I would just use new brass, I think a sizing die will be moving way to much brass.
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Can someone run quickload with reloader 26 and 220 bergers, 28in barrel and 215 fed primer, air temp of 85 degrees altitude of 1 mile? Curious what it shows....
Thanks that's very interesting I loaded some 220’s at 80 grains and 208’s at 82 grains with ADG brass and shot this for groups. Didn’t have my chrono set up. Top tgt dark brown barrel and bottom target is the light barrel, same spec’s and chambered sequentially for an mrad. Testing loads to see how similar they grouped. I had a previous load using lapua brass and 82 grains that clocked in at 3130 with 208's.
Edit, chrono data for the two barrels was very consistent with 10 rounds each producing avg of (2977 sd 11.1) (2979fps sd 7.4) with 80 grains re26 with a berger 220 lrht. groups were excellent.
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Getting ready to order a reamer. What kind of FB would you use for 230-250gr bullets? I'd like to use CIP mags so if I need to stick with 230's that's fine. (Standard 300 norma mag)
Also would anyone know where to buy a reamer with the appropriate freebore? I'd like manson but didn't see the specs posted.
Also would anyone know where to buy a reamer with the appropriate freebore? I'd like manson but didn't see the specs posted.
I appreciate the reamer print!
Are the 245-250's significantly better in a dedicated ELR barrel? Or does it pigeon hole you into limited components that give marginal preformance?
Are the 245-250's significantly better in a dedicated ELR barrel? Or does it pigeon hole you into limited components that give marginal preformance?
If you don't have an 8.5 twist or faster don't bother with the heavies. If you do they are well worth it to shoot out to 2k. Beyond that I would probably want a 338 or larger. Inside a mile, I would take a 300 Norma with the 245 Berger over any other combination. But everyone has their opinion of what works and what doesn't so don't get too caught up in the noise.
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Still need to pick a barrel and a reamer. One benefit I have is altitude, a lot of it.
My plan is a 30+ barrel (probably as long as I can keep it) so that may help too. I just spoke with a guy at mile high who was saying that the 250's are THE way to go. So I guess I'll go faster than 1:9.
My plan is a 30+ barrel (probably as long as I can keep it) so that may help too. I just spoke with a guy at mile high who was saying that the 250's are THE way to go. So I guess I'll go faster than 1:9.
Depends on what that means. If you want the highest BC, the 250's are tops. If you want consistent BC the 245 Bergers are the winner by a small margin. Either way go faster than a 1-9 because if there's a chance you won't shoot the rifle at your current elevation you could run into stability issues.
In my experience 1:8 shoots anything over 200gr just fine, so I suggest that as a default twist. With regard to longer throats for 250s, if it's any consolation I've got a barrel from SAC that was specifically throated for 250s. I can seat them right up to the lands, but any attempt to seat 220 LRHTs that close fail and I have to jump them quite a bit. Still, this barrel shoots the jumping 220s exceptionally well*
* there's a chance that this is a one-off anomaly as this is by far the most accurate magnum barrel I've ever owned.
* there's a chance that this is a one-off anomaly as this is by far the most accurate magnum barrel I've ever owned.
My 300nm imp chamber has 225k freebore and with 230 Bergers seated 30k jump they're right at neck shoulder junction. Anything heavier, or non Berger, is seated well below neck. For deeicated 245/250gr bullets, I'd suggest somewhere around 275k freebore.
Scoured this page and the reloading page and didn't see anybody running 245 EOLs with N565. I know Litz ran that combo (pointed 245s) at the NF a few years ago, just wondering if anybody else has had success with the combo?
After burning a barrel up in 650 rounds with N570, I picked up a keg of N565 to try
After burning a barrel up in 650 rounds with N570, I picked up a keg of N565 to try
Man my 300n improved running shit hot with N570 lasted almost 1k. Thats worse than a 28 nosler. My new 300nmi barrel is gonna see H1000 or Retumbo only I think.
Yeah, it's definitely rough on the barrel life. Long story short I'm actually going to run two barrels with this rifle, one for matches and one for hunting. I have the 245s and I'd love to run them for hunting, and I don't necessarily need a ton of velocity to be effective out to some real respectable ranges, and then I'll run n570 for matches if I want to pick up more of that velocity.
I have a respectable amount of 215 hybrids, 225 ELDMs, and a couple hundred 245s and plenty of n565 and and 570 so I can always run the 225s or the 215s with the 565 to save barrel life as well, I just love how well those 245s cut the wind.
