Range Report 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

[Good]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

Without going through the thread, what kind of ES and SD are you getting at 50g? I just got my chronograph so we'll be working with that quite a bit soon.

 

[MontanaMarine]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

I did a velocity check of five rounds recently.

Moly'd 208
Win brass
CCi 200
50gr RL17
3.00" oal
20.5" bbl

Velocities at 30 feet from muzzle. I had just swabbed out the bore with some Kroil and dry patches. It's well seasoned with moly:

1 - 2599
2 - 2611
3 - 2617
4 - 2618
5 - 2618

 

[mouse07410]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

MontanaMarine, what kind of hit spread did you get from 208gr A-MAX at 1770 yards?

 

[MontanaMarine]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

mouse, wish I had a vid camera. They were tight. Easily under .5 mil/1.75 moa.

 

[robpiat]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

Took the Savage out again today with longer OAL (About 2.95)

Shot alot better @ 100 Yds. I am using Lapua brass. I am getting notable ejector marks around 48 Gr. Why would I being seeing a different pressure threshold than you guys? It is the difference between the Win vs. Lapua brass?

I understand there are minor differences in chambers etc.

Going to try some more loads @ 300 next time I go out.

 

[MontanaMarine]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

I'm using roomier Win brass, moly, and have a long Rem chamber/throat. That would account for some differences in pressure.

 

[AtomicLabRat]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

Tag

 

[badbot]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: robpiat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Took the Savage out again today with longer OAL (About 2.95)

Shot alot better @ 100 Yds. I am using Lapua brass. I am getting notable ejector marks around 48 Gr. Why would I being seeing a different pressure threshold than you guys? It is the difference between the Win vs. Lapua brass?

I understand there are minor differences in chambers etc.

Going to try some more loads @ 300 next time I go out. </div></div>


Yes theres lots of difference between win and lapua. the LONG 208 uses up case capsity and win brass offsets that a fair amount.

 

[robpiat]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

If I settle in on a powder charge, what increments of OAL should I try to fine tune it?

 

[badbot]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: robpiat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I settle in on a powder charge, what increments of OAL should I try to fine tune it? </div></div>

first find a nice grouping load thats not real hot.
remember your internal volume goes down the deeper you seat, making the pressures go UP!

load a dummy round too long and then keep seating it until it fits your MAG.
thats the longest you can mag load, will this chamber? did it push the round into the case?
here might be the longest that will chamber.
what OAL were the first ones? did they have jump? start with 040 or so jump and work out until you have some jam say 010. where was the sweet spot? now run up loads again to see if you can get even better.

 

[robpiat]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

The most recent loads were all 2.950 and didn't mag feed.

Here is what I have....2.900 is the maximum length I can get in the savage internal mag. 2.976 is where I need to be to be into the rifling.

I guess I need to just determine how import mag loading is to me?

 

[303_enfield]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: robpiat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The most recent loads were all 2.950 and didn't mag feed.

Here is what I have....2.900 is the maximum length I can get in the savage internal mag. 2.976 is where I need to be to be into the rifling.

I guess I need to just determine how import mag loading is to me? </div></div>

Can you thin the mag walls to get more room?

 

[Good]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

I have a question.

What do these AMAXs like the best, a jump of xxx to the lands, or on the lands or stuffed in or what? What have you found?

 

[MontanaMarine]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

I'm loading them to just kiss the lands. That's where I started and finished, so I couldn't tell you if they are finicky about jump.

 

[mluning]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

tag

 

[paul T]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

Anyone tried vihtavuori N540 with the mighty Amax, 46.6g would give simmiler velocitys as 49g of RE-17 or N550, N540 Might be better option with tight chamber issues with the amax when seating below 2.840 oal.

 

[Falar]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: paul T</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Anyone tried vihtavuori N540 with the mighty Amax, 46.6g would give simmiler velocitys as 49g of RE-17 or N550, N540 Might be better option with tight chamber issues with the amax when seating below 2.840 oal. </div></div>

When R17 came out Kombayatch did a 550 vs RL17 comparison and Rl7 won out. If you search you can stil find it.

 

[bward]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

Have many tried IMR-4350 with the 208 AMax in 308? It seems to be more readily available than RL 17 and seems like it might yield similar velocities.

 

[stefan73]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

Great thread. It gives me a base to work my 210grn vld's off of.

