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308 Winchester AR Only
- Thread starter padom
- Start date
I have the EC next gen tuner / brake and they do work. I just recently started working with it and have already done some OCW tests and went right to the tuner. I'm likely going to back up and do some seating depth work with my best charge weights and get back into doing tuner tests with the best of the seating depth results.
175 smk federal 1x brass CCI #34 44.8 gr staball match 2.80 OAL.
10 round string on the magneto speed gave me 2439 fps for an average. ES was 37, SD was 12.3. This was shot out of a SR 25 ACC 16 bbl. 5 shot groups were right at 1.25. That’s about as good as anything shoots in it.
Thats what Id expect I get 2400 out of 43.5varget, win brass, 175smk from my 16” sig. m118lr was maybe 2450. M80 milspec is 2550. Want to try some 130gr bullets next.
Funny story. I was just out shooting this afternoon. Had some 125 Speer TNT’s loaded up with with 50 gr of CFE 223 in mixed year nato brass with WLR primers. I had never shot that load on paper. It was just a cheap load for blasting. That same ACC shoots them into 1.375 5 shot groups. I thought it was a fluke but did it 3 times in a row.
Didn’t get a velocity today. I’ll check it this weekend and report back.
.07" that's more than a few "curlies", I'll bet they are propitiatory to KA, like other AR's are to their brand
They are expensive, but not proprietary. The Larue mags will also get you 2.87, also expensive.
FC Cases with 178 ELDM and 44.1gr Varget are right around 100% capacity at 2.86 for me. And shoot pretty well.
Tamping/tapping them down and shaking near my ear, about 1/2 still have a very minor amount of movement and the other half I can't hear any movement of powered in the case.
While i have had issue with acs 20rnd mags the 10 rounders have worked well for me.
5 shot with the circled one being clean( no copper) cold bore. The other outside the group was me pulling but still right at 1moa and very annoying.
Then a single shot to confirm before I moved to steel. Again an off the shelf 716I.
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What issues did you have with your asc mags? I've had issues from some 20 rd mags myself, and am curious if it's the same problems. I use asc mags in other calibers for ar-15's and they run great.
The spring and the follower do not hold round flat against the feed lips. It would be crooked allowing the rear of the round to "sag" and the bolt would not catch the next round.
I cut the spring, about a coil and a half and played with bending it and got it to work, so the spring tension was more rearward but does not inspire confidence.
I bought a couple of them and they all did it.
ASC mags the front area is a little higher and can cause feeding issues in some rifles. Maybe its been changed since then I dunno, my 308 mags are all pmags and e-lander:
Tossed my asc for same reason. The only metal 308 mags I own are e landers. Seems like the rest of them are either too expensive or shit.
The EC Tuner shrank my group size by half and is repeatable. They really make sense for the AR platform with the long throat and being restricted to magazine length Ammo.
Jumping into an older thread I know but I figured I'd put in my $.02. I run a really hot .308 for my prs matches. Two years ago I found a super accurate sub-MOA 175 load with RE-15. I do all my data work ups here at the home/range in back yard in North Florida. I made the ammo in the spring and the first match I went to out in Crestview was in the heat of summer. The morning stages were fine I was having no trouble but by the heat of the day my dope changed and I was hitting almost a full two mils lower. I noticed this and started checking for pressure signs. Sure enough, it was ugly. The guys have teased me about carrying around UXO ever since. It's 4064 for me from now on!
Been reading through all the post and a LOT of good info in here. Just haven't seen or missed the right combination of answers I'm looking for.
Do a lot of single stage loading for my 308 and 6.5cm bolt gun and .223 for the semi-precision gas gun on the Forester and other bulk loading on the Dillon. The 308 is a 26" barrel and loading Lapua with 175 SMK using Varget. Hand load AR-Comp for the .223 with Lapua and SMK 75g. The only rifle loads I do on the Dillon are for the AR-15 using H335 as it meters really well.
Just picked a PSA Gen3 PA-10 with 18" barrel and need to start building loads for that gun. Been reading no real difference in loading for the gas gun than for the bolt gun, reading yes there are differences. So, a definite maybe. Also read use the specs in the Service Rifle rather than standard 308 Win. Not seeing any difference in the case specs between the two so ?? Hornady specs a 1:12 twist for standard 308, I have a 1:10. Been seeing a lot of post that like H4895 and 168 A-Max, 178 A-Max (discontinued) and similar. I don't have H4895 and haven't seen any.
