300 Norma Mag

[MOUNTIC]

Lower accuracy node with the 225 and 230 Hornady pills in the 82.5 range with Retumbo. Another accuracy node at 85-86 with retumbo. Seated at the lands for everything. Seems to be the same in almost all the Norma barrels me and a few guys I shoot with have found. Maybe 8 different norma barrels all kinda follow what I mentioned above. Peterson brass. 215m's.

 

[Shawnsts]

Hornady 225 eld-m work well for me @ .010 & .020 off. I am getting .3 moa groups with both.

 

[Garvey]

I am having a bit of a rough time picking a powder. I've got H-Retumbo, IMR-8133, and H-50 BMG

30" Bartlein 1:8
Lapua virgin brass
Fed 215-M
250 gr A-tips

I'm in better supply shape with the H-50BMG, but what I've read here, it might not make the speed. IMR-8133 was where I was leaning.

Input would be appreciated.

 

[Landdwnundr]

Hi, would you guys be willing to share your bullet jump & bullet combination you use ? I'm struggling with my group size even with very low SD.

AI AX - 27" barrel, 1-9
230gr A-tip
Lapua case
Fed #215M
H1000 84.0gr
Jump 0.020"
CBTO 2.883"


Avg: 2937fps
SD: 3.0
ES: 6.8
68F, 978.2mbar, 36% RH

 

[tyfoon]

AI AX - 27" barrel, 1-9
230gr A-tip
Lapua case
Fed #215M
H1000 84.0gr
Jump 0.020"
CBTO 2.883"


Avg: 2937fps
SD: 3.0
ES: 6.8
68F, 978.2mbar, 36% RH

Cool. Thanks! I'm also using a AXMC. I'm now at 81gr N565 (significant below max) with .04" jump (which seems a bit much) but getting significant cratering but not heavy bolt or other pressure signs. How is this for you?

 

[Landdwnundr]

Cool. Thanks! I'm also using a AXMC. I'm now at 81gr N565 (significant below max) with .04" jump (which seems a bit much) but getting significant cratering but not heavy bolt or other pressure signs. How is this for you?

No cratering or any other pressure signs out to 85.0gr H1000 (2974fps, SD 7.7) although I likely won't run another ladder test until my can gets out of prison some time in the summer with any luck.

 

[Dogtown]

I'm curious what barrel lengths are you guys using? Mine is 28" and I'm starting to think 22-24" is plenty for this cartridge in the 200-220gr bullet weight range.

 

[Runnineh]

I'm curious what barrel lengths are you guys using? Mine is 28" and I'm starting to think 22-24" is plenty for this cartridge in the 200-220gr bullet weight range.

I'm using a 27" and getting 3040 with 230 smk's over 91.5 rl33.

 

[MOUNTIC]

27" here. 3010 with 230 atips at 85.5 retumbo.

Might as well shoot a win mag or PRC if you want to use shorter barrel in that 22" range. And use RL26 to keep the speed. My 22" prc with RL26 shot the 215s 100 fps faster then the 20" Norma.

 

[tyfoon]

After changing to VV N570 & Berger 230 Hybrid (from VV N565 & Hornady 225 ELDM) I'm now getting a consistent group size of between .25-.5 MOA at 100Meters with low SD. Also had to get my bold bushed. The large firing pin was piercing primers even at low pressures.

28" inch Bartlein 1:8 on AI AXMC
85.7GR VV N570
Lapua case
CCI 250
909 m/s with SD of 1 = 2982 Ft/s with SD of 3.3
Jump 0.02"
CBTO 72.20mm/2.8425"

 

[Conqueror]

Anyone have Ramshot LRT data to share? Ramshot's factory data (http://blog.westernpowders.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Ramshot-LRT-Data.pdf) seems really conservative if I'm not going crazy. With the Hornady 225 ELD-M and 0.020" jump/3.577" COL (fits my AI) I am getting a max load of 96.6gr in QuickLoad which is like 8gr higher than Ramshot's listed max with 220-230gr bullets. Their factory max velocities are also 2850-2930fps which seems low compared to what many seem to achieve with this cartridge (though they had a 26" test barrel). Their COLs are also low - 3.406" for a 230gr Berger hybrid? SAAMI minimum COL is 3.556". Based on QuickLoad's data I was going to run a Satterlee "ladder" from 94-96.6gr of LRT but now I'm second-guessing that after seeing their factory data. I'm very curious what other folks are using for charge weight with Ramshot LRT.