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

Ran a ladder test today. Here are the results:

208gr Amax, Winchester Brass, CCI200 Primers, Reloder 17. COL: 2.95"
65.4*F, 33% Humidity, 29.61"Hg (absolute)

Rifle: 20" AIAE MkII

45gr - 2372
45gr - 2422
45gr - 2397
45.5gr - 2434
46gr - 2432
46.5gr - 2480
47gr - 2496
47.5gr - 2527
48gr - 2565
48.5gr - 2580
49gr - 2589
49.5gr - 2625
49.5gr - 2625

I had to stop at 49.5gr because I do not have a drop tube and that was the max capacity before the bullet would not seat to COL.

I did not see any pressure signs at all. I will post a pic of the target at 200 Yards. I may have to run it again at finer resolution, because I did not see any nodes that jumped out at me. I need to get a drop tube because it's apparent that I can go higher before I find the pressure limit.

I will say that it's got quite a bark in the upper charge weights. One of my teammates showed up while I was firing. He said he could feel it while he was still sitting in the car behind the line. Recoil is no problem on the braked AI.

 

[MontanaMarine]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

Looks like your ES tightened up nicely at the top, compared to the low end. I found the same thing.

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

Here is the target photo:

I just realized that I have two "#8" on the target. Thankfully since I was taking pictures of each shot, I could tell which was which.

With the results I have gotten on this I am tempted to just load up some with 49.5gr and do some accuracy testing.

 

[magnum_99]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

I did an abbreviated test today with the Berger 210 over 47-49.5 gr. of RL17. I could not do a full test because of the heavy snow we just got, and my tripod just broke and I had no way to set up my chronograph.

Test conditions: snow, 20 degrees F.

Test rifle: stock Rem700P, 26 " barrel--~100 rounds though it (I bought it used recently and the previous owner said he put about 50 rounds through it, and I have put 50 through before this). It shoots one hole groups with 175 grain Sierra HPBT-M over 44 grains of Varget.

I started with 47 grains of RL17. I seated .003" off the lands at 3" OAL, Winchester brass, Fed210M primer. I saw no pressure signs all the way up to 49.5 grains, where I stopped. At 49.5 grains I got normal bolt lift, and a faint smear on the case of an extractor mark, but not enough to really worry about. Primer was normal.

I got about a 1" group, but I was REALLY cold by that point, and couldn't really tell if it was me, or the load. I did have two rounds touching, and then another separate two rounds touching, but they were spread out about 1", so it could have been me shivering.

Today was more about finding whether or not I could get to 49.5 grains without any pressure signs. I plan to load some more at 49.5 and chrono test and group test, and then take some shots at 1150, which is the max at my range.

I hope the cold weather is not the limiting factor here, and I will be watching for pressure signs once I get to shoot in warmer weather.

I will say that recoil and bark is like a .300WSM. I'm not used to that in a .308, but it is manageable. My goal is to get 2650 fps of out this load at 1 moa or better. I've run some charts, and the performance over the 175 at 2630 is impressive.

 

[MontanaMarine]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

I was shooting some moly'd 210 Bergers out of my 308 a few years ago, using RL15. Accuracy was really really good. This was through the factory 26" 1/12 varmint bbl, at around 2500 fps via 44.5gr RL15.

I won't break the 'group rule' by posting a pic, but here's a link to five at 100 yards.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v461/m...nt=Img_3937.jpg

 

[LSOSGT1109]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

Anybody tried 210gr SMK's? I can't find any 208 Amax in stock anywhere. I backordered some thru midway but I did find some 210 SMK's. Sierra lists a BC of .645 for them. I thought I would try a few of them to see how they do while waiting for the 208's.

 

[esorensen]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

I shot some, still waiting for the Bergers to run out. They shot the same for me as the Berger, but a hair slower. I couldn't figure that one out.

 

[jrob300]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ffl medic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I shot some, still waiting for the Bergers to run out. They shot the same for me as the Berger, but a hair slower. I couldn't figure that one out. </div></div>

Probably different bearing surface.

John

 

[308garand]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

Not trying to derail the thread but I thought this would be a valid question here.

I have decided to rebarrel my Savage 10fp McMillan and had some questions about a new barrel. I currently have a 21.5" barrel. I am interested in loading the .308 with the Hornady 208 Amax and would like to have some input on what I should be looking for in a barrel. Let me also say that the I am not looking to compete, I just enjoy shooting at distance. Would it be worth it to go with a 28" barrel vs a 26" or 24"? I am thinking 1x10 would be the best twist rate, but am open to thoughts on this. If there is any thing I should consider or do I would really appreciate the input.

