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Range Report 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17
- Thread starter MontanaMarine
- Start date
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17
I shot some of the 208's and RL 17 the other day out of the AR10T 24" 1 in 11.25 twist. I only shot a ladder starting at 44.0 gr, up to 47.5. Needless to say, I was impressed. I am around .020 from the lands, and this WILL fit in the AR mag. I have none of the usual pressure signs of the AR such as the ejector swipe, even at the 47.5 gr load. I will go a grain or so higher to confirm this finding. I used new FL sized and trimmed WIN brass and CI BR2's There are 5 shots in the center grouping. I originally mis-labled the shots. The bottom hole in the small center group is doubled. I need to get the Hornady VLD seater as the loads are compressed and the seater is denting the bullets. This however does not appear to have an impact on accuracy at least at 100. By the way, 5 different powder charges yield a group that measures .512.
I shot some of the 208's and RL 17 the other day out of the AR10T 24" 1 in 11.25 twist. I only shot a ladder starting at 44.0 gr, up to 47.5. Needless to say, I was impressed. I am around .020 from the lands, and this WILL fit in the AR mag. I have none of the usual pressure signs of the AR such as the ejector swipe, even at the 47.5 gr load. I will go a grain or so higher to confirm this finding. I used new FL sized and trimmed WIN brass and CI BR2's There are 5 shots in the center grouping. I originally mis-labled the shots. The bottom hole in the small center group is doubled. I need to get the Hornady VLD seater as the loads are compressed and the seater is denting the bullets. This however does not appear to have an impact on accuracy at least at 100. By the way, 5 different powder charges yield a group that measures .512.
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17
Wow, 2550 is nothing to sneeze at. I would have tried them in my AR10 but figured being limited to mag length would limit my velocity to 2400 MAX.
Wow, 2550 is nothing to sneeze at. I would have tried them in my AR10 but figured being limited to mag length would limit my velocity to 2400 MAX.
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17
I'm thinking another grain will be right at 2600. You're right, that's no joke. There is NO pressure at the 47.5 level. These speeds are right in line with the 24" bolt gun I have too. I think those pics/posts are on page 3 of this saga.
I'm thinking another grain will be right at 2600. You're right, that's no joke. There is NO pressure at the 47.5 level. These speeds are right in line with the 24" bolt gun I have too. I think those pics/posts are on page 3 of this saga.
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17
I wonder if the increased recoil will have an effect on wear and tear? Besides the bolt I'm sure the ArmaLite RSAUM rifles were pretty standard. Maybe I'll revisit this combo in my AR10 now too and say goodbye to lightweight .30 caliber pills once and for all. I do only have a 21" barrel though. I wish QL would get its shit together in regards to RL17............
I wonder if the increased recoil will have an effect on wear and tear? Besides the bolt I'm sure the ArmaLite RSAUM rifles were pretty standard. Maybe I'll revisit this combo in my AR10 now too and say goodbye to lightweight .30 caliber pills once and for all. I do only have a 21" barrel though. I wish QL would get its shit together in regards to RL17............
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17
I can't see the recoil being any more harmful in my rifle, as I have the gas adjusted WAY down. Had I not done this, I would think it would have an adverse effect. The barrel might wear faster, but again, most of the components on this platform are user replaceable, and have a finite lifespan.
I can't see the recoil being any more harmful in my rifle, as I have the gas adjusted WAY down. Had I not done this, I would think it would have an adverse effect. The barrel might wear faster, but again, most of the components on this platform are user replaceable, and have a finite lifespan.
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ffl medic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can't see the recoil being any more harmful in my rifle, as I have the gas adjusted WAY down. Had I not done this, I would think it would have an adverse effect. The barrel might wear faster, but again, most of the components on this platform are user replaceable, and have a finite lifespan. </div></div>
Ahh, so you have an adjustable gas block. Probably helps you run hotter loads too I imagine. I wish someone made an adjustable block .875" diameter so I could get one for my barrel.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ffl medic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can't see the recoil being any more harmful in my rifle, as I have the gas adjusted WAY down. Had I not done this, I would think it would have an adverse effect. The barrel might wear faster, but again, most of the components on this platform are user replaceable, and have a finite lifespan. </div></div>
Ahh, so you have an adjustable gas block. Probably helps you run hotter loads too I imagine. I wish someone made an adjustable block .875" diameter so I could get one for my barrel.
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17
These aren't really hotter loads. Pressure wise they are probably close to Gold Medal Match.
As to barrel life, seems like Faster loads wear worse than heavy ones.
I think its win/win. Good work on Alliant for coming out with a capable powder.
These aren't really hotter loads. Pressure wise they are probably close to Gold Medal Match.
As to barrel life, seems like Faster loads wear worse than heavy ones.
