.22 br
- Thread starter Dai Bando
- Start date
FYI this isn't accurate! I have a 22br Redding bushing FL. My die sizes 6br necks down without a bushing in it. You can use a 6br bushing die for 22br but not the 22br bushing die for the 6br. Just saying don't buy the 22br bushing FL die thinking you can use it for 6br also.
You have a 22br type S bushing FL and not the 6br? If you have the 6br marked die that's the difference. No it's not the "proper" size to size down to 22br without a bushing but it does size the neck down to .25x"(at work and don't remember the exact size but I think it's .256") without a bushing inserted. It's actually really nice for forming virgin 6br to 22br because it step sizes it instead of just be shoved directly into a .247" bushing. Almost like progressively using smaller bushings without actually having to swap bushings.Well how odd is that. And the neck sizing aperture on yours is the proper size for 6BR without a bushing? I think yours is goofed up
Mine requires a bushing for both 6mm and .22. It doesn't touch the neck on the 6BR with nothing in there. I use a .248 bushing for my 22BR, and for the 6BR the same .270 bushing that I use on my 6 Creedmoor. With my 6 Creedmoor die I'm able to load 22 Creedmoor, 6 Creedmoor, and 6.5mm Creedmoor by swapping the bushing.
You must have a different version than I have.
When I sized with a Redding non-bushing 22br FL sizing die I noticed that the majority of the bottom of the necks got pushed down into the shoulders a bit leaving it concaved at the neck shoulder junction. Now I have a custom honed Forster FL sizer and the Redding bushing FL sizer that I use for different circumstances.Yeh, that's interesting. Mine is the 22BR Remington Redding type S FL resize die. Mismarked from Redding maybe?
Funny you should mention that about step sizing. I used to do that for the first year. Then I shot a match with a guy running a 6BR with Norma brass (I use Lapua) and I ended up with some of it mixed in with mine. I run a progressive loader, so his fed down and got resized, I felt it was stiffer on the press, so pulled them out and caught the error every time I got one. I remember that I resized and pulled out like a half dozen of them. And looking at them later, they resized perfectly in one pass. That was the last time I stepped them down.I've probably resized 500 or 600 pieces in one pass now. It works just fine.
I am told that this is common and the shoulder build-up will push out during fireforming.
It may be common but it's also easily avoidable by either using a bushing sizing die or using a full-length sizing die that's been honed out close to(-.002) where you want the neck diameter to be before seating. As far as the donut goes using a mandrel helps but doesn't fully eliminate it so if you don't want to use a donut cutter your best bet is to set your freebore up to where your bullet is seated above where it forms.
I think you think the donut is gone because you are using a bushing die and they don't size the full length of the neck. If you run it through a non bushing full length die you'll see that it's still there even after using a mandrel because brass does rebound and unless you are turning necks the necks are thicker at the bottom. I know this to be true after trial and error with 3 different dies and a k&m neck turning tool with a donut cutting turning mandrel. Even after running a .224 sizing mandrel down the neck my .223 turning mandrel still cuts the donut at the bottom of the neck. You are doing it the easiest way by running a larger neck chamber and not sizing the donut area. Which works well if you have access a .254" or larger necked reamer.
If you are happy with how your gun shoots then doesn't really matter what's up with the brass. I've had rifles that shoot damn near anything awesome and ones that need special attention during load development. I know most people avoid any extra work if possible but I tend to like to eliminate variables if it only takes a bit of work. Not saying this is "the only way" but having correct information is helpful for troubleshooting issues that may arise.
Yeah, I wasn't necessarily disagreeing with you but more so trying to add info. My reamer is a .255" neck .195" freebore and I'm actually prepping virgin 6br Lapua brass the same way you do for a match this weekend because I don't time to do those extra steps. It's a new barrel but I'm sure it will shoot just fine without those extra steps.
I completely understand your mentality.... I shot lots of 2 day PRS matches 2016-2018, a couple in 2019, 1 in 2020, 0 in 2021 because I've pretty much switched to all 1 day matches. I hate reloading but I'm also detail oriented so my solution to that is to just shoot less at the match plus I tend to have more fun at 1 day matches. I don't have the time, money, or willpower to be competitive at 2 day matches anymore. I might jump into a 2 day again if the venue looks awesome.
