A good friend swears it is the same as CFE223, just without the copper eraser.Anyone have any experience using Leverevolution in 5.56?
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A good friend swears it is the same as CFE223, just without the copper eraser.Anyone have any experience using Leverevolution in 5.56?
Sounds like a cool gun. Ive never loaded any AA powder but have been eyeing it since its been available here and there. Best thing to do is grab some Sierra Matchkings and try it. Ive just started experimenting with TAC myself. Good velocity so far. Any idea if your chamber is 223, 556 or 223 wylde? What twist?Having recently acquired a Stag AR with a heavy 24" bbl. I've read every post here and it seams that the two powders most used are TAC & XBR with 77 gn bullets. I was hoping more that one member was using AA 2520 as I picked up 8# at an estate sale.
It seams that the AR / semi Auto community doesn't think much of my Stag AR. Probably because it didn't cost 3 bushels full of $$$$.
It seams the TAC users are crowding the 24.8 gn. MAX of 62,000 psi according to the Western Powder Co. data
It's a good ball powder. Years ago I cranked out 2000 rounds of 55 FMJ ammo with it, and it all shot fine. It's on the fast side so it works well with 40-60 grain bullets.Only AA rifle powder I have is 2230,have'nt tried it yet.Not sure what gr operates best with it....
8208 will give you the best temp stability, and is a good choice with 77s expect 2700ish FPS out of a 16”Any of you loading 77 OTMs for a 16" gas gun? With everything being what it is I don't have much for powder choices. I have 8208XBR, CFE223, Benchmark, and Varget. Are any of these worth trying or should I wait until I can find a different powder?
I want a good balance between velocity and temp stability. This gun will get shot from negative Temps to 100F. CFE will likely give me the velocity I want but I have had poor accuracy with it in the past.
Awesome thanks I'll give it a try. I haven't used 8208 in the .223 but it's my go to for the Grendel gas guns. If it works that would be awesome. I have been trying to get all of my guns shooting the same powders.. makes shopping easier.8208 will give you the best temp stability, and is a good choice with 77s expect 2700ish FPS out of a 16”
Cfe223 is good too and gave me more speed than 8208, accuracy was good but needs to be loaded close to full case full to keep es/ed from getting too high. Also cfe will be temp sensitive.
8208 is your answer. Or sell it all to me.
I don't even do load development for 77's anymore. 23.4gr of 8208 seems to shoot well in any barrel capable of shooting well.Any of you loading 77 OTMs for a 16" gas gun? With everything being what it is I don't have much for powder choices. I have 8208XBR, CFE223, Benchmark, and Varget. Are any of these worth trying or should I wait until I can find a different powder?
I want a good balance between velocity and temp stability. This gun will get shot from negative Temps to 100F. CFE will likely give me the velocity I want but I have had poor accuracy with it in the past.
I don't even do load development for 77's anymore. 23.4gr of 8208 seems to shoot well in any barrel capable of shooting well.
I’m at 23.6gr of 8208 under a 77gr TMK and even use it in a suppressed 10.3” AR
Here are my results from Thursday from a suppressed 10.5" bear creek bbl. Chrony was 5' from muzzle. One group with cci-450's, all else with cci-400's. Curious to see the 400 had higher velocity than the 450's. Shooting 77tmk from WW brass. I calculated SD and #Ke at the bottom of the page too.Any idea what kind of velocity you are seeing in the shorty?
Awesome thanks! That's faster than I anticipated.Here are my results from Thursday from a suppressed 10.5" bear creek bbl. Chrony was 5' from muzzle. One group with cci-450's, all else with cci-400's. Curious to see the 400 had higher velocity than the 450's. Shooting 77tmk from WW brass. I calculated SD and #Ke at the bottom of the page too.
Hello, yes, a lot, I have thousands. Here are some guidelines:Anyone have experience with starline 556 brass. I generally use 77 smk with 23.0 8208, i get mild pressure at 23.2 and 23.4 in LC19 and this starline stuff is thicker and heavier. Just wondering if anyone has any experience.