I think its win/win. Good work on Alliant for coming out with a capable powder.
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: robpiat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">These aren't really hotter loads. Pressure wise they are probably close to Gold Medal Match.
As to barrel life, seems like Faster loads wear worse than heavy ones.
I think its win/win. Good work on Alliant for coming out with a capable powder. </div></div>
I'm not talking about pressure. THe pressure is the same.
The recoil generated by the 208gr A-max at 2600fps is far more than say a 155gr Scenar at 2800. Way back in the initial pages someone even posted a calculation.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: robpiat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">These aren't really hotter loads. Pressure wise they are probably close to Gold Medal Match.
As to barrel life, seems like Faster loads wear worse than heavy ones.
I think its win/win. Good work on Alliant for coming out with a capable powder. </div></div>
I'm not talking about pressure. THe pressure is the same.
The recoil generated by the 208gr A-max at 2600fps is far more than say a 155gr Scenar at 2800. Way back in the initial pages someone even posted a calculation.
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17
Sorry...I shoot with a suppressor all the time, so the recoil difference isn't noticeable at all.
Sorry...I shoot with a suppressor all the time, so the recoil difference isn't noticeable at all.
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17
I made the "adjustable" block myself. I just siamesed into the block and threaded in a screw. It works rather well.
I made the "adjustable" block myself. I just siamesed into the block and threaded in a screw. It works rather well.
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: robpiat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sorry...I shoot with a suppressor all the time, so the recoil difference isn't noticeable at all. </div></div>
Now you're confusing recoil with muzzle rise. A can isn't magic, it can't reduce the rearward speed/force of the BCG. If anything, it will increase it due to the increased amount of gas speeding up the velocity of the bolt and carrier. What a can DOES do is significantly reduce muzzle rise, not "recoil".
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: robpiat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sorry...I shoot with a suppressor all the time, so the recoil difference isn't noticeable at all. </div></div>
Now you're confusing recoil with muzzle rise. A can isn't magic, it can't reduce the rearward speed/force of the BCG. If anything, it will increase it due to the increased amount of gas speeding up the velocity of the bolt and carrier. What a can DOES do is significantly reduce muzzle rise, not "recoil".
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17
I have shot hundreds of 308 rounds and thousands of others through cans. You can split hairs on the physics of it, but the rifle moves back less. It works just like a compensator utilizing the diverted force of the gases to pull the rifle forward. This inertia causes the gun to simply recoil less.
Using a can may be hard on cheap scopes, just like a comp is, but at the end of the day its much more pleasurable to shoot.
I have shot hundreds of 308 rounds and thousands of others through cans. You can split hairs on the physics of it, but the rifle moves back less. It works just like a compensator utilizing the diverted force of the gases to pull the rifle forward. This inertia causes the gun to simply recoil less.
Using a can may be hard on cheap scopes, just like a comp is, but at the end of the day its much more pleasurable to shoot.
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: robpiat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have shot hundreds of 308 rounds and thousands of others through cans. You can split hairs on the physics of it, but the rifle moves back less. It works just like a compensator utilizing the diverted force of the gases to pull the rifle forward. This inertia causes the gun to simply recoil less.
Using a can may be hard on cheap scopes, just like a comp is, but at the end of the day its much more pleasurable to shoot. </div></div>
I agree, as muzzle rise is important to manage to shoot more effectively. How much of a pounding my shoulder takes does not matter to me.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: robpiat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have shot hundreds of 308 rounds and thousands of others through cans. You can split hairs on the physics of it, but the rifle moves back less. It works just like a compensator utilizing the diverted force of the gases to pull the rifle forward. This inertia causes the gun to simply recoil less.
Using a can may be hard on cheap scopes, just like a comp is, but at the end of the day its much more pleasurable to shoot. </div></div>
I agree, as muzzle rise is important to manage to shoot more effectively. How much of a pounding my shoulder takes does not matter to me.
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17
I've been a lurker on here for a while. Figured i'd finally register and post.
I loaded up a ladder load for 208s and RL17, three rounds at each weight.
I used FGM cases and CCI BR2 primers and the bullet was seated just off the lands. Took my savage 10 to the range and shot at 300yds.
46
46.5
47
47.5
48
48.5
49
49.5
50
Unfortunately I didn't have access to a chrono.
I made it to 47.5 gr and I started to get pressure signs. The bolt was starting to get sticky and I could see ejector marks on the brass. I shot one round at 48gr and the bolt was sticky and a very clear, large ejector mark. At 47 gr I seemed to be getting good accuracy so I will load some more at 47gr and hopefully get access to a chrono.
The problem is, I don't understand why I was getting pressure signs at 47.5 and some people are able to go up to 50 without pressure signs. Could it be that I'm using a small base sizing die? Or maybe I should load the rounds touching the lands?
