New 6mm Advanced Rifle Cartridge
- Thread starter Gtscotty
- Start date
Better tuan a clam shell, but.
It’s Aluminum, the lug engagement is not confidence inspiring.
Replaced it with the Midwest for sml frame. Midwest from the start for LF.
The barrel extension type spuds without the upper receiver support will work fine under normal circumstances. It’s when the upper receiver is galled or seized on or overtightened barrel nut , the upper receiver will twist and probably destroy the upper… due to the upper receiver, twisting due to the circumstances above
That will be my next purchase
Too bad I don’t have a mill. I would make my large and small frame wheeler, steel action rods into complete barrel spuds.
Why not just buy the Geissele small and large from reaction rods that many of us have been using for god knows how many years? They are built to last forever. I have many 100s of builds on each of mine...
These can be had for even cheaper multiple times per year during sales. Black Friday being the next one most likely..
"The rod is cut from a solid bar of 4140 Chrome Moly steel, properly quenched/tempered and ground to an exact diameter that is smooth and straight so the rod will enter an upper receiver without wobble."
These can be had for even cheaper multiple times per year during sales. Black Friday being the next one most likely..
"The rod is cut from a solid bar of 4140 Chrome Moly steel, properly quenched/tempered and ground to an exact diameter that is smooth and straight so the rod will enter an upper receiver without wobble."
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Not possible. Bar holds the extension via the lug cutouts. The barrel nut grabs the upper and front of the extension. Nothing touches/torques the barrel.
ETA: Beyond that, a properly torqued extension has next to zero chance of tightening enough to affect headspace unless you are hell bent on destruction.
Now lets get this thread back on track about 6 ARC. We are way off track here. Start a new thread if you need to know how to build an AR15 upper, hold a barrel, torque, tools, etc...
Ive never had this issue, ever. I have 2 XL650's....Something is off, you need to tear it down and diagnose it piece by piece until you find the cause.
These are as good as it gets for building AR uppers. I have hundreds of builds on mine
GEISSELE AUTOMATICS LLC AR-15/M16 REACTION ROD | Brownells
Check out GEISSELE AUTOMATICS LLC AR-15/M16 REACTION ROD | Brownells available Online at Brownells Today and many more Gun Barrel Tools products are available in our Tools & Cleaning Department.www.brownells.com
I actually prefer the G reaction rod over the Midwest Industries, I have both, for AR-15 and AR-10. I like the ability to reclock the receiver being worked on to various angles for better access to whatever the task is. It's just more convenient.
I've done many upper receivers, perhaps not hundreds, new builds, re-builds, and alterations.
no problems. maybe if I get an upper where the gorilla factory torqued it to 200 lbs ft, maybe then i'll bust out the Midwest reaction rod, but the G has served me well, never any of the issues that the paranoiacs crow about.
Agreed, being able to rotate and lock the upper at different angles during assembly and disassembly is so clutch, especially when securing handguards, lining up gas locks, etc.
yeah, I’ll have to figure it out…
Right now I just found out after sending in a brand new turret press in for warranty repair….
The crayon munchers , that do the repairs , damaged the finish……jackasses must’ve thrown it in a regular vice which caused deep bite marks from the jagged jaws right into the frame of the large metal reloading press!!!
Looked closely and they also did it to another piece of the vice in a separate area.
so the dip shit couldn’t fuck it up once they fucked it up twice.
how dumb shit can you get?
At this point, it’s a blemished press.
should have blemish price
Like playing cards with my sister‘s kids
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Back on track
what seems to be the best magazines for the six ARC?
I picked some up that were the metal magazines and it looks like they compressed a normal size spring. It would fit in a standard 30 round magazine, into a 5 shot 6arc mag.
I cut the spring down and I have a very soft easy feeding magazine , not only does not mark the brass up. It feels about the same spring in a AW 308 magazine
Not enough pressure to trigger the last round bolt hold back though …not going to combat so don’t care
The plastic magazine I picked up even has a case specific top/feed lips.
