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No they don't. IlA workers have already explained how many do not even survive the first 2 years becuase most can't afford to only work 30 hours a month while damn near living at the union hall waiting for work. And if they can't get 700 hours a year they lose their benefits and can be kicked out of the union. Starting pay is $20/hr. $20x30 is 1200 a month, before taxes. Try living on that. Alot of them quit for more steady work.
What you are talking about is if they get dispatched to a ship coming in. And that is probally correct but it also NEVER happens. All kinds of financial penalties are put into these types of CBAs to prevent bad actors from going against the intent of the CBA. They are designed to discourage that from happening.
You guys should really stop talking about shit you do not begin to understand. Just perpetuating more bullshit.
Season 2 of the wire actually covered the longshoreman lifestyle pretty well. It was filmed at the port of Baltimore with actual stevadoors ( ILA).
She/he wannabe is! Too much stupidity runs in that family reasons to block this fucktard.You are really fucking dumb. It's not just imports.
There are exports ( raw material, machinery, food being the big 3)
Loading provisions on US Merchant Marine ships
Loading Provisions on US Navy Ships
Loading Provisions on allied ships
Sending supplies to allied nations
Sending supplies to us bases overseas
And about 100+ other situations where these ports would be used to execute actions against a nation state who owns and controls them. You don't think a Chinese automated system could be sabotaged or remotely destroyed should they need to shut us down?
There is no magic us navy base where it's gov personal doing the rigging, Loading, crane ops for ships. It's all longshoreman...either union on the economy or union contracted gov for sensitive sites.
We have allowed the enemy to control our means of waging war. All the ships tanks jets and soldiers don't mean jack shit if you can't manage the log train...and longshoremen and our ports are a critical link in that chain.
Seriously you can't be this fucking stupid.
NO shit, hence why they are taking the actions they are. You make it as painful and costly to the point preservation of American Jobs are the least bad choice. Loosing 5B a day in trade is costly. If the US Gov was doing their job, they wouldn't have allowed these companies control of our ports in the first place. If the Gov was doing their job, they would be taxing the fuck out of these companies to keep the Money circulating in the US Economy. If the US gov was doing their job they would force these companies to maintain their ships and crew to at least basic US minimum standards so they don't know down fucking bridges. A few of these ships could do the same amount of damage as dropping ballistic missiles on our bridges to block shipping channels.Doesn’t matter who owns the shipping companies, the moment it becomes more cost effective and profitable to automate then they will. If it was US companies they would simply get subsidies from the government to pay for it.
This seems appropriate about now.NO shit, hence why they are taking the actions they are. You make it as painful and costly to the point preservation of American Jobs are the least bad choice. Loosing 5B a day in trade is costly. If the US Gov was doing their job, they wouldn't have allowed these companies control of our ports in the first place. If the Gov was doing their job, they would be taxing the fuck out of these companies to keep the Money circulating in the US Economy. If the US gov was doing their job they would force these companies to maintain their ships and crew to at least basic US minimum standards so they don't know down fucking bridges. A few of these ships could do the same amount of damage as dropping ballistic missiles on our bridges to block shipping channels.
If some eurotrash faggot billionaire only makes 20 billion instead of 22 billion in profit this year, is that really so sad?
If it was US companies it would at least be more palatable.
Most of you sound like defeatist cucks. Roll over and die. Give up. Talk shit about the people trying to fight. Its pathetic.
I can't wait until automation and AI puts you out of a job. When your sucking cock under the freeway so you kid can have a happy meal, at least I can say I told you so.
What is the employment rate? What was the percentage of people living in poverty? How many people starved to death?I'm sure one of my ancestors had similar thoughts when tractors were invented, and yet we're still employed even as farm employment dropped from about 14M a century ago (about 15% of the total population) to 3M today (less than 1% of the population).
If automation is so bad for the labor environment, why are we even bothering with containerization and heavy equipment? Load individual boxes into a cargo hold and unload the whole fuckin' thing by hand. Think of all those jobs that we'd create!
World Bank, same people who loan money to nations with terms they can never meet and then enslave them raking in the money. They are one of the most evil entities on the planet and almost anything they say or so is the opposite of good. They are balls deep in most of the NGO bullshit that fuels conflict and corruption around the globe.The Longshoremen are total fucking bullshit, and our ports fucking suck worse than many parts of the third world.
Read ‘em and weep.