PS - Ramshot LRT and Accurate LRT are the same thing according to the QuickLoad team so that's what I'm using in the software.

 

[Dogtown]

I can’t help you with data, but I can suggest that LRT is slower than RL33 and N570, so not ideal for .300NM. Of course with powder availability these days...

 

[Conqueror]

I bought it because Ramshot specifically advertises it as suitable for .338LM and 30 Nosler which are in roughly similar cartridge categories, publishes 300NM load data for it, and because I could snag 2lb of it easily. The Western Powders manual says LRT is their best powder for 300NM. Also a lot of guys here said it had similar burn rate to Retumbo which is used for 300 Norma. I would have preferred H1000 but as you said, good luck finding any.

 

[Dogtown]

LRT is pretty good for .338LM...pushing 300gr bullets. But it’s still pretty slow and you'll be hard pressed to get velocities you’d want out of that cartridge. I use it because it’s cheap, I have a ton of brass and bullets, and i don’t need to hot rod it the way I do with .338LM Improved.

Try running the numbers on .300NM with LRT pushing heavier 250s perhaps?

Bottom line: you can make good loads for it with .300NM, you won’t get any pressure signs, and they’ll likely be pretty consistent and stable, but probably a good 100-150fps slower than say N570

 

[Salad_shooter]

I bought it because Ramshot specifically advertises it as suitable for .338LM and 30 Nosler which are in roughly similar cartridge categories, publishes 300NM load data for it, and because I could snag 2lb of it easily. The Western Powders manual says LRT is their best powder for 300NM. Also a lot of guys here said it had similar burn rate to Retumbo which is used for 300 Norma. I would have preferred H1000 but as you said, good luck finding any.

I'm in the same boat as you. Have had my eyes out for retumbo, h1000, and n570 for a long while now. Ended up snagging some ramshot lrt because it was actually available and has some data out there to go by. Read on a different forum that the 300 norma guys love it. Time will tell

 

[nick338]

I have limited experience with N570 and the 300 Norma. From what I have seen so far with 87grs and 250 A tips at 2950 fps out of a 26" barrel and no pressure signs, I can't imagine there is a better powder avaliable.

Lots of load testing with that combination to come in the next couple months but love what I'm seeing so far.

 

[Conqueror]

Yeah N570 is well-known for this cartridge but I have not successfully found any for sale in 6mo.

LRT is pretty good for .338LM...pushing 300gr bullets. But it’s still pretty slow and you'll be hard pressed to get velocities you’d want out of that cartridge. I use it because it’s cheap, I have a ton of brass and bullets, and i don’t need to hot rod it the way I do with .338LM Improved.

Try running the numbers on .300NM with LRT pushing heavier 250s perhaps?

Bottom line: you can make good loads for it with .300NM, you won’t get any pressure signs, and they’ll likely be pretty consistent and stable, but probably a good 100-150fps slower than say N570

I try not to run QuickLoad on bullets for which I haven't measured CBTO on my rifle since the seating depth can obviously significantly affect the pressure calculations. Garbage in, garbage out, as they say. If nobody has proven LRT load data to share then I guess I will just have to start significantly lower and just watch for pressure signs since QuickLoad says I can go 8gr over book max which is obviously pretty aggressive.

 

[Conqueror]

Followup question: what kind of velocities are you guys getting with the 225 ELD-M?

As planned I ran a ladder at lower charges yesterday and got velocities up to 2833fps with 90gr of Ramshot LRT and 0.020" of jump. No pressure signs at all on the virgin Lapua brass or primers. It appears that I was getting ~50fps velocity increase per grain of powder with a possible low node in the 86-87gr region. Will run another ladder up to 97gr next time but knowing what a "good goal" speed is with the 225s would help. I've seen a few posts in the 3000-3100fps range.

 

[TankFrank]

Followup question: what kind of velocities are you guys getting with the 225 ELD-M?

As planned I ran a ladder at lower charges yesterday and got velocities up to 2833fps with 90gr of Ramshot LRT and 0.020" of jump. No pressure signs at all on the virgin Lapua brass or primers. It appears that I was getting ~50fps velocity increase per grain of powder with a possible low node in the 86-87gr region. Will run another ladder up to 97gr next time but knowing what a "good goal" speed is with the 225s would help. I've seen a few posts in the 3000-3100fps range.

