308 Winchester AR Only

[Snuby642]

I’ve tried many bullets in my AR10. Off the top of my head 147 fiocci fmj, 150 hornady fmj, 150 Speer hotcor, 155CC, 165 hornady interlock, 168CC, 168 horn BTHP 168 eldm, 175SMK, and 178 eldm. Probably missing a couple.

My best groups are with the 168CC, and the best overall performer is the 168 eldm, so that’s what I shoot. But if someone asks about a bullet I have experience with, I’ll let them know.

I did a round of load development with the 150 FMJs and had a sub Moa load. It was clear they weren’t a top performer, so I loaded the rest of the box at the best charge and used them for practice. My experience with them is what it is. They aren’t match grade, but decent enough for practice ammo, and you can probably get them to shoot as good as any factory ammo with some load development. As opposed the the 147 fiocci, I have 950 I don’t even care to load because at 4 MOA you can’t even tell if you’re “doing your part”.

Well that's not good, maybe you have a worn out or sub par barrel.

We use 168g smk gmm as a standard to go by. The factory rounds are a known benchmark.

They also load easily with varget and are fairly jump tolerant.
If it won't shoot that I would consider a new barrel.

Also since you have a collection of different ammo you may want to consider an E C Tuner Brake.

I never knew an ar could shoot 1/2 inch groups with me driving.

It may not take all the slop out of store bought but it will make a eisily measurable difference .

 

[FredHammer]

Well that's not good, maybe you have a worn out or sub par barrel.

We use 168g smk gmm as a standard to go by. The factory rounds are a known benchmark.

They also load easily with varget and are fairly jump tolerant.
If it won't shoot that I would consider a new barrel.

Also since you have a collection of different ammo you may want to consider an E C Tuner Brake.

I never knew an ar could shoot 1/2 inch groups with me driving.

It may not take all the slop out of store bought but it will make a eisily measurable difference .

Presently a hell of a deal on an EC tuner brake in the classifieds too, .

 

[FredHammer]

Barrel: 20" Ballistic Advantage Bull 1/10T (.930 at muzzle, SA Adj gas block)
Bullet: 168 Amax
COAL: 2.800
Powder: AA2520 @43.5gr
Case: FGMM
Primer: WLR/Fed 215
MV: 2650fps
Ele: 750ft
Temp: 70 F.
Groups at various temps:

Barrel: 20" Ballistic Advantage Bull 1/10T (.930 at muzzle, SA Adj gas block)
Bullet: 137 Hammer Hunter
COAL: 2.760
Powder: AA2520 @49.5gr
Case: FGMM
Primer: WLR/Fed 215
MV: 2970fps
Ele: 750ft
Group: 13 shots

 

[Haney]

Barrel: 20" Ballistic Advantage Bull 1/10T (.930 at muzzle, SA Adj gas block)
Bullet: 168 Amax
COAL: 2.800
Powder: AA2520 @43.5gr
Case: FGMM
Primer: WLR/Fed 215
MV: 2650fps
Ele: 750ft
Temp: 70 F.
Groups at various temps:
View attachment 8234295
View attachment 8234296
View attachment 8234297
Barrel: 20" Ballistic Advantage Bull 1/10T (.930 at muzzle, SA Adj gas block)
Bullet: 137 Hammer Hunter
COAL: 2.760
Powder: AA2520 @49.5gr
Case: FGMM
Primer: WLR/Fed 215
MV: 2970fps
Ele: 750ft
Group: 13 shots
View attachment 8234299

Don't you have somewhere to shoot at a target beyond 100 yards ?

 

[FredHammer]

Don't you have somewhere to shoot at a target beyond 100 yards ?

You know I do. This is a load development thread. You have any AR308 load data to contribute?

 

[Old Corps 8541]

You know I do. This is a load development thread. You have any AR308 load data to contribute?

All these were shot at 300 yds from an AR10T that was re barreled with a 26" Shilen 1-12 T .930 @the muzzle . All the NCC & SMK bullets were "blems" either from Noslers Pro shop or Powder Valley.

 

[FredHammer]

All these were shot at 300 yds from an AR10T that was re barreled with a 26" Shilen 1-12 T .930 @the muzzle . All the NCC & SMK bullets were "blems" either from Noslers Pro shop or Powder Valley.

Good trigger work. Can you detail your load data?