I've been a lurker on here for a while. Figured i'd finally register and post.
I loaded up a ladder load for 208s and RL17, three rounds at each weight.
I used FGM cases and CCI BR2 primers and the bullet was seated just off the lands. Took my savage 10 to the range and shot at 300yds.
46
46.5
47
47.5
48
48.5
49
49.5
50
Unfortunately I didn't have access to a chrono.
I made it to 47.5 gr and I started to get pressure signs. The bolt was starting to get sticky and I could see ejector marks on the brass. I shot one round at 48gr and the bolt was sticky and a very clear, large ejector mark. At 47 gr I seemed to be getting good accuracy so I will load some more at 47gr and hopefully get access to a chrono.
The problem is, I don't understand why I was getting pressure signs at 47.5 and some people are able to go up to 50 without pressure signs. Could it be that I'm using a small base sizing die? Or maybe I should load the rounds touching the lands?
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cookhj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok, so I bought some winchester brass and that did the trick. 50gr with no pressure signs and 3/4 MOA at 300yds. Thank y'all! </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cookhj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok, so I bought some winchester brass and that did the trick. 50gr with no pressure signs and 3/4 MOA at 300yds. Thank y'all! </div></div>
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17
Correct me if I'm wrong, but increasing your case capacity doesn't mean you can push them faster, it just means less velocity at a given powder charge. You might get the same results at 47gr in Lapua that you get with 50gr in Win Brass.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but increasing your case capacity doesn't mean you can push them faster, it just means less velocity at a given powder charge. You might get the same results at 47gr in Lapua that you get with 50gr in Win Brass.
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: robpiat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Correct me if I'm wrong, but increasing your case capacity doesn't mean you can push them faster, it just means less velocity at a given powder charge. You might get the same results at 47gr in Lapua that you get with 50gr in Win Brass. </div></div>
Yes and no. Increase the capacity and velocity and pressure will drop but whatever brass/chamber combination that has the most volume will produce the most velocity at a given pressure. Otherwise increasing case capacity would be pointless, which we all know that it isn't.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: robpiat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Correct me if I'm wrong, but increasing your case capacity doesn't mean you can push them faster, it just means less velocity at a given powder charge. You might get the same results at 47gr in Lapua that you get with 50gr in Win Brass. </div></div>
Yes and no. Increase the capacity and velocity and pressure will drop but whatever brass/chamber combination that has the most volume will produce the most velocity at a given pressure. Otherwise increasing case capacity would be pointless, which we all know that it isn't.
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17
I've gotta buy like 25 cases of Winchester brass for some testing. If I can run 'em at 2600+ through the 20"er without eating up brass and primer pockets, it'll be a winning combo for me. I ran them at 2600 for a while in Lapua brass, but it was eating up primer pockets pretty fast. Need to find someone with a 30" barrel and a long throat and see what we can do!
Anyone ever tried some slower powders in .308? like R22 or slower? Just curious.
Branden
I've gotta buy like 25 cases of Winchester brass for some testing. If I can run 'em at 2600+ through the 20"er without eating up brass and primer pockets, it'll be a winning combo for me. I ran them at 2600 for a while in Lapua brass, but it was eating up primer pockets pretty fast. Need to find someone with a 30" barrel and a long throat and see what we can do!
Anyone ever tried some slower powders in .308? like R22 or slower? Just curious.
Branden
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dust_Remover</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've gotta buy like 25 cases of Winchester brass for some testing. If I can run 'em at 2600+ through the 20"er without eating up brass and primer pockets, it'll be a winning combo for me. I ran them at 2600 for a while in Lapua brass, but it was eating up primer pockets pretty fast. Need to find someone with a 30" barrel and a long throat and see what we can do!
Anyone ever tried some slower powders in .308? like R22 or slower? Just curious.
Branden </div></div>
Never tried it because according to QL the velocity will suck.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dust_Remover</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've gotta buy like 25 cases of Winchester brass for some testing. If I can run 'em at 2600+ through the 20"er without eating up brass and primer pockets, it'll be a winning combo for me. I ran them at 2600 for a while in Lapua brass, but it was eating up primer pockets pretty fast. Need to find someone with a 30" barrel and a long throat and see what we can do!
Anyone ever tried some slower powders in .308? like R22 or slower? Just curious.
Branden </div></div>
Never tried it because according to QL the velocity will suck.
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17
Doesn't QL also say that a lot of our loads with RL17 will blow up the rifle, and yet we do it all the time without pressure signs?
Branden
Doesn't QL also say that a lot of our loads with RL17 will blow up the rifle, and yet we do it all the time without pressure signs?
