Range Report 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

48g seems to be our beast, me being spotter, but 48.4g shot well. At 200m, the 48.4g shot four rounds (I know I know, only 4...)into .8" outside to outside. I'm not extremely proficient in converting this measurement to MOA, but this converts to .492" at 200 meters center to center, with very little pressure. Bolt lift is normally smooth and very slight ejector mark at this 48.4g, shooting off Harris swivel bipod and rear bag. The rifle is a stock Rem. 700 .308 left hand action topped with IOR 6-24x56 glass. We will test more charge ranges through this gun promptly.
 
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

Has anyone tried to load the heavy 308's with the IMR 8208. I finally got a bunch of powder for my 155's but now I am on a kick to try heavier bullets. Picked up some 175, 180, 190, and 210s from JLK. Nice looking bullets and price was really good too.. Thanks
 
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

I'm back to working with the 208's and Rl17, wanted to try my pet load of RL17 in the 95+ degree temps and see what kind of temperature/velocity variations I would get. The other day the readings I got weren't what I was thinking was accurate, the sun was high and bright, and I think the readings were getting messed up.

I'm going to park back at about 500 yards or so, and let the bullets themselves do the talking, and let on target performance tell me what I need to know about the load. Going to look at the vertical spread. I'm shooting 46.0gr and loading long, could do 47.0gr however last time out the 46gr load gave me the group size advantage.

Branden
 
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

Well I got good results. Me shooting 46gr and loaded long is giving me right about 2450fps. Needed 15moa for 550y, and 21moa for 700 yards. Wind wasn't too bad, but the bullets buck the wind real well anyway. Groups at 100 were .5" and .43", they're 3 shot groups so I can't post a photo, but they were just to verify zero anyway. First group was shot CCB, and no variation of the CCB in relation to the rest of the group, the rifle's always been that way..I love it!

Target results are going to require more time to analyze in depth that the rough glance will provide. When the bullets hit my steel they really blow large portions of the paint off making multiple hits in the same area really hard to distinguish. Anyone have any tips on the type of paint I should use on the target that's going to adhere better, and only let a 1/2" or slightly bigger chunk get blasted off on a strike? Instead of upwards of 2-3" chunks of paint gone? Right now i'm just using a white primer spray paint.

Branden
 
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

I use cheap white paint from walmart, $1 a can. I was using rustoleum at $4 a can, but was having the same problem.. The cheaper paint seems to work best for targets, however it does not cover as well. Still want to make it up to KC to shoot with you one of these days--- Brandon
 
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AtownBcat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can anyone tell me what the max OAL for a 308 so that it fits in an AI mag? I hope to have mine tomorrow but am brewing a few rounds tonight.... </div></div>

AICS mags are about 2.820-2.840. Depends on if it is a factory or aftermarket mag.
--Brandon
 
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

I got to get out yesterday and do some pressure testing.

Lapua brass
208 A-Max
BR-2
RL-17
seated 2.88(to fit in AI mag)
Rifle is a 700pss with 26inch 1-12 factory barrel
it had cooled down to 90...

46.0......2464
46.5......2506
47.0......2539
47.5......2552
48.0......2597
48.5......2616
49.0......2637
49.5......2676
50.0......2687
50.5......2708

First a couple of interesting notes. I noticed the first extractor mark at 48.5, but the primer never seemed to flatten and the bolt was easy to lift all the way through 50.5. As you can see the velosity kept increasing also. I didn't go any higher nor do I plan to but I was impressed with the numbers.

The chrono is a CED M2.

would you guys drop down to where you first saw the extractor mark to do ladder testing..one other note is i dont think it is going to stay this hot either so higher temps should not be a problem.
 
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Belisarius</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow! The numbers are great! I'm surprised you fit 50gr of rl-17 in the Lapua case at 2.88. </div></div>

There wasn't much room left..I had a drop funnel and had to pour very slowly...there was also a ring left from my redding comp seater(you could see it but not feel it)
 
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

Can you guys give me some tips for doing a ladder test with this combo. I have a 26" tube also so I'm hoping for decent velocity.

I'm using winchester brass, 210M primers.
 
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

Here's how I went about it, with a 20.5" bbl,

208 AMax (moly'd)
3.00" OAL (kissing lands)
RL-17
46 gr - 2380 fps (velocities 15 feet from muzzle)
47 gr - 2430 fps
48 gr - 2480 fps
49 gr - 2535 fps
50 gr - 2570 fps
51 gr - 2645 fps

At 51 gr I had the case about as full as possible.
 