 

[Badmonkey]

Well that's not good, maybe you have a worn out or sub par barrel.

We use 168g smk gmm as a standard to go by. The factory rounds are a known benchmark.

They also load easily with varget and are fairly jump tolerant.
If it won't shoot that I would consider a new barrel.

Also since you have a collection of different ammo you may want to consider an E C Tuner Brake.

I never knew an ar could shoot 1/2 inch groups with me driving.

It may not take all the slop out of store bought but it will make a eisily measurable difference .

I was able to shoot sub MOA groups with every bullet except for the 147 fmj, so I think my barrel is fine. The 168 custom competition are very similar to the 168 smk and were the best shooters for me. Averages just over 1/2 Moa. Ive switched to the 168eldm. It shoots closer to 3/4 MOA, but I seem to get much more consistent hits down range.

And the tuner brakes are intriguing, but I run suppressed. Whatever extra accuracy I could squeeze out with a tuner isn’t worth the noise for me.

 

[Badmonkey]

Edit-double post

 

[Old Corps 8541]

Good trigger work. Can you detail your load data?

Powder & wt. plus bullet are listed, using 1x LCLR brass and fed. 210's.

 

[welditforyou]

A plan, man. Like, "I'm looking for a do it all powder that is easy to find and people don't want to rip you off over", or , "I'm going for pure precision and I'm loading for longer range stuff so temp stability is a must", or "I've got 2000 147gr FMJs I'm looking to load and want something that's economical and meters like goose shit". You know, some actually idea of what you're looking for? Saying you're loading for SHTF just tells me you fantasize about being Rick Grimes. Does that mean high volume blaster? Does it mean progressive loading 155's for bulk accuracy? Or does it mean single loading one round at a time while marking people off your hit list in-between refreshing your lipstick?

Fuck it. Try some Varget. I heard it works well in 308.

Oh crap . . . I thought you were talking about a plan for swiznit hits the fan.
SORRY! I think we've all thought about what's coming at us in regard to that.
Move'n on . . .
This reloading thing is a lot to take in. Sort of like the drinking from a fire hose scenario.
With such a wide variety of powders to choose from, we could spend big bucks on them
until we found something that works for us the way we want it too. Thankfully we have a
forum like this to ask questions in and get answers from those who have been there done that.
You guys talk about how great Varget is. It is a little easier to find today and I will try some.
For primers to go with the powder. Now that is a different story today. LR primers are now just
as hard to find as Varget was last year. One fella here commented about what good results he
gets using TAC. I have a jug of that too. Just trying to keep supplies to as much of minimum as
I can without compromising too much accuracy. So for me to have a couple options of powder
on hand I can live with. I don't want a dozen different powders on my bench. I listen to what
you guys say in regard to your results of a given product. I think Varget and TAC will get me going
for a while. Thank you guys for your input!


Jim

 

[welditforyou]

Classic Firearms has Igman 147gr .308 for $700 for 1000rds.
Do any of you have experience with this.
What are your thoughts.


Thanks,
Jim

 

[Badmonkey]

I don't have experience with that particular ammo, but I would say if you do not have accuracy expectations and are just looking for inexpensive blaster ammo it should be fine.

 

[GhostFace]

I agree with BM, it's just ball ammo. You'll be lucky to get 2 MOA out of it. Real lucky...

It looks like .308 ball is on the up swing again at .90 CPR. So I'd say grab it now if you're wanting it.

 

[TicTacTex]

Classic Firearms has Igman 147gr .308 for $700 for 1000rds.
Do any of you have experience with this.
What are your thoughts.


Thanks,
Jim

I’d personally buy this stuff before Igman.

Bullets 1st 7.62x51 NATO M80 - 400 ct.

www.theamericanmarksman.com

 

[welditforyou]

While shopping for some .308 ammo, I'm seeing a suffix attached to it.
lt says .308B or .308c or d or e or whatever other characters following the caliber.
What does it mean? I did a google but didn't get a suitable answer.
Thanks!


Jim

 

[FredHammer]

While shopping for some .308 ammo, I'm seeing a suffix attached to it.
lt says .308B or .308c or d or e or whatever other characters following the caliber.
What does it mean? I did a google but didn't get a suitable answer.
Thanks!


Jim

That’s new to me. What brand of ammo has these suffix?