1:8 Bartlein
MTU @ 30"
Fat Bastard brake
Lapua virgin
Fed 215-M
IMR-8133
Hornady 250 gr A-tip
I will just say, above 85.0 gr, is where it shot.
New barrel making 2980 fps.
It almost has 100 rounds down it. And I have not checked velocity lately.
Ladder test at 700 yards.
Successful CBS at 1444 yards.
Second, third, and fourth round hits at 1760 yards.
Second, third and fourth round hits at 2180 yards.
MTU @ 30"
Fat Bastard brake
Lapua virgin
Fed 215-M
IMR-8133
Hornady 250 gr A-tip
I will just say, above 85.0 gr, is where it shot.
New barrel making 2980 fps.
It almost has 100 rounds down it. And I have not checked velocity lately.
Ladder test at 700 yards.
Successful CBS at 1444 yards.
Second, third, and fourth round hits at 1760 yards.
Second, third and fourth round hits at 2180 yards.
N565 isn't going to save your throat much compared to N570. You need to reduce the heat, so use N170 or N165. You'll lose 100-150fps but get potentially longer barrel life because it's single-based and generates less heat at the throat.
Here's what QL says about that combo.
Personally, I think N565 is too fast for the heavies in .300NM. It's better suited for the 200-220gr range of bullets.
Thank you for running the quick load! I really want to get the software and learn to use it. I really like data, and especially looking at case fill percentages for certain loads
I definitely agree that they're both nitro powders and I may not get a ton more life, but even a few hundred rounds would be nice. I have been seeing Retumbo suddenly showing up, and if I hadn't just spent a ton of $ on 570 and 565 I'd be buying some of it too.
I do have 215s I could run the 565 with, I just love the wind benefit of the 245s.
N570 is just such a perfectly optimized powder for the .300NM, in most cases I’d just say use it and treat barrels as consumables. With this and long .338LM Improved barrels I tend now to order barrels as pairs. Yeah, it hurts $$$ but then I rarely feel bad burning a barrel out with high performance loads.
All that being said, I recently got a new .300NM barrel from SAC that is so damned consistent and tolerant that it’s easily the best magnum barrel I’ve owned so far. And for that reason, I actually dialed the 250 A-Tips loads back with N170, hoping to extend the life of this seemingly unicorn barrel.
All that being said, I recently got a new .300NM barrel from SAC that is so damned consistent and tolerant that it’s easily the best magnum barrel I’ve owned so far. And for that reason, I actually dialed the 250 A-Tips loads back with N170, hoping to extend the life of this seemingly unicorn barrel.
What would you guys do here?
I have a 9" twist 26" standard 300nm with a solid 230 hybrid/h1000/ 2940fps load that tracks great with my kestrel past 2000 yards. I'm down to my last 150 230s and I still have 16lbs of h1000. Also the barrel is only at 236 rounds total.
I'm trying to decide between the new 220s, staying with 230s, or going up to 245s. Years ago I did test 250 A-tips up to the mid 2900s with h1000 just to see what speed I could get.
I don't always shoot super far and the rifle is more similar to a sako trg than a purpose built elr gun. I'm thinking I might just stick with 230s because it just plain works, but the 220s are probably a little better for h1000 and a little faster with the same bc.
I have a 9" twist 26" standard 300nm with a solid 230 hybrid/h1000/ 2940fps load that tracks great with my kestrel past 2000 yards. I'm down to my last 150 230s and I still have 16lbs of h1000. Also the barrel is only at 236 rounds total.
I'm trying to decide between the new 220s, staying with 230s, or going up to 245s. Years ago I did test 250 A-tips up to the mid 2900s with h1000 just to see what speed I could get.
I don't always shoot super far and the rifle is more similar to a sako trg than a purpose built elr gun. I'm thinking I might just stick with 230s because it just plain works, but the 220s are probably a little better for h1000 and a little faster with the same bc.
Depending on your altitude, 245s in the 9 isnt a sure recipe for success. I know they satabilised in my 9tw, 2950fps at 2k da in winter, summer da is usually 5-8k depending on where I'm shooting here in MT.
Shoot the same rd. But, not same powder. Use Ramshot Magnum at 3000 fps. Great accuracy. Kinda in the same boat as you. Got H1000 now, and Retumbo. So will see how it shoots now with those powders. If I don't like fps. Will stick with Ram Mag. Just for velocity. Use other for 338 LM. Really if you're happy with what you got. I would stick with it.
