300 Norma Mag

#651
Lower accuracy node with the 225 and 230 Hornady pills in the 82.5 range with Retumbo. Another accuracy node at 85-86 with retumbo. Seated at the lands for everything. Seems to be the same in almost all the Norma barrels me and a few guys I shoot with have found. Maybe 8 different norma barrels all kinda follow what I mentioned above. Peterson brass. 215m's.
 
#653
I am having a bit of a rough time picking a powder. I've got H-Retumbo, IMR-8133, and H-50 BMG

30" Bartlein 1:8
Lapua virgin brass
Fed 215-M
250 gr A-tips

I'm in better supply shape with the H-50BMG, but what I've read here, it might not make the speed. IMR-8133 was where I was leaning.

Input would be appreciated.
 
#655
Landdwnundr said:
AI AX - 27" barrel, 1-9
230gr A-tip
Lapua case
Fed #215M
H1000 84.0gr
Jump 0.020"
CBTO 2.883"


Avg: 2937fps
SD: 3.0
ES: 6.8
68F, 978.2mbar, 36% RH
Click to expand...
Cool. Thanks! I'm also using a AXMC. I'm now at 81gr N565 (significant below max) with .04" jump (which seems a bit much) but getting significant cratering but not heavy bolt or other pressure signs. How is this for you?
 
#656
tyfoon said:
Cool. Thanks! I'm also using a AXMC. I'm now at 81gr N565 (significant below max) with .04" jump (which seems a bit much) but getting significant cratering but not heavy bolt or other pressure signs. How is this for you?
Click to expand...
No cratering or any other pressure signs out to 85.0gr H1000 (2974fps, SD 7.7) although I likely won't run another ladder test until my can gets out of prison some time in the summer with any luck.
 
#657
I'm curious what barrel lengths are you guys using? Mine is 28" and I'm starting to think 22-24" is plenty for this cartridge in the 200-220gr bullet weight range.
 
#659
27" here. 3010 with 230 atips at 85.5 retumbo.

Might as well shoot a win mag or PRC if you want to use shorter barrel in that 22" range. And use RL26 to keep the speed. My 22" prc with RL26 shot the 215s 100 fps faster then the 20" Norma.
 
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#660
After changing to VV N570 & Berger 230 Hybrid (from VV N565 & Hornady 225 ELDM) I'm now getting a consistent group size of between .25-.5 MOA at 100Meters with low SD. Also had to get my bold bushed. The large firing pin was piercing primers even at low pressures.

28" inch Bartlein 1:8 on AI AXMC
85.7GR VV N570
Lapua case
CCI 250
909 m/s with SD of 1 = 2982 Ft/s with SD of 3.3
Jump 0.02"
CBTO 72.20mm/2.8425"
 
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#661
Anyone have Ramshot LRT data to share? Ramshot's factory data (http://blog.westernpowders.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Ramshot-LRT-Data.pdf) seems really conservative if I'm not going crazy. With the Hornady 225 ELD-M and 0.020" jump/3.577" COL (fits my AI) I am getting a max load of 96.6gr in QuickLoad which is like 8gr higher than Ramshot's listed max with 220-230gr bullets. Their factory max velocities are also 2850-2930fps which seems low compared to what many seem to achieve with this cartridge (though they had a 26" test barrel). Their COLs are also low - 3.406" for a 230gr Berger hybrid? SAAMI minimum COL is 3.556". Based on QuickLoad's data I was going to run a Satterlee "ladder" from 94-96.6gr of LRT but now I'm second-guessing that after seeing their factory data. I'm very curious what other folks are using for charge weight with Ramshot LRT.

PS - Ramshot LRT and Accurate LRT are the same thing according to the QuickLoad team so that's what I'm using in the software.
 
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#663
I bought it because Ramshot specifically advertises it as suitable for .338LM and 30 Nosler which are in roughly similar cartridge categories, publishes 300NM load data for it, and because I could snag 2lb of it easily. The Western Powders manual says LRT is their best powder for 300NM. Also a lot of guys here said it had similar burn rate to Retumbo which is used for 300 Norma. I would have preferred H1000 but as you said, good luck finding any.
 
