Federal does it again šŸ˜…

#201
Mean_Man said:
ā€œMost huntersā€ probably shouldnā€™t take a shot past 300yards Iā€™d wagerā€¦ not on the east coast anyway, luckily for the animals thereā€™s not usually enough clear view to take a shot much further than that. Gravity isnā€™t the issue itā€™s the wind holds and people taking stupid shots because muh .300WM šŸ™„

Shot placement has always been king.

I have to wonder how many hunters even have a means of holding off for wind in their reticle?
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Same in the South... Most hunters can't hit shit consistently at 100 yards... I watch them all the time at the range, and occasionally sneak a glance through the scope over to check out their "groups", if you can even call them that... Looks like someone shot buckshot downrange. šŸ¤£
 
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#202
Wannashootit said:
I would love to know


This is THE only question I have. Different alloy? I mean, they can't change the dimensions of the receivers- too much rides on that standardization.

Or, are they gonna tell us they've always been good for 80,000 psi?

Savage?

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As per my earlier post, total bolt thust on a standard case head diameter at 80,000psi is less than total bolt thrust on a magnum diameter at 65000psi. More meat in the bolt and barrel than magnum diameter too to support itself. If they can't support this cartridge they shouldn't be chambering any magnums and especially not Lapua boltface cartridges.
 
#203
If a 16ā€ 7mm Back Country is doing 2920fps with a 170gr Terminal Ascent, then a 22ā€ barrel will be doing ~3100fps.

That Terminal Ascent bullet is awesome for expansion and weight retention.

So are Nosler ABLRs.
 
#204
FuhQ said:
Same in the South... Most hunters can't hit shit consistently at 100 yards... I watch them all the time at the range, and occasionally sneak a glance through the scope over to check out their "groups", if you can even call them that... Looks like someone shot buckshot downrange. šŸ¤£
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I used to do a lot of load development at a local range run by DNR. It's pretty rare that shooters there are able to produce tighter groups than I am with AR-15s and AR-10s, and thatā€™s guys with trick bolt guns and hunting rifles.

Right before and into rifle season, it gets really scary when you see what results people are getting even at 100yds.

A common problem Iā€™ve seen is decent and high-end rifles, with Chinesium mounts and rings topped with Cabellaā€™s brand glass, or whatever the cheapest piece of trash optic they found to mount on the rifle.

Of course these are mostly on 300 Win Mag, 7mm Rem Mag, .30-06, .270 Win, 338 Win Mag, etc.

Total waste of time to even break shots with that kind of mount/optic set-up. The scopes will fail. Lots of turret backlash, single fastener rings (LOL), no Loc-tite on bases or rings, basically airsoft-grade excrement.

Itā€™s sad because entry-level Leupold hunting scopes and rings are very affordable if you have to stoop low.

That range does offer sight-in and mounting services though to try to square away hunters who arenā€™t educated about rifle set-up.
 
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#205
LRRPF52 said:
I used to do a lot of load development at a local range run by DNR. It's pretty rare that shooters there are able to produce tighter groups than I am with AR-15s and AR-10s, and thatā€™s guys with trick bolt guns and hunting rifles.

Right before and into rifle season, it gets really scary when you see what results people are getting even at 100yds.

A common problem Iā€™ve seen is decent and high-end rifles, with Chinesium mounts and rings topped with Cabellaā€™s brand glass, or whatever the cheapest piece of trash optic they found to mount on the rifle.

Of course these are mostly on 300 Win Mag, 7mm Rem Mag, .30-06, .270 Win, 338 Win Mag, etc.

Total waste of time to even break shots with that kind of mount/optic set-up. The scopes will fail. Lots of turret backlash, single fastener rings (LOL), no Loc-tite on bases or rings, basically airsoft-grade excrement.

Itā€™s sad because entry-level Leupold hunting scopes and rings are very affordable if you have to stoop low.