Only issue with plastic magazines as you all know, it cuts down on magazine length, especially if you’ve got a plastic tipped bullet
what seems to be the best magazines for the six ARC?
I picked some up that were the metal magazines and it looks like they compressed a normal size spring. It would fit in a standard 30 round magazine, into a 5 shot 6arc mag.
I cut the spring down and I have a very soft easy feeding magazine , not only does not mark the brass up. It feels about the same spring in a AW 308 magazine
Not enough pressure to trigger the last round bolt hold back though …not going to combat so don’t care
The plastic magazine I picked up even has a case specific top/feed lips.
Only issue with plastic magazines as you all know, it cuts down on magazine length, especially if you’ve got a plastic tipped bullet
i've been able to deburr and polish the stamped edge of the metal magazine feed lips, so that they do not gouge out or cut grooves into the brass as the bolt pushes it forward out of the mag. It's an OCD thing, to look at the shot brass, and there's no scratches on the side. I use small polishing stone hand files, 1/4" half-round seems to work best, followed by fine grit sandpaper, and maybe dremel felt cone and polishing compound.
the manufacturing stamping process of metal mags leaves a very sharp, rough edge at the mag feed lips. if you have the time, a little investment there will yields some rewards.
I also have to deburr and polish the sharp edges of the barrel extension feed ramp, so that no scratches are incurred as the cartridge is feed up the ramp into the chamber, and also the edges of the barrel extension locking lugs at the 3 o'clock position, so that there's no scratches imparted on extraction. I also polish the top-side of the extractor (helps feeding) and deburr the corners (cuts down on vampire marks). be sure to not change any extractor angles that are needed for reliably grabbing the brass, though, for successful extraction.
you can also polish the top of the ejector.
like I said, it doesn't improve the functioning of an already functional rifle, but it's just an OCD thing of personal craftsmanship, fine tuning.
there's a detailed guide to this on The Other Site, "Hellbenders guide" something or other. certainly not invented by me.
bottom line: if the edge of the mag feed lip is causing the scratch, focus your attention there, not on the mag spring, JMHO.
But each of us have our own way of looking at things, your perspective is certainly unique. "to each, their own." 'murica!
Found out the plastic mag I had..
Plastic mag= amend2 Grendel
I do all the feed lip sanding and polishing
On the magazines
Barrel lugs and feed ramps are deburred and polished (specially the r-side so I don’t get the dredded snake bite on the mouth of the case.
The magazines have such over powered springs for life/death situations..
This places lots of pressure on the brass a causes scrapes ect all on its own, it could be related to the magazines I purchased as they are way oversprung for there intended purpose. .
The metal mags were not oddballs for the z6arc
Plastic mag= amend2 Grendel
I do all the feed lip sanding and polishing
On the magazines
Barrel lugs and feed ramps are deburred and polished (specially the r-side so I don’t get the dredded snake bite on the mouth of the case.
The magazines have such over powered springs for life/death situations..
This places lots of pressure on the brass a causes scrapes ect all on its own, it could be related to the magazines I purchased as they are way oversprung for there intended purpose. .
The metal mags were not oddballs for the z6arc
ASC 6 ARC SS mags run like butter for me zero issues not a single modification
Here's the results from my loads testing seating depth. I had one round failed to fire probably due to no powder, and I had one instance of the gun doubling and it threw the shot up onto the next page. Not sure if it was trigger rest issue or if I managed to bump fire the round. But regardless the hornday 108's and berger 108 elite hunters just don't want to shot. The hornday 75gr vmax did ok but velocities felt kinda low. The barnes 105 match burners still did really well especially the 29.4gr load with an 1.5 es, and .6 std! I'm gonna play with the 105 match burners some more in a week. As for the horndays and bergers I don't know why they just won't shoot. Maybe it the crimp, maybe it's the dies but something isn't right. I also had a hell of time getting a consistent seating dept with them, plus they had rings on the projectiles from the seating stem. I'm just kind of at a loss on those.