Most everywhere I shoot here in UT is at least 4000' altitude. Even at 0 degrees F, It would be about 1000 DA.
I may have some 230s if you wanna send me the 245s you speak of lol!
I'm in a similar place right now, down to 175 245s but have regular access to 215s, 220s, 225 ELDMs, 230 and 250 a tips. Really, everything but 245s it seems.
Yup you'll be good. My 26" barrel shot em well 2940-2960, warmer load from the improved chamber.
I haven't been able to find much of anything berger-wise. I'm just using this time waiting to decide my next move. Right now I noticed 220s everywhere. I emailed berger to ask if the 220 is replacing the 230 and they told me no. They said 230s should hit shelves in september.
I'll probably switch to 215s if I can get them to shoot, because I've got 500 of them, and hope to see 245s soonish. I'm also waiting on Lapua brass to come available again, my current brass is on its 6th firing and who knows how many firings it's got left in it.
220's ARE replacing the 230's from a performance perspective. Yes they will continue to make the 230s but they were not popular for a reason and 215's with their lower BC was/is.........That is called a Hint.
The 220 has bassicaly the same bc as the 230 but in a better form factor bullet. The 245 is still king but if you can get 220's, i would be stocking up on them before 230s or even 215s. They are a superior bullet to both.
The 220 has bassicaly the same bc as the 230 but in a better form factor bullet. The 245 is still king but if you can get 220's, i would be stocking up on them before 230s or even 215s. They are a superior bullet to both.
I've found the newer lrht to be a lil more picky than the regular hybrids and eol line for seating depth tunes. They are a good bullet. I do not like shooting factory pointed bullets at game either, that's where the 215/230 shine. Also, the recoil difference between a 230 at 3080 and a 245 at 2950, the 245 had a lot more perceived recoil, noticbaly more than my 338 rum with 300s at 2820fps. Rifle weights are similar, but the norma imp was just more punchy, and run slower lighter push. My and a few friends observations.
Tough to compare bullet weights in 2 different rifles, weight, muzzle brake etc. All things being equal with the rifles a 300 gr at 2820 should hit your shoulder harder than a 245 at 2950.
I was under the impression that the 230 ended up being more predictable through transonic vs the 215? The debate has been raging for a long time though. I talked to Frank in his class about it a couple years ago and he was convinced that the 230 hybrid was the most consistent 30cal bullet next to solids for elr.
However, I would imagine Bryan Litz applied the same strategies when developing the 220 and 245. The things older bullets always have over the new ones is track record and load data.
However, I would imagine Bryan Litz applied the same strategies when developing the 220 and 245. The things older bullets always have over the new ones is track record and load data.
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Sorry to ask, would you be able to run a QL for berger 220lrht using VV n565, 28" 8.5 twist using Fed 210m (LRP). I couldn't get 215m in canada
. When I ask berger they don't have 565 on their data and as discussed before, VVs data is way off.My own 220 LRHT N565 load from a couple years ago uses 87gr but is kind of hot. Here's what QL says....
I tried some Staball HD today and it shot pretty good.
My gun is a 300 Norma Improved so keep that in mind. I couldn’t find any data but since it’s burn rate is close to Retumbo that’s where I started.
30 in Bartlein 8 twist 5r
230 gr Atip
CCI 250
Peterson brass
83 gr. No data
84 gr. 2859 fps
84.5. 2948
85. 2959
85.5. 2958
86. 2987
86.5. 3052
87. 3023
87.5. 3025
88. 2960 ?
88.5. 3053
89. 3081
There was no pressure signs or stiff bolt with any of these loads. This was only 3 shot groups.
My gun is a 300 Norma Improved so keep that in mind. I couldn’t find any data but since it’s burn rate is close to Retumbo that’s where I started.
30 in Bartlein 8 twist 5r
230 gr Atip
CCI 250
Peterson brass
83 gr. No data
84 gr. 2859 fps
84.5. 2948
85. 2959
85.5. 2958
86. 2987
86.5. 3052
87. 3023
87.5. 3025
88. 2960 ?
88.5. 3053
89. 3081
There was no pressure signs or stiff bolt with any of these loads. This was only 3 shot groups.