NO shit, hence why they are taking the actions they are. You make it as painful and costly to the point preservation of American Jobs are the least bad choice. Loosing 5B a day in trade is costly. If the US Gov was doing their job, they wouldn't have allowed these companies control of our ports in the first place. If the Gov was doing their job, they would be taxing the fuck out of these companies to keep the Money circulating in the US Economy. If the US gov was doing their job they would force these companies to maintain their ships and crew to at least basic US minimum standards so they don't know down fucking bridges. A few of these ships could do the same amount of damage as dropping ballistic missiles on our bridges to block shipping channels.
If some eurotrash faggot billionaire only makes 20 billion instead of 22 billion in profit this year, is that really so sad?
If it was US companies it would at least be more palatable.
Most of you sound like defeatist cucks. Roll over and die. Give up. Talk shit about the people trying to fight. Its pathetic.
I can't wait until automation and AI puts you out of a job. When your sucking cock under the freeway so you kid can have a happy meal, at least I can say I told you so.
I gotta disagreeWhy do you have such a hard on love for the unions and want them to be able to hold hard working American Citizens hostage to their ever increasing demands for some ever increasing huge pay scale "that they deserve" according to you?
It's almost like you want everybody else (who by the way hasn't seen wages go up at all and are struggling to still make ends meet) to have to pay way more money for everything so these union types you worship can get tons of money and keep being inefficient and their thuggish unions having a stranglehold on part of the economy.
Why?
You seem to not realize that it's NOT any "big foreign company" that will be paying this, it's all those hard working average american citizens you seem to despise who are doing all the stuff that makes the country run, silently, quietly without drama. All those types that are hard pressed to make ends meet will have to pay more for everything so the union folks you seem to worship can have a grand rich lifestyle and be powerful thugs?
Why?
What's your actual connection with loving the Unions so much?
Same can be said of these union members.I gotta disagree
If things were produced here there'd be no need for all this. Companies moved production to foreign nations because the labor plus the cost of shipping combined is cheaper than producing here at the living standard that Americans require. To push for these guys to make less, is to make the outsourcing even more profitable.
Don't shit on people who make a higher wage than you simply because they make a higher wage. You look like a whining loser. Nobody keeps you at your own shitty job other than yourself
Has nothing to do with unions. It has to do with good paying American Jobs that support a strong middle class that highly correlates with the individuals right... IE freedom.Why do you have such a hard on love for the unions and want them to be able to hold hard working American Citizens hostage to their ever increasing demands for some ever increasing huge pay scale "that they deserve" according to you?
It's almost like you want everybody else (who by the way hasn't seen wages go up at all and are struggling to still make ends meet) to have to pay way more money for everything so these union types you worship can get tons of money and keep being inefficient and their thuggish unions having a stranglehold on part of the economy.
Why?
You seem to not realize that it's NOT any "big foreign company" that will be paying this, it's all those hard working average american citizens you seem to despise who are doing all the stuff that makes the country run, silently, quietly without drama. All those types that are hard pressed to make ends meet will have to pay more for everything so the union folks you seem to worship can have a grand rich lifestyle and be powerful thugs?
Why?
What's your actual connection with loving the Unions so much?
Exactly. We saw an explosion in manufacturing under TRUMP as regulations were relaxed and foreign competitors who DO NOT PLAY BY THE SAME RULES, were forced to compete. Its totally viable from manufacturing, to mining to energy and logistics. We just have to have the stomach to do it but so many of our leaders are bought and paid for by our adversaries its an uphill battle.When it becomes more profitable for companies to produce here again, they will in a heartbeat
Oldest game in town. Divide and conquer. Get everyone fighting each other so they don't fight the idiots in charge making the bad decisions. It happens with politics every cycle.I know it's going to open a childish shit storm, but so be it.
Union wages are what sets the bar for open shop wages, at least in the building trades. Open shop companies charge customers just enough less to be appealing, but pay their workers significantly less, therefore making a greater profit for themselves.
There are shitbag workers in both sectors. It's just jealous rhetoric to rail against a group of people that you don't really know anything at all about other than caveman tribalism
What are you talking about? Try and make sense.We've all seen the video of Harold Dagget (a millionaire) bragging about how many people will get laid off if the ILA demands aren't meant. He didn't seem very worried about the effect on those families, did he?
He likely doesn't care one bit. His job is to be a shitbag negotiator and make the best deal possible. He's paid to be an assholeWe've all seen the video of Harold Dagget (a millionaire) bragging about how many people will get laid off if the ILA demands aren't meant. He didn't seem very worried about the effect on those families, did he?