So.... questions. I have several hundred Hornady 150gr FMJ-BT (with cannelure) bullets in the cabinet, HUNDREDS of Hornady and Federal 308 brass, Varget and AR-Comp and H335 in quantity in the cabinet ahd Federal LR Match primers. Local club goes to 218 yards so all I'm planning on for the gas gun, belong to club that goes past 1,000y but long drive and run the bolt guns at that distance.
Want to work up a load using the 150gr Hornady to work ACCURATELY in the 100 to 218y range in the Hornady/Federal brass. AR-Comp or Varget and why? Seen H335 on the list used but not on the Hornady Manual list. Only powder on the Hornady Manual list I have is Varget. Seen AR-Comp used but not on the Hornady Manual list. Any difference in the sizing and prep from standard bolt gun prep? Bolt gun uses neck tension so I do a separate run on the single stage with the M-die plus anneal. Neck tension good enough or separate crimp?
Just about finished putting the rifle together but need loads to run other than factory. I spend a lot of time and money on the long range match loads for the bolt gun but don't want to spend near as much on the gas gun, to easy to pull the trigger x $
Do a lot of single stage loading for my 308 and 6.5cm bolt gun and .223 for the semi-precision gas gun on the Forester and other bulk loading on the Dillon. The 308 is a 26" barrel and loading Lapua with 175 SMK using Varget. Hand load AR-Comp for the .223 with Lapua and SMK 75g. The only rifle loads I do on the Dillon are for the AR-15 using H335 as it meters really well.
Just picked a PSA Gen3 PA-10 with 18" barrel and need to start building loads for that gun. Been reading no real difference in loading for the gas gun than for the bolt gun, reading yes there are differences. So, a definite maybe. Also read use the specs in the Service Rifle rather than standard 308 Win. Not seeing any difference in the case specs between the two so ?? Hornady specs a 1:12 twist for standard 308, I have a 1:10. Been seeing a lot of post that like H4895 and 168 A-Max, 178 A-Max (discontinued) and similar. I don't have H4895 and haven't seen any.
So.... questions. I have several hundred Hornady 150gr FMJ-BT (with cannelure) bullets in the cabinet, HUNDREDS of Hornady and Federal 308 brass, Varget and AR-Comp and H335 in quantity in the cabinet ahd Federal LR Match primers. Local club goes to 218 yards so all I'm planning on for the gas gun, belong to club that goes past 1,000y but long drive and run the bolt guns at that distance.
Want to work up a load using the 150gr Hornady to work ACCURATELY in the 100 to 218y range in the Hornady/Federal brass. AR-Comp or Varget and why? Seen H335 on the list used but not on the Hornady Manual list. Only powder on the Hornady Manual list I have is Varget. Seen AR-Comp used but not on the Hornady Manual list. Any difference in the sizing and prep from standard bolt gun prep? Bolt gun uses neck tension so I do a separate run on the single stage with the M-die plus anneal. Neck tension good enough or separate crimp?
Just about finished putting the rifle together but need loads to run other than factory. I spend a lot of time and money on the long range match loads for the bolt gun but don't want to spend near as much on the gas gun, to easy to pull the trigger x $
Small base sized Fed brass, 40.5-41.5 H335, 150gr hornady seated to cannelure. If you want a match load that will feed from the magazine about 42-43grains of varget and a 168 or 175 loaded to 2.80" or maybe 40.3-41 AR Comp.
Hornady service rifle data is meant to be safe for garands, m1as port pressure wise so some of it is a bit low.
My favorite load for 308 M1A/AR10 is fed or LC brass, cci BR primer, 175SMK, 41.5 H4895, 2.805" too bad primers and powder are crazy now.
I'm a long time reloader but new to long range shooting. My current 308AR is based on the S&W MP-10. I say based, because the only parts original to the S&W are the upper/lower and ambi controls. It currently sports a Wilson Combat 20" barrel and BCG. I had to back the loads down from the previous barrel; unknown as to why. Anyway, here's my current loading on 150gr for up to 600 yards. Shoots 1/2" at 100yds if I do my part.
Bullet is Hornady #3037 150gr FMG-BT with cannelure.
killizyrag: Must be your own spreadsheet for your data as I don't recognize it. I've been doing my own spreadsheets for every single firearm and they keep evolving. Haven't done anything with the 308 in quit a while but here's a sample of what I use.