308

 

[MontanaMarine]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

I'm shooting a 20.5" bbl, and it's shoots well at 1000 yards. Heck, I have played with it out to a mile in the recreational sense.

For a play toy, I wouldn't go longer than 24" myself, but it's all in what you want.

My experience in shortening mine from 26" down to 20.5" gave me a loss of about 80 fps. That's only about 13 fps per inch, and it's even lower out the longer you are.

If you are loading the 208 with RL17, you can estimate a velocity potential of about 2550-2600 fps with a 20" bbl, and probably 2650-2700 fps with a 26" bbl. You can run the calcs on JBM and see what the ballistic advantages are for the extra speed, but even the short barrel will be over 1200 fps at 1K, even at low altitude, and in cold dense air.

 

[robpiat]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

I just had a Broughton 22" Barrel put on my 10FP. I always shoot with a suppressor. I am loading some of these as well as 185 Bergers with RL17 and H4895. I will let you know how it goes.

 

[robpiat]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

FYI, an order of these just shipped to me from midway that I back ordered awhile ago. I thought they were out of production temporarily or something.

 

[308garand]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

I am going to be setting up a dummy round to send to the barrel manufacture for chambering. My question is what seems to be the idea oal for this round? I see there are a lot of you running an oal of around 3.00. If you were going to have a chamber cut for this round what would your dummy round spec out to?

Thanks,
308

 

[ranger1183]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 308garand</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am going to be setting up a dummy round to send to the barrel manufacture for chambering. My question is what seems to be the idea oal for this round? I see there are a lot of you running an oal of around 3.00. If you were going to have a chamber cut for this round what would your dummy round spec out to?

Thanks,
308 </div></div>

308 - Just some advice. The more work you dump on barrel maker, the longer it will take to get anything done. Here are my suggestions:


1. Build your dummy round(s). It's better to send multiple rounds than just a single round. I built 5 dummy rounds for the last reamer I had custom made.

2. Order your barrel from whichever barrel maker you choose, with the specs that you choose. Barrel makers make great barrels, <span style="color: #FF0000">Gunsmiths <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">CHAMBER</span></span> great barrels.</span>

3. Order your reamer from a reamer maker. These are the reamer makers/renters I know of:

JGS Precision: http://www.jgstools.com/

David Manson Precision Reamers: http://www.mansonreamers.com/

Pacific Tool and Gauge: http://www.pacifictoolandgauge.com/

Elk Ridge Reamer Rentals: http://www.reamerrentals.com/

I have had courteous service from all of these reamer makers/renters. The quickest service I have had is from Elk Ridge and PT&G. Elk Ridge will rent you a used reamer. With a used reamer you are rolling the dice but it does arrive much faster. The best, most precise and most "beautiful" (if one can use that term in regards to reamers) have come from JGS and David Manson. Those two are a catagory above the rest.


4. If you want a barrel quickly, call Krieger barrels and ask for tech support. Once you get Scott or Mike on the phone, tell them what caliber, twist, contour and length of barrel you are looking for, they will check their inventory list to see what's in stock and if it's a perfect match, great! If not, have them recontour a larger/fatter barrel to what you want. They will do this no charge to you when you order your barrel. This will save you <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">MONTHS</span></span> of wait time on your barrel.

Krieger barrels: (262) 628-8558 http://www.kriegerbarrels.com/

5. Have both the barrel and reamer shipped to the gunsmith of your choice. He will need your action as well. Hope fully your giving him advance notice (and lots of free donuts) will entice him to chuck up your barrel and chamber it immediately. He uses one of your dummy rounds, threads the barrel and cuts the chamber and away you go to the range.

my ¢2 or should I say that this has worked for me in the past.

Good shooting.

 

[robpiat]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

I recently got my barrel from whidden gunworks in GA. They had a Broughton 5C in stock.

I told him what I wanted to do. The trick is that the long, tapered bullets may require less throat than a shorter, 168/175 etc.

I wanted it to be optimized for 208s/185 Bergers at about 2.85-29" and still be good with GMM.

Whatever magic he did worked like a charm. I shot about 70 rounds today, some of each, and they all shot well.