Attachments
I'd repeat 84.8-85.7gr in 0.3 steps with a magnum primer, maybe work on seating depth a lil. 2950 and 3050 are pretty well known speeds for great accuracy in the Norma case with 230s. My 300nmi with 230 Bergers it was 2980 3070 that it performed well but with N570 and it makes sense the nodes a bit faster with a slower burning powder. In all honesty, 2950 VS 3050 is minimal wind difference with that high bc bullet. Drops are drops, easy to figure out, that fn wind tho.........great equalizer!
Some muzzle velocity testing with N570 and the Berger 220 LRHT.
30" Bartlein (1.25 straight)
1 in 8 tw
Fed 215m
Lapua Brass
Whidden FL sizing die with SAC .333 bushing
.003 neck tension set via mandrel
Temp 70
I started when I had 150 rounds on the barrel. I stopped well short of the published max for a 26" barrel. No pressure signs.
83.0 2969
83.3 2991
83.6 2990
83.9 3004
84.2 2998
84.5 2998
84.8 3036
85.1 3025
85.4 3025
85.7 3044
86.0 3047
86.3 3072
86.6 3085
86.9 3090
87.2 3086
87.5 3107
87.8 3118
88.1 3121
88.4 3119
88.7 3132
89.0 3163
89.3 3162
89.6 3158
89.9 3200
As I went through the rest of my load development, my barrel sped up just a bit. I settled on 85.3 .090 off the lands, which settled in at 3050 with 225 rounds on the barrel. Took 15 rounds to the range to verify zero and true my kestrel. Group was shot at 1000 yards.
Final load
Lapua Brass
Beger 220LRHT
85.3 of N570
Fed 215M
.090 off the lands
MV 3050
SD 1.68
ES 3.25
Sample size 15
30" Bartlein (1.25 straight)
1 in 8 tw
Fed 215m
Lapua Brass
Whidden FL sizing die with SAC .333 bushing
.003 neck tension set via mandrel
Temp 70
I started when I had 150 rounds on the barrel. I stopped well short of the published max for a 26" barrel. No pressure signs.
83.0 2969
83.3 2991
83.6 2990
83.9 3004
84.2 2998
84.5 2998
84.8 3036
85.1 3025
85.4 3025
85.7 3044
86.0 3047
86.3 3072
86.6 3085
86.9 3090
87.2 3086
87.5 3107
87.8 3118
88.1 3121
88.4 3119
88.7 3132
89.0 3163
89.3 3162
89.6 3158
89.9 3200
As I went through the rest of my load development, my barrel sped up just a bit. I settled on 85.3 .090 off the lands, which settled in at 3050 with 225 rounds on the barrel. Took 15 rounds to the range to verify zero and true my kestrel. Group was shot at 1000 yards.
Final load
Lapua Brass
Beger 220LRHT
85.3 of N570
Fed 215M
.090 off the lands
MV 3050
SD 1.68
ES 3.25
Sample size 15
Attachments
I just got 100 pieces of 300 NM brass, and want to fireform brass / break in this barrel. I bought some H1000 but would like to hold off on using that until I get to load development. I have a couple questions...
Is 100 rounds of 300 NM enough to let the throat settle in before starting to develop loads?
I have a bit of 7827 SSC and older 208 Amax's I'd like to use up for this. Any idea on a good starting load for this combo?
Please let me know if you would proceed differently, but I don't want to break into my 225 ELDM's and H1000 before I have to. Thanks in advance.
Is 100 rounds of 300 NM enough to let the throat settle in before starting to develop loads?
I have a bit of 7827 SSC and older 208 Amax's I'd like to use up for this. Any idea on a good starting load for this combo?
Please let me know if you would proceed differently, but I don't want to break into my 225 ELDM's and H1000 before I have to. Thanks in advance.
100 rounds should be plenty to break in that big a cartridge. 75-77gr 7827SSC with the 208 should do the trick, be around 2800-2850fps I'd think.
Do you recall what kinds of speeds you were getting when you ran 87gr of N565? I shot 86gr and I was getting 3080fps which seems too fast.
They must have just done a big run of it, because I scored some from powder valley Monday. Definitely keep eyes out for more if you're in need, seems to be filtering in.
To the N570 users, what are you guys using for funnels? Currently run a Area 419 funnel kit and it bridges really badly. Thinking of going with a SAC Modular Funnel kit since I have the headspace gauge and inserts already for them.
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Reloading Equipment
300 Norma Lapua Brass, 230 Berger LRHT