Padom, I've been doing some reading on other dies and I'm curious why you didn't run the mighty armory sizing die for the 6mm arc?
Padom, I've been doing some reading on other dies and I'm curious why you didn't run the mighty armory sizing die for the 6mm arc?
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FWIW I use the Short Action Customs seater. Made two bushings that taper lock into the very bottom edge of the die. One is 6ARC & the other is .224V, works excellent.
The sleeve length just engages the spring loaded sliding sleeve in the SAC die by .010, so to remove it you just push a case in & slip your finger off the side SAC spring sleeve gives it a snap and it pops right out.
Edit: the 2 stems with this seater have seated everything I’ve ever tried without damage.
The sleeve length just engages the spring loaded sliding sleeve in the SAC die by .010, so to remove it you just push a case in & slip your finger off the side SAC spring sleeve gives it a snap and it pops right out.
Edit: the 2 stems with this seater have seated everything I’ve ever tried without damage.
It was out of stock at the time I bought my 6 ARC sizing die
The flag on the MI receiver rod is held on by two screws and removeable. I've used it the way you describe the Geiselle.
update:
28.0gr of lever with a 105 berger vld hybrid, cci450 out of a 18 inch odin barrel, made first round impacts out to 1000 yards. With the 106 atip factory seconds I was using the same load but I was able to make first round impacts at 1200 yards on a 2/3 IPSC. running about 2600FPS out of both.
Has any one tried AR-Comp much in their ARC? I realize it's faster than optimal, but I shot this spread to check for velocity last time out, and it wasn't bad. The case heads were pristine, and I usually have a little ejector marking on my brass from my standard LVR loads suppressed, although that admittedly is from timing since I have it gassed in bleed off mode to run suppressed and unsuppressed. I think 26.6 is probably getting over ARC pressure but I may load up 26.3 and 26.6 to see how they group.
Velocity spread and my normal load same day in the 18" for comparison.
Velocity spread and my normal load same day in the 18" for comparison.
It's my go to powder with 85's. Stupid accurate and great speed. Read back a few pages to see my targets and data
I found a load with AR Comp and 90 TGK that shoots tiny groups at 2890 from a 22" barrel. It's my favorite powder for Grendel and 77s in 223.
It was my main powder in my Grendel and I also use it in .308. I have some 90gr TGKs laying around, curious what your load is?
I shot these spreads with AR-Comp and RL15.5 a while ago, but haven't worked up a load with either, probably stopped a bit low with the AR-Comp.
When doing load development with 90 TGK all my groups were under 3/4" and this was the best. Verification on another day confirmed that this combo hammers. This is in a 22" Craddock RTR.
...back in the advent of the 6ARC someone in one of the FB groups ran the QL numbers for ALL powders, here are the lists for the 95 , 103 & 108 Hdy projectiles. CAVEAT, this data was posted in 2020 so as always, do your safety workups.
14.5" 6 ARC with factory loaded Hornady 108 ELD-M's. The shot was at 130 yards, liquified the heart then deflected off of a rib on the backside into the shoulder joint. He went 5-10 yards and dropped stone cold dead. It's a sample size of one at this point but color me impressed so far. For a low fence Texas Hill Country buck he's a solid harvest, 8 points and 103 lb carcass weight.
14.5" Proof Carbon Fiber barrel LMT converted by D. Wilson. 100 rounds down the tube, unsuppressed (HuxWrx Flow 6K in jail) shooting Hornady factory loaded 108 ELD-M's. I hope those numbers jump up with a few hundred more rounds down the tube and the addition of the suppressor as I was hoping to be around 2500fps. The final three round group was a banger.
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KAK has had a 12.5" mid-gas 6 ARC barrel product page on their site for a few weeks now, but it finally came in stock so I have one on the way to keep my 18" and 21" ARCs company. It's a low end barrel obviously, but I've had good luck with the same format from them in 5.56, and I'm going to try to get this shorty ARC up and in business before rifle season opens at the end of this month.
