Using Lapua cases , got Varget, and most 308 powders and both 4350's
.22 br
- Thread starter Dai Bando
- Start date
Went back and reviewed a lot, ont thing I noticed was that while almost everyone listed / talked about Bbl. twist, the amount of jump they used with what bullet , and of course the amount of powder and what speeds they were getting , almost no one lists the primers they used , seams as important as everything used in producing the speed / groups ????
Every one of my posted targets have full specs including primers used on them...
CCI 450s always
CCI 450s always
doing a long range varmint rifle. want to shoot the 88 eld and possibly the 62 eldvt when it comes.
hornady advised me that 7.5 twist would be good. said their bullets can only take 285k rpm so 7 twist is "too fast" for 2900 fps or so and could destroy the jackets.
y'all think I should do 7 twist or 7.5 twist?
hornady advised me that 7.5 twist would be good. said their bullets can only take 285k rpm so 7 twist is "too fast" for 2900 fps or so and could destroy the jackets.
y'all think I should do 7 twist or 7.5 twist?
Ive been running a gain twist at 6.25 with the 88gr without any issue for 2 years now, 3 barrels, 4k+ rounds already.
Im switching to 7twist to slow the un necessary rpm as the 95gr SMK are not available anymore.
Im switching to 7twist to slow the un necessary rpm as the 95gr SMK are not available anymore.
No issues running 88s 2900-3200 in a 7tw. Juts make sure you're barrel is ordered with a 219 bore VS 218. Less pressure and stress put in the jackets with the 219.
what velocity?
im interested in the 62 vt as well which im concerned about poofing.
I’ve not poofed any 88’s at 3,000fps w/1:7”. Got about a thousand rounds on the barrel.
But if I were looking for a varmint rifle, I think I’d 7.5” tops and roll 75 eld-m’s. They shoot pretty amazing out of my BR at 3150fps (probably leaving some speed on the table), and recoil even less than 88’s (not like it’s an issue in a 19lb rifle).
Those new 62 eld-vt’s look VILE.
Hate to hear they discontinued the 95 Sierras. I had been looking for them. My rifle liked them.
But if I were looking for a varmint rifle, I think I’d 7.5” tops and roll 75 eld-m’s. They shoot pretty amazing out of my BR at 3150fps (probably leaving some speed on the table), and recoil even less than 88’s (not like it’s an issue in a 19lb rifle).
Those new 62 eld-vt’s look VILE.
Hate to hear they discontinued the 95 Sierras. I had been looking for them. My rifle liked them.
Hodgdon's data says a 63g with 30.5g Varget in a 24" barrel, gets 3,307fps @ 49,300 CUP.
The 88's were whacking out in my 7 twist 223AI. 75's were fine. Sold the rifle and the owner stuck with 75's.
What is the diameter of the neck with seated bullet? Did you have to neck turn? Doughnuts? What is the neck size of the reamer you used?
Has anybody shooting the 22BR with 88 ELDMs at 3000 fps or more checked the pressures in Quick Load or GRT? I’m just curious, I’m running a 22 GT with 88s and RL 23 at 3050 and GRT says the pressure is under 50K PSI, so low pressure.
When this barrel is toast I’m considering a 22 BR, BRA or Dasher next. I’m not pushing the 22 GT hard so I figured a smaller cartridge next might be a good plan. That and I have 24 pounds of IMR 4166 that seems to work pretty good for @padom so why not?
When this barrel is toast I’m considering a 22 BR, BRA or Dasher next. I’m not pushing the 22 GT hard so I figured a smaller cartridge next might be a good plan. That and I have 24 pounds of IMR 4166 that seems to work pretty good for @padom so why not?
Dia. With bullet seated .249
Turned necks to .012
Reamer is .253 neck. 100 freebore
I turned into the neck so I don't have to worry about them. I will say since I knew my neck diameter I turned necks while I was waiting for my barrel. I'm using Peterson brass because lapua 6br is nonexistent.
Turned necks to .012
Reamer is .253 neck. 100 freebore
I turned into the neck so I don't have to worry about them. I will say since I knew my neck diameter I turned necks while I was waiting for my barrel. I'm using Peterson brass because lapua 6br is nonexistent.
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How thick were the the Peterson before turning? I despise turning hundreds up pieces of brass and then lose them at matches. How many firings do you have on them? Have you lost any to loose primer pockets?
I found a couple hundred pieces of Lapua Dasher brass I bought years ago that is supposed to be couple times fired. I might see if I can run through a sizing die back to 6 BR without destroying them. Maybe it would be wiser to just go 22 dasher with them?
I really don’t like reusing brass anymore since you don’t know if they will cause clickers or hard extraction if they were used in a loose chamber and then you try use them in min spec or proper chamber. Since Lapua is the gold standard and impossible to find since they stopped sending them over I may give them a shot.