Branden
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dust_Remover</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Doesn't QL also say that a lot of our loads with RL17 will blow up the rifle, and yet we do it all the time without pressure signs?
Branden </div></div>
So far 17 is the only powder I've found it to be innacurate for, probably because it is still too new. I've found it to be dead-on for RL22, Varget, RL15, IMR 4895, and many others.
But yes, it is way off with RL17. According to it my loads were 90k PSI and should have been 120fps faster.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dust_Remover</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Doesn't QL also say that a lot of our loads with RL17 will blow up the rifle, and yet we do it all the time without pressure signs?
Branden </div></div>
So far 17 is the only powder I've found it to be innacurate for, probably because it is still too new. I've found it to be dead-on for RL22, Varget, RL15, IMR 4895, and many others.
But yes, it is way off with RL17. According to it my loads were 90k PSI and should have been 120fps faster.
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Falar</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dust_Remover</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Doesn't QL also say that a lot of our loads with RL17 will blow up the rifle, and yet we do it all the time without pressure signs?
Branden </div></div>
So far 17 is the only powder I've found it to be innacurate for, probably because it is still too new. I've found it to be dead-on for RL22, Varget, RL15, IMR 4895, and many others.
But yes, it is way off with RL17. According to it my loads were 90k PSI and should have been 120fps faster. </div></div>
This is what I found too; it also applies to IMR 8208XBR. None of that data matches what I have found.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Falar</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dust_Remover</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Doesn't QL also say that a lot of our loads with RL17 will blow up the rifle, and yet we do it all the time without pressure signs?
Branden </div></div>
So far 17 is the only powder I've found it to be innacurate for, probably because it is still too new. I've found it to be dead-on for RL22, Varget, RL15, IMR 4895, and many others.
But yes, it is way off with RL17. According to it my loads were 90k PSI and should have been 120fps faster. </div></div>
This is what I found too; it also applies to IMR 8208XBR. None of that data matches what I have found.
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17
Same here, regarding QL and RL17. My loads calc around 70K psi on QL, but the brass shows normal pressure, no web expansion, and tight primer pockets.
I think the software cannot accurately interpret the retardant in the powder.
Same here, regarding QL and RL17. My loads calc around 70K psi on QL, but the brass shows normal pressure, no web expansion, and tight primer pockets.
I think the software cannot accurately interpret the retardant in the powder.
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17
Well
I am still testing the RL17 and 208 grain combo but here is an update on where I am so far.
This is with the 208 grain HPBT Match.
Loaded a ladder and shot at 500 yards.
Temp was 45F, 65' ASL, 30" Baro. 65% humid.
24" ER Shaw SS barrel, Stevens 200 action.
COAL 2.935" avg.
Lapua neck sized brass
CCI BR2 primer
42.5 2378
43 2400
43.5 2465
44 2480
44.5 2519
45 2532
45.5 2534
46 2543
46.5 2582 primer flat
47 2608 primer flat
47.5 2655 primer migrating around firing pin hole, pocket loose
48 2654 ejector mark, primer migration, pocket loose
Loaded five rounds at 44.2 and 46.7 as these were in the middle of clear nodes.
Fired three rounds of the 46.7 load so far.
Shot at 575 yards. 4.5 to 9.5 mph variable wind.
Got three rounds off before the target let go from the wind.
14 MOA come up from 100 yd zero.
temp 65F, 135' ASL, ~30.5" Baro, ~60% humid.
Vertical spread was 3.85"
Horizontal spread was 9.8"
Targeted velocity was 2600fps but was not measured.
More to come,
tater
Well
I am still testing the RL17 and 208 grain combo but here is an update on where I am so far.
This is with the 208 grain HPBT Match.
Loaded a ladder and shot at 500 yards.
Temp was 45F, 65' ASL, 30" Baro. 65% humid.
24" ER Shaw SS barrel, Stevens 200 action.
COAL 2.935" avg.
Lapua neck sized brass
CCI BR2 primer
42.5 2378
43 2400
43.5 2465
44 2480
44.5 2519
45 2532
45.5 2534
46 2543
46.5 2582 primer flat
47 2608 primer flat
47.5 2655 primer migrating around firing pin hole, pocket loose
48 2654 ejector mark, primer migration, pocket loose
Loaded five rounds at 44.2 and 46.7 as these were in the middle of clear nodes.
Fired three rounds of the 46.7 load so far.
Shot at 575 yards. 4.5 to 9.5 mph variable wind.
Got three rounds off before the target let go from the wind.
14 MOA come up from 100 yd zero.
temp 65F, 135' ASL, ~30.5" Baro, ~60% humid.
Vertical spread was 3.85"
Horizontal spread was 9.8"
Targeted velocity was 2600fps but was not measured.