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaMarine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here's how I went about it, with a 20.5" bbl,

208 AMax (moly'd)
3.00" OAL (kissing lands)
RL-17
46 gr - 2380 fps (velocities 15 feet from muzzle)
47 gr - 2430 fps
48 gr - 2480 fps
49 gr - 2535 fps
50 gr - 2570 fps
51 gr - 2645 fps

At 51 gr I had the case about as full as possible. </div></div>

Your using winchester brass aren't you?

Branden
 
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaMarine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Branden, Yes, Winchester brass. </div></div>

Just makin' sure. I use 46gr and i'm right around 2450 or so with a 20".

Would like to pickup another pound of RL17 and work on some mag length loads, but the 208's are nowhere to be found. I think i'm going to have to order some 210 JLK LBT's and develop a load of those.

BTW, you have any information on the 225 Amax that's rumored to be coming out?

Branden
 
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

From what I understand it's not an AMax (no polymer tip), but a BTHP. 225gr, around .715 BC. Supposed to become available sometime in 2011.

I can't wait to give them a whirl in the 30-06. I'm thinking 2650 fps in the 22" 30-06. That would retain 1200 fps to a mile in local atmo.
 
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

My seating length is going to be somewhere in the neighborhood of 2.93, which is fine since my mag is longer. I'm going to do a ladder test this weekend, will let you guys know what the outcome is.

I'm dreaming of a 2600 FPS out of a 26" tube. I have no idea if that will happen, but it would be nice.
 
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

My node was in the 49-50.5 range. I used culver measures so I can't remember the exact charge. No chrono data, but I expect fairly similar data to other 26" set-ups. Seated .010 jammed (2.223 Ogive something like 2.94 OAL) in the lands so I can work back from here with no pressure issues.

I had primers just starting to flatten (not much) and slight ejector marks, no sticky bolt lift at all. I started at 46 ish and went to 51.
 
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

Just after reading entire thread thanks to Shane who gave Link some great info here, Any of you guys tried Vit N550 with The 208g amax and 308 Lapua brass, Ifso was accuracy and load data simmiler to re 17 also has anyone been able to buy the 208g amax in molly as i cant see it listed anywhere thanks, paul.
 
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dust_Remover</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyone have any tips on the type of paint I should use on the target that's going to adhere better, and only let a 1/2" or slightly bigger chunk get blasted off on a strike? Instead of upwards of 2-3" chunks of paint gone? Right now i'm just using a white primer spray paint.

Branden </div></div>

I've been using two coats of Rustoleum- white and then orange on top.

BTW - lots of good info lately. Like, am I the only guy using H4895?
 
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

My Midway inquiry on 9/8:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hypertex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I placed this order in June and I knew that the bullets were on back order until August. Seeing the shortage of this item as they became popular, I placed an additional order(1161xxx)in July when the in stock date was noted as September. Does Midway have an estimate as to when the first order will be filled? </div></div>

Their answer:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Midway</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thank you for your recent email. We apologize for the delay in shipping your order. Unfortunately, we have not yet received the Hornady A-Max Bullets 30 Caliber (308 Diameter) 208 Grain Boat Tail Box of 100 (product #915881) you have on backorder at this time. We are expecting our next shipment on or around October 31st. Please understand all product in stock dates are tentative and subject to change without notice. We apologize for the delay and any inconvenience.</div></div>

I seem to remember some in the for sale section lately that came from Midway...hmmm...
 
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

My best group so far is as follows:

Savage FCP 10, 26" BBL 1:10
Full Processed Winchester Brass
49.2 GR of RL-17
208 GR AMAX seated .010 jump (2.200 to ogive)

Got me sub moa @ 200 yards. I ran out of prepped brass at the range so I have to go back again. I might try just shooting some of these at some steel next week and see how they do. I'm getting pressure signs at this level but nothing too serious.
 
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: danska</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm getting pressure signs at this level but nothing too serious. </div></div>

What was your ambient temp? My shooting partner developed a load for his 7STW when it was cool. Got 3200+ from 165 gr. AB's. Wow!

90 degree day and he can't open his bolt....

