Range Report 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

[MontanaMarine]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ffl medic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I couldn't find any 208's so I bought a box of 200 Nosler Accubonds. I'm going to load them to mag length for the AR10. Any one have experience with the 200NAB and the RL-17? </div></div>

308 Win
Factory 700 VS barrel
1/12 twist
20.5" BBL
WW brass
CCI 200

200 Accubond, moly’d
2.82" OAL (jumping approx .14" to lands, but fits in factory Rem magazine)
RL-17
48 gr - 2485 fps, very low pressure, round primers, sooty necks
50 gr – 2620 fps


Had a strong full-value wind blowing, probably 20 mph. The potential for tighter consistency is there, but I haven't been back out with the 200 AB.

 

[KIDGLOCK]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: danska</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Back-ordered the 208s from a couple of sources as I can't find any, anywhere currently. I have 100 to start development, but probably need a hundred more to last me the next couple months until I possibly get some.

These pills are hard to find! </div></div>

There have been 3 boxes at the gun shop I hang out at for 6 or more months . I bought the last one because of this thread . Who got the other 2 ??? Bastard !!!

Any who , at my current spot in development I am IMPRESSED with the performance of these bad boys , they hit HARD . I blew a sand bag in half at 100 doing the 2300 fps . So , in lew of getting my wanted 2500 fps from my 308 , I got an 700 LA , just ordered a McMillan M40 stock , waiting to hear back from Cris at Pac-Nor on when to ship ................anybody need a couple 10mm Glocks ???

MM , I am thinking your Moly coating is giving you the wanted FPS , care to comment ?? Have any before moly/after moly info to pass on ??

 

[MontanaMarine]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

KG, I've never put a non-moly'd 208 through my 308, or '06, so I cannot quantify the difference.

 

[esorensen]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

Thanks, Shane. I haven't used the RL17 in the AR10 yet, just Varget. It should be interesting. It'll shoot the 180 NABs and Varget moa so that leads me to believe the 200s and the RL17 should as well. I'm just curious how it will handle the pressure curve.

 

[danska]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KIDGLOCK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

There have been 3 boxes at the gun shop I hang out at for 6 or more months . I bought the last one because of this thread . Who got the other 2 ??? Bastard !!! </div></div>

Wow, I've been to basically every shop in Western WA and Oregon, and found only one box of the 208s!

 

[danska]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

MontanaMarine, can you tell us about your process for Moly'ing your bullets? Thanks.

 

[MontanaMarine]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

I have a dedicated tumbler bowl for applying the moly (it gets moly'd up too). Just put in the bullets, and about 1/4 teaspoon of moly powder per 100 bullets, and let it tumble for about an hour.

If you don't have a dedicated bowl, put the bullets and moly powder in a vitamin bottle, tape the lid down with duct tape, and put it in the tumbler.

 

[KIDGLOCK]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: danska</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KIDGLOCK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

There have been 3 boxes at the gun shop I hang out at for 6 or more months . I bought the last one because of this thread . Who got the other 2 ??? Bastard !!! </div></div>

Wow, I've been to basically every shop in Western WA and Oregon, and found only one box of the 208s! </div></div>

I was in Seattle , once .

 

[GRIM]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

Tag

 

[KIDGLOCK]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GRIM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tag </div></div>

Lazy ingrate .

 

[hill billy]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

So with 208 AMAX's getting so hard to find(and damn, do I like them) I bought some 210 SMK's today. Hope they work as well for me as the AMAX has

 

[danska]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KIDGLOCK</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: danska</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KIDGLOCK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

There have been 3 boxes at the gun shop I hang out at for 6 or more months . I bought the last one because of this thread . Who got the other 2 ??? Bastard !!! </div></div>

Wow, I've been to basically every shop in Western WA and Oregon, and found only one box of the 208s! </div></div>

I was in Seattle , once .

</div></div>

I'm ready to get out of this place

 

[mgd45]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

I did a test at 500 yards with the 208's...got a 5 shot group at 2.5". The vertical dispersion was only .951"...so I was pretty stoked. Went out to try at 1000 yards today. Wind was full value at 8 mph.

Elevation: 32.75 moa
Windage: 5.0 moa left.

Cold bore shot hit center mass of man silhouette!! HELL YEAH!! I thought it was going to be a great day!! The next 4 shots spread out from the head down to the bottom of the waist.....about a 30 inch group!!! WTF!!!