More to come,
tater
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Belisarius</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Did some testing today, RL-17 + 208 a-max in 308win, 30" Krieger barrel, 1-11" twist, temp was 91F at 150' above sea level.
48gr-2680fps
49gr-2720fps
50gr-2750fps
51gr-2830fps - flat primers bolt lift was normal.
brass was winchester, federal primers </div></div>
Tried a new combo yesterday. Hornady brass, Win large primers with 49.5 charge that wasn't compressed and blew the primer out. Same load, same case, CCI primers no problem. What now? Is it the Win primers? Never noticed a difference with primers before.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Belisarius</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Did some testing today, RL-17 + 208 a-max in 308win, 30" Krieger barrel, 1-11" twist, temp was 91F at 150' above sea level.
48gr-2680fps
49gr-2720fps
50gr-2750fps
51gr-2830fps - flat primers bolt lift was normal.
brass was winchester, federal primers </div></div>
Tried a new combo yesterday. Hornady brass, Win large primers with 49.5 charge that wasn't compressed and blew the primer out. Same load, same case, CCI primers no problem. What now? Is it the Win primers? Never noticed a difference with primers before.
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17
Nothing is going to be as roomy as the WIN brass. If you switch brass, you should rework your load from about 43Gr
Nothing is going to be as roomy as the WIN brass. If you switch brass, you should rework your load from about 43Gr
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17
I've gotta do some load testing on mag length loads with the 208's and Lapua brass, anyone have a idea what powder charges I should look at starting at? I shoot 47gr loaded long, thinking about starting at 42 and going up for a 2.800"COL loading. Hoping for 2500fps, 2450 is acceptable if 2500 just isn't workable. I've shot the long loads upwards of 2600fps in my 20", but 2500 was all I asked for, and didn't eat up brass.
Branden
I've gotta do some load testing on mag length loads with the 208's and Lapua brass, anyone have a idea what powder charges I should look at starting at? I shoot 47gr loaded long, thinking about starting at 42 and going up for a 2.800"COL loading. Hoping for 2500fps, 2450 is acceptable if 2500 just isn't workable. I've shot the long loads upwards of 2600fps in my 20", but 2500 was all I asked for, and didn't eat up brass.
Branden
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17
I've tried loading from 45.6 to 47.1 grains of RL17 with the 210 grain SMK out of a 20" AR. I'm limited by the magazine, so I load them to 2.860", which is 2.170" to the ogive. Just so you know, the C-Products mags for SR25/LR308 give a smidgen more room over the DMPS mags.
My results were the following:
New Winchester brass
CCI BR2 promers
210 grain SMK
45.6 - 2,346
45.9 - 2,352
46.2 - 2,351
46.5 - 2,360
46.8 - 2,378
47.1 - 2,393
No pressure signs
The next day, I shot the 46.8 grain charge and it averaged 2,437. The temp was 52 degrees, which the day before with the above data was 65 degrees. Accuracy was terrible, which I have concluded was due to new brass vice fire formed. My gun does this with other loads and bullet weights too, and I have shot groups with both new brass and once fired using the same charge, and the difference is so much that I don't bother with new brass for accuracy loads any more.
I will do a ladder test up to 48.3 grains when I can to figure out how high I can go. I picked up some 208 grain A-Maxes yesterday, which suprised me because somebody out there must shoot a ton of them. It's the first time I've seen them in stock.
A question for those who may know - it's pretty well known that Quickload is way off for RL17, and this is confirmed by my own data, but can anyone tell me why QL calls for amost a full 2 grains more powder to safely launch a 208 grain A-Max than it does for the 210 grain SMK? It says this for Varget, RL15, and IMR 8208, just to name a few.
I've tried loading from 45.6 to 47.1 grains of RL17 with the 210 grain SMK out of a 20" AR. I'm limited by the magazine, so I load them to 2.860", which is 2.170" to the ogive. Just so you know, the C-Products mags for SR25/LR308 give a smidgen more room over the DMPS mags.
My results were the following:
New Winchester brass
CCI BR2 promers
210 grain SMK
45.6 - 2,346
45.9 - 2,352
46.2 - 2,351
46.5 - 2,360
46.8 - 2,378
47.1 - 2,393
No pressure signs
The next day, I shot the 46.8 grain charge and it averaged 2,437. The temp was 52 degrees, which the day before with the above data was 65 degrees. Accuracy was terrible, which I have concluded was due to new brass vice fire formed. My gun does this with other loads and bullet weights too, and I have shot groups with both new brass and once fired using the same charge, and the difference is so much that I don't bother with new brass for accuracy loads any more.
I will do a ladder test up to 48.3 grains when I can to figure out how high I can go. I picked up some 208 grain A-Maxes yesterday, which suprised me because somebody out there must shoot a ton of them. It's the first time I've seen them in stock.