Very detailed, i sincerely appreciate it.Hello, yes, a lot, I have thousands. Here are some guidelines:
Starline 556 stamped brass is similar to Lapua, or Nammo Brass in terms of its case capacity. Starline 556 brass is a "middle weight" 223 brass that is in the ~96 grains per case (bare case, no primer) ballpark. This is similar to the many thousand Lapua and Nammo I have, which range from 94-98 grains, which is standard for 223 brass. Lighter brass is like some Federal versions, Hornady, and the lightest I found is NORMA, which is 90 grains per case, and has larger case capacity. I do think that Starline 556 brass has "slightly less" case capacity than your LC19 brass, and is probably 2-4 grains HEAVIER. Guessing like 95-97 grains versus the LC might be 91-93?
Now...
Starline 223 stamped brass is TOTALLY different than Starline 556 stamped brass. Starline 223 brass weighs from 101-103 grains and has the lowest case capacity of any 223 I have (many, many brands).
Starline 223 in your example, would shoot similar velocity to your 23 grains of XBR 8208, using probably 22 grains or so.
Starline 556 brass is currently my favorite brand of brass, along with Lapua and Nosler. Starline 556 brass should be in the "Ballpark" with book loads, while Starline 223 is about 1 grain less to get same result as book loads.
This is a rule of thumb when using these two.
Here is an example of carefully made rounds, with different brass brands. You can see 50 FPS difference with these brands, but Starline 223 would be more like over 100-150 FPS difference from lowest. Way higher pressure. (This was measured with 7 shot groups at 100 yards. 7 MOA means all 7 shots accounted for, 6 MOA means best 6/7 shots, and 5 MOA means best 5 of 7 shots considered)
I hope this helps you.
Hello, yes, a lot, I have thousands. Here are some guidelines:
Starline 556 stamped brass is similar to Lapua, or Nammo Brass in terms of its case capacity. Starline 556 brass is a "middle weight" 223 brass that is in the ~96 grains per case (bare case, no primer) ballpark. This is similar to the many thousand Lapua and Nammo I have, which range from 94-98 grains, which is standard for 223 brass. Lighter brass is like some Federal versions, Hornady, and the lightest I found is NORMA, which is 90 grains per case, and has larger case capacity. I do think that Starline 556 brass has "slightly less" case capacity than your LC19 brass, and is probably 2-4 grains HEAVIER. Guessing like 95-97 grains versus the LC might be 91-93?
Now...
Starline 223 stamped brass is TOTALLY different than Starline 556 stamped brass. Starline 223 brass weighs from 101-103 grains and has the lowest case capacity of any 223 I have (many, many brands).
Starline 223 in your example, would shoot similar velocity to your 23 grains of XBR 8208, using probably 22 grains or so.
Starline 556 brass is currently my favorite brand of brass, along with Lapua and Nosler. Starline 556 brass should be in the "Ballpark" with book loads, while Starline 223 is about 1 grain less to get same result as book loads.
This is a rule of thumb when using these two.
Here is an example of carefully made rounds, with different brass brands. You can see 50 FPS difference with these brands, but Starline 223 would be more like over 100-150 FPS difference from lowest. Way higher pressure. (This was measured with 7 shot groups at 100 yards. 7 MOA means all 7 shots accounted for, 6 MOA means best 6/7 shots, and 5 MOA means best 5 of 7 shots considered)
I hope this helps you.
Any idea what kind of velocity you are seeing in the shorty?
Lets see, I have 2 different lots, total of about 6,000 Starline 5.56 brass (new) and I have 2 different lots of Starline 223 brass, for about 2000 total.I have seen folks do case capacity tests with fired brass vs. unfired brass. This is a bad idea.
Here is a link to Starline's website and their take on the different case capacities between 223 REM and 5.56 brass
Grains | Avg FPS | Std Dev | ES | Group |
23.7 | 2764 | 28 | 75 | 1.294 |
24.4 | 2865 | 14 | 41 | 0.95 |
25.1 | 2956 | 16 | 48 | 0.976 |
25.5 | 2997 | 50 | 125 | 1.119 |
25.8 | 3069 | 56 | 152 | 1.2 |
Grains | Avg FPS | Std Dev | ES | Group |
22.6 | 2589 | 13 | 37 | 0.855 |
22.8 | 2610 | 18 | 45 | 0.689 |
23 | 2180 | 59 | 137 | |
23.2 | 2585 | 20 | 48 | |
23.4 | 2691 | 39 | 109 |
By no means claiming that it’s magical, but this is Magnetospeed data from 3 different factory loaded 77’s, including 77 TMK. Well, one pic cause three seemed excessive. Brass from the 2,600 load looks absolutely fine.