The 95gr smk must be very barrel dependent. I ran a quick pressure test on it the other day and I hit mild pressure at 30.5 grs of Varget going 3016fps. The barrel is a 28" Krieger 7 twist only has 25ish rounds on it. I hit pressure much earlier on my 28" Mueller 7 twist. I think it was low 2900s
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Started my 22BR last week by placing an order for a PVA OBW; 100 FB, Competition Contour, 26", 5/8-24, .219 bore, and Jet4 Brake.
The rest of the build is looking like...
- Terminus Zeus QC
- Trigger Tech, two-stage Diamond
- MPA Matrix or Manners TCS
- MPA Mount
- XTR III, Razor G2, ZCO, or ATACR
The rest of the build is looking like...
- Terminus Zeus QC
- Trigger Tech, two-stage Diamond
- MPA Matrix or Manners TCS
- MPA Mount
- XTR III, Razor G2, ZCO, or ATACR
Please do. I'm also interested in running 85.5gr Hybrids but at a 50%+ price increase, not sure if it's worth it.
I'm running a 26 in Hawk Hill 22 br. .252 neck, freebore I don't know as my gunsmith custom throated it for me to seat above neck shoulder junction. Running the 95 smk @ 2936, absolutely no pressure. Around 3-5 fps sd consistently. Load is 31.7 H4350/cci 450s. .219 bore also
We went ahead and ordered a couple of Brux 6.5 twists to get this 22BR project moving over the winter.
Plan is to run 85.5s VLDs or 95 SMKs over Varget around 2900-2950. We’re wondering if the 6.5t will help to stabilize the heavies at distance without having to chase speed (and keep recoil to a minimum) or worry about blowing jackets.
.255 neck with .150 freebore sounds like a good in-between for what we’re trying to accomplish. No need to turn necks and a long enough throat to keep the bearing surface above the shoulder junction.
Will update once we get them spun up and have some time to start messing with them.
Plan is to run 85.5s VLDs or 95 SMKs over Varget around 2900-2950. We’re wondering if the 6.5t will help to stabilize the heavies at distance without having to chase speed (and keep recoil to a minimum) or worry about blowing jackets.
.255 neck with .150 freebore sounds like a good in-between for what we’re trying to accomplish. No need to turn necks and a long enough throat to keep the bearing surface above the shoulder junction.
Will update once we get them spun up and have some time to start messing with them.
H4350 will get you to that speed also. I'm running it at 2936 with zero pressure.
We were planning to run 28” with Mavericks. Not overly concerned about speed, though it may reach a point like you said where the 95s don’t make any sense compared to the 85s. Especially if you can get the speed easier out of the latter.
It’s also interesting to hear you mention the consistency of the SMKs as it’s definitely not the first I’ve heard about it. There’s a reason the 105 Hybrids continue to be one of the most popular bullets amongst the 6mm crowd, even with “better” bullets available in terms of on-paper performance. Wondering if Berger just has it figured out with their design even from lot to lot whereas some of the other manufacturers do not.
I'm of the opinion that jacket failures are caused by a .218 bore, especially with a 6.5 twist at creedmoor speeds. Opinion only though as all I've got to go on is I'm at 1300 +- rounds on mine, haven't popped one yet. 7 twist @2936. G7 in my gun is.304 which is gtg for me.
Ordered 1,000 88gr ELDMs & 300 Lapua 6BR brass today in anticipation. Still need to order a Zeus, TCS, and SAC Modular BR die.
Im thinking of ordering a 22 BR in .219 bore 7tw from PVA in hopes of running 88 eldm’s around 3000 fps. In your experience, should I be ok jacket wise? I really don’t want to try this if I’m going to have to deal with bullets blowing up.
I’m thinking bout getting on the 22br train but I’m confused a little on dies all I can find or 22br Remington dies and I see some guy using them on here.
I assume everyone’s running a 22br Norma chamber with lapua brass and the only option I can find in dies is a 6br norma with a 22cal bushing.
so what y’all running for dies?