A question for those who may know - it's pretty well known that Quickload is way off for RL17, and this is confirmed by my own data, but can anyone tell me why QL calls for amost a full 2 grains more powder to safely launch a 208 grain A-Max than it does for the 210 grain SMK? It says this for Varget, RL15, and IMR 8208, just to name a few.
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17
For you AR shooters, I tried the 208 AMAX this weekend with an OCW test. This is from the 20" LR308. Results from first test:
No pressure signs. Speeds were:
46.2 - AV 2,428; ES 13
46.5 - AV 2,432; ES 15
46.8 - AV 2,465; ES 41
47.1 - AV 2,486; ES 31
47.4 - AV 2,512; ES 49
47.7 - AV 2,495; ES 16
48 - AV 2,501; ES 56
48.3 - AV 2,529; ES 13
The 48 and 48.3 grain charge have the same POI, but I wanted to see what 48.5 grains would show. I loaded three rounds each of 48.1, 48.3, and 48.5 and shot them yesterday:
Left to right, 48.1, 48.3, 48.5 grain charges. I don't know what happened to the 48.1 grain group. The shot in the center of the diamond on the 48.3 grain group was me riding the sear while I was exhaling. I think I have a winner with the 48.3 grain group. I'm loading these at 2.860" OAL / 2.140" ogive to fit in the C-Products magazines. x2 Winchester brass and BR2 primers. Slight ejector mark on one of the 48.5 cases, but the primers were very cratered with that charge. Other than that the others looked good.
For you AR shooters, I tried the 208 AMAX this weekend with an OCW test. This is from the 20" LR308. Results from first test:
No pressure signs. Speeds were:
46.2 - AV 2,428; ES 13
46.5 - AV 2,432; ES 15
46.8 - AV 2,465; ES 41
47.1 - AV 2,486; ES 31
47.4 - AV 2,512; ES 49
47.7 - AV 2,495; ES 16
48 - AV 2,501; ES 56
48.3 - AV 2,529; ES 13
The 48 and 48.3 grain charge have the same POI, but I wanted to see what 48.5 grains would show. I loaded three rounds each of 48.1, 48.3, and 48.5 and shot them yesterday:
Left to right, 48.1, 48.3, 48.5 grain charges. I don't know what happened to the 48.1 grain group. The shot in the center of the diamond on the 48.3 grain group was me riding the sear while I was exhaling. I think I have a winner with the 48.3 grain group. I'm loading these at 2.860" OAL / 2.140" ogive to fit in the C-Products magazines. x2 Winchester brass and BR2 primers. Slight ejector mark on one of the 48.5 cases, but the primers were very cratered with that charge. Other than that the others looked good.
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17
20". I've found that if I'm not perfect with my shooting form, my groups suffer a bit. The second day, the top shot in the center target was my fault. I'm going to load up ten or more of these tonight and try to shoot them tomorrow for groups.
20". I've found that if I'm not perfect with my shooting form, my groups suffer a bit. The second day, the top shot in the center target was my fault. I'm going to load up ten or more of these tonight and try to shoot them tomorrow for groups.
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17
I tried some of the 208s in the bolt gun today.Savage with a Broughton 5C 23" "bisley" chamber by Kiff. Anyways, I've had a heck of a time with these AMAXs'. They seem to me a bit more difficult to find a sweet spot than the 210 Berger VLDs. I've danced around trying to isolate some sort of node. Today is the closest I've come. I shot a .570" group at 49.0 earlier when it was hot out, and it was... too hot. The RL17 is just like some of the other RL series powders, very temp sensitive. I think I'll mess around with the 48.6 (properly noted on the chrono strip, erroneously written on target as 48.9) load and see what I can get it to do. It looks like it wants to shoot... it does shoot! I'd like to see it a tiny bit better, though. I've shot quite a few ".1s" with this rifle lately, now even .250" looks huge in comparison! (Not trying to be boastful.)
I tried some of the 208s in the bolt gun today.Savage with a Broughton 5C 23" "bisley" chamber by Kiff. Anyways, I've had a heck of a time with these AMAXs'. They seem to me a bit more difficult to find a sweet spot than the 210 Berger VLDs. I've danced around trying to isolate some sort of node. Today is the closest I've come. I shot a .570" group at 49.0 earlier when it was hot out, and it was... too hot. The RL17 is just like some of the other RL series powders, very temp sensitive. I think I'll mess around with the 48.6 (properly noted on the chrono strip, erroneously written on target as 48.9) load and see what I can get it to do. It looks like it wants to shoot... it does shoot! I'd like to see it a tiny bit better, though. I've shot quite a few ".1s" with this rifle lately, now even .250" looks huge in comparison! (Not trying to be boastful.)