After sizing. 014
4 and no loose pockets. A 22 dasher with maybe. 160 freebore I think would be badass.
4 and no loose pockets. A 22 dasher with maybe. 160 freebore I think would be badass.
The loaded necks were .253" prior to turning? I like 5-6 thou clearance on the necks. That would take a reamer with a .258/259 neck, meaning custom order for sure.
I noticed Alpha has a 22 Dasher reamer with a .169” free bore. Maybe this is the way to go? I wonder if I could use my 4166 with this or would need a slower burning powder?
I noticed Alpha has a 22 Dasher reamer with a .169” free bore. Maybe this is the way to go? I wonder if I could use my 4166 with this or would need a slower burning powder?
I've shot lots of 4166 in my 22BR and 22GT. Stupid accurate. So I'm sure it will shoot great in Dasher
22GT
85.5
33.4GR 4166
3194
SD6
0.4" 5 shots no seating tuning
22BR
90smk
30.2gr 4166
3094
SD2
5 shots 0.190" @ 100yd
28.7gr 4166
90smk
2971
SD 6
5 shots 0.369" @ 200yd
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33.4 is my high node in 22GT... low node one hole accuracy is 32gr 3097
I saw no pressure until 35gr.. but QL has 33.5 just over 62,000 so I wouldn't go any higher than that
That sounds promising, especially when I have 24 pounds of it. Thanks for the info!
My dear loving wife went yard / garage sale shopping while i went fishing and she came back with over 1200 Hornady 75 A Max's , at a very very good price.
I haven't been able to find much data but think I want to keep the velocity around 2900 FPS out of a 26" 1-8 tube .
I haven't been able to find much data but think I want to keep the velocity around 2900 FPS out of a 26" 1-8 tube .
That's a very mild load; I'd expect you could get 3100 easily out of that configuration.
I may be wrong , and don't know if these were early or late production , but recall reading about tips on some A Max calibers doing weird things like melting at high velocities ? got one load listing of 29.5 of Varget they list as MAX at 3150 fps.
I don't know, but Hornady themselves developed the ELD-M tip due to tips melting downrange, as observed by radar I believe.
Haven't tried the eld but am getting 3145. with a 75 vld on top of 29 gr of varget. Shoots very very soft with mind blowing accuracy out of a 8tw 24".
Was running 29.5 Varget prior with 80vld, a tad slower but no pressure to speak of.
Was running 29.5 Varget prior with 80vld, a tad slower but no pressure to speak of.
Anyone have this happen before? My 22 BRA brass gets abnormally dirty, today it was bad enough that brass was sticking in the chamber. My best guess is this is something to do with the reamer neck being too large for the brass?
22 BRA
Lapua brass
3rd firing
Only wiped down between firings which is why the necks are black.
30.7gr of Varget
90 SMK
Suppressed, Nomad-L (high back pressure, lots of blow back.)
6 Dasher, 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5 PRC all don't have this issue, only the necks get carbon on them when shooting but never the body.
Last outing I was testing Staball Match and n140, I cleaned the barrel afterwards. The brass always gets dirty compared to other calibers with the 22 BRA, I was expecting it to lessen with firings figuring the shoulder needed to continue to form and seal up the chamber better but after today I'm doubting that logic.
Here's what the fired brass looks like, many are as bad as the bottom piece.
22 BRA
Lapua brass
3rd firing
Only wiped down between firings which is why the necks are black.
30.7gr of Varget
90 SMK
Suppressed, Nomad-L (high back pressure, lots of blow back.)
6 Dasher, 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5 PRC all don't have this issue, only the necks get carbon on them when shooting but never the body.
Last outing I was testing Staball Match and n140, I cleaned the barrel afterwards. The brass always gets dirty compared to other calibers with the 22 BRA, I was expecting it to lessen with firings figuring the shoulder needed to continue to form and seal up the chamber better but after today I'm doubting that logic.
Here's what the fired brass looks like, many are as bad as the bottom piece.
A couple thoughts:
- This quote stood out to me:
Carbon can build cumulatively, so if you aren’t getting it all off the outside after each firing, it could be affecting the seal. Consider tumbling your brass.
- What’s your cleaning process for the chamber?
I haven't had an issue with other cartridges like this but you might be right. I might need to tumble these through the wet tumbler. I don't like the wet tumbler because it peens the necks in and does more damage than good (so far with all other cartridges. )
To clean the chamber I use Ramrods (big qtip like things.). I use hoppes #9 or Sweets 762 soaked on those and swab the chamber and necks then use a follow up ramrod with IPA to clean out any remaining solvents.
The 22 BRA has been noticably dirtier than other rounds which only gets carbon on the necks and have never had sticking issues. Here's a quickie shoot of 22 BRA brass shot after the second firing (correction, not the 3rd), 6 Dasher fired 7x, 6.5 Creedmoor fired 4x. The Dasher and CM have been wiped down and annealed, 22 BRA has not been.