Oh they do the same. I live outside DC and know a ton of people who are lobbyists. There are 10 times the number of full time lobbyists as members of congress. Corporations buy votes to kill competition. Regulation really only hurts small business, as its a bigger percentage of their overhead. Big Corps fucking LOVE regulation. Its a huge barrier to entry.To be fair, and somewhat even:
Unions buy corrupt politicians, and they are expensive. Company owners do the same, but they don't have the buying power of a big union.
The system sucks, but it's not exactly the working man's fault. It's more of a "swamp" issue
What is the employment rate? What was the percentage of people living in poverty? How many people starved to death?
Only an autistic fuck would say ALL automation is bad. Only an autistic would compare machinery that took us out of the agricultural age and into the industrial revolution to the Information age to the AI age. Machines are replacing humans, not supplementing them. The whole point is to increase profit, decrease labor costs and increase throughput. What happens when Doctors and Lawyers and Accountants and Engineers are replaced by AI, since they can do it better. Are there going to be 1 for 1 job replacements for the Billions of people who are going to loose their job to automation? What happens then? You are disposable, in fact, you become a liability as someone needs to now cloth, feed and house you. Less people working = Less tax revenue. You think the elites who write the fucking tax codes for their benefit are going to allow them to re-write it so they pay the difference?
You can have modern conveniences and technology without making the human race obsolete. Unless you plan to kill off 95% of the world population, there is going to be a reckoning. Maybe its a virus, maybe its war, maybe people just starve to death since the means of production will be controlled by an elite few.
Is a company making less profit/margin but gainfully employing people who are productive members of society better or worse than a small wealthy oligarchy and the rest of the masses being poor peasants. These are all things society has to figure out before its too late. Automating entire industries out of existence, when there is so much fucking money being made they can EASILY pay everyone and still make money hand over fist sounds foolish. Is some euro trash faggot going to take on the burden of supporting 45k workers and their families? Are they going to pay the US gov the lost tax revenue? Are they going to pay for all the welfare and social programs those people will consume?
You better pray the longshoreman prevail because it may be your industry they come for next. Lets hope you have the balls and foresight to do something about it before its too late.
I have always said the difference in union and non union is. when the customer bids job they charge same rate. But non union pays there employees less so it’s more money in pocket. In ky when they did away with prevailing wage even the non union companies got pissed cause they used those wages to bid against union on jobs.I know it's going to open a childish shit storm, but so be it.
Union wages are what sets the bar for open shop wages, at least in the building trades. Open shop companies charge customers just enough less to be appealing, but pay their workers significantly less, therefore making a greater profit for themselves.
There are shitbag workers in both sectors. It's just jealous rhetoric to rail against a group of people that you don't really know anything at all about other than caveman tribalism
ETA: "This guy makes too much money because it's more than I think it should be"
And that union boss makes north of $700k a year.Robots don’t pay union dues…
They dont pay taxes either. And your kids are poorer as a result. Congrats CuckAnd that union boss makes north of $700k a year.
I'm totally with you on everything accept feeling bad because they work difficult hours. They get paid very well and they want 10% more per year guaranteed and will get a lot of what they want. There's even a good point there about automation and the potential for foreign control of it, maintenance ect...Exactly. No ships come in no work. Ship comes in at 4pm..sorry you aren't seeing little Timmy's soccer game and won't be home until breakfast. The only people really making bank have seniority and have been there for 20+ years. You eat alot of shit for alot of years before it starts to get cush. I think their demands are reasonable all things considered and the more high paying blue collar jobs...the better for this nation. We are bleeding wealth to overseas adversaries. Slowing that down is a GOOD thing. Automation of the ports is a threat to national security. We don't build that shit here so we can't control it.
......Nobody keeps you at your own shitty job other than yourself
Not the same thing.Not trying to be argumentative, but the exact same logic could be applied to these longshoremen. If they don't like their pay, work conditions, etc., all they have to do is hunt another job.
It's the exact same thing. It is called free will, the most important aspect of a free society. No one has welded anyone to a job or a career, military service aside. The unions have simply brought a little bit of collectivism into America, it's that simple. Lots of people move jobs to get raises that wouldn't otherwise come about. Why union jobs are sacrosanct is beyond me. Unless they are actually afraid to find other jobs because they are already being paid more than the market will bear for the jobs they perform and they know it. Or they don't have the skills to find other jobs. But those are realities everyone has to face and get over or get left behind.Not the same thing.
