.22 br

Can you elaborate on the brass staying consistent issue? What exactly was happening with your brass?
It did not want to size back well. The shoulders would be very inconsistent, even with annealing. This was leading to poor sd, and pretty good variation past 800 yards. It still shot well at 100.

All the brass was annealed multiple times and neck turned after sizing down. I pulled that barrel at 1750 and have not made another yet.
 
It did not want to size back well. The shoulders would be very inconsistent, even with annealing. This was leading to poor sd, and pretty good variation past 800 yards. It still shot well at 100.

All the brass was annealed multiple times and neck turned after sizing down. I pulled that barrel at 1750 and have not made another yet.

Yikes. Thats not good news....
 
Is this Lapua brass?

I'm pretty much well into double digits on how many times I've reloaded my brass. I haven't had any issues. My most recent load after narrowing it down over a handful of barrels runs a low single digit SD. I'm on my 5th barrel with this same brass.
Wow - brass outliving multiple barrels - nice.
How many cases and how often are you annealing?
 
Anyone having luck with the 50-60gn bullets in the 22br chambers with the free bore for the heavies like 100-130FB?

My main goal is predator hunting with the light bullets but would be fun to pay with the heavies just trying to figure out if I can do both or if I would be better off sticking with a shorter free bore.

What would the group recommend for free bore with 53gn vmax?
 
Anyone having luck with the 50-60gn bullets in the 22br chambers with the free bore for the heavies like 100-130FB?

My main goal is predator hunting with the light bullets but would be fun to pay with the heavies just trying to figure out if I can do both or if I would be better off sticking with a shorter free bore.

What would the group recommend for free bore with 53gn vmax?
The standard reamer with a .050 freebore was pretty accurate with the few 53gr V-Max that I shot out of mine.
 
I love the 53 out of my AR, but out of my .22BR, 75ELD-M's have the edge, if distant coyotes were to be involved.
I'm not saving hides, so two holes is fine. Torn in half is fine. Smoking hole in the ground is also fine. Be aware that the 53 is also pretty rough on them.
 
I'm curious as to how one should run the 95gr SMK though, because Berger's stability calculator says it's marginal at 7-twist and only barely makes 1.5 SG at 3k and a 6.5 twist (332k RPM). That one appears to be tough, at least on paper.
I ran my 22 br and 22 bra with 7 twist. Br speed was around 2940. Bra speed was 2965. Both barrels are Hawk Hill .219 bore. Never blown a bullet. What I've gathered by research is guys that are blowing bullets are using a .218 bore or faster than a 7 twist, sometimes both.
 
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I looked at the GT but ended up leaning back to the BR because I wanted to run Lapua or Peterson brass and it seemed the simplest way to do that. I’ve heard of issues with Alpha brass, has that been addressed by now?
I started my 22 bra journey using Alpha 6 bra brass necked down and turned. Couldn't get the speed that I was getting with my regular br. Switched to Lapua brass and it all came together.
 
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Fwiw, I’ve not had stability issues with the 95 SMK at 2,850fps in a 1:7” at 1200’asl.
Everything hits the target pointy end on out to 1,000 yards, no problem.
I’m about to go back to 88’s though, as I’ve ran through all my 95’s and don’t see any out there (though I’ve not checked in the last week or so).
 
Thanks. SAC just posted their modular BR dies - ordered a .248 bushing with a .2220 mandrel. $415 but worth it, in my own opinion.

I'm not driving 10 and 25 year old Toyotas so I can save money on Lee dies 😂

I think we'll be happy. Heard lots of good things. If not there's always the PX
 
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First-time neck-sizing down any cartridge. One pass, .248 bushing w/ .222 mandrel on the way out. Is the donut too high up on the neck or looks good to go?

1638640787658.png


1638640786368.png
 
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Might’ve already been covered, but what’s everybody running for a trim-to length?
I initially sized my 6br brass down via a couple of different ways, and my cases vary from 1.540” to 1.560” at the extremes, I do separate them by length, but I’d love to trim them all back to the same length.
 