To clean the chamber I use Ramrods (big qtip like things.). I use hoppes #9 or Sweets 762 soaked on those and swab the chamber and necks then use a follow up ramrod with IPA to clean out any remaining solvents.
The 22 BRA has been noticably dirtier than other rounds which only gets carbon on the necks and have never had sticking issues. Here's a quickie shoot of 22 BRA brass shot after the second firing (correction, not the 3rd), 6 Dasher fired 7x, 6.5 Creedmoor fired 4x. The Dasher and CM have been wiped down and annealed, 22 BRA has not been.
I’m sure there’s a root issue, such as chamber clearances or whatnot, that make it a problem for this cartridge of yours and not others. Hopefully someone can steer you in the right direction for that
My main thoughts were on how to manage the current situation, since you’re pretty much stuck with the chamber you have (although you could change the sizing die or brass if it turned out either of those were the problem).
PS: I have a wet tumbler I never use anymore; switched to fine ground walnut in a Harbor Freight vibratory, and I run the brass for 25 mins in there. Seems to get the exterior to a repeatable clean, although not shiny and pristine like the wet tumbler would. With you on the necks, I don’t want to trim every time.
Thanks, I'm going to look into a vibratory or ultrasonic cleaner. I think I am having pressure issues caused by cleaning issues due to the extra dirty neck/shoulder of my 22 BRA (which might be due to a too lose of a chamber?)I’m sure there’s a root issue, such as chamber clearances or whatnot, that make it a problem for this cartridge of yours and not others. Hopefully someone can steer you in the right direction for that
My main thoughts were on how to manage the current situation, since you’re pretty much stuck with the chamber you have (although you could change the sizing die or brass if it turned out either of those were the problem).
PS: I have a wet tumbler I never use anymore; switched to fine ground walnut in a Harbor Freight vibratory, and I run the brass for 25 mins in there. Seems to get the exterior to a repeatable clean, although not shiny and pristine like the wet tumbler would. With you on the necks, I don’t want to trim every time.
I inspected everything closer today to diagnose the issue. Pulled 6 bullets at random, weighed the charge and visually confirmed the powder was Varget, no issues here. Wiped down the brass I shot yesterday and measured a few key points. Noticed right away that about half the shot rounds had major pressure issues; the base of the brass where not in the chamber had flowed out a little bit causing a little lip like a rimmed cartridge. This is even visible on the picture I posted yesterday and didn't notice until today. Not good; at the range I was discounting that it might have been pressure because the weather was cold and I'd shot 1.0grn more powder before which was where I was seeing heavy bolt lift. I've also had a dirty chamber cause stuck brass before so I jumped the conclusion that it was the carbon causing the stuck brass. I was wrong and thankfully leaned a lesson that only cost me some confusion and ~15 pcs of brass.
Then I pulled out the bore scope and started to find issues right away. Even with my normal cleaning that should clean out the neck and shoulder there was hard baked on carbon building up in the neck and shoulder. I'm guessing because the 22 BRA is so dirty that it's depositing carbon in the necks which is causing extra pressure. I scoped my 6 Dasher barrel with 1k rounds on it and the neck is clean and doesn't have any build up.
I'm not sure why the 22 BRA gets so dirty. I think it has too much neck clearance and that might be part of it. I measured fired brass with the dirty neck at 0.257" so figure if it was clean it might be 0.258" or 0.259". Loaded rounds measure 0.2505" in the neck.
Next 22 BRA barrel I have cut will be with a .255 neck reamer that I have a 0.160" freebore. This barrel is a PVA 0.150" freebore 22 BRA, Osprey.
Dirty Chamber Neck:
Shoulder looks like it had baked on carbon as well:
I don't think it was a carbon ring issue; looks like the carbon build up was minimal between the brass and end of the neck:
I cleaned out the neck and chamber and I bet next time out it shoots without issues. Lesson is i'm going to have to clean the chamber more than normal with this barrel. Baked on carbon removed:
I tested dirty vs clean brass years ago. No difference try tumbling vs wiping off vs squeaky clean SS cleaning.
I only dry tumble my brass.
Your brass thst dirty is some other issue....you shooting suppressed?? If not, it's not sealing off.
I only dry tumble my brass.
Your brass thst dirty is some other issue....you shooting suppressed?? If not, it's not sealing off.
Good info, yeah that dirty neck area in the chamber is definitely indicative of a problem; it's not the root cause (I think you're right that you have too much clearance, my chamber is a 0.255" neck), but once those deposits build up they'll inhibit sealing even more. Good finds with the borescope, and the pressure issues. Godspeed!
Did you seat bullets long into the rifling on first shot to create a good pressure spike. My 223ai did what yours is doing on my first batch.The second i seated long and the brass was much cleaner and formed better on first firing