That range does offer sight-in and mounting services though to try to square away hunters who arenā€™t educated about rifle set-up.
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True story... I used to occasionally go with friends to hunt public land when invited (my family always had private/family land to hunt on). When I was 16-18 I worked in a gun store behind the gun counter... I met the average hunter on a daily basis... Needless to say, after all those interactions, I have hunted public land about 3 times in the last 20 years. I don't feel safe being in the woods with Elmer Fuckin' Fudd with granddaddy's "trusty ol' awt-six" with a 30 year old box of Remington Core-Lokt's with only 5 missing, and a 40 year old "Loo-pold" gold ring in dovetails on top, who will literally shoot anything that moves and thinks everything is a deer.

Oh, I end up helping these folks on a regular basis, just trying to be nice, when I see them struggling...Typically at the expense of my OWN shooting needs while I'm there on a set time-frame trying to get my own shit situated or load development done. It's like, dude I offered to help you get sighted in, and now I've got you on paper, figure it out yourself how to get it to the bullseye from there. I'm not your personal spotter, and this ain't the 1K at Benning. If you don't have a scope good enough to see your hits at 100 yards, then please bring your own spotting scope, or a buddy who can spot for you through their's. I'm not going to spend the next 30 minutes to an hour dicking around with your shit, when I have my own shit to do. šŸ¤¦šŸ¼
 
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#206

The Czech industrial group CSG has completed the takeover of The Kinetic group, the leading U.S. manufacturer of small-caliber ammunition.​

The Kinetic Group, which was formed by the spin-off of the Sporting Products division from the publicly traded Vista Outdoor, brings together leading American manufacturers and brands of small-caliber ammunition for pistols, revolvers, rifles and shotguns: Federal, Remington, CCI, Speer and Hevi-Shot. The group also includes the gunpowder brand Alliant Powder. The manufacturing facilities are located in Minnesota, Arkansas, Idaho and Oregon and employ a total of 3,800 people. The headquarters are based in Anoka, Minnesota. It generated $1.5 billion in Revenue in its fiscal year 2024 with $416 million EBITDA.
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ammo.czechoslovakgroup.com

CSG consummates the acquisition of The Kinetic Group

ammo.czechoslovakgroup.com ammo.czechoslovakgroup.com
 
#207
Slides said:
As per my earlier post, total bolt thust on a standard case head diameter at 80,000psi is less than total bolt thrust on a magnum diameter at 65000psi. More meat in the bolt and barrel than magnum diameter too to support itself. If they can't support this cartridge they shouldn't be chambering any magnums and especially not Lapua boltface cartridges.
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I understand bolt thrust- and that's exactly my point.
A typical production short action with the common .473 +/- boltface isn't designed for 80,000 psi cartridges. It's designed around chamber pressures in the low 60's. Of course there's significant safety margin- but that's irrelevant as to my point. Same size casehead will produce more bolt thrust from the higher pressure case. Probably only a matter of round count until the lugs have pounded the abutments enough to start setting them back.

It would be a simple enough test- and I'm sure it's been done. Put 2K rounds through an off-the-shelf production receiver and check headspace every few hundred rounds.
 
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#208
Wannashootit said:
I understand bolt thrust- and that's exactly my point.
A typical production short action with the common .473 +/- boltface isn't designed for 80,000 psi cartridges. It's designed around chamber pressures in the low 60's. Of course there's significant safety margin- but that's irrelevant as to my point. Same size casehead will produce more bolt thrust from the higher pressure case. Probably only a matter of round count until the lugs have pounded the abutments enough to start setting them back.

It would be a simple enough test- and I'm sure it's been done. Put 2K rounds through an off-the-shelf production receiver and check headspace every few hundred rounds.
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Most manufacturers arenā€™t going to post their max numbers. But almost every modern bolt action can handle well above 80k psi.

Brass casings are the weak link. Actions donā€™t blow up when brass fails and itā€™s under the yield point for the action.

But actions also donā€™t stop pieces of brass and other such things that end up blowing out of various spots that can injure a shooter.

When an action actually blows up, pressure are far higher than what it takes to separate case heads and such.


TLDR: youā€™re just making assumptions on what actions are and arenā€™t designed for.

For your assumptions to be accurate, then youā€™d be saying that federal is releasing a cartridge that isnā€™t going to be safe in actions that arenā€™t specifically designed for it. Which in turn, action manufacturers would be on a mountaintop telling their customers to not use it in normal actions.
 
