5000 meters+ Supersonic (*Updated with pics*)

[saojao]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

Dale has already said he will build the suppressor...wrong again, but i guess you and Chad know more than i do about my OWN project or business dealings with Dale, and Elite Iron.
THIS BRAKE WAS A ONE OFF CUSTOM S PECIFICALLY FOR MY ROUND.

 

[TiroFijo]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: saojao</div><div class="ubbcode-body">XLR for the chassis. We are working on incorporating a nitro piston into the chassis design. </div></div>

When looking at the McMillan stock with shock absorber, it impressed me how much the gun recoils back and how little room for error is there to avoid eye injuries. Are you going to use a similar design (carefully calibrated) or are you going to have a non retracting stock and put the piston inside the chassis, so that the action slides inside but the scope does not move?

 

[Noel Carlson]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

This brake is not even within spec for a 14.5 Russian.

 

[mtnhntr]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

Just curious,looking at your print for the brake why are you sending a 20mm through a hole that is .677 diameter?

 

[C.K]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

Jon

For the heads up Steve and I are friends of Dale's. Dale called me yearerday afternoon and told me what was going on. I tried to give him my login and password but the forum wouldn't do it, so he asked me to post.(Until that call your or noel's names ever came up before, he adked for my opinion and I gave it. As I would do for anybody I consider a friend) I had the same response that Steve had written before I took my son out coyote hunting. Saw steve already posted it after I submited mine and deleated it. The lol wasn't a rip on you it was for steve. That brake you have is for a 14.5R and was designed to work within those presures. Maybe he thought a you were necking up a 14.5 I don't know but he had know Idea you were using a cannon round.

 

[bowstryder]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

Steve and Chad, with respect, this should have been an issue to call Jon on or have your friend Dale call personally. That's not a firestorm that should start up on an open public thread. I cannot say anything for Dale, simply because I don't know him. But I would be PISSED off if someone just came up with a "sorry about your luck, but the (manufacturer) can not and will not do......" well you get the picture. Again, try to keep the personal items a bit more not in the public eye.
I know Jon quite well, and he has busted his ass, spent a ton of cash, and dealt with naysayers/recliner snipers to have his fill. Yes, this build is ground up and a lot of R&D and trial and error are expected. But busting balls is unnecessary.
-Bow

 

[ELR researcher]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

mtnhntr:

Jon's projectile is 14.9mm (approx .587), not 20mm. See my post further up the page on the cartridge pictured in the loading press - which is not what Jon has designed.

 

[mtnhntr]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

Ok I see Thanks

 

[apricot]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

1 word = insane! but maybe a rich mans fun desert toy... i will keep my lapua.

 

[ELR researcher]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

Wood Chuck:

Thanks for the lead in...

**************

Saojao was kind enough to give me a call regarding the “muzzle brake”. He was also kind enough to allow me to post what follows:

1. The drawing at the end of the photos is a drawing done by John Buhay of Ordnance Research – a drawing of the brake actually received from Dale. It is NOT saojao’s “design”, only what Dale developed and produced to manage the rifle/cartridge “spec” saojoa provided.

2. Saojao’s “design” was a spec of what the cartridge/projectile would present to the brake, as in detailed projectile spec, expected pressure levels, velocities, etc., NOT physical parameters like length, diameter, etc (other than barrel threading info to match up with Boots’ barrel). Anthony (GSC) worked closely with saojoa on the “spec”.

3. Boots’ barrel threading perfectly matched Boots’ design – the only physical part of the spec which had been communicated to Dale.

4. Saojao has placed at least five (5) calls to Dale to find out what’s going on – no reply.

5. IMPORTANT – Saojoa has near term commitments to provide preliminary demos of the rifle/cartridge/system and therefore is moving ahead on discussions with two other brake suppliers to meet his demo requirements.

6. IMPORTANT – [this may be old news to those following this and associated threads since the beginning] Saojao is NOT a guy with some loose change in his jeans that just wants the biggest and baddest one-off. In fact (blew my mind), he has a LOT of major companies involved in the development process and “taking it from there”. Saojao is ACTIVELY in the process of setting up a company to go forward. Bottom line: This is NOT a one-off day dream.

Saojao shared some more about the actual “cartridge” design – my conclusion: IMHO, this cartridge (cartridge system) is NOTHING like what has ever been produced for commercial consumption. Frankly, well beyond incredible. The GSC projectile is the closest piece to being “off-the-shelf”. WOW!

 

[apricot]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

cant we all just get along?? it is the very reason i primarily read and rarely post here!!!! too many ego's!!! come on now!

 

[apricot]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

dont get me wrong here man! that thing is very impressive! but im not so sure how practical it could be... all im sayin.

 

[goober]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

Awesome and good luck to him. You guys that said Dale's a no go on this should learn a little more diplomacy!

 

[saojao]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

I just want to say Dale is a stand up guy. I'm sure between the "middle man" we are just having a communication breakdown somewhere. I did call him a bunch of times today, but I know he is busy running his shop. I hope to hear from him tomorrow.