I assume everyone’s running a 22br Norma chamber with lapua brass and the only option I can find in dies is a 6br norma with a 22cal bushing.
so what y’all running for dies?
I am using redding 22br rem type C full length die to size it down from 6br to 22br. Then i use a redding competition 6br die with a .247 bushing to resize after first firing and beyond.
Ok makes sense your only over working the brass once then back to the minimum.
thanks for the response
For those of you experienced with the 22BR, would an 18.5" 22BR make any sense? My idea is to take into the brush and shoot critters such as pigs, coyotes, and maybe deer during season. It would be suppressed all the time and I like the idea of running heavies. Probably anything over 77 grains.
I do have a 26" 223 with a 9 twist that shoots 77s just fine. Do you guys think the 18.5" BR would gain me much, or not in that short of a barrel?
Thanks...
I do have a 26" 223 with a 9 twist that shoots 77s just fine. Do you guys think the 18.5" BR would gain me much, or not in that short of a barrel?
Thanks...
For a short barreled killing rifle I'd go 22 creed... I get more velocity from my 20" 22 creed compared to my 28" 22br. It will take a long time to shoot out a 22 creed on a killing gun unless you are a killing machine or you just shoot it a lot for fun. If not 22 creed maybe 22gt
I have thought about the 22 creed as well. But I just know myself too well and I know whatever I build "to hunt" I'll probably also want to use to whack some steel lol. I may end up eating the barrel pretty quickly like that. Not that I'm completely against the idea, but I still thought about considering a 22BR or maybe even a GT like you mentioned.
This is just my opinion but if you plan on shooting predators or medium sized animals at beyond 300yds you need as much gun as you are willing to take because just a mph or 2 of wind can turn a kill shot to a wounding when you start stretching the distance. Animals aren't steel and a hit isn't just a hit because no matter how nasty the animal is they are just doing what they are made to do and deserve as quick of a death as any other animal.
BUTTTT if you are keeping your killing fairly close and just want to stretch out your distance on steel for fun a 18-20" 22br would be a great choice. Again just my opinion and I know that plenty of people think of yotes and pigs as trash, don't care if they suffer, and probably very much disagree with me.
Oh trust me, I won't be shooting live targets far enough. Or if I ever hunted in an area where such a shot was possible, I also have 270win, 308win, and 6.5CM so I'm covered there. However, here in the south Texas brush, my longest shot ever on a deer was 297 yards and that was out of the norm. Usually, we're not shooting past 200 yards with most shots being in the 50 - 80 yards.
Now that we've got that covered, I think I'm gonna start looking up case capacity on a 22BR case and compare to 223 just to see where in the ballpark it is. I want more quantifiable data. I see a lot of posts that include MV but no bbl length. I guess I just have to assume most of the time these are 26" bbl lengths.
FWIW, my BR has a 24” barrel + 9” suppressor (typically suppressed when chronographing, cause that’s how I shoot).
88 ELD’s run 3,000fps
95 Matchkings run 2850fps
75 ELD’s run 3,200fps
All speeds are “more or less” depending on temp more than anything, but I’m not really leaning on any of these loads.
So, if you figured 25fps/inch, you could subtract 150fps if you whacked the barrel off at 18”, and discount another 25fps if shooting unsuppressed, so minus 175fps of the above velocities.
That’s how I’d look at it, YMMV.
88 ELD’s run 3,000fps
95 Matchkings run 2850fps
75 ELD’s run 3,200fps
All speeds are “more or less” depending on temp more than anything, but I’m not really leaning on any of these loads.
So, if you figured 25fps/inch, you could subtract 150fps if you whacked the barrel off at 18”, and discount another 25fps if shooting unsuppressed, so minus 175fps of the above velocities.
That’s how I’d look at it, YMMV.
I have a 28" long throated 223 and 22br. The 22br is about 200fps faster at the same length but at shorter lengths the 223 may start to catch up because of less powder and you can use faster powders. It may have been a fast barrel but I had a 22" 223 wylde that I ran 88s at 2830fps while my 26" wylde runs them at around 2850fps and the 28" in the 2900s with a much longer throat.