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17
I personally have not tried it. I think BIG GAME or HUNTER is in the same burn rate as RL17. Try it and let us know how it goes?
!
I personally have not tried it. I think BIG GAME or HUNTER is in the same burn rate as RL17. Try it and let us know how it goes?
!
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17
I think the "magic" in the RE17 isn't in its burn rate, but rather in the retardants added to it that tame the pressure spike to more of a fat curve. I don't think trying a heavy compressed charge with a ball powder would be a good plan. The RE17 is pretty fine grained for an etruded powder. Meters fine for me in a Redding 3BR dumper.
I think the "magic" in the RE17 isn't in its burn rate, but rather in the retardants added to it that tame the pressure spike to more of a fat curve. I don't think trying a heavy compressed charge with a ball powder would be a good plan. The RE17 is pretty fine grained for an etruded powder. Meters fine for me in a Redding 3BR dumper.
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17
Just wondering I have 8 pounds of Tac that I don't have any use for because I got rid of my AR. I think I have some Big Game too. Waiting on load data from Ramshot. I shot them an email today. I talked to them on the phone a while back and they said TAC from 38 grains to 42 grains. I was thinking tac might work better in short barrel. My gun is SPS tactical AAC-SD with 1 in 10 twist 20" barrel. Would be very happy if I can get 2500 fps. Think I will replace internal box with wyatt's that is good for 2.880. I saw on one forum where they ran quickload with 210 berger and it showed at 2.80 coal 41.1 grains tac 2461 fps, so 42 may put me right at 2500 hopefully. When I get a chance to try it I will post results.
Just wondering I have 8 pounds of Tac that I don't have any use for because I got rid of my AR. I think I have some Big Game too. Waiting on load data from Ramshot. I shot them an email today. I talked to them on the phone a while back and they said TAC from 38 grains to 42 grains. I was thinking tac might work better in short barrel. My gun is SPS tactical AAC-SD with 1 in 10 twist 20" barrel. Would be very happy if I can get 2500 fps. Think I will replace internal box with wyatt's that is good for 2.880. I saw on one forum where they ran quickload with 210 berger and it showed at 2.80 coal 41.1 grains tac 2461 fps, so 42 may put me right at 2500 hopefully. When I get a chance to try it I will post results.
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17
Last week I had the chance to do a mile shoot, the only thing I have available to me is a 308, so I figured I would give it a try. This thread was perfect.
After reading thru this, I went and got some Hornady 208 BTHP, couldn't find any Amax so I just went with what the store had. Grabbed a pound of RE17 and went home to load them up.
I didn't have time to do any load development, so I just went with a 45gr in Federal once fired brass, loaded the 208's right to the lands and headed for the range to chrono them before the shoot.
5 shots grouped in at 1.25 MOA at 100m, not as small a group as I hoped, but the speed was avg 2530 out of the Savage FP10, 24" with a Karma-7 Suppressor. Plugged the data into the computer and got my numbers for shooting.
We started at 1408yds... My first 2 shots were way left, 15mph cross wind at the gun, head on at the target and who knows what in between, I had 10 MOA of windage and ended up with 2 MOA to get on target. Elevation was good and hitting 1400 after getting the wind wasn't a problem.
Moved out to 1760yd, one mile, all 5 shots were in and around the target, and I hit it once. Crazy wind, and shooting a 308 that far is really pushing the limits of that gun, but it was fun. For a mile I needed 99 MOA. My MK4 4.5x14x50 has 74MOA of come up with a 25 MOA base, and I dialed the power down to 7x to double the TMR and used the bottom TMR crosshairs just above the post to get the elevation. Definitely the limit of the equipment.
I would like to try this again in a little less wind, and if I can dial in the 208 load I might switch to it over the 175SMK that I usually shoot, as we regularly shoot to 1200-1300yds for our LRTR shoots, and the 208 gives that extra range over the 175's.
Thanks to all that have posted their results, it served as a good resource for going out and giving this a try. I'm not saying the 308 is a mile round, but it was fun to do.
Last week I had the chance to do a mile shoot, the only thing I have available to me is a 308, so I figured I would give it a try. This thread was perfect.
After reading thru this, I went and got some Hornady 208 BTHP, couldn't find any Amax so I just went with what the store had. Grabbed a pound of RE17 and went home to load them up.
I didn't have time to do any load development, so I just went with a 45gr in Federal once fired brass, loaded the 208's right to the lands and headed for the range to chrono them before the shoot.
5 shots grouped in at 1.25 MOA at 100m, not as small a group as I hoped, but the speed was avg 2530 out of the Savage FP10, 24" with a Karma-7 Suppressor. Plugged the data into the computer and got my numbers for shooting.
