Been using them steadily in the last few years. Maybe I have 20 to 30k of them left.Good luck with those primers.
From what I hear, those older ones are more reliable than the newer.They go bang, never an issue. Been using them steadily in the last few years. Maybe I have 20 to 30k of them left.
Those old primers work just fine...I just ran 1100 of them 50 yrs old.From what I hear, those older ones are more reliable than the newer.
$8.90 per thousand...
Less than a penny each standard or magnum.
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Ah yes, the old Payless stores where I used to buy a lot of shooting and fishing supplies.
50 years ago I could buy a new car for under $3,000 and a hamburger for ~59¢ .
I bought 1500 cases early on...yrs ago then a few from time to time..a big investment.
They were spotty, as to availability...
But the good news is American Reloading had just received a bunch and put them on sale for like 52 cents ea with the primer, from pulled military cases.
I purchased 200 to replace the ones used in the 8.6 Blackout ...
The bad news, they had stuck ball powder in the cases,... from compressed loads?
The easy way to get it out is with a air compressor, and a skinny harbor freight air nozzle, and blast the hell out of it with compressed air...watch the eyes.
I decap, with a Lee decapping die...and re use the primers., later.
Mandrel up to 30 cal and size in a full length Wilson bushing die, with .334" dia bushing.
For those with a lathe,
I neck turn into the shoulder with a ground form tool with a radius sharper than print in the neck shoulder junction on the lathe to eliminate the donut, completely.
But it's a step you may not do to enjoy the benefits of the hybrid case, but I'm always concerned with pressure spikes from inconsistencies in that area.
The pic is how I precision neck turn, not the average way...but it gets precise results.
I run minimum chambers in 308 boltguns with the same reamer...but it's not necessary to be that precise with most chambers, have a lager plus side to work with.
These cases have beat out Lapua LR and Palma SR for accuracy with 230 SMK at 2550 fps. In the Bartlein 9 twist 22" barrel, with a Rem Varmint contour, so one can pack it around... also run the same load in the LA 308 Win 8 twist 30".
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It's a 308 ....I ran the LR Varget barrels to 8,000 rds., before chambering another barrel blank, with max loads, never concerned about barrel heat, until it interfered with seeing the target.Sounds like a real barrel burner.
It'll probably go half that before needing a new barrel...maybe more.
Haven't chronograph these but should be about 2650 to 2700 fps in the 22" 308 for 208 Bergers.
What is a “hybrid case?” Do you have a “hybrid chamber?”
51 and 50gr of powder for 210gr bullets in .308Win? For 210gr bullets in .308Win the highest powder charge I’m reading in the Berger manual is 43.7gr of Win 760. What powder are you using?
I mean, you do you, but that seems seriously hot for .308Win; the pressures are probably exceeding 90-100k psi. Unless, of course, this “hybrid case/chamber” is really 30.06.
It's factory ammo I bought online. Don't know if they load to saami spec. If I remember correctly, that was an American marksman round using their lake city brass with a 175.
I suppose I could try fgmm 168 since that's what I also have on hand or norma match 175s.
are you single feeding it or putting it in a magazine? If it came from the factory it should be standard length, so I'm wondering why the scrape marks.
Need to get with the times...8 & 9 twists are old news, with long heavy bullets ...need to apply them to the 308 win case, along with hybrid cases for a little extra boost.
Running this 9 twist 22" barrel at 2634 fps with hybrid cases, and the 208 Berger, about 65,000 psi according QL with the slight extra capacity of hybrid cases, which are rated to run at 80,000 psi.
Or 2740 fps with 200 gr SMK with Lapua cases or 2690 fps with Berger 200.2 gr.
Or 215 gr Berger 2600 fps. 230 SMK at 2550 fps is an excellent load in this 9 twist 22" barrel.
Most will be single load for LR in this rifle...but never fear the long action is available for the 308 if ya use a chassis and 3.4" cartridges, which can be feed from the mag. So 250 Atips can be fired from the 308 8 twist. But 230 Atips at 2620 or 225 ELDM at 2675 are a better fit for the 308 maximum effort loads without hybrid cases.