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#209
Wannashootit said:
I understand bolt thrust- and that's exactly my point.
A typical production short action with the common .473 +/- boltface isn't designed for 80,000 psi cartridges. It's designed around chamber pressures in the low 60's. Of course there's significant safety margin- but that's irrelevant as to my point. Same size casehead will produce more bolt thrust from the higher pressure case. Probably only a matter of round count until the lugs have pounded the abutments enough to start setting them back.

It would be a simple enough test- and I'm sure it's been done. Put 2K rounds through an off-the-shelf production receiver and check headspace every few hundred rounds.
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Nearly all typical production actions have the same outside bolt diameter and lugs as their magnum variants, it's literally less load than the magnums put on the lugs even assuming case deformation like brass which doesn't appear to be what actually happens.
 
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#210
Wannashootit said:
I understand bolt thrust- and that's exactly my point.
A typical production short action with the common .473 +/- boltface isn't designed for 80,000 psi cartridges. It's designed around chamber pressures in the low 60's. Of course there's significant safety margin- but that's irrelevant as to my point. Same size casehead will produce more bolt thrust from the higher pressure case. Probably only a matter of round count until the lugs have pounded the abutments enough to start setting them back.

It would be a simple enough test- and I'm sure it's been done. Put 2K rounds through an off-the-shelf production receiver and check headspace every few hundred rounds.
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In the firearms industry, we generally follow a Factor of Safety of 2. So if the SAAMI MAP is 58,000psi, the action needs to handle 116ksi. The big companies will also pyramid-test the original batch of test rifles with a large round count, far exceeding what even high-volume shooters might ever shoot in a lifetime so they can discover any weak points in the design.

Most WWII and post-War bolt actions have extremely stout actions with high-strength steels and solid lock-up.

At least one of the rifle-builders working with Federal tested their actions to 120,000psi for proof work.

Actions have to be tested both for bolt thrust and hoop stress. A smaller diameter chamber with thicker chamber walls has good hoop strength, whereas thin walls can get pushed around and egg-out over time. Magnums and fat cases have thinner chamber walls, unless the action is enlarged. The steel action contributes to the hoop strength, in combination with the barrelā€™s threaded tennon.

In AR-15s, the barrel extension contributes to the hoop strength, effectively replacing the legacy full steel action design.

Itā€™s why you see so many pressure relief cuts in the DPMS GII and the Ruger SFAR.
 
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#211
Thanks for seeing my point. Ethical shot is a hot topic of mine. I hunt Michigan, have no problem admitting Im a complete novice to hunting. However, in that same regard, I likely spend more time behind my rifles than the entirety of the guys who show up on "sight in days" at the club I belong to.

In my state, we're limited to straight wall calibers, which peter out around 200 yards, and have the BC of a clay pigeon.

Despite that, its not uncommon to run into guys here who wont "take shots past 100 yards". The lack of practice is obvious. Equipment isn't the larger handicap in the overwhelming majority of these situations.

I sighted in a friend's springfield 30.06 hunting rifle recently, who was a 10+ year hunter with no time to sight in last year due to work. He exclusively hunts northern michigan where those straight wall caliber rules dont apply.

He handed me a rifle with 4 different kinds of ammo, in a sling. He had no clue what he was shooting in between those 4. I thought it was going to be a mess at the range. I had it sighted in in under 10 shots, and thats including progressing from 50 to 100 yards at my club, to verify zero.

I was impressed by the accuracy, but it kicked HARD compared to my "women and children" 350 legend hunting rifle. I run into a lot of guys who are "recoil-shy" to their own detriment and likely would fall apart on a 300-yard+ shot in a western hunt, from my state. Cant imagine them lobbying rounds at 500 yards+ at anything short of a barn, and still missing. These are the same types of people that never practice any position other than seated at a bench, despite a hang-on tree stand resembling nothing like that.

Im not trying to harp on hunters, but I see the most fudd shit and bad habits consistently resonate from that group, so when I hear things like "not enough gun past 500", my eyes glaze over and I instantly picture guys who cant mount their own scope, and pay the brick and mortar shop to zero their rifle in the first place.
 
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#215
gamewarden said:
From what I've been told there will be some additional info coming this week and not related to 7BC...
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So I wonder if it will be .473ā€ case head based, or something else.