Be careful...
wink.gif


John
 
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

Do you guys agree that these are not as accurate as other loads? I know there are alot of advantages, but I am not getting anywhere close to the groups I get out of 155-175 gr loads with amaxes or MKs
 
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: robpiat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do you guys agree that these are not as accurate as other loads? I know there are alot of advantages, but I am not getting anywhere close to the groups I get out of 155-175 gr loads with amaxes or MKs </div></div>

I noticed no difference between my 208s and 155s accuracy wise.
 
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: danska</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm getting pressure signs at this level but nothing too serious. </div></div>

What was your ambient temp? My shooting partner developed a load for his 7STW when it was cool. Got 3200+ from 165 gr. AB's. Wow!

90 degree day and he can't open his bolt....

Be careful...
wink.gif


John </div></div>

It was 65 or so here yesterday. Western WA is pretty cool, we only had a couple weeks of weather above 90. I'd ideally like to find a good accuracy point at a lower powder charge that being said.

The pressure sign I got was really limited to an ejector mark. No flattened primers or signs anywhere else. At the 50-51 gr mark I got much more severe pressure signs!
 
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: robpiat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do you guys agree that these are not as accurate as other loads? I know there are alot of advantages, but I am not getting anywhere close to the groups I get out of 155-175 gr loads with amaxes or MKs </div></div>

Whats your barrel twist? I'd try varget next, you won't get the velocity but the accuracy might be there.
 
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: robpiat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do you guys agree that these are not as accurate as other loads? I know there are alot of advantages, but I am not getting anywhere close to the groups I get out of 155-175 gr loads with amaxes or MKs </div></div>

They seem pretty accurate to me.

My results have been sub moa from 100 yards, to past 1000 yards, in favorable conditions.
 
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: robpiat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do you guys agree that these are not as accurate as other loads? I know there are alot of advantages, but I am not getting anywhere close to the groups I get out of 155-175 gr loads with amaxes or MKs </div></div>Absolutely not. Granted the gun likes everything and we haven't shot past 800yds yet, but at 48.4g we are shooting under a quarter MOA at 200meters with much testing left to do. That's good in my book.
 
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

Well I found a great preforming load today. It was actually at a much lower spot pressure wise, which is a good thing IMO.

46.4 grains of RL-17, bullets seated in the lands (2.213 to ogive). Surprisingly it took me 18.5 MOA to get to 775 yards. After inputting all the data into my ballistic program on my iPhone using 2500 FPS as a guess, I was way too high. I input 2650 instead and I nailed all of the next nine shots I put on target (steel 22"x12"). I didn't have a chrono so I can't say what my actual velocity was.

With that data being inputted still into my calculator, I dialed 32.5 for a guessed range of 1075 yards (it was slightly longer) and hit one shot, and sent a nice string right off the edge of the target due to the very slight wind flares.

Its probably not the overall highest velocity, but it did preform quite well. I'd never even shot to 1100 yards before today.
 
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tim Good</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: robpiat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do you guys agree that these are not as accurate as other loads? I know there are alot of advantages, but I am not getting anywhere close to the groups I get out of 155-175 gr loads with amaxes or MKs </div></div>Absolutely not. Granted the gun likes everything and we haven't shot past 800yds yet, but at 48.4g we are shooting under a quarter MOA at 200meters with much testing left to do. That's good in my book. </div></div>

I'm glad that's working for you. What chamber do you have on that rifle? Do you have any pressure signs? I just ran some numbers and QL says that load is way over max safe. Not trying to bust balls, but I am very curious as to the limits that the 208 A-Max and RE-17 can be pushed to. I have several .308's and have shot 220 grain SMK's with very good accuracy. I paid a heavy price in velocity so I'm wondering if the 208 A-Max is going to perform that much better for me?

Good shooting!
smile.gif
 
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

Absolutely no pressure signs at my 46.4 charge weight. I didn't get any pressure signs at all until about 48.5 grains, where most people start to get them. IIRC Winchester brass has the most capacity so you get a little more capacity there. I had a decently good accuracy point up @ the 49.2 grain mark but I didn't really feel comfortable pushing things that hard (got ejector marks, slightly flattened primers, no sticky bolt).
 