Might’ve already been covered, but what’s everybody running for a trim-to length?
I initially sized my 6br brass down via a couple of different ways, and my cases vary from 1.540” to 1.560” at the extremes, I do separate them by length, but I’d love to trim them all back to the same length.
I recently sized mine down and trimmed to 1.55”
 
So my smith has this 22BR reamer.. Only has .050" freebore and has a 0.252" neck. From what I understand from talking to others here in this thread is you want a 0.255" neck (0.254" minimum) for Lapua no turn neck??? I know one of you sent me your loaded Lapua neck and said it measured 0.253"... I like a minimum of .001 per side so that would mean a .0255" neck is what I want to run Lapua 6BR converted brass???

Freebore, I plan to only shoot the 90smk and maybe some 95smk... So after discussion here, it looks like I want .075" freebore???? I want to utilize the long neck of the BR case to maximize case capacity below the neck/shoulder junction.. What do you think?? Im gonna have Manson make me a reamer based off their below standard in house 22BR reamer, but modify the neck diameter and freebore...

Thoughts? Anything Im missing?


 
Those of you using SAC sizing die.. What bushing are you using to size your Lapua 22BR necks?? 0.247? Does 0.247" give you your final .002 neck tension? or is that sizing your necks down more than .002 neck tension and your opening back up to final neck tension with a mandrel?? I typically size .004 below loaded neck diameter with a bushing, then use my 21st Century TiN turning mandrel to open the neck back up .002 to give me a final .002 neck tension. I want to do the same with this new 22BR, but not sure which bushing I need to get me down .004 under loaded neck..
 
So my smith has this 22BR reamer.. Only has .050" freebore and has a 0.252" neck. From what I understand from talking to others here in this thread is you want a 0.255" neck (0.254" minimum) for Lapua no turn neck??? I know one of you sent me your loaded Lapua neck and said it measured 0.253"... I like a minimum of .001 per side so that would mean a .0255" neck is what I want to run Lapua 6BR converted brass???

Freebore, I plan to only shoot the 90smk and maybe some 95smk... So after discussion here, it looks like I want .075" freebore???? I want to utilize the long neck of the BR case to maximize case capacity below the neck/shoulder junction.. What do you think?? Im gonna have Manson make me a reamer based off their below standard in house 22BR reamer, but modify the neck diameter and freebore...

Thoughts? Anything Im missing?




Correct, .255 is ideal. .252 you would for sure have to turn necks on sized down lapua. The rest of the questions i can't speak to from experience.
Those of you using SAC sizing die.. What bushing are you using to size your Lapua 22BR necks?? 0.247? Does 0.247" give you your final .002 neck tension? or is that sizing your necks down more than .002 neck tension and your opening back up to final neck tension with a mandrel?? I typically size .004 below loaded neck diameter with a bushing, then use my 21st Century TiN turning mandrel to open the neck back up .002 to give me a final .002 neck tension. I want to do the same with this new 22BR, but not sure which bushing I need to get me down .004 under loaded neck..
I use a 247 bushing (redding not sac however) then run a wilson .224 mandrel through to uniform the insides. My loaded rounds are .249 for use in my .252 chamber neck.

this is my first 22br so use this info at your own discretion
 
So my smith has this 22BR reamer.. Only has .050" freebore and has a 0.252" neck. From what I understand from talking to others here in this thread is you want a 0.255" neck (0.254" minimum) for Lapua no turn neck??? I know one of you sent me your loaded Lapua neck and said it measured 0.253"... I like a minimum of .001 per side so that would mean a .0255" neck is what I want to run Lapua 6BR converted brass???

Freebore, I plan to only shoot the 90smk and maybe some 95smk... So after discussion here, it looks like I want .075" freebore???? I want to utilize the long neck of the BR case to maximize case capacity below the neck/shoulder junction.. What do you think?? Im gonna have Manson make me a reamer based off their below standard in house 22BR reamer, but modify the neck diameter and freebore...