If your job hits a ceiling with no chance of progression, that falls behind the inflation rate causing you to lose buying power, and all you do is complain that others make too much. That's what I'm referring to.
I don't know the conditions that longshoremen have or are fighting for, but this is how negotiations have always gone. Both sides say crazy shit and settle in the middle somewhere that both sides will accept. These aren't dead end jobs as above
But they're not being paid more than the market will bear. They are getting raises. No reason for them to leaveIt's the exact same thing. It is called free will, the most important aspect of a free society. No one has welded anyone to a job or a career, military service aside. The unions have simply brought a little bit of collectivism into America, it's that simple. Lots of people move jobs to get raises that wouldn't otherwise come about. Why union jobs are sacrosanct is beyond me. Unless they are actually afraid to find other jobs because they are already being paid more than the market will bear for the jobs they perform and they know it. Or they don't have the skills to find other jobs. But those are realities everyone has to face and get over or get left behind.
They dont pay taxes either. And your kids are poorer as a result. Congrats Cuck
Remove the unions and see what the market will bear. It will go one way or the other and the truth will be revealed.But they're not being paid more than the market will bear. They are getting raises. No reason for them to leave
yea,expect a full on continuation if trump gets in_LOL. 1 of many things they have planned to wreck the country and blame on him.I wonder if the political folks looked at the polling data and the fact the Kamala and Joe were fully in support of the strike and decided it was better not to risk a full Republican takeover of the Federal government. I fully expect that if this strike had run until the election the economic pain would have certainly put Trump into the White House and maybe delivered the House and Senate as well.
That’s a heavy post most won’t get. They should.yea,expect a full on continuation if trump gets in_LOL. 1 of many things they have planned to wreck the country and blame on him.
Not speaking to you specifically, but everyone in general... If you hit a pay ceiling and are unhappy with it, then it's time for developing new skills and start a new career. I speak from experience because that's exactly what I did. I used to be a heavy equipment mechanic and hit the ceiling. I went back to college and earned a mechanical engineering degree. It was well worth the blood, sweat and tears to get it. It's not the responsibility of the employer to pay you more just because you're unhappy you hit the ceiling. It's not "your' job. It's the employers job. You are replaceable by someone who would be happy with your pay ceiling.Not the same thing.
If your job hits a ceiling with no chance of progression, that falls behind the inflation rate causing you to lose buying power, and all you do is complain that others make too much. That's what I'm referring to.
I don't know the conditions that longshoremen have or are fighting for, but this is how negotiations have always gone. Both sides say crazy shit and settle in the middle somewhere that both sides will accept. These aren't dead end jobs as above
They used extortion to get that raise.But they're not being paid more than the market will bear. They are getting raises. No reason for them to leave
He has been banned multiple times. Has been here much longer under other names. Some crab and football related.I'm curious. I've not looked thru your other posts, though I've seen you have been a member for three years. Have you always been such a union troll?
union troll? what the fuck are you yammering about. not a union fan,even a little. never had much to say about them.I'm curious. I've not looked thru your other posts, though I've seen you have been a member for three years. Have you always been such a union troll?
Which member are you referring to?I'm curious. I've not looked thru your other posts, though I've seen you have been a member for three years. Have you always been such a union troll?
My sincere apologies. I thought I was quoting a DeathbeforeDismemberment post. Sorry, too much posting on a Friday evening.union troll? what the fuck are you yammering about. not a union fan,even a little. never had much to say about them.
That is who I thought you were talking about as well.My sincere apologies. I thought I was quoting a DeathbeforeDismemberment post. Sorry, too much posting on a Friday evening.
Makes sense Checks out now. Appreciate the infoHe has been banned multiple times. Has been here much longer under other names. Some crab and football related.
“Union negotiation” by any other name…They used extortion to get that raise.
Interesting. Last place I worked the HMEM (Heavy Maintenance / Equipment mechanics) made more than any engineer at the agency, including SES. 200K+ with overtime/Per diem/differential. Hard fucking work but one of the most in demand jobs out there.Not speaking to you specifically, but everyone in general... If you hit a pay ceiling and are unhappy with it, then it's time for developing new skills and start a new career. I speak from experience because that's exactly what I did. I used to be a heavy equipment mechanic and hit the ceiling. I went back to college and earned a mechanical engineering degree. It was well worth the blood, sweat and tears to get it. It's not the responsibility of the employer to pay you more just because you're unhappy you hit the ceiling. It's not "your' job. It's the employers job. You are replaceable by someone who would be happy with your pay ceiling.