 

[welditforyou]

That’s new to me. What brand of ammo has these suffix?

Federal .308B and Fiocchi .308D among others.

 

[FredHammer]

Federal .308B and Fiocchi .308D among others.

They appear to just be SKU for the items and nothing to do with build/component/performance.

 

[Snuby642]

? A military required suffix to denote build data, plant identification, date ?

Something to that effect I'll bet.

 

[OkieMike]

? A military required suffix to denote build data, plant identification, date ?

Something to that effect I'll bet.

"D" is for ammo loaded at the Denver mint.



Mike

 

[welditforyou]

Here's a couple more.

Bronze Rifle 308B

PMC Bronze Rifle 308B for sale from AmmoGuy.net.

www.ammoguy.net

Power-Shok Medium Game 308A

Federal Power-Shok Medium Game 308A for sale from AmmoGuy.net.

www.ammoguy.net

 

[RDahlstrom]

Well that's not good, maybe you have a worn out or sub par barrel.

We use 168g smk gmm as a standard to go by. The factory rounds are a known benchmark.

They also load easily with varget and are fairly jump tolerant.
If it won't shoot that I would consider a new barrel.

Also since you have a collection of different ammo you may want to consider an E C Tuner Brake.

I never knew an ar could shoot 1/2 inch groups with me driving.

It may not take all the slop out of store bought but it will make a eisily measurable difference .

Any information on 150 grain SST's or even 165 grain

 

[Snuby642]

@RDahlstrom


My 165g sgk's need re-done.
They were right at 1 moa but slow.

A last minute hunting load that got loaded up enough for a season. My son dictated the load good enough make me a box got a thing gotta go.

You can use this as a reference but probably needs more powder.

CBC brass fed #210 primer
39.6g varget
BTO 2.100
Coal 2.715
Fps 2461 chrono in 20 inches 1/10 twist.

Oh I just found a reference sheet for you.

I remember the cfe223 sucked and ran out of time to finish the best for the varget.

 

[Wizard1183]

Is .304” expander ball too small?

 

[Snuby642]

It's what I use in my sizing die.

Then in a separate step I run it in a .306 mandrell.

It may sound like a useless step but works the neck in incraments and has resulted in smaller groups.

 

[OkieMike]

I may have mentioned this before but when I was cleaning the barrel on my .308 gasser a few months back I was pondering a few things, like... Why is this thing so damn slow?

I received this rifle as a Christmas present a few years ago and I could swear I was told it had an 18" barrel. Never bothered to check.

So I measured from muzzle to chamber: 16"

Things are making sense now.

So 16" x 1::10 twist.

Except in a very few "lucky" circumstances this barrel refuses to shoot 150, 155, and 168 gr bullets with any consistent groups.

Try 175's...

Starting to see improvement. Maybe go heavier just to see.

Dug around in a box of "Miscellaneous" 308 ammo I had on the shelf.

Blue box Federal 180 gr Power Shok... The cheap stuff. Or used to be.

Unbelievable. 3 shot group. Velocity was predictably low, but no ES to speak of... 2414, 2414, 2413.

It grouped well for low end factory hunting ammo... I can probably do better with handloads.

Next stop... Break open the box of 177 SMK's on the shelf and see what they do. They won't be going anywhere in a hurry but we'll see what happens.

Might even try some 185 Juggs if I can get my hands on any.

Mike

 

[BCP]

I may have mentioned this before but when I was cleaning the barrel on my .308 gasser a few months back I was pondering a few things, like... Why is this thing so damn slow?

I received this rifle as a Christmas present a few years ago and I could swear I was told it had an 18" barrel. Never bothered to check.

So I measured from muzzle to chamber: 16"

Things are making sense now.

So 16" x 1::10 twist.

Except in a very few "lucky" circumstances this barrel refuses to shoot 150, 155, and 168 gr bullets with any consistent groups.

Try 175's...

Starting to see improvement. Maybe go heavier just to see.

Dug around in a box of "Miscellaneous" 308 ammo I had on the shelf.

Blue box Federal 180 gr Power Shok... The cheap stuff. Or used to be.

Unbelievable. 3 shot group. Velocity was predictably low, but no ES to speak of... 2414, 2414, 2413.

It grouped well for low end factory hunting ammo... I can probably do better with handloads.
View attachment 8278636
Next stop... Break open the box of 177 SMK's on the shelf and see what they do. They won't be going anywhere in a hurry but we'll see what happens.