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#664
LRT is pretty good for .338LM...pushing 300gr bullets. But it’s still pretty slow and you'll be hard pressed to get velocities you’d want out of that cartridge. I use it because it’s cheap, I have a ton of brass and bullets, and i don’t need to hot rod it the way I do with .338LM Improved.

Try running the numbers on .300NM with LRT pushing heavier 250s perhaps?

Bottom line: you can make good loads for it with .300NM, you won’t get any pressure signs, and they’ll likely be pretty consistent and stable, but probably a good 100-150fps slower than say N570
 
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#665
Conqueror said:
I bought it because Ramshot specifically advertises it as suitable for .338LM and 30 Nosler which are in roughly similar cartridge categories, publishes 300NM load data for it, and because I could snag 2lb of it easily. The Western Powders manual says LRT is their best powder for 300NM. Also a lot of guys here said it had similar burn rate to Retumbo which is used for 300 Norma. I would have preferred H1000 but as you said, good luck finding any.
Click to expand...
I'm in the same boat as you. Have had my eyes out for retumbo, h1000, and n570 for a long while now. Ended up snagging some ramshot lrt because it was actually available and has some data out there to go by. Read on a different forum that the 300 norma guys love it. Time will tell
 
#666
I have limited experience with N570 and the 300 Norma. From what I have seen so far with 87grs and 250 A tips at 2950 fps out of a 26" barrel and no pressure signs, I can't imagine there is a better powder avaliable.

Lots of load testing with that combination to come in the next couple months but love what I'm seeing so far.
 
#667
Yeah N570 is well-known for this cartridge but I have not successfully found any for sale in 6mo.

Dogtown said:
LRT is pretty good for .338LM...pushing 300gr bullets. But it’s still pretty slow and you'll be hard pressed to get velocities you’d want out of that cartridge. I use it because it’s cheap, I have a ton of brass and bullets, and i don’t need to hot rod it the way I do with .338LM Improved.

Try running the numbers on .300NM with LRT pushing heavier 250s perhaps?

Bottom line: you can make good loads for it with .300NM, you won’t get any pressure signs, and they’ll likely be pretty consistent and stable, but probably a good 100-150fps slower than say N570
Click to expand...

I try not to run QuickLoad on bullets for which I haven't measured CBTO on my rifle since the seating depth can obviously significantly affect the pressure calculations. Garbage in, garbage out, as they say. If nobody has proven LRT load data to share then I guess I will just have to start significantly lower and just watch for pressure signs since QuickLoad says I can go 8gr over book max which is obviously pretty aggressive.
 
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#668
Followup question: what kind of velocities are you guys getting with the 225 ELD-M?

As planned I ran a ladder at lower charges yesterday and got velocities up to 2833fps with 90gr of Ramshot LRT and 0.020" of jump. No pressure signs at all on the virgin Lapua brass or primers. It appears that I was getting ~50fps velocity increase per grain of powder with a possible low node in the 86-87gr region. Will run another ladder up to 97gr next time but knowing what a "good goal" speed is with the 225s would help. I've seen a few posts in the 3000-3100fps range.
 
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#669
Conqueror said:
Followup question: what kind of velocities are you guys getting with the 225 ELD-M?

As planned I ran a ladder at lower charges yesterday and got velocities up to 2833fps with 90gr of Ramshot LRT and 0.020" of jump. No pressure signs at all on the virgin Lapua brass or primers. It appears that I was getting ~50fps velocity increase per grain of powder with a possible low node in the 86-87gr region. Will run another ladder up to 97gr next time but knowing what a "good goal" speed is with the 225s would help. I've seen a few posts in the 3000-3100fps range.
Click to expand...
I was getting around 3050 fps when I used them about 3 years ago in Alabama.
86.8 gr H1000
28 in K&P 1in9 twist
300 NORMA MAGNUM 30* IMPROVED SHOULDER (.341 NECK / .235 FREEBORE)

I've never used LRT before but I do know someone who has great luck using it in a 338 Lapua. I would like to try it as soon as I find some.
 