The HuxWrx Flow 6K can cleared so I got it back to the range to re-zero before I head back to the deer stand this weekend. It looks like it averages 0.750-0.800" groups with the factory 108's and I can live with that for a 14.5" gun. 2465fps average velocity, fingers crossed that will creep up at or near 2500fps in time. SD is solid but the ES could be a touch better, both are more than acceptable for box ammo.
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I popped a smaller female Aoudad at 113 yards this weekend with 108 ELD-M. Neck shot, dropped her right where she stood.
So what is the powder everyone seems to have settled on for the 108 grain loads? I am about ready to start loading for mine. I finally have depleted the factory ammo I bought for barrel break in and learning the platform a little more. I see AR comp for the 90ish grain loads. I am sitting on a full case of 108 ELDM to start load development.
With the factory Hornady 108 I am getting around 2670 for velocity with the 20" Proof barrel. If I can keep it around there I would be happy.
With the factory Hornady 108 I am getting around 2670 for velocity with the 20" Proof barrel. If I can keep it around there I would be happy.
Broke in the home build today. 20rds of factory 103 ELDX Precision Hunter. Will debut during a late season doe hunt in Nebraska. Last 5 shot group was 0.78 at 100m. Hoping it will snug up as the barrel is broken in. Barrel is a Noveske SPR, 18".
Temp: 28F
Alt: 2,231ft
Baro: 29.89 and falling
Humidity: 89%
Dew: 30F
Wind, left to right 5mph
Temp: 28F
Alt: 2,231ft
Baro: 29.89 and falling
Humidity: 89%
Dew: 30F
Wind, left to right 5mph
I'm doing 26.5 grains of Varget under a 108. That nets me 2430fps from a 16" proof. Very consistent. I've had single digit SDs either 30+ rounds.
I've tried 28.3 CFE 223 and get 2500fps from the same barrel but SDs are usually in mid to high teens.
Varget/cfe is 2480/2540 in my 18" proof respectively.
If min maxing velocity isn't your goal, I'd give Varget a try.
I ran Hornady factory loaded 80 ELD-VT, 103 ELD-X, 105 BTHP and 108 ELD-M at 100 today to get velocity and group numbers from my 14.5" Proof CF. The 108's are still slower than I'd like to see at 2450, the 105's averaged 2510, 103's saw 2555 and the 80's came out to 2740. The group on the 108's was 3/4", the 105's were 1.25", the 103's came in just under 1" and the 80's were horrid at 2". I left my rear bag at home so it might have played a role in some of the groups but it was still in the prone with a bipod and well supported at the rear.
She's been keeping me company in the deer blind this season, I am hoping to take one more with it before I call this season a wrap.
She's been keeping me company in the deer blind this season, I am hoping to take one more with it before I call this season a wrap.
I'm planning my first 6arc build and was looking for current barrel input. I've read through most of the recent 6arc threads and have decided on a 16" barrel, however I wanted input on the barrel choice. I've got it nailed down to 3 options at this point, all at slightly different price points. For context priority for the rifle will be accuracy. It will be used for hunting, shooting steel, and maybe a scoped carbine course one day. It will likely get a JP BCG and Superlative AGB as well.
The RTR which is intermediate gas and cheapest, Proof which is rifle length and slightly more, and finally a Craddock Bartlein also rifle length. My dilemma is the Bartlein is twice the price of the RTR, and would have a long lead time. Will it perform that much better than the RTR? I have custom bolt guns and I'm well aware of Bartlein quality but I've also got a Rock Creek from PVA that's a laser as well. I see mixed comments about the Proof barrels but it would fit in the middle of these price wise and may also be the best choice of these 3. I don't want to skimp on the build by any means but when the RTR and Proof are available now it's a tougher decision.