Might even try some 185 Juggs if I can get my hands on any.

Mike

What brand rifle? What barrel?

Nvm target says db10 so duamondback? Rebarrel it with a stainless criterion + matching bolt it should be dpms pattern bet it shoots better.

 

[OkieMike]

What brand rifle? What barrel?

Nvm target says db10 so duamondback? Rebarrel it with a stainless criterion + matching bolt it should be dpms pattern bet it shoots better.

Funny you should mention that... I've been looking at a Criterion for a few weeks. After today I'm ready to get one.

Last time I looked though they only had chrome lined in stock but Criterion claims it won't degrade accuracy. Profile/weight is right. The twist is right. And the price is right.

The main hitch is the bolt. I contacted DB and they said any DPMS pattern barrel (aside from Gen 2) should work in their upper... But their bolt is proprietary and actually a hybrid of Armalite and DPMS patterns. So I have to use their bolt. Not sure how that works, but that is what I was told.

Honestly, I'm ready to pull the scope, put the mil-spec trigger back in it, and sell the damned thing... and then put the money towards something else completely unrelated to any AR-10 and doesn't make me want to pull my hair out.

Mike

 

[Mike_in_FL]

Funny you should mention that... I've been looking at a Criterion for a few weeks. After today I'm ready to get one.

Last time I looked though they only had chrome lined in stock but Criterion claims it won't degrade accuracy. Profile/weight is right. The twist is right. And the price is right.

The main hitch is the bolt. I contacted DB and they said any DPMS pattern barrel (aside from Gen 2) should work in their upper... But their bolt is proprietary and actually a hybrid of Armalite and DPMS patterns. So I have to use their bolt. Not sure how that works, but that is what I was told.

Honestly, I'm ready to pull the scope, put the mil-spec trigger back in it, and sell the damned thing... and then put the money towards something else completely unrelated to any AR-10 and doesn't make me want to pull my hair out.

Mike

I'd look at x-caliber barrels as well. Pretty sure they're on sale for BF, 20% off.

EDIT: I'm pretty sure you could send x-caliber your bolt and have it headspaced to the barrel. It would be worth asking about if you went with them.

 

[BCP]

Funny you should mention that... I've been looking at a Criterion for a few weeks. After today I'm ready to get one.

Last time I looked though they only had chrome lined in stock but Criterion claims it won't degrade accuracy. Profile/weight is right. The twist is right. And the price is right.

The main hitch is the bolt. I contacted DB and they said any DPMS pattern barrel (aside from Gen 2) should work in their upper... But their bolt is proprietary and actually a hybrid of Armalite and DPMS patterns. So I have to use their bolt. Not sure how that works, but that is what I was told.

Honestly, I'm ready to pull the scope, put the mil-spec trigger back in it, and sell the damned thing... and then put the money towards something else completely unrelated to any AR-10 and doesn't make me want to pull my hair out.

Mike

Fulton armory will sell a criterion barrel with headspaced bolt get a gas tube as well. Double check that Diamondback is DPMS though.

I would go stainless unless weight is a big thing.

Selling it and buying a quality weapon is always a good option.

 

[Snuby642]

Proprietary ar parts.

Messy rabbit hole.

 

[OkieMike]

Well, I sold it.

It can be someone else's plinker, problem, or pet project now.

Now I get to decide what to put the money towards.

Mike

 

[Old Corps 8541]

Proprietary ar parts.

Messy rabbit hole.

Yep, everything out there is for DPMS patterns, so if you have an RRA or Armalite, you deal with them , oh well, live and learn.

 

[nickw]

Hey there- Wondering what your reloading process is for your JP LRP-07 / gasser in .308?

I’m an experienced reloader but have not loaded .308 for a JP / gas gun.

JP recommends a small base die. I know some don‘t use sb dies, but if you do are you using a FL or body small base die? If FL SB die, which small base die and how much does it bump the shoulder and what are you running for neck tension?

If only using a body SB die, are you using a neck bushing resizing die after the body die to set the neck tension? Are you using a mandrel?

Appreciate the help.

 

[R.STOCKFISCH]

I’m full length sizing. I neck tension only for my bolt gun.