Thoughts? Anything Im missing?



I sold my reamer that had the .252 neck and .050 freebore. It shot great with the 88 ELDM, but some of my Lapua brass must have had thicker necks as I could feel some resistance when chambering a round. I don't want to turn necks, so my next reamer will be .254-.255 and a .100-.130 freebore.
 
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I sold my reamer that had the .252 neck and .050 freebore. It shot great with the 88 ELDM, but some of my Lapua brass must have had thicker necks as I could feel some resistance when chambering a round. I don't want to turn necks, so my next reamer will be .254-.255 and a .100-.130 freebore.

Thx...so right in line with what I'm thinking


What does your lapua loaded neck measure that wasn't neck turned?? 0.253??
 
Thx...so right in line with what I'm thinking


What does your lapua loaded neck measure that wasn't neck turned?? 0.253??
I will have to measure when I get home. I have some loaded from the last match I shot in October of 2019. I found a local smith that has a .253 reamer with a .100 fb. If all of my loaded rounds are under that, I may have him ream a barrel that only has 400 rounds on it.
 
I will have to measure when I get home. I have some loaded from the last match I shot in October of 2019. I found a local smith that has a .253 reamer with a .100 fb. If all of my loaded rounds are under that, I may have him ream a barrel that only has 400 rounds on it.


Sounds good. Would love to know what lapua neck down and not turned necks measure when loaded.... @Forward543 is sending me his reamer I'm gonna chamber this barrel and see how it does...his gas a .254 neck and .160fb....see how that does with the 90smk otherwise ill have my own made
 
I think that was what the standard reamer print was in the infancy of this round. Thats the same as my first reamer. Its not very functional without tweaking it.

The .050 jump actually shot pretty well with 88s, but they were down in the case a fair bit. The .252 neck was unusable though. It didn't extract worth a damn. I bought a .2555 neck reamer from Manson and hand turned mine out. It was fine after that.

Your freebore at .75 isn't nearly enough for the 90, or especially the 95gr SMK. If you want the bullet out of the case you'll need about .130 freebore at minimum. Thats what my last two barrels have been and its treated me very well. I jump both the 88gr and the 85gr LRHT at .040. They shoot very well.

I use a .249 bushing, my mandrel bumps me to a .250, and I finish with a loaded OD of .252


Loaded round is 0.252 with neck down lapua not turned right?

Alright so how far down the neck is the boattail/bearing surface junction on a 90smk using .130fb when it's touching lands???right at the shoulder/neck junction?? Or half way down the neck??
 
Your freebore at .75 isn't nearly enough for the 90, or especially the 95gr SMK. If you want the bullet out of the case you'll need about .130 freebore at minimum.


So it looks like this 0.160fb reamer with 0.254 neck @Forward543 is sending me to use should be perfect for 90/95smk's with no turn, neck down lapua then?


Also, you sizing Lapua 6br down with the .249 bushing in one pass??? Or sizing them down with say a 0.257 or so then final size down with the .249 ???
 
Edit; I tinkered quite a bit with the 95gr SMK in a 7" twist barrel. I used a throating tool and ran rounds at .120", .150", and .180" freebore. The last one shot the 95gr the best. But I ended up not really caring for it. I was hitting pressure around 2900fps. My usuable load was at 2820fps. I like my 88gr at 3k better. And I love my 85gr Berger LRHT at 3040fps. Its a little one hole laser beam.

Interesting information and I wonder why your hitting pressure that low with the 95... Ive run 1000's of 90smk in my 220TB with a super conservative 28.6gr Varget @ 3000fps out of 26" 1:7 Bartlein. On my 3rd barrel shooting that combo.. tiny little groups, 0.5moa at 1000 the last time I tested it at 1000. The brass availability is the issue, which is why Im chambering a 22BR as its the closest to the 220TB capacity wise.. I took the 90smk up to 3100 without pressure but stuck with 3000 for long brass life and easy on the barrel....