From everything Iā€™ve seen with high-grade steel 5.56/.378ā€ case head, itā€™s not that impressive.

For example, Black Arc is doing 77gr from an 18ā€ barrel at 2920fps.

Just not enough case capacity to make that big of a difference.

What would be interesting is rifle performance from a pistol cartridge.

Say a 9x25-esque blaster cranking the heat.

9x25 Dillon with 90gr already does 2000-2500fps depending on barrel length, the higher mv from 16ā€.

Maybe you could get 2500fps from a 5-6ā€ barrel?

Or a 9mm necked to .30 Cal.

That would be sick in a full-sized handgun.
 
#216
LRRPF52 said:
A good way to steer the wrong conversations about which magnum is the biggest/bestest is to simply say,

ā€œAwesome! Whatā€™s your hit % on a 12ā€ plate from a seated position in the field? Are you using a tripod or just shooting sticks?"

ā€œDo you practice shooting off a pack from seated position?"
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You're likely to get a fabricated answer.

As much as I don't really enjoy the guy, watching old Erik Cortina showcase a bunch of "Joes" trying to CBS a MOA target at 500 from a prone position with the latest PRS cartridges is a reality-maker. Yes, a lot of near misses would have resulted in dead deer...but there would be a lot of tracking involved.

I would think that a field position version would be pretty entertaining to watch, but that the success rate would be pretty humbling.
 
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#217
LRRPF52 said:
A good way to steer the wrong conversations about which magnum is the biggest/bestest is to simply say,

ā€œAwesome! Whatā€™s your hit % on a 12ā€ plate from a seated position in the field? Are you using a tripod or just shooting sticks?"

ā€œDo you practice shooting off a pack from seated position?"
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All at 100 yards right? : D
 
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#219
Classic example... two different customers. I handled one and one of the other guys handled the other.

One guy says... I put 140 rounds down the barrel with no cleaning. Accuracy isn't good and it's fouling bad. .....yeah at 80k psi or more .... ya think!

He also said he bought the brass online and loaded it himself. This is 277SF. No idea what the pressures are at he just loaded it up. Said he has broken two bolts. Cracked the lugs. You think he would've stopped using the loads after breaking the first bolt?

NO WARRANTY!
 
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#220
diggler1833 said:
You're likely to get a fabricated answer.

As much as I don't really enjoy the guy, watching old Erik Cortina showcase a bunch of "Joes" trying to CBS a MOA target at 500 from a prone position with the latest PRS cartridges is a reality-maker. Yes, a lot of near misses would have resulted in dead deer...but there would be a lot of tracking involved.

I would think that a field position version would be pretty entertaining to watch, but that the success rate would be pretty humbling.
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Great example.

the first challenge EC did, a buddy of mine was the guy who hit the target in this video.

The equipment featured in these videos definitely gives pause to a lot of guys talking about "shots past 500" for hunting.

The setups in this video were easily $3000+, heavy ass rigs, that no one is carrying around out west.

Keep in mind these videos are situations where you have ample time to setup your shot, get comfortable, daylight, etc etc every advantage possible.

Last season I shot at a buck which I spotted glancing pretty much over my shoulder. Had to completely turn sideways, sitting on a hang-on, where one of the seat pins broke off mid-shot. He donkey-kicked and then stood there..then I watched him slowly head into an overgrown field off the field edge..I imagined I'd be greeted with a collapsed buck once we got down to track later..250 yards, blood everywhere, and we were not able to recover him after tracking (he was still plenty alive and took off when we got close...coyotes got him later that night unfortunately when we went back for tracking round 2).

I learned a few lessons there:

1. I wont shoot past 200 with straight-wall/350 legend (a few were lost this year in my group all past that distance).
2. Practicing shots I would never imagine trying at the range (not seated at a bench, or prone..neither happens in the woods for me)...even possibly implementing some of the sling work I've seen guys do to support their standing service rifle shots..
3. I did not shoot enough at 200 with this rifle to understand it well, just knew the drop..roughly...from a few shots. All my practice and sight in was at 100..which is common for michigan, as we rarely get shots past 100 yards in most of the terrain here.