.003-.004 bump is perfect. If you keep your chamber clean all the time .003 would be preferred.
2,660fps + "could be" too hot out of a 15 inch barrel. I suppose it "could be" that your barrel is very special and is just plain fast.
@Desert_Racer Man I have some of that IMI 77 razor core that is just absolutely insanely over loaded. Tried it in a 18” rifle gas gun and a 10.3” carbine gas gun. Way too dangerous to run in anything.@OzzyO20 I’m running the same load in the same barrel, with the same chamber. It’s in the upper end of what I would say is acceptable pressure wise for that chamber, but still ok. My velocity is within about 20FPS of yours. Shoots great and the brass doesn’t seem too bad. Flat primers, but ejector swipes are light to non-existent. I swapped to an LMT enhanced bolt carrier and an H3 buffer, and that seemed to help the brass come out in better condition.
For the record, IMI 77gr Razor core out of the same barrel seems a touch hotter and the brass looks worse.
The gas port on that barrel is WAY too big, so if you aren’t running an adjustable gas block or something like that, you’re going to have issues. It’s a 0.82” gas port. I’m running a BRT Gas tube with a 0.76” port, so the gun will run both suppressed and Unsuppressed.
Anyone have any experience using Leverevolution in 5.56?
Anyone try either the Nosler 70 or 77gr RDF in an AR? Not sure if the 77 would fit in the mag but numbers look good on both. The 70 has a little bit better BC than the 77 smk, so that going a little faster could be nice.
Yes. Don't waste your time, there's a reason RDF is said to mean Random Damn Flyer.Anyone try either the Nosler 70 or 77gr RDF in an AR? Not sure if the 77 would fit in the mag but numbers look good on both. The 70 has a little bit better BC than the 77 smk, so that going a little faster could be nice.
I kind of figured that. My experience with Noslers hasn't been great but I have had some luck with the 175 gr Custom Comps in 308. I always end up back with Sierra though. Seem more consistent than Hornady or Nosler stuff. Marketing and hype is easy to fall for sometimes. Although I have heard some people have lucl with the RDFs. If I see a box of 100 on sale I might give them a try but thats it.Yes. Don't waste your time, there's a reason RDF is said to mean Random Damn Flyer.
For every sub moa group I had the next one would be 3 moa, for every .5" four shots the fifth would be 2" away. It was so frustrating to catch glimpses of great potential but never get any consistency. The 77's shot better than the 70's on average, and at distance the BC seemed close except every couple rounds a bullet would sail one county over from the target. 77's are mag length compatible too.
Asking for a friend new to reloading and I’m not familiar with gas gun loading.
77gr bthp noslers
24.2 varget
2671 FPS out of a 14.5” barrel
Seems hot to me but maybe ok?
I would just go with the RMR 69gr bthp. $.14 a bullet shoots way better than the bull 55gr or 62gr stuffFor a bulk plinking load should I go 55gr or 62? I'm leaning towards 62 for the slight edge in BC but I don't think it makes a ton of difference. I've never loaded anything in 223 light than 75gr. Suggestions for powder? I would like something that cleans up easy.
I would just go with the RMR 69gr bthp. $.14 a bullet shoots way better than the bull 55gr or 62gr stuff
As for powder I like TAC or 2520
14.3 cents per bullet if you buy 30,000..... 15.1cents if you buy 1000
You want extremely accurate bullets at the price of bulk plinking trash?? Isnt a better deal out there than American Reloading's 55 SMK's @ 13.2cents per bullet per 500....And they shoot lights out too. Im loading them with bulk military powder from American reloading as well.... They have 8lb jugs of powder, free shipping and free hazmat, same goes for primers... Hard to beat for plinking ammo that is very accurate. Want to step it up, they have 69 SMK for 13.9 cents per bullet per 500... Ive been shooting these for years from them, some are mixed lots, some are pulls, but the target cant tell for me.
Here's some recent load development in my WOA Bartlein 20" 1-7 AR with American Reloading powder (N133) and their 52SMK....
Padom, try this one next from American Reloading
MP 540 American Reloading
That is the stick powder, that the website says is for 308. But in 223, its similar to N140, and great.
Just got back from shooting this N133/52SMK OCW and its shot great. Excellent accuracy and velocity.
20" White Oak Precision
Bartlein 4G 1:7
223 Wylde