Attachments
Update on the AA2495 and 168eld trials.
Loaded up a 50 rounds at 42.1 grains, COAL at 2.805 Federal 13 brass, Remington 9 1/2 primer
I shot three over the chrono to verify speed and zero, then started throwing them downrange.
The three test shots grouped at .68"
Out of a 20" criterion they measured
2590
2596
2594
Had to fight mirage and figure the winds out at 550, but after it was on the 8" gong was no problem.
Moved it back to 845. Used my 6.5 CM to get the wind call took me a few shots, but once I had my windage call it was on. Used that info when I switch to the 308 gasser and got a first round hit on the 18x12 silhouette, and hit it everytime I shot at it. Couldn't get the 8" plate from back there, but I'll take consecutive hits from a semi auto .308 at just under a 1/2 mile.
My "super scientific" terminal ballistics test also tell me that this will be fantastic on whitetail as well. I think I found my one load for all things, from paper, steel, tannerite, groundhogs, coyotes, or deer. One bullet. One powder charge.
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Greetings,
Have any of you ever used the ARMSCOR bullets?
I found .308 147gr FMJ at Armorally and was curious about them.
Have any of you ever used the ARMSCOR bullets?
I found .308 147gr FMJ at Armorally and was curious about them.
Yeah tried some they were pretty bad, the xtreme bullets are a bit better for the same money. Midwayusa has some seconds of hornady and sierra for 23-25cents each if you want a bullet that is halfway decent.
155 nosler custom competition match bullet. 46 grains of varget. Shoots great out to 1000 and is very accurate
Not a fan of Hornady rifle bullets.
Not in 308 or 223.
Have been my worst preforming rounds in any gun.
As soon as I ditched Hornady dies and rifle bullets I made some very accurate rounds.
I keep getting some from friends or family as gifts. They will be used in trade for anything I can eat drink or feed to the dog but I'm not wasting powder, primers or time on them.
Imho
Not in 308 or 223.
Have been my worst preforming rounds in any gun.
As soon as I ditched Hornady dies and rifle bullets I made some very accurate rounds.
I keep getting some from friends or family as gifts. They will be used in trade for anything I can eat drink or feed to the dog but I'm not wasting powder, primers or time on them.
Imho
I have been for years. FGMM LRM in my match .308. I make a really spicy 175 OTM for use in PRS. The guys tease me by calling it UXO but it's worked for me for years and my rds keep up with most of the 6.5's. It works in my rig but it goes without saying, do your homework and work it up slowly and safely.
Magnum primers in a not-magnum are fine it might change your powder charge accuracy node a bit.
I believe that the CCI 7.62 "MILITARY" blah blah primers they sell are magnums. Same for 5.56 CCI NATO primers.
Some people think that ball powders will be "more accurate" with a magnum primer.
Also magnum primers have a harder cup because magnums have higher pressures.
The only time I found a mag primer to be "bad" was making F class loads for 308. The CCI BR primers seemed to be more accurate than anything else.
I believe that the CCI 7.62 "MILITARY" blah blah primers they sell are magnums. Same for 5.56 CCI NATO primers.
Some people think that ball powders will be "more accurate" with a magnum primer.
Also magnum primers have a harder cup because magnums have higher pressures.
The only time I found a mag primer to be "bad" was making F class loads for 308. The CCI BR primers seemed to be more accurate than anything else.
Shooting short to mid range I have not seen difference on paper switching between magnum, standard and bench rest primers.
My loads are backed off from any pressure signs to the next "wide" node down.
I think bto adjustments and or a good tuner mitigate the difference to being a mute point.
Maybe it shows on a good chrono or at ELR if the equipment and shooter are at the top of the food chain.
My loads are backed off from any pressure signs to the next "wide" node down.
I think bto adjustments and or a good tuner mitigate the difference to being a mute point.
Maybe it shows on a good chrono or at ELR if the equipment and shooter are at the top of the food chain.
I've got .308 in 16,18 and 20 in varieties.
If you guys were going to attempt to use 1 powder
what would it be. Also, I have a 6.5 CM 22" along with
the usual 5.56 in assorted barrel lengths with a BA barrel
and a few BCA products.
Hope you guys/gals had a fruitful week,
Jim W.