Point being, with my novice ramblings aside, its never as easy as it is in the youtube videos, in real life. Im partially colorblind to boot. Without snow, my tracking is handicapped. I cant imagine hiking out 500+ yards over western terrain to look for blood. I have a hard time believing most are doing this and recovering game successfully after, even without my issue of not seeing certain colors.

A lot of guys make their buying decisions on hypothetical scenarios they imagine will happen in their head. Once you get out there to actually hunt, its very humbling. Its like buying a track-capable car for daily driving. Sure the potential is there, but most guys I know have never seen a day at the track, or a professional driving course to even know how to drive the car to its potential to begin with.
 
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#221
AleksanderSuave said:
Great example.

the first challenge EC did, a buddy of mine was the guy who hit the target in this video.

The equipment featured in these videos definitely gives pause to a lot of guys talking about "shots past 500" for hunting.

The setups in this video were easily $3000+, heavy ass rigs, that no one is carrying around out west.

Keep in mind these videos are situations where you have ample time to setup your shot, get comfortable, daylight, etc etc every advantage possible.

Last season I shot at a buck which I spotted glancing pretty much over my shoulder. Had to completely turn sideways, sitting on a hang-on, where one of the seat pins broke off mid-shot. He donkey-kicked and then stood there..then I watched him slowly head into an overgrown field off the field edge..I imagined I'd be greeted with a collapsed buck once we got down to track later..250 yards, blood everywhere, and we were not able to recover him after tracking (he was still plenty alive and took off when we got close...coyotes got him later that night unfortunately when we went back for tracking round 2).

I learned a few lessons there:

1. I wont shoot past 200 with straight-wall/350 legend (a few were lost this year in my group all past that distance).
2. Practicing shots I would never imagine trying at the range (not seated at a bench, or prone..neither happens in the woods for me)...even possibly implementing some of the sling work I've seen guys do to support their standing service rifle shots..
3. I did not shoot enough at 200 with this rifle to understand it well, just knew the drop..roughly...from a few shots. All my practice and sight in was at 100..which is common for michigan, as we rarely get shots past 100 yards in most of the terrain here.

Point being, with my novice ramblings aside, its never as easy as it is in the youtube videos, in real life. Im partially colorblind to boot. Without snow, my tracking is handicapped. I cant imagine hiking out 500+ yards over western terrain to look for blood. I have a hard time believing most are doing this and recovering game successfully after, even without my issue of not seeing certain colors.

A lot of guys make their buying decisions on hypothetical scenarios they imagine will happen in their head. Once you get out there to actually hunt, its very humbling. Its like buying a track-capable car for daily driving. Sure the potential is there, but most guys I know have never seen a day at the track, or a professional driving course to even know how to drive the car to its potential to begin with.
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I make a lot of my decisions based off of hypothetical scenarios too :LOL:.
 
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#222
I should have phrased that betterā€¦

Maybe the idea is being realistic about how likely those hypothetical scenarios are.

Best example I can give is all of the people who buy RVs imagining theyā€™d use them close to year roundā€¦in reality most of them sit parked in storage most of the year.

Shit purchase based on some pie in the sky idea romanticizing life on the road.
 
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#223
AleksanderSuave said:
I should have phrased that betterā€¦

Maybe the idea is being realistic about how likely those hypothetical scenarios are.

Best example I can give is all of the people who buy RVs imagining theyā€™d use them close to year roundā€¦in reality most of them sit parked in storage most of the year.

Shit purchase based on some pie in the sky idea romanticizing life on the road.
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Yeah... I still do that too... Just with guns.

I have a couple safes full of old guns that were purchased because I wanted to be a cowboy, Colt collector, S&W collector, military historian, 1911 aficionado, etc... :D

*****

Probably the only thing you won't find is a 7mm Brokeback...

ETA, I get where you're going with your post.
 
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#225
diggler1833 said:
Yeah... I still do that too... Just with guns.

I have a couple safes full of old guns that were purchased because I wanted to be a cowboy, Colt collector, S&W collector, military historian, 1911 aficionado, etc... :D

*****

Probably the only thing you won't find is a 7mm Brokeback...

ETA, I get where you're going with your post.
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Im with you. If I ever grow up to be "man enough" for a magnum sized caliber, I'll likely grab something proven.