 

[PusherX11]

Get yourself one of these from Jp. It’s your chamber. Fired cases will not fit in the case gauge, after sizing they fall out. I run Redding type s f/l small base bushing die with .335 bushing for 3k neck tension on lapua brass. Never had any issues.

 

[nickw]

View attachment 8338044
Get yourself one of these from Jp. It’s your chamber. Fired cases will not fit in the case gauge, after sizing they fall out. I run Redding type s f/l small base bushing die with .335 bushing for 3k neck tension on lapua brass. Never had any issues.

Perfect. I ordered one. Thanks for the info.

 

[Thumper580]

Shipping list of M118LR shows load data !

I tried that load in my bolt gun. It was made to be a consistent 1" load. It does that consistently. 1" over and over.

 

[rdinak]

Anyone have a pet load using 190 SMK for the AR10? Double bonus for loads using RL15, Varget or VV N140

 

[JR1200W3]

Anyone have a pet load using 190 SMK for the AR10? Double bonus for loads using RL15, Varget or VV N140

What kind of magazine are you feeding that out of? 2.820 COAL limitation ? Or is the ogive on that bullet gentle enough that it can be shoved way down in the case and still have bearing surface exposed?

 

[BCP]

Anyone have a pet load using 190 SMK for the AR10? Double bonus for loads using RL15, Varget or VV N140

I wanna say 41.5 varget LC brass 2.820 for 190 nosler. My 180gr hunting load is the same charge but much shorter around 2.78. With a 175smk 2.80.

 

[rdinak]

Feeding out of Magpul mags

 

[BigBlastin300win]

Anyone have a pet load for 178 eldm/x with imr 4064? Using starline lrp fed210. Had a great shooting load at 39.5gr. But ran out of powder started testing with new batch of powder and it is slow and not grouping well.

 

[JR1200W3]

Anyone have a pet load for 178 eldm/x with imr 4064? Using starline lrp fed210. Had a great shooting load at 39.5gr. But ran out of powder started testing with new batch of powder and it is slow and not grouping well.

What part of the country do you live in?

Edit: just saw in your signature that you're from Idaho. Pour your powder out into a turkey or baking tin for 48 to 72 hours and then pour it back into the jug. It will lose moisture content and the powder will speed up. The difference in moisture content is why you're getting different velocities from different lots. For those of us that live out west in low humidity areas, we are always going to experience a large difference in a new jug of powder from what we've been using. I acclimate all my powder by exposing it for a couple days to the low humidity.

 

[BCP]

Anyone have a pet load for 178 eldm/x with imr 4064? Using starline lrp fed210. Had a great shooting load at 39.5gr. But ran out of powder started testing with new batch of powder and it is slow and not grouping well.

I would do a workup from 42-43 in .3gr increments if you don't find a load I'd be surprised.

 

[GhostFace]

42.2 was a sweet spot for my rifle.

 

[Old Corps 8541]

Good trigger work. Can you detail your load data?

Forgot the details, B = Norma 203 B, 140 = VVN 140, brass = LCLR with Fed 210 primers.

 

[BigBlastin300win]

Thanks this is a great point i usually try to leave the lid open on them for a couple days down in the reloading room. But i grabbed a turkey pan and threw all 3lbs i had that were fresh. Looks like 18% outside and 22% humidity inside in the basement. Just watched a youtube on Litz talking about the same thing you brought up.
Ghostface and BCP thank you as well. I am going to see if this speeds things up or not. I ran up to 41.5 grains of 4064(2450fps 20" BA areo m5) last outing and it seemed like it was getting hot but not flattened or cratered primers. Im guessing 42-42.5 will be my max feels weird running super hot loads out a gas gun. Seems like all the fed FMM, m118 loads all run hot. Seems like for a 20" i should be looking at 2550fps for a 178. which feels fast to me. But I have be loading off the 308 service manual section.

 

[Jerrydaniels]

Stock psa ar 10 1 in 10 twist
Vortex tactical 1st plane
I went through alot of 7.62x51 ammo and 308. I got a box of horaday 168 gr. A max match.
It shot them at Round 1/2 inch at 100 yards I was impressed.
So, I lapped the bore using lead plug. It was tight at the gas block. Went back and shot 5 more of the a max one hole at 100 yards . So, I set out to figure out the powder they used. After a year I found it in a old reloading book .

168 gr.a max
Hornaday brass
2.8 oal
42 gr. 3031
2800 fps