I was getting around 3050 fps when I used them about 3 years ago in Alabama.
86.8 gr H1000
28 in K&P 1in9 twist
300 NORMA MAGNUM 30* IMPROVED SHOULDER (.341 NECK / .235 FREEBORE)

I've never used LRT before but I do know someone who has great luck using it in a 338 Lapua. I would like to try it as soon as I find some.

 

[robb_va]

1/8 26 inch AI barrel (25 shots on it)
230 ATIP - 3.700 COAL
Lapua Case

N570
86-2900
87-2950
88-2987
89-3075
90-3070

RL33
91-2942
92-2954
93-2993
94-3026
95-3075

No pressure signs with either powder.

Case is pretty much full @ 90 N570 and @95 RL 33.

 

[Birddog6424]

I'm using a 27" and getting 3040 with 230 smk's over 91.5 rl33.

I'm really close to this.

I'm running a 26" Proof CF, and a 230gr Hybrid over 92.6grs RE33. Im getting 3050fps.

 

[Reload10]

Whats the velocity node on 215gr hybrids over n570?

 

[Shoots 700's]

1/8 26 inch AI barrel (25 shots on it)
230 ATIP - 3.700 COAL
Lapua Case

N570
86-2900
87-2950
88-2987
89-3075
90-3070

RL33
91-2942
92-2954
93-2993
94-3026
95-3075

No pressure signs with either powder.

Case is pretty much full @ 90 N570 and @95 RL 33.

Any accuracy info?

 

[robb_va]

Any accuracy info?

I was only looking to see where pressure would start with each powder. N570 target with the 5 diff charges attached. RL 33 was about the same.

 

[Runnineh]

I'm really close to this.

I'm running a 26" Proof CF, and a 230gr Hybrid over 92.6grs RE33. Im getting 3050fps.

I was using hybrids using just about the same, but the smk's were just as precise and cheaper to buy. Both great bullets.

 

[robb_va]

Any accuracy info?

Berger 220 LRHT.

89.5 N570 Average FPS was 3149.
94.0 RL33 Average FPS was 3154.

Both loads were accurate and shot well.

 

[Rebelirons]

Anybody get the new Hornady book? Actually has 300 Norma load data. Even has LRT data. Lyman has a Long Range Reloading book with 300 Norma data. That’s surprising considering Hornady has said a few times that they had no intention of publishing 300 Norma.

 

[nick338]

Anybody get the new Hornady book? Actually has 300 Norma load data. Even has LRT data. Lyman has a Long Range Reloading book with 300 Norma data. That’s surprising considering Hornady has said a few times that they had no intention of publishing 300 Norma.

Any load data for N570 and the 250 A tip?

I may have to buy it either way though.

 

[Long Range 338]

Anybody get the new Hornady book? Actually has 300 Norma load data. Even has LRT data. Lyman has a Long Range Reloading book with 300 Norma data. That’s surprising considering Hornady has said a few times that they had no intention of publishing 300 Norma.

I’ve got their latest online manual and there is no data for 300 Norma Magnum

 

[Rebelirons]

It’s in the new 11th edition hard back.

 

[robb_va]

Anybody get the new Hornady book? Actually has 300 Norma load data. Even has LRT data. Lyman has a Long Range Reloading book with 300 Norma data. That’s surprising considering Hornady has said a few times that they had no intention of publishing 300 Norma.

I'd be surprised if they put any data out for the Norma while they are still pimping their PRC round.

Maybe they are trying to make up the lost sales revenue with reloading books since the Lapua PRC cases came out.

I'd just purchase the QL software and work up.

 

[Rebelirons]

Here ya go

 

[Rebelirons]

Are any of the 4 new Lapua cases even in the wild yet? I’ve been waiting for the 300 win mag for years, what’s a few months more?

 

[robb_va]

Are any of the 4 new Lapua cases even in the wild yet? I’ve been waiting for the 300 win mag for years, what’s a few months more?

Not sure about the other 3, but the 300 PRC has been shipping for the last two weeks.

300 PRC update

The necks were EXTREMELY tight. I mandreled with a carbide mandrel and they were tough to deal with. When I seated the bullets....they were 120in/lbs to shove the bullet in....when normally I strive for 20in/lbs. Basically...I thought I was going to break my arbor press pushing them in...

www.snipershide.com

 

[nick338]

Here ya go

Thanks for posting that I'll pick up the book.