I didnt think slinging 90's at 3000 was going to be remotely an issue. I thought it would actually be easy to sling them faster without any issues than I am now with 22BR.


Here my 220TB 90smk Varget OCW - 26" barrel




Seating depth test on the high node, zero pressure.




Low node, 28.6gr 3012fps..








300yd low node 28.6


 
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I got the 88 ELDM up to 3150 with Rl16, but brass won't last long at that velocity. The best nodes and accuracy I found with H4895, Varget, and Rl16 were right around 3000-3050.
 
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Sounds good. Would love to know what lapua neck down and not turned necks measure when loaded.... @Forward543 is sending me his reamer I'm gonna chamber this barrel and see how it does...his gas a .254 neck and .160fb....see how that does with the 90smk otherwise ill have my own made
I have the .253” BRA chamber from GAP. With turned necks, loaded rounds are measuring right at .249 (using a .249 bushing).

Unturned brass does also fit in this chamber, but with very little room to spare. Loaded rounds measure in around .252, but it definitely does not feed as smoothly as the turned necks do. Also using a .249 bushing.

You can go straight from 6BR down to .249, but it’s definitely not as smooth stepping it at .255. Use plenty of lube, especially on the interior necks… you may crush some shoulders in the process but it does work. I wanted the false shoulder for fireforming anyway so the 2-step process was the way to go for me.

Regarding velocities, it’s obviously not apples to apples, but my fireforming loads were right at 3k fps with 88ELDs over 29gr of Varget. I wouldn’t see any issues getting to the speeds you’re looking for with the 90-95s.
 
Yes, that's brand new brass, box to press, .252 loaded OD.

I confess I havent played much with the 90gr Sierra,, all my experience is with the 77gr RDF, The 85gr LRHT, the 88gr ELD, and 95gr SMK. If I recall, you can get the boat tail shoulder junction lined up at .130 freebore. To get it out of the case a bit I went to .180". I'm not sure why I had so much pressure with that bullet. I've heard of people getting better velocities. But my Varget load just wouldn't cooperate.

I think those reamer dimensions should work out very well. There's very good versatility there.

I actually used to size them down in a couple of passes till I accidently resized a 6BR brass that someone handed me at a match. I felt more resistance, but it was smooth. I pulled it out, realized it resized perfectly, and haven't stepped it down since. I actually just did 300 new pieces of Lapua about a month ago and loaded them on my 650 in one pass. I just use Hornady One Shot and honestly can't recall ever losing one.

29grs of Varget has gotten me 2990 to 3000fps the last two barrels using 88gr ELDs.

That load is money for the life of the barrel.

Excellent info..thank you! I have that reamer coming, just ordered bushings for my SAC sizer and gonna have Keystone chamber a 1:7 GM blank. They have over 50 224 1:7 GM arriving next week. Time will tell
 
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So I forgot I had a Redding Competition Micrometer 6BR Neck Sizing die on the shelf. I have all the Redding TiN bushings from 240-268.. So I grabbed 2 pieces of 4x Lapua 6BR, lubbed them up and neck sized them down with a 258 bushing then a 249 bushing.. Turned out great, no issues, sized like butter with Imperial.

The part Im confused about is why my neck measurements are so far off from you guys.... After running my 4x 6BR Lapua through the final .249 bushing...my sized neck measures .246.... I measured it 3x with both Mitutoyo calipers and my Mitutoyo micrometer... I then took 1 of the pieces of brass and ran it through my 21st Century TiN turning mandrel which brought me to .247... I left the other piece of brass sized with just the .249 bushing..

I loaded both pieces of brass with a 90smk... I get a measurement of .248 loaded neck diameter... So with the .249 only bushing, that leaves me .002 neck tension... With the mandrel, leaves me with .001 neck tension. So Ill size the rest of the 100pc box of brass down with a .247 bushing then use the mandrel to open back up .002 to give me a final neck tension of .002....

I dont get how you guys Lapua no turn loaded rounds are measuring .252-253 necks..???