I honestly can't think of why I had such a spread....I'm going to try & swap out the primers from WLR to maybe the CCI or the Federal Bench Rest primers.....

 

[robpiat]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

I went and shot some more today. Running a Savage 10FP with a factory 1:10 barrel

CCI LR BR Primers
Lapua Brass

At 47 Gr of RL17,2.810, mag length and I am getting around 2500 FPS consistently.

Took it up to 47.5, 48, 48.5 and finally hit a pressure point at the 48.5 where the ejector mark was significant.

I am going to stick with around 47 and tinker a bit. Had unremarkable groups at 100 but will try them at 300 Next time.

 

[danska]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

Robpiat,

What is your bbl length of your Savage?

 

[robpiat]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

Sorry....Left out an important piece of the puzzle. It's 20" and threaded. I have not tried the 208s through my Cyclone yet to see if I get a bump in velocity or not.

 

[danska]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

Good to know, I have a 26" barreled Savage.

Not being done with load dev yet, I'm not sure what my velocity is at but I'd like to get 2600 with my stick. It seems like it should be achievable!

 

[panzer075]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

MGD45

when you went to 1000 to test the load was your barrel cleaned prior? did you fire some fouling shots?

I have used Re17 and the 208's for 6 F-class matches now and I have found elevation issues when the rifle is clean, or if I dont take a few sighters..once you get 3-4 or so rounds thru the barrel it starts to settle down..but the elevation I get from a Cold clean barrel and re17 are much more than with many other loads I have used.
I have also found once you get near the end of a string of fire, (13-16 shots) chamber heat of the barrel will cook-off a load using re17 VERY FAST and cause elevation..maybe something to do with the higher pressures of these loads??

 

[danska]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: panzer075</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I have also found once you get near the end of a string of fire, (13-16 shots) chamber heat of the barrel will cook-off a load using re17 VERY FAST and cause elevation..maybe something to do with the higher pressures of these loads?? </div></div>

Could this have something to do with the temperature sensitivity of the RL-17? Are you loading the whole mag and having them sit in there for a while?

 

[memilanuk]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

danska, loading from the magazine isn't legal in F-Class, so I'd guess 'No'. With a healthy target puller, you can get 20 rds down range in well under 5 minutes, so the barrel can get pretty toasty even just single-loading.

Chris, how are you finding the 208/RE17 combination affecting your scores if you have to take several shots for to settle down? Seems like that would pretty much invalidate your sighters, or at least greatly reduce their usefulness.

Did you get a longer barrel or are you still using that stubby little thing...

 

[panzer075]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

Monte is correct..no mag loading..I was referring to residual heat buildup in the barrel over the course of a string of fire.

Monte, the load is doing well..and I have learned to always have the gun a little dirty before going to any match..I now only clean my gun after 4-500 rounds or right after a major match..(I leanred my lesson there..;-)

yes, I am still using the stubby little guy..but I have a new gun on the way..honest to god single shot f-class build with a LOOOOOONG barrel..LOL

Danska..it may have something to do with the temp sensitivity..my load was fine in below zero temps up till about 85 degrees..then I had to back off about .2-.3 grns but as powders go I found it to be alot more stable than my old Re15 load..

 

[memilanuk]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

Chris,

So... the question I have for you, given that you've used the load in enough matches to have an idea of how it behaves... I've got the impression from other people who've dabbled with the 208-210gr class bullets for F/TR that while they do buck the wind a bit better, assuming sufficient MV and all... that they were harder to shoot as accurately as 155, 175, or 185gr pills at distance. I.e. some of what you gain in wind drift you give up in group size. Seeing as you've shot them in matches, not 3-5 shots here and there at a rock or steel, but under match conditions where every shot is scored, good bad or otherwise... what do you say?

Monte

 

[Good]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

I am interested in that also. A friend just ordered a decent scope and we are hoping to start competing soon. We recently developed a load with the 208s and I would think ES would affect elevation more than how dirty your barrel is, but I wouldn't know. Is there a powder out there that achieves single didgit ES and "close" to the same velocities? I guess that ES would change with the rapid firing of possible 20 rounds in 5 minutes, but what are your thoughts? Testing, testing, so much testing to do!