I'm in the dilemma here, I have a 28" 7tw hawk hill hvy varmint, 219 bore blank. I plan to put it on my origin, I'm trying decide on 223 w/ long throat or 22br. I do have 223 brass already but no dies. Lc brass is cheap as shit and if I loose it no worries, lapua 6br whole different animal. I feel I can get much better components for the br and likely better performance. I'd plan on running Berger 85.5 or Horandy 88s. What mags can a guy run? My buddy shoots straight 6br out of accurate mag aics with NO issues in a deviant.
Mag-wise, I’ve got the 12 round MDT BR mag, but usually just run a Mag Pul 5 rounder.
All things being equal (which they rarely are), the BR will out run the .223 by 200fps or so. I do think the BR has a bit of an advantage with heavies with its longer neck.
Throat wise, mines .080” and I wish it was .1”. If was to run solely 95 Sierras, I’d go longer.
If I ever .223 in a bolt gun (and I will someday) it’ll likely get fed Lapua brass, despite having 1400 or so pieces of R-P laying around.
All things being equal (which they rarely are), the BR will out run the .223 by 200fps or so. I do think the BR has a bit of an advantage with heavies with its longer neck.
Throat wise, mines .080” and I wish it was .1”. If was to run solely 95 Sierras, I’d go longer.
If I ever .223 in a bolt gun (and I will someday) it’ll likely get fed Lapua brass, despite having 1400 or so pieces of R-P laying around.
A friend of mine has been trying to run the 85.5s. Said he's never had a more picky bullet. This is out of a bolt 223.
Just ordered my Zeus. Now only to find a PRS TCS or Matrix in the PX for a decent deal.
Anyways, does anyone run MDT BR 12 round mags in a three lug/Zeus action?
Anyways, does anyone run MDT BR 12 round mags in a three lug/Zeus action?
Who shoots this for strictly matches, will it make 3k rounds running 88s @ 3k fps from a long barrel?
What size bushing & mandrel is everyone using? I'm using Lapua brass and am planning to use .248 bushing w/ .222 mandrel. Curious about what you guys are using, please list what brass you are using too.
Since a guy is having to neck down and turn the neck all the way down and a little into the shoulder to prevent donuts, would the 22 dasher be a better route? All the possible donut area of the neck would become shoulder. This would allow sizing down with just a bushing die vs FL die. Set a false shoulder to form the case and gtg. Idk may need turned as well.
I've not paid strict attention to this thread for a while, but for all the guys fretting neck turning, I will tell you that the Redding FL .22BR die is a piece of dogshit of the first order. It WAY oversizes the neck, not only resulting in bad donuts, but a lot of collapsed shoulders (about 1 out of 5) as well. But hey, at least it's within "their spec" (Redding's words, certainly not mine). I've mentioned it in this thread before.
I went the route of their bushing neck die (also bought the body die, if I had it to do over, I'd just get the bushing FL die), with a .259" and .250" bushings. Initial sizing is a two step process with the two bushings that is much smoother (no having to lean on the Rock Chucker handle), much less of a donut (pretty well forms out on the first firing) and no collapsed shoulders.
If anyone is determined to use the FL die, I have on for sale on the cheap. I might get in trouble for saying that outside of the PX, but in my defense, there is no category for "dog turd" for sale.
I went the route of their bushing neck die (also bought the body die, if I had it to do over, I'd just get the bushing FL die), with a .259" and .250" bushings. Initial sizing is a two step process with the two bushings that is much smoother (no having to lean on the Rock Chucker handle), much less of a donut (pretty well forms out on the first firing) and no collapsed shoulders.
If anyone is determined to use the FL die, I have on for sale on the cheap. I might get in trouble for saying that outside of the PX, but in my defense, there is no category for "dog turd" for sale.
Regarding this dog turd. I too have the redding 22br FL die. I lost 10 pieces on my first 100 brass. Then i seemed to have solved the collapsing shoulder issue by making sure everything was lubed quite generously with hornady one shot, including inside of neck. Removed expander ball and used the mandrel to bring the neck back up after. Did 300 more brass with no issues.