Being able to find extra ammo in whatever area or state you travel to, is an often forgotten benefit, for hunting. Im not lugging the whole reloading station with me on a hunt, and Ive heard of guys travel from one extreme to another (temperature-wise), only to find out that their hand-loads wont chamber or cycle.

I've also gotten better at selling off shit I dont need. A 357 magnum snub nose, tikka tac a1, sig p228, VEPR 12, benelli m2 short barrel setup all come to mind that I got rid of..Im past being attached to any of this shit. If its not being actively shot, and its not a true "collector", its getting sold.
 
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#226
LRRPF52 said:
What would be interesting is rifle performance from a pistol cartridge.
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Perhaps with higher pressures, and steel/hybrid cases it'll get closer. Still going to be limited by short barrel length and case capacity, I don't see how those limiting factors can be overcome.

The NATO 5.7x28 SS190 will do 2350 fps from a rifle length barrel, albeit with a 30 grain boolit.
 
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#227
Spotted in a group earlier. The timing is hilarious.
IMG_5019.png
 
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#228
I love all the angst here about a new cartridge. Every single time any company introduces a new cartridge the same naysayers will come out of the woodwork to pooh-pooh it.

I don't care if this is an unpopular opinion: I hope this cartridge and concept is a huge success. I hope we see more cases like this offered in established chamberings if it proves to be a safe concept in already existing quality actions.

I don't care if it can't be reloaded for in an all steel alloy case, maybe a hybrid style case can be made for 7mm BC to allow reloading at some point but even then I could care less. It's not a cartridge I would ever really shoot in enough volume to bother reloading for it.

I will look to buy one next year maybe if it proves to live up to claims of performance from 18" to 20" bbls. I will use if for hunting, and will shoot it suppressed to get a suppressed hunting rifle that can yeet 175gr 7mm pills at 3K that is no longer or more unweildy than a 24"to 26" bbl conventional hunting rig. I'll find a factory load that shoots and just suck it up and buy about 300 rounds of factory ammo and probably never run through it in 20 seasons of hunting.
 
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#229
Who doesnā€™t want 7mm Rem Mag/270 Weatherby performance from a 16-20ā€ barrel that you can suppress and still be shorter than a 24-26ā€ magnum with a brake, in a standard action/magazine with .473ā€ bolt face?

Basically a 280 AI +P+++++.

I would go the 16ā€ route with a TBAC can for sure. Seems perfect for out here in the Mountain West.
 
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#230
A lightweight reasonably sized rig thatā€™s at home in the Black Hills, or out on National Grasslands and isnā€™t a complete pain in the dick getting in and out of vehicles etc is pretty compelling to me. Especially if it can hit claimed performance.

Put a TBAC Magnus S or Magnus S RR on it and get pretty nice shooting characteristics that as Burt G would say ā€œisnā€™t completely hatefulā€ to shoot.
 
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#231
LRRPF52 said:
Who doesnā€™t want 7mm Rem Mag/270 Weatherby performance from a 16-20ā€ barrel that you can suppress and still be shorter than a 24-26ā€ magnum with a brake, in a standard action/magazine with .473ā€ bolt face?

Basically a 280 AI +P+++++.

I would go the 16ā€ route with a TBAC can for sure. Seems perfect for out here in the Mountain West.
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It's a great concept for hunting where weight and length are so important as long as there is enough availability. Geissele also showing off alloy 556 cases and showing a legacy ar shooting that with basically no difference in ejection pattern shows that there also may be some potential with legacy cartridges. A short barreled 6.5 creedmoor pushing 6.5 prc velocities would be fantastic. I find it hard to complain about a company trying to push status quo forward even if long term it might not pan out. If no one did we would still be shooting 1903 Springfields.
 
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#233
Sum Ting Wong said:
Badlands ammo has been using the Shell Shock alloy 5.56 cases for a while now.
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These werenā€™t shell shock cases, but cases made out of whatever alloy federal is using. 3200 fps with a 64 grain bullet and 14.5 inch barrel. Itā€™s on their Instagram. Not sure if federal is going to be producing those or if itā€™s a proof of concept type deal. Shell shock cases are nice tho.
 