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#670
1/8 26 inch AI barrel (25 shots on it)
230 ATIP - 3.700 COAL
Lapua Case

N570
86-2900
87-2950
88-2987
89-3075
90-3070

RL33
91-2942
92-2954
93-2993
94-3026
95-3075

No pressure signs with either powder.

Case is pretty much full @ 90 N570 and @95 RL 33.
 
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#674
Shoots 700's said:
Any accuracy info?
Click to expand...
I was only looking to see where pressure would start with each powder. N570 target with the 5 diff charges attached. RL 33 was about the same.
 

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#677
Anybody get the new Hornady book? Actually has 300 Norma load data. Even has LRT data. Lyman has a Long Range Reloading book with 300 Norma data. That’s surprising considering Hornady has said a few times that they had no intention of publishing 300 Norma.
 
#678
Rebelirons said:
Anybody get the new Hornady book? Actually has 300 Norma load data. Even has LRT data. Lyman has a Long Range Reloading book with 300 Norma data. That’s surprising considering Hornady has said a few times that they had no intention of publishing 300 Norma.
Click to expand...
Any load data for N570 and the 250 A tip?

I may have to buy it either way though.
 
#679
Rebelirons said:
Anybody get the new Hornady book? Actually has 300 Norma load data. Even has LRT data. Lyman has a Long Range Reloading book with 300 Norma data. That’s surprising considering Hornady has said a few times that they had no intention of publishing 300 Norma.
Click to expand...

I’ve got their latest online manual and there is no data for 300 Norma Magnum
 
#681
Rebelirons said:
Anybody get the new Hornady book? Actually has 300 Norma load data. Even has LRT data. Lyman has a Long Range Reloading book with 300 Norma data. That’s surprising considering Hornady has said a few times that they had no intention of publishing 300 Norma.
Click to expand...
I'd be surprised if they put any data out for the Norma while they are still pimping their PRC round.

Maybe they are trying to make up the lost sales revenue with reloading books since the Lapua PRC cases came out.

I'd just purchase the QL software and work up.
 
#684
Rebelirons said:
Are any of the 4 new Lapua cases even in the wild yet? I’ve been waiting for the 300 win mag for years, what’s a few months more?
Click to expand...
Not sure about the other 3, but the 300 PRC has been shipping for the last two weeks.

www.snipershide.com

300 PRC update

The necks were EXTREMELY tight. I mandreled with a carbide mandrel and they were tough to deal with. When I seated the bullets....they were 120in/lbs to shove the bullet in....when normally I strive for 20in/lbs. Basically...I thought I was going to break my arbor press pushing them in...
www.snipershide.com www.snipershide.com
 
#685
Rebelirons said:
Here ya go
Click to expand...

Thanks for posting that I'll pick up the book.

I'm definitely over their data. Just hit 85 rds on the barrel and still playing with loads. Was at 87 grs of N570 with the 250 gr no pressure signs and was averaging 2953 fps. Cleaned the barrel and it sped up to an average of 3015 fps still no pressure but groups opened up so I'm backing down and re-testing.
 
#686
nick338 said:
Thanks for posting that I'll pick up the book.

I'm definitely over their data. Just hit 85 rds on the barrel and still playing with loads. Was at 87 grs of N570 with the 250 gr no pressure signs and was averaging 2953 fps. Cleaned the barrel and it sped up to an average of 3015 fps still no pressure but groups opened up so I'm backing down and re-testing.
Click to expand...
From Hornady -

Rob, This data was definitely all done in a pressure barrel and shot. However we did use the SAAMI spec. standards and not the CIP spec’s. The (MAP) per SAAMI on this cartridge is 61,000 psi. Thanks.

The CIP (MAP) is 63,817 psi.
 
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#688
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#697
nick338 said:
Thanks for posting. Nice to see someone else shooting the Norma with 250 A Tips.
Click to expand...

They seem to work okay with the N570. My overall SD was 10.07 for the 35 shots, but you can see that the SD for the 5 shot strings was between 5 and 15. Looking to smooth that out a hit. The error was always on the high side. I'm guessing tight neck tension. Those cases had been fired 3X without annealing. I annealed cases tonight and will try again next weekend.
 

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