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ranger1183</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tim Good</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: robpiat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do you guys agree that these are not as accurate as other loads? I know there are alot of advantages, but I am not getting anywhere close to the groups I get out of 155-175 gr loads with amaxes or MKs </div></div>Absolutely not. Granted the gun likes everything and we haven't shot past 800yds yet, but at 48.4g we are shooting under a quarter MOA at 200meters with much testing left to do. That's good in my book. </div></div>

I'm glad that's working for you. What chamber do you have on that rifle? Do you have any pressure signs? I just ran some numbers and QL says that load is way over max safe. Not trying to bust balls, but I am very curious as to the limits that the 208 A-Max and RE-17 can be pushed to. I have several .308's and have shot 220 grain SMK's with very good accuracy. I paid a heavy price in velocity so I'm wondering if the 208 A-Max is going to perform that much better for me?

Good shooting!
smile.gif
</div></div>Very slighe ejector mark. It has been discussed earlier in this thread that QL doesn't appear to have R-17 figured out quite right. We loaded up to 49.5 but didn't go above the 48.4, as there was no need to. The rifle is a basic Remington M700 VSF in left hand config with stock 26" fluted barrel topped with IOR FFP glass.

Edit: As for working much better, I don't think so. It gains velocity, but the BCs are so close that the accuracy shouldn't be any different unless, the bullet just likes the velocity range R17 offers better through your gun. Increased velocity, but not necessarily better accuracy as plenty of people shoot those SMKs accurately down range. There would be a limit to where the .308 can drive bullets accurately at range where performance statistically suffers (pointless to shoot a 400g bullet) but where that point is, I don't know. You should try the 220s with R17 and report!
 
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

Just loaded up some of the 208 Amax with RE17 for a ladder test.

I started at 45gr and ended at 49gr at 2.95"COL without a drop tube I was starting to deform the tip at 49gr.

Hopefully I will be able to put them over the chrony later this week. Once I find the node I will load some up and see what the accuracy looks like.

We shall see if the 20" 1:12 AE barrel likes these. If so, I will be more than happy to use these as my long range load.
 
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tim Good</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: robpiat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do you guys agree that these are not as accurate as other loads? I know there are alot of advantages, but I am not getting anywhere close to the groups I get out of 155-175 gr loads with amaxes or MKs </div></div>Absolutely not. Granted the gun likes everything and we haven't shot past 800yds yet, but at 48.4g we are shooting under a quarter MOA at 200meters with much testing left to do. That's good in my book. </div></div>

Perhaps I just need to try some longer OALs. I have been sticking to 2.810 or so in a Savage.
 
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

Definently longer is better for this bullet. 2.810 is pretty short considering it is a Savage. As mentioned before I'm out at 2.93x, which is sitting in my lands, fed well from my 3.00 Savage mag.
 
Re: 308 Win, 208 AMax, RL17

I took the 208 out to a mile and beyond today. (2620 fps via 50gr RL17, 20.5" 1/12 twist bbl).

Conditions were pretty nice. Clear, sunny, 75F light and variable winds generally from 10-11 oclock.

It took 90 moa to hit at 1771 yards. I was shooting at a juniper about 38" tall (.6mil, 36 x .6 x 1.77) , dark green, against a dry hillside of dry grass. I was shooting into the afternoon sun, so my splashes were very visible. I was about 500' or so higher than the target. I was firing prone from a shooting position I built in a small rocky outcropping on the front of a hillside. Lased distance was 1789 yards, calc'd to 1771 yards horizontal distance. Had to lase two segments and add them, so distance isn't precise, but should easily be within 20 yards or so.

I had very good consistency. My elevation calcs have been very close out to about 1200 yards, but at this distance, the calc was for 77.6 moa, but actual required was 90 moa (22 moa in erector, plus 20 mils on reticle). Not sure why, but possibly the bullet is flying a bit tip-up out there and losing it's BC some. I had dialed in 3.5 moa windage up front, to account for using the tip of the 20-mil reticle index mark for hold. The index extends 1 mil out from the vertical centerline. Only needed 2 moa additional right windage to get on target.

For shits and giggles, I shot a couple 155 Scenars, 2900 fps, at the same target. I didn't have data calcs that far out for the 155 Scenar, so I just used the data from the 208 (90 moa). Surprisingly the 155 Scenars impacted about .75 mil above aimpoint.

From there, I tried to engage a target at roughly 2100 yards with the 208. I was correcting 120 moa (19 moa on erector, plus 30 mils on reticle). Impacts were visible, but inconsistent.