#235
Sum Ting Wong said:
Badlands ammo has been using the Shell Shock alloy 5.56 cases for a while now.
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Same with Black Arc Munitions with the NAS4 case pushing 77gr at 2920fps from 18ā€ barrels, Berger 80.5gr Full Bore at 2830fps from 18ā€ barrel.

iu


You start to see though that no matter what we do to 5.56, there just isnā€™t enough case capacity to really deliver impressive speeds unless you go down to lighter bullets. Then you can basically do 20ā€ speeds from 14.5ā€.

Youā€™re also limited in ogive length, so no high BCs will fit into AR-15 COL form factor.

The funny thing about all of this is that there are still some brass cases with relatively-small case capacity that still can crank things at high velocity.
 
#236
LRRPF52 said:
Same with Black Arc Munitions with the NAS4 case pushing 77gr at 2920fps from 18ā€ barrels, Berger 80.5gr Full Bore at 2830fps from 18ā€ barrel.

You start to see though that no matter what we do to 5.56, there just isnā€™t enough case capacity to really deliver impressive speeds unless you go down to lighter bullets.
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Iā€™d be pretty damn impressed if 77s were over 2900 in my 18ā€ gas gun.
 
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#242
375fan said:
My copy arrived today. Like all the others issues, its mostly advertisements and a waste of paper. Have told them twice to quit mailing me copies, save the money and use it on worthwhile NRA programs.
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I read the armed citizen and that's it. I get the digital version so no hard copy
 
#243
Emerson0311 said:
Even the crew at my LGS that caters mostly to hunters rolls their eyes at the 7BC. Basically a 20ā€ 28 Nosler.
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A 20ā€ bbl hitting 28 Nosler speeds with similar bullet weights is pretty impressive if it actually does it.

As a hunting tool for open country, that a guy can suppress and end up about the same size and weight as a 26ā€ bbl rifle itā€™s got some merit.

Iā€™m in the camp of progress is cool and I hope it works. If ammo is more or less affordable I can live with it not be a reloading proposition, Iā€™ve got plenty of other stuff to shoot higher volume with.
 
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#244
A 16ā€ 7mm BC shooting 170gr Terminal Ascent at 2920fps sells itself all day long.

The 6.8x51 does 135gr at 2900fps from a 13ā€.

When you factor in suppressed and overall length, youā€™re going to see more of these types of set-ups for your former Weatherby and high-dollar hunters, but the Savage and other manufacturer participation will also bring that type of performance to the middle class as well, at least those drawing Western mountain region tags mainly for elk, bear, and big horns.
 
#245
RUN8 said:
A 20ā€ bbl hitting 28 Nosler speeds with similar bullet weights is pretty impressive if it actually does it.

As a hunting tool for open country, that a guy can suppress and end up about the same size and weight as a 26ā€ bbl rifle itā€™s got some merit.

Iā€™m in the camp of progress is cool and I hope it works. If ammo is more or less affordable I can live with it not be a reloading proposition, Iā€™ve got plenty of other stuff to shoot higher volume with.
Click to expand...
Cut a 28 Nos to 20ā€. Same thing. Anywhere suppressors are verboten it has no hook.
 
#249
CMP70306 said:
Little of both, some have restrictions for straightwall cartridges while others like NJ only allow slug guns and muzzleloaders for deer.
Click to expand...
Sometimes, gummint just be gummint.

Public land where I hunt has two main sections or areas. The northern section still allows centerfire rifle (.243 W and larger.)

The southern section now only allows archery, shotgun (slug or shot,) and muzzleloader. No explanation (US Forestry Service supervision.)

And it used to be in the TPWD drawings, you could win a gun hunt permit for doe during gun season and it covered either property. Now, you can only get it for one or the other.

Gummint.
 
#250
Emerson0311 said:
Cut a 28 Nos to 20ā€. Same thing. Anywhere suppressors are verboten it has no hook.
Click to expand...

I havenā€™t seen any data on a 20ā€ bbl 28 Nosler and what it can do. I suspect it will lose a lot of velocity, so not the same thing.

As for totalitarian communist states I donā€™t hunt there so for me it doesnā€™t matter. I live in SD, and only intend to hunt here, WY, MO, NE, and MN. Legal in all those spots so happy meal for me.
 
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