The RTR which is intermediate gas and cheapest, Proof which is rifle length and slightly more, and finally a Craddock Bartlein also rifle length. My dilemma is the Bartlein is twice the price of the RTR, and would have a long lead time. Will it perform that much better than the RTR? I have custom bolt guns and I'm well aware of Bartlein quality but I've also got a Rock Creek from PVA that's a laser as well. I see mixed comments about the Proof barrels but it would fit in the middle of these price wise and may also be the best choice of these 3. I don't want to skimp on the build by any means but when the RTR and Proof are available now it's a tougher decision.
I've only had Proof in two different lengths but both have been 1/2" shooters with 108's. I have no reason to look or suggest elsewhere.
VV just announced 6 ARC reloading data for anyone looking for VV powder data... Their test setup for the data below is a 20" 1-7 barrel with Starline brass and small rifle primers...
Quick take away from the below data they posted... N540 looks like the ticket for higher velocities.... I shoot N540 for this same reason in both 22BR and 22GT and it shoots super tiny groups with higher velocities with no temp issues....
www.vihtavuori.com
Quick take away from the below data they posted... N540 looks like the ticket for higher velocities.... I shoot N540 for this same reason in both 22BR and 22GT and it shoots super tiny groups with higher velocities with no temp issues....
Reloading data tool for rifle, handgun and cowboy action shooting - Vihtavuori
VIHTAVUORI RELOADING DATA FOR RIFLE, HANDGUN AND COWBOY ACTION SHOOTING LOADS ENSURE A SUCCESSFUL AND SAFE RELOADING RESULT Vihtavuori has developed a new online search engine to make reloading data even easier to access! Our new reloading data search tool enables you to search for all the...
www.vihtavuori.com
Looks like good velocities. Seems a lot more temp stable than LVR. I lose 100f/s with Varget. Not a huge deal but just saying.VV just announced 6 ARC reloading data for anyone looking for VV powder data... Their test setup for the data below is a 20" 1-7 barrel with Starline brass and small rifle primers...
Quick take away from the below data they posted... N540 looks like the ticket for higher velocities.... I shoot N540 for this same reason in both 22BR and 22GT and it shoots super tiny groups with higher velocities with no temp issues....
Reloading data tool for rifle, handgun and cowboy action shooting - Vihtavuori
VIHTAVUORI RELOADING DATA FOR RIFLE, HANDGUN AND COWBOY ACTION SHOOTING LOADS ENSURE A SUCCESSFUL AND SAFE RELOADING RESULT Vihtavuori has developed a new online search engine to make reloading data even easier to access! Our new reloading data search tool enables you to search for all the...
VV just announced 6 ARC reloading data for anyone looking for VV powder data... Their test setup for the data below is a 20" 1-7 barrel with Starline brass and small rifle primers...
Quick take away from the below data they posted... N540 looks like the ticket for higher velocities.... I shoot N540 for this same reason in both 22BR and 22GT and it shoots super tiny groups with higher velocities with no temp issues....
Reloading data tool for rifle, handgun and cowboy action shooting - Vihtavuori
VIHTAVUORI RELOADING DATA FOR RIFLE, HANDGUN AND COWBOY ACTION SHOOTING LOADS ENSURE A SUCCESSFUL AND SAFE RELOADING RESULT Vihtavuori has developed a new online search engine to make reloading data even easier to access! Our new reloading data search tool enables you to search for all the...
It's pretty interesting comparing yet another source of load data against recorded user velocities from Hornady factory ammo and QL output. For reference, in QL, 6ARC with 107SMK and N540 going 2526fps from a 20" barrel lines up almost perfectly with 52kPSI.
Yea LVR was no go for me with the temp issues I had and the pressure being reported by QL.
AR Comp has been excellent with much lower pressure and stupid accuracy with 80/90s. Ill play with N540 and see how it does since I have 16# of it..
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I didn’t have a huge velocity difference with lever between 100 degrees and 35 degrees same 28.0 load of lever with the 106gr a-tips. 2550-2580 over a 20 shot string. I think I need to clean my Odin barrel. It went from shooting sub minute groups to about a foot and a half circle today. I’ll clean it good and report again tomorrow and see if I can get some hits on my 700 yard target
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