We started at 1408yds... My first 2 shots were way left, 15mph cross wind at the gun, head on at the target and who knows what in between, I had 10 MOA of windage and ended up with 2 MOA to get on target. Elevation was good and hitting 1400 after getting the wind wasn't a problem.
Moved out to 1760yd, one mile, all 5 shots were in and around the target, and I hit it once. Crazy wind, and shooting a 308 that far is really pushing the limits of that gun, but it was fun. For a mile I needed 99 MOA. My MK4 4.5x14x50 has 74MOA of come up with a 25 MOA base, and I dialed the power down to 7x to double the TMR and used the bottom TMR crosshairs just above the post to get the elevation. Definitely the limit of the equipment.
I would like to try this again in a little less wind, and if I can dial in the 208 load I might switch to it over the 175SMK that I usually shoot, as we regularly shoot to 1200-1300yds for our LRTR shoots, and the 208 gives that extra range over the 175's.
Thanks to all that have posted their results, it served as a good resource for going out and giving this a try. I'm not saying the 308 is a mile round, but it was fun to do.
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17
I tried 208gr Amax in my TRG 22 with 26" barrel.
COAL = 3,03" + 47,3gn R17 = 2.600fps
I use hBN on the bullets as this allows me to push harder without overpressure signs. With this load there was only one ejector sign on 80 cases and theprimers were slightly flatened.
best 5 shot group is .34moa/100m with 0,01" jump. Have to play a bit with different jump/jam options, but so far so good.
We shot at 1000m range last Saturday(and not that sissy 1000 yards as you dudes across the pond do) and the bullet preformed remarkably well. We even got the feeling that is was actually slightly better in that vicious crosswinds compared to 123gr Scenar my friend was shooting in his 6.5x47 Lapua.
I tried to push the charge up but the speed did not follow, with 48gr of R17 I got only 2610fps, compared to 2.604 with 47.3gr, so I guess we reached the reasonable volume limit of the .308 Lapua case.
I tried 208gr Amax in my TRG 22 with 26" barrel.
COAL = 3,03" + 47,3gn R17 = 2.600fps
I use hBN on the bullets as this allows me to push harder without overpressure signs. With this load there was only one ejector sign on 80 cases and theprimers were slightly flatened.
best 5 shot group is .34moa/100m with 0,01" jump. Have to play a bit with different jump/jam options, but so far so good.
We shot at 1000m range last Saturday(and not that sissy 1000 yards as you dudes across the pond do) and the bullet preformed remarkably well. We even got the feeling that is was actually slightly better in that vicious crosswinds compared to 123gr Scenar my friend was shooting in his 6.5x47 Lapua.
I tried to push the charge up but the speed did not follow, with 48gr of R17 I got only 2610fps, compared to 2.604 with 47.3gr, so I guess we reached the reasonable volume limit of the .308 Lapua case.
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17
You guys get 208a-max and RL-17 over there? Ain't that sunthing Vern? Slo-who is in Europe, are you sure about that?
Just messing with you.
All I can say is what a great combo you got there with the TRG 22 and the 208 a-max, I sure love it!!!
You guys get 208a-max and RL-17 over there? Ain't that sunthing Vern? Slo-who is in Europe, are you sure about that?
Just messing with you.
All I can say is what a great combo you got there with the TRG 22 and the 208 a-max, I sure love it!!!
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17
it was windy, had to adjust 1.25 moa watch in full screen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvozNFbYFNU
it was windy, had to adjust 1.25 moa watch in full screen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvozNFbYFNU
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17
Id like to try the 208 with 2000MR, would think it might work better than RE17.
Id like to try the 208 with 2000MR, would think it might work better than RE17.
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17
I've tried PP2000mr with the 208's. I didn't quite get the speed I did with RL-17 but I still have to try a little hotter load of it. I got up to 2550ish from a 24" 10 twist and my Rl-17 load was doing 2630 through the same gun.
bb
I've tried PP2000mr with the 208's. I didn't quite get the speed I did with RL-17 but I still have to try a little hotter load of it. I got up to 2550ish from a 24" 10 twist and my Rl-17 load was doing 2630 through the same gun.
bb
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Burleyboy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've tried PP2000mr with the 208's. I didn't quite get the speed I did with RL-17 but I still have to try a little hotter load of it. I got up to 2550ish from a 24" 10 twist and my Rl-17 load was doing 2630 through the same gun.
bb </div></div>
How much did you try of the 2000MR??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Burleyboy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've tried PP2000mr with the 208's. I didn't quite get the speed I did with RL-17 but I still have to try a little hotter load of it. I got up to 2550ish from a 24" 10 twist and my Rl-17 load was doing 2630 through the same gun.
bb </div></div>
How much did you try of the 2000MR??