Unless ya want the 200 gr SMK 715 bc bullet at 2900 fps in a LA 8 twist 30" barrel. So the 308 case can be utilized to cover most any endevor, with added performance, depending on choices.
Or you can still use the old 168 gr with or without the hybrid cases, try some of the new powders, your choice, take it or leave it, it's just there, for those who care to know...or educational purposes.
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Single feeding it.
The ammo is long for the throat/chamber. The previous owner said he had this built so he could run exclusively 155s through it. At the time of purchase, I didn't know that meant factory saami spec ammo would not fit lol. But I guess now I can reload 155s for it or take a reamer to it.
Considering I was running a LA 300 WSM and struggled to get 2675 with a 22" barrel and the 225 ELD, are you getting this kind of velocity with a 30" plus barrel?
Yes the 225 gr at 2672 average on this string was LA 30" Bartlein 5 R 308, with Lapua cases.
It shoots the 200 SMK 715 BC at 2856 with Lapua cases and over 2900 with hybrid cases. 230 Atip at 2620 fps in Lapua cases.
Just ran some 208 Bergers 2634 fps in the 22" 9 twist and 215 Berger 2600 fps just 2 days ago.
I have a few hundred rounds of steel cartridge bullets and want to know if anyone reloads steel.
Does anyone have a CBO measurement of a 175 Sierra at a 2.800 OAL? I have a chamber set up for 168 Sierra's at 2.200 at that OAL jumping .010 so I'm wondering how the 175 compares before I buy some.
You should look at getting some 168 ELDs instead of 175s. The 168 ELD has a better BC.
Factory ammo with 2.800” oal the base to ogive is 2.135 so you could load them a little longer but they don’t mind a jump.
That 2.135 is for a factory 168 ELD load? I never had much luck with the 168 ELD in an M1A.
Everyone needs to be careful with exchanging Ogive measurements (of any kind).
Why ?
Different manufacturers of comparators bore theirs differently. Example(s);
Hornady;
.214" (.223)
.233" (.243/6mm)
.296" (.308)
Short Action Customs;
.221" (.223)
.241" (.243/6mm)
.306" (.308)
And, I'd be willing to bet that no two comparator manufacturers bore theirs alike/identically.
A 0.007 to 0.010" bore diameter variation between just the example(s) above creates a significant variation in Ogive measurements.
Because of Short Action Customs consistency and being much closer to actual bullet diameter, I permanently retired (threw away) the Hornadys.
Why ?
Different manufacturers of comparators bore theirs differently. Example(s);
Hornady;
.214" (.223)
.233" (.243/6mm)
.296" (.308)
Short Action Customs;
.221" (.223)
.241" (.243/6mm)
.306" (.308)
And, I'd be willing to bet that no two comparator manufacturers bore theirs alike/identically.
A 0.007 to 0.010" bore diameter variation between just the example(s) above creates a significant variation in Ogive measurements.
Because of Short Action Customs consistency and being much closer to actual bullet diameter, I permanently retired (threw away) the Hornadys.
Yes that is the factory ammo load info.
If you don’t want to use them then your choice but figured I would try and give you an option with a better BC if shooting them long.
Glad you brought that up, going to order some from SAC now that I'm thinking about it.
I'm pretty restricted on the OAL because of the magazine. 2.830 is about max and I have no interest in single feeding.
You don’t have to single load them. I shoot those in my bolt gun to 1250 yards in matches and they are jumping about .060” if I remember correctly. The ELD don’t mind a jump. They don’t need to be close to the lands. If I load them I load them .020” off.
Also, I am not saying that one manufacturer is "more accurate" than another. Ogive measurements are relative (to the tool you are using).
Were the Hornadys "inaccurate" ? No, not at all. But, both manufacturers inserts yielded different Ogive measurement results. I used the Hornadys for probably 20 years with good results.
I got rid of the Hornadys because the SAC product is (a lot) better made and I didn't want to have two sets around and potentially confuse measurements.
Sorry, I misread you post. Thought you you were talking about seating them out when you said shoot them long.
I've actually wanted to upgrade for a while since I have SAC's headspace comparators, but after seeing the disparity between the diameter measurements, I'm just going to switch everything over.
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