If you guys were going to attempt to use 1 powder
what would it be. Also, I have a 6.5 CM 22" along with
the usual 5.56 in assorted barrel lengths with a BA barrel
and a few BCA products.
Hope you guys/gals had a fruitful week,
Jim W.
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How about "Shiznit hits the fan" hypothetically of course.
So we all need to hit what we're aiming at!
4895? H or IMR?
So we all need to hit what we're aiming at!
4895? H or IMR?
The question to that would be... How far away do you need to hit what you're aiming at in an SHTF scenario?
I won't be taking 1000 yards shots at bad guys in an SHTF scenario... At least not with a .308 gasser. I'll hope anyone that far away will pass me by unaware that I even exist... If they're heading in my direction I will sit and wait until they're at a range my SHTF ammo will do its work.
I know half minute guns are a confidence booster... I'm as guilty of chasing tight groups as anyone else. But for a true SHTF gun, you would likely be better off settling for a consistent less precise load that you can produce en masse.
Just a little perspective. I would actually like to see this discussed more... But not here in this thread.
Carry on!
Mike
For the fun of reaching out is one thing and I do want to do well.
SHTF . . . 1 shot 1 fall.
TAC claims accuracy in 5.56 heavy bullets and .308 match.
You guys would know more about that than I.
What's your experience with it for accuracy/precision.
It is also about 100 bucks less per 8# jug than some of the
other "precision" powders.
SHTF . . . 1 shot 1 fall.
TAC claims accuracy in 5.56 heavy bullets and .308 match.
You guys would know more about that than I.
What's your experience with it for accuracy/precision.
It is also about 100 bucks less per 8# jug than some of the
other "precision" powders.
So 2 of my 3 sub 1/2 inch 223 loads are using a dillon. Granted I have to work pockets on range brass etc. before putting it on the dillon.
Not to come off as a dillon fan boy I belive other progressive preses can do it as well.
You can buy 1 1/2 inch crap off the shelf.
You can half that moa with care and sweat labor for the same price.
Try some other bullets and see how good your skills really are.
If price is the determining factor then 1 1/2 moa I guess is gtg?
I've shot some pretty small groups with the Hornady 150 fmj's... But it's difficult to do consistently. It's usually 1 to 1.5 moa.
There's just too much variation in them. They're a cheap, high volume product and probably designed to feed a 240B so accuracy isn't the primary concern.
I wanted to try the Speer 150 TMJ which is a complete jacketed bullet... No lead exposed on the base. But they're either discontinued or on hold for the time being.
I just moved on to the 155 weight class. They seem to be more consistent and you get a little better BC.
I have some test loads made up with the Hornady 155 BTHP that I was going to try at the range this morning... But I had to work this morning. I might try to go in the morning if I don't blow away in the storms tonight.
We'll see what happens.
Mike
There's just too much variation in them. They're a cheap, high volume product and probably designed to feed a 240B so accuracy isn't the primary concern.
I wanted to try the Speer 150 TMJ which is a complete jacketed bullet... No lead exposed on the base. But they're either discontinued or on hold for the time being.
I just moved on to the 155 weight class. They seem to be more consistent and you get a little better BC.
I have some test loads made up with the Hornady 155 BTHP that I was going to try at the range this morning... But I had to work this morning. I might try to go in the morning if I don't blow away in the storms tonight.
We'll see what happens.
Mike
Been hit'n the gonja again there Ol' boy . . . enjoy!
A plan . . . from the sounds of it, seems most around here DO have a plan.
Remember what they said about the "cover".
Move'n on . . .
I’ve tried many bullets in my AR10. Off the top of my head 147 fiocci fmj, 150 hornady fmj, 150 Speer hotcor, 155CC, 165 hornady interlock, 168CC, 168 horn BTHP 168 eldm, 175SMK, and 178 eldm. Probably missing a couple.
My best groups are with the 168CC, and the best overall performer is the 168 eldm, so that’s what I shoot. But if someone asks about a bullet I have experience with, I’ll let them know.
I did a round of load development with the 150 FMJs and had a sub Moa load. It was clear they weren’t a top performer, so I loaded the rest of the box at the best charge and used them for practice. My experience with them is what it is. They aren’t match grade, but decent enough for practice ammo, and you can probably get them to shoot as good as any factory ammo with some load development. As opposed the the 147 fiocci, I have 950 I don’t even care to load because at 4 MOA you can’t even tell if you’re “doing your part”.