 

[panzer075]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

Hey Monte, the last three palma style F matches I have shot them in..(110 rds for score each match), I have shot an 881 an 885 and a 875 out of 900 in registered matches, with a 196, 194, and a 190 for 20rd 1000.

the last match I shot side by side at the same time as Bob Bock and his new 7mmsuper short rifle F-open gun, at 1000 yds he shot a 143, I shot a 142..the match I shot the 885 included 3 new national records for me Darrel has the info from that match. I think the load shoots very accurately, and my vertical has been smaller than i have been able to hold when I watch barrel heat and cookoff. it averages a solid .5-.7 moa vertical maybe less..depending on how much coffee I have had..LOL

that said I think it takes some practice with the heavier loads..they recoil more and differently so they take a different "harder hold style" which is where I think some of the accuracy discrepency comes from. when you go back and forth between a 155 load and a 208 load you can feel the difference..

for the time being with my stubby barrel I will keep the heavy 208s at modest velocity..2580 fps..as I cant get lighter bullets fast enough thru my short tube..

 

[panzer075]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

Tim, I think ES is very important, however I try not to ever exclude a load that is very accurate at short range but w/ bad ES till I have at least tried them at LR..

I think alot of guys are pushing the 208s w/ too much powder and they are on the edge of overpressure and add heat or rapid fire and wham-o elevation. I got the 208s over 2700 fps from my 22 inch barrel..2740 I think..but accuracy wasnt consistent for a 20rd string (how I test) untill I dropped down till about 2600fps..and ES is around 12-15fps (dont have my data book here)

to date I have fired about 1200 208 amax rounds..(around 200 in testing) and this load has been very consistent..

 

[wolfman]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

Very interesting observations there Chris. If the Hornadys will do that, I can't help but wonder if Berger 210's might be a bit more consistant. 2700 w/ a 22" tube must have been a sight- how many loadings would your brass take at that velocity? I've just started workign w/ the 208-210's and am not seeing much effect from recoil. I'm thinking I might have a harder hold than lots of guys, even when I'm shooting the 155's... Nice job hanging w/ B Bock. Sounds like the load shoots, and so do you.

 

[panzer075]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

hey Wolfman..you know I want to try out the bergers..but I had won 500 208 amax's so I had them on hand to work with..

 

[Good]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

Very cool guys. Thanks for sharing info to those of us trying to learn.

 

[wolfman]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

Early days for my experimenting. My chrono seems to be on vacation, so I have accuracy and max load data, but no idea about velocities at the moment.

 

[danska]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wolfman1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Early days for my experimenting. My chrono seems to be on vacation, so I have accuracy and max load data, but no idea about velocities at the moment. </div></div>

Where are your accuracy points?

 

[wolfman]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

Norma brass, 46.5gr R17 seems to be right in the middle of a node, but only shot it at 100 so far. might have some data after Sunday.

 

[panzer075]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

hey wolfman, you are the 3rd person I know who has found a node there..I was shooting with a guy at a 1000yd practice day, and he knew I was using re17 and asked where I found good accuracy, he laughed when I told him, cause his load was 46.7..

my load is 46.8 grns in cooler weather, once it got warm I dropped to 46.5..

seems guys with tight match chambers seem to find those numbers magical..LOL

 

[Good]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

We were looking at 48g. Last time out it was shooting around .3 MOA at 300 meters. 48.5 saw extractor marks. We'll load from 46 and go up to 48 from there again to try to duplicate previous findings and then tune from there.

 

[wolfman]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

I blanked a primer at 48gr., and that's w/ Norma brass. Lapua would use less...

 

[kombayotch]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

46.6gr. was on the node with the 208 AMAX in Hornady brass for me.

 

[robpiat]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

Once you guys get in the velocity range you want, what powder increments are "rational" to find an accurate load? .2 , .3 Grs?

 

[wolfman]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

I a ladder test in .5gr increments from 45-48. 46, 46.5 and 47 all went in the same hole, 47.5 and 48 went back to where 45 landed. That's the extent of my testing w/ norma brass and R17.

 

[Good]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: robpiat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Once you guys get in the velocity range you want, what powder increments are "rational" to find an accurate load? .2 , .3 Grs? </div></div>Normally .2grns and 5 rounds each. Then shoot a bunch to make sure.