The 208s with 46 Gr did the best of anything, but a 10 shot group of GMM 175s were all touching,and about .75"

He turned it around in about a week

 

[308garand]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

Thanks for the info. I am going to send the dummy rounds to the barrel maker because the barrel is a prefit for a Savage, so I am not going to need a smith to install it. It does look like most are having good luck with an OAL of 3.00" so I'll probably go with that. Thanks

308

 

[Falar]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 308garand</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for the info. I am going to send the dummy rounds to the barrel maker because the barrel is a prefit for a Savage, so I am not going to need a smith to install it. It does look like most are having good luck with an OAL of 3.00" so I'll probably go with that. Thanks

308 </div></div>

I used an OAL near 3.00" in my Savage because I wanted to be as long as possible (for added case capacity) and still feed from the mag that was 3" long inside. If you are single feeding you may be able to go out a little bit more.

 

[tammons]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: robpiat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Took the Savage out again today with longer OAL (About 2.95)

Shot alot better @ 100 Yds. I am using Lapua brass. I am getting notable ejector marks around 48 Gr. Why would I being seeing a different pressure threshold than you guys? It is the difference between the Win vs. Lapua brass?

I understand there are minor differences in chambers etc.

Going to try some more loads @ 300 next time I go out. </div></div>

Probably the brass. I cant remember the case capacity of lapua brass but it is less than win brass.
I measured my new win brass at 55.3 gr of h20.

I am shooting a savage sporter barrel chopped to 19". 2.9" col, new win brass,
cci br primers, 48.5 gr of RL17. No ejector marks at all this time of year.

I am getting about 2500 out of it.

I did test that load when it was about 98 degrees, mid day and got slight ejector marks.

 

[Good]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 308garand</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what seems to be the idea oal for this round</div></div>My friend's Rem 700 likes them at 3.050" COAL. We were at the range the other day and shot 5 into just over 5" for .662 MOA at 750yds. Not as good as we'd like, but decent, and the wind was sporadic from calm to gusts at approximately 10mph. I think the "flier" that opened the group up to the .662 MOA mark was due to wind. Right before he was going to shoot I tried to stop him due to wind but right as I said "wind" he touched it off. Both powder charges of 48.4g and 49g shot equally well, though the 49g impacted approximately 1/4 mil higher on the paper. In fact, two of the 49g rounds were touching.

 

[mluning]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

Is a 1:12" twist enough to stabilize the 208?

What is the recommended twist?

 

[robpiat]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

I am doing fine with 1:11. Just try a box.

 

[SnkBit]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

MontanaMarine, who did the testing that brought this thread into existence, used a 1:12 Remington.

 

[MontanaMarine]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

That would be me.

 

[Falar]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

Anyone trying to use QL to develop their loads for this? I just got the program and it seems way off with RL17. The loads I posted WAY back towards the beginning of this thread are all in the 80K+ PSI range according to QL.

 

[GO-FASTER]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

With all the 208's and RL-17 info thought I would share my load shot today in my dpms 300 saum 20" barrel
61 gr. rl 17 with 208 mag length 2794 fps it is too hot but groups were good and brass is no good now
(what a thump)

 

[Rarebreed93]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tammons</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: robpiat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Took the Savage out again today with longer OAL (About 2.95)

Shot alot better @ 100 Yds. I am using Lapua brass. I am getting notable ejector marks around 48 Gr. Why would I being seeing a different pressure threshold than you guys? It is the difference between the Win vs. Lapua brass?

I understand there are minor differences in chambers etc.

Going to try some more loads @ 300 next time I go out. </div></div>

Probably the brass. I cant remember the case capacity of lapua brass but it is less than win brass.
I measured my new win brass at 55.3 gr of h20.

I am shooting a savage sporter barrel chopped to 19". 2.9" col, new win brass,
cci br primers, 48.5 gr of RL17. No ejector marks at all this time of year.

I am getting about 2500 out of it.

I did test that load when it was about 98 degrees, mid day and got slight ejector marks. </div></div>

That's odd, my Lupua brass contains an 5 round average of 56.16 of H2O.

 

[oneyardstare]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

I didnt want to start another tread just for my question. Here it goes. Has anyone had difficulties Moly-coating the 208gr A-Max´s? I´ve never had this happen before on any other bullet.... it just doesnt want to stick on!!

And yes, they were all degreased with acetone, soap-hot water.

 

[MontanaMarine]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

I haven't had any issues applying moly.

I usually just dump them right into the tumbler without any prep, add moly, and let it tumble for an hour or so.

 

[Rarebreed93]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

I find that they have a coat of some oil, I wash them with denatured alcohol in a small rag.
Then put them in a small child proof container and tumble.
They turn out great.

 

[KPK]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

Can this load safely be stuffed into an AI magazine and still be a useful round? Will it lack too much velocity, etc?

 

[Tpb10505]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

Tag