I'm definitely over their data. Just hit 85 rds on the barrel and still playing with loads. Was at 87 grs of N570 with the 250 gr no pressure signs and was averaging 2953 fps. Cleaned the barrel and it sped up to an average of 3015 fps still no pressure but groups opened up so I'm backing down and re-testing.

 

[robb_va]

Thanks for posting that I'll pick up the book.

I'm definitely over their data. Just hit 85 rds on the barrel and still playing with loads. Was at 87 grs of N570 with the 250 gr no pressure signs and was averaging 2953 fps. Cleaned the barrel and it sped up to an average of 3015 fps still no pressure but groups opened up so I'm backing down and re-testing.

From Hornady -

Rob, This data was definitely all done in a pressure barrel and shot. However we did use the SAAMI spec. standards and not the CIP spec’s. The (MAP) per SAAMI on this cartridge is 61,000 psi. Thanks.

The CIP (MAP) is 63,817 psi.

 

[nick338]

Settled on a load for now.

Bartlein 1-8.4 26.5"
250 Hornady A-Tip
86.5 grs N570
2986 Avg fps
Virgin Lapua Brass

100 Yard Zero

200 Yard 3 shot group

300 Yard 3 Shot Group

 

[robb_va]

Settled on a load for now.

Bartlein 1-8.4 26.5"
250 Hornady A-Tip
86.5 grs N570
2986 Avg fps
Virgin Lapua Brass

100 Yard Zero
View attachment 7641652


200 Yard 3 shot group
View attachment 7641656


300 Yard 3 Shot Group
View attachment 7641658

You are going to like that load.

I got out to distance at Black Bear today.

Win Tac/AI 26" 1/8 barrel
250 ATIP
87.5 N570
3010 FPS

 

[nick338]

You are going to like that load.

I got out to distance at Black Bear today.

Win Tac/AI 26" 1/8 barrel
250 ATIP
87.5 N570
3010 FPS

View attachment 7641757

Nice. Did you make it out to 2200?

 

[robb_va]

Nice. Did you make it out to 2200?

No. Just shot from range E. Started in berm 4 (1,853-1,989) and worked back to berm 3 (1,545 and 1,584).

 

[nick338]

No. Just shot from range E. Started in berm 4 (1,853-1,989) and worked back to berm 3 (1,545 and 1,584).

How was the accuracy? Vertical?

 

[robb_va]

How was the accuracy? Vertical?

Good. The wind was light 4-5 and it was coming at you from 11 so you didn't have to deal with that swirl and push coming off of Spears Mountain in Berm 4. It was a good day to shoot up there.

 

[robb_va]

Nick, here is the data for the overall SD/MV and each target shot with 87.5 grains of N570 and the 250 ATIPS.

 

[nick338]

Nick, here is the data for the overall SD/MV and each target shot with 87.5 grains of N570 and the 250 ATIPS.

View attachment 7641842

Thanks for posting. Nice to see someone else shooting the Norma with 250 A Tips.

 

[brianf]

Nick, here is the data for the overall SD/MV and each target shot with 87.5 grains of N570 and the 250 ATIPS.

View attachment 7641842

I think you have but…

have you played with solids yet?

 

[robb_va]

I think you have but…

have you played with solids yet?

Never tried them.

 

[robb_va]

Thanks for posting. Nice to see someone else shooting the Norma with 250 A Tips.

They seem to work okay with the N570. My overall SD was 10.07 for the 35 shots, but you can see that the SD for the 5 shot strings was between 5 and 15. Looking to smooth that out a hit. The error was always on the high side. I'm guessing tight neck tension. Those cases had been fired 3X without annealing. I annealed cases tonight and will try again next weekend.

 

[Hennig]

Ultimatum Deadline- 28" barrel, 1-9
225gr ELDM
Bertram case
CCI250
H1000 84.0gr
Jump 0.010"

2985FPS
SD7

85gr got me to 3035 but getting some ejector swipe and left it alone.

 

[brianf]

Please explain “very well”.

at what distances?

pics?

Thanks

 

[m1ajunkie]

Anyone running IMR 7977 with the 230 or 250 ATIP in your 300NM loads?