 

[danska]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: robpiat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Once you guys get in the velocity range you want, what powder increments are "rational" to find an accurate load? .2 , .3 Grs? </div></div>

Do you guys play around with seating depth or anything once you find a powder amount that works?

 

[mgd45]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

I went back out last night & finished off the last 8 bullets of my 208 AMAX's........I was pleased with the results, although I can't explain the shot that hit low right.......no idea why it hit so low.......I'm sure it's just me. Group size was a tad under 13 inches. I was shooting with the rifle propped up on the hood of my Jeep....wasn't the best position, but the only one I could use to see the target....

<span style="font-weight: bold">Load Specs: </span>

Bullet: Hornady 208 AMAX
Brass: Hornady TAP (used, trimmed to 2.015")
Powder: <span style="font-weight: bold">RL-17 at 46.5 grains </span>
Primer: Federal Gold Medal Match Large Rifle
Velocity: <span style="font-weight: bold">Chrony'd at 2600 fps</span>

<span style="font-weight: bold">Weather conditions:</span>

Temp: 91.4 degrees
Humid: 71%
Press: 30.00 in.
Wind: 4.6 mph right to left from about 5 to 11

<span style="font-weight: bold">Scope Dope:</span>

Elevation: 33.75 MOA up from 100 yd. zero.
Wind: 2.0 MOA right.

Rifle: Remington 700 .308 custom worked by GAP.....see below.

Target............

 

[panzer075]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

Hey MGD45,

could the low right have been the cold bore shot?

 

[mgd45]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

No it wasn't.

I forgot to mention that it took me 3 shots to get on target. The first shot kicked up dirt to the left side of the target stand.....I made a windage adjustment as best as I could guess & fired a second one. Saw the dirt kick up slightly left of the stand again & made another adjustment.

The third shot appeared to have hit center of paper with the way the dirt/dust impact appeared.....so I let the other shots go....then I drove down to the target to find this result.

Of course shooting off a Jeep with the bi-pod legs on the metal hood probably ain't the best/solid position......LOL!

 

[MontanaMarine]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

That isn't bad, considering shooting over the hood.

Pressure here is typically around 25.50 Hg, and at 2640 fps I'm applying 29.50 moa at 1000.

 

[mgd45]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

Thanks for the compliment. I measured the group last night & even with the low shot, the group was just over 11 inches. If I could just find some more 208 AMAX's for sale, I would try to stretch it out to 1400 yards......BUT I CAN"T FIND ANY FOR SALE ANYWHERE!!

I even called Hornady yesterday & they gave me the name of number of the most recent dealers who received shipments of 208's......nope.....they're already sold out! DAMMIT!

 

[MontanaMarine]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

Seems the 208 is really catching on. Supply can't meet demand. I have some backordered through Midway.

 

[jrob300]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaMarine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Seems the 208 is really catching on. Supply can't meet demand. I have some backordered through Midway. </div></div>

Hmmmm.... wonder why???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaMarine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have some backordered through Midway. </div></div>

Me too!

John

<span style="font-weight: bold">ETA</span>: FWIW I tried some 210 JLK's on Sat. (yes, it was in the mighty 300WM, but I thought I would slum and share my data.

) and they run about 50 fps slower than 208's with the same load, but they are freaking tackdrivers. I need to proof them at LR, but I shot 5 rounds into .282 at 100 yds. which is a record for my rifle. They *claim* a BC of .660 and JBM says they'll run with the 208 at 50 fps slower. We'll see

 

[danska]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaMarine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Seems the 208 is really catching on. Supply can't meet demand. I have some backordered through Midway. </div></div>

Me too. I'm hoping they really come through this month as I only have 100 on hand.

 

[panzer075]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

Hey Shane, how its goin?

MontanaMarine is the reason for my obsession with the 208's in my 308 for matches..spent some time out there last year hanging out with him, and he planted the seed..

LOL

hope all is well in Canyon Ferry..

 

[MontanaMarine]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

Hey Chris! All is good here. I'm feeling soooo much better this year. Been out thinning trees and brush around the west side of the house (wildfire safety).

Had a good visit with you Pete, and Elliot. Too bad I was in no shape to burn powder.

Hope all is going the best for you, and your family too.

 

[danska]

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

Bummer guys the date on midway keeps getting pushed out. It now says 11/30/2010 til stocked.