Either way, Ive got dummy rounds made up right now and I got the numbers I need, no more wondering.








Right now I have the 90smk seated for max case capacity right here. A bearing surface is seated a little more than half way down the neck... Buts the base of the bullet right at the Neck/Shoulder junction..

Thoughts? Too far out?? Move the base of the bullet down to the Body/Shoulder junction and get all the bearing surface on the neck??


 
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So I forgot I had a Redding Competition Micrometer 6BR Neck Sizing die on the shelf. I have all the Redding TiN bushings from 240-268.. So I grabbed 2 pieces of 4x Lapua 6BR, lubbed them up and neck sized them down with a 258 bushing then a 249 bushing.. Turned out great, no issues, sized like butter with Imperial.

The part Im confused about is why my neck measurements are so far off from you guys.... After running my 4x 6BR Lapua through the final .249 bushing...my sized neck measures .246.... I measured it 3x with both Mitutoyo calipers and my Mitutoyo micrometer... I then took 1 of the pieces of brass and ran it through my 21st Century TiN turning mandrel which brought me to .247... I left the other piece of brass sized with just the .249 bushing..

I loaded both pieces of brass with a 90smk... I get a measurement of .280 loaded neck diameter... So with the .249 only bushing, that leaves me .002 neck tension... With the mandrel, leaves me with .001 neck tension. So Ill size the rest of the 100pc box of brass down with a .247 bushing then use the mandrel to open back up .002 to give me a final neck tension of .002....

I dont get how you guys Lapua no turn loaded rounds are measuring .252-253 necks..???

Either way, Ive got dummy rounds made up right now and I got the numbers I need, no more wondering.








Right now I have the 90smk seated for max case capacity right here. A bearing surface is seated a little more than half way down the neck... Buts the base of the bullet right at the Neck/Shoulder junction..

Thoughts? Too far out?? Move the base of the bullet down to the Body/Shoulder junction and get all the bearing surface on the neck??



I had sent you an email telling you that my loaded rounds were .250-.251 and a .254" neck reamer is plenty of clearance. Most guys measure everything with $20 calipers. I do not.
 
Update: I went 22gt over 22br. I was able to buy 500pcs 22gt headstamp ready to shoot alpha brass, and I already had 6gt bushing dies. I'm extremely happy with it. The 90 atip ladder seated -10 had a 1" of vertical 1.5" wide 6 shot group at 35.6, 35.8, 36.0gr at 500y. Tried seating depths -10 -20 -30 -40, everything was under 1" at 300y with -20 being 3 shots touching......at 300y! Easiest load development I've ever done.
 
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Update: I went 22gt over 22br. I was able to buy 500pcs 22gt headstamp ready to shoot alpha brass, and I already had 6gt bushing dies. I'm extremely happy with it. The 90 atip ladder seated -10 had a 1" of vertical 1.5" wide 6 shot group at 35.6, 35.8, 36.0gr at 500y. Tried seating depths -10 -20 -30 -40, everything was under 1" at 300y with -20 being 3 shots touching......at 300y! Easiest load development I've ever done.

This is hilarious because a buddy of mine and member on here just went through this exact scenario with 90smk and 88 eld and was the worst nightmare of loading ever. New Bartlein 1/7, alpha ocd reamer, alpha ocd brass....horrible groupings at both -10 and -20....h4350 and rl26.... I'm glad you had success....he has it being reamed into a 22cm now


What were your speeds with those charges weights??
 
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This is hilarious because a buddy of mine and member on here just went through this exact scenario with 90smk and 88 eld and was the worst nightmare of loading ever. New Bartlein 1/7, alpha ocd reamer, alpha ocd brass....horrible groupings at both -10 and -20....h4350 and rl26.... I'm glad you had success....he has it being reamed into a 22cm now


What were your speeds with those charges weights??
35.6-36.0 went 3088-3112, I loaded 100 at 35.8 and shot a match, after the match i had 230 rounds on pipe and it sped up to 3150. I still took 3rd only dropping 8 shots in the match. I'll likely retune down around 35.2gr to drop back to 3100. During the laddee I went all the way up to 37.4gr at 3240fps, the pair of 37.4 were touching at 500y but that's too fast for prs(legally anyway)

I find it odd that it doesn't like the 88 eldm for your friend. I loaded 100 rounds of 34.5gr H4350 88s seated -25 and it was shooting 3/4 moa or better 10 shot groups. I did zero brass prep other than a chamfer/debur. The barrel is a 26" 7tw hawk hill heavy varmint, I went for the 0.219 bore for lower pressure and less jacket deformity. I love this lil cartridge so much I already ordered another barrel to be 28" heavy comp contour. Running an origin action from arc mags and feeds so effortless idk if it even loaded a round.
 
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I bounced back and forth quite a bit between a 22GT and a 22 Dasher. The GT is a killer when you get it flying right, but I decided on giving the 22 Dasher a try. I want to see what a good load looks like at around 3100fps, and the Dasher will do that pretty easily.

I'm dropping off a barrel to my smith next week to cut that, a War Heavy Hawk Hill with the .219 bore, but in 7.5" twist. Its a ways out though, he has a pretty big backlog of work.
The dasher will run 3100 very easily. The dasher is a great case, I just cant get over the short neck, but they all shoot tiny, that's well known. The gt case feeds so nice with no mag mods(2 dif 6gt and a 22gt in my safe). I hope it isnt too tough to keep in tune, I'll likely bump out my bto .002 every 100 rounds.
 
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The dasher will run 3100 very easily. The dasher is a great case, I just cant get over the short neck, but they all shoot tiny, that's well known. The gt case feeds so nice with no mag mods(2 dif 6gt and a 22gt in my safe). I hope it isnt too tough to keep in tune, I'll likely bump out my bto .002 every 100 rounds.

What reamer are you using??? Alpha reamer with ocd brass???
 
My gunsmith had a jgs spec'd to alpha dimension and then coated. Personally i think the reamer is a bit tight in the neck(003 clearance to loaded) but it shoots awesome.

0.003 isn't bad....minimum I would do, 0.0015 per side but shouldn't be an issue. Why do you say it's a bit tight??? Any extraction issues?? Does a bullet slide in and out of a fired case?
 
0.003 isn't bad....minimum I would do, 0.0015 per side but shouldn't be an issue. Why do you say it's a bit tight??? Any extraction issues?? Does a bullet slide in and out of a fired case?
No issues, but these are field guns, not clean control condition bench guns. Id like 004 clearance minimum, but I'm having zero psi signs.
 
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So I necked down 2 more pieces of 4x Lapua, but I used a 0.247" bushing this time in my final step down from 0.258" instead of the 0.249". This got me to .004" under loaded neck diameter so I can use my 21st Century mandrel to open up .002", leaving me with a final 0.002" neck tension. 0.247" was perfect... left me with 0.244" sized neck, I then ran it through my mandrel which gave me 0.246" sized neck... leaving me exactly 0.002" neck tension.

I seated the 95smk on this dummy round to get it as close as I want it while not leaving it so long the 90smk is jumping a mile...but also not leaving that 95smk deep down in the case.

I think this is a happy medium, here are the numbers for the dummy rounds pictured below.

90 SMK
Base to Ogive: 1.769"
COAL: 2.378"

95 SMK
Base to Ogive: 1.831"
COAL: 2.469"

Difference in base to Ogive (where bullet is going to contact lands) between the 90smk and 95smk dummy rounds, 0.062"








Maybe shoot the 90smk till that throat grows then switch to the 95smk. Idk gonna have to play with it...

Anyone shooting the 90smk and/or 90smk?? What is your freebore and distance to lands??
 
Thx...so right in line with what I'm thinking


What does your lapua loaded neck measure that wasn't neck turned?? 0.253??
My Lapua loaded necks measure .252 to .2525, with some almost .253". I am using a Tikka action and I could feel resistance when closing the bolt on some rounds.