Secondly I'd like to point out for the millionth time...this is a *TEST PLATFORM* I really could care less about the current setup. I'm more concerned with cartridge performance! Of couse the barreled action you see above is not practical! I over built the hell out of it on purpose.

 

[Whit]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

I still think it bad a** looking.

 

[USMC0331]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

Awesome!

 

[raider1v1]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic (*Updated with pics*)

wow the amount of work that im sure has went into this is crazy. im really looking forward to seeing this thing when its finially finished!

 

[Arbiter]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic (*Updated with pics*)

 

[Ol' RD]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic (*Updated with pics*)

Okay, after dutifully reading 14 pages on this beast. I am struck with the fact that nothing has changed in 20+ years. Being a squid the heaviest thing I toted was the 60. The ship being 563' long an 55' cross, it wasn't a bad gig. Being in the group that was converted from FTM and FTG to FC firecontrolmen. My motto was "F**k The Gun! Fire The Missile!" I pity the poor albeit highly motivated grunt that's gotta hump that sucker. Frank your first post was spot on bro. Although Big Joes was the funnest!

 

[allwheeldriven]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic (*Updated with pics*)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Robot Doc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Okay, after dutifully reading 14 pages on this beast. I am struck with the fact that nothing has changed in 20+ years. Being a squid the heaviest thing I toted was the 60. The ship being 563' long an 55' cross, it wasn't a bad gig. Being in the group that was converted from FTM and FTG to FC firecontrolmen. My motto was "F**k The Gun! Fire The Missile!" I pity the poor albeit highly motivated grunt that's gotta hump that sucker. Frank your first post was spot on bro. Although Big Joes was the funnest! </div></div>
I gotta think carrying this is going to be a two man job. Just judging from the way that thing makes the mill it’s sitting on look tiny, I’d say this thing is going to be a monster. That, or it’s going to be placed in a location that it isn’t going to be moved around much.
A guard post might be a nice place to plant one of these, stopping a truck that is rampaging past a barricade and such. I honestly keep checking back on this post every week or so just to see what’s going on with it. I really want to see it hit something.
Hell, even if the military or a contractor doesn’t pick this thing up it could have a life as an attraction. I’d go to something like an air show just to see this thing light something up or better yet, give people a chance to shoot it.
Kudos to the guy making this thing happen though. It’s beyond a doubt the most interesting project anyone’s posting about on the gun forums I read.

 

[saojao]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic (*Updated with pics*)

Really the barreled action is a test platform in which to test the cartridges performance. In no way is this the final product. Just a means to an end.

 

[Apex Motorsports]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

If you could actually place rounds on target at such ranges. It would decrease the cost of weapon systems. Those arty rounds aren't free. And any time you can deliver munitions at a greater distance that is bonus. Keep in mine the M82 isn't designed as primarily anti personal, it's a Special Applications Scoped Weapon. Meaning it's used for anti material and anti personal as targets of opportunity. If you can ground a couple jets at 5 bucks a round, or shatter the engine block of the target vehicle to immobilize them for the assault team... It's all gravy.

Engaging a rifleman at 2000 meters is always better than engaging the same rifleman at 50... Suppressing a tank commander at 2500 meters where it's harder to see your signature at that distance vs 800 with a 308..

I am all for weapon systems that increase warfighter survivability..

 

[Wannashootit]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

Can't argue with common sense.

But the question that came to my mind is, why not before?

I may have missed a lot in trying to get a handle on all the info in this thread (tried to move quickly past any BS and just gather info), but to my <span style="font-weight: bold">very</span> novice eyes, as interesting as it is it just looks to me like a "bigger" gun...

Notwithstanding the incalculable number of brain cells that must have been/are being burned in doing the engineering and during the build process- is there anything I missed in the "system" that makes it unique- and if not, why would this not have been done previously? Cost prohibitive? Is it replicating in whole/part any existing weapon system?

While I think we all would agree that there is a very limited commercial market (but, there is one- we all know some guys just gotta have the biggest/baddest, and that's OK...), I would think the military applications are apparent.

I know next to nothing about combat, but sure seems that engaging the target, at a distance where he can't engage you, is a no-brainer....

 

[bowstryder]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

A little clarification AGAIN..... yes the belle of the ball seems to be the monstrosity of the rifle being built, however, Jon is doing this "cannon" just to show of his cartridge that he came up with. The ballistics are just so freaking astounding that if given an accurate platform would change base defense and possibly "hard mounted" systems on armored vehicles. The 14.9 ops is one of those "what if..." ideas that he is making a reality and hopefully will be a great success with some very important (ie. military) clients. I would imagine if such a cartridge is fielded, it would be on an automated platform similar to what we already use yet not many folks know about. The protective range would be doubled of what is currently available is a somewhat reasonable price range (ammo wise). And just image being able to disable an enemy armored vehicle without using the $90k hellfire rockets. Just one shot at a cost of about 25 to 35 bucks......
If all goes well, will this be available to the public to build (why would anyone ever need one...... well more and more folks are playing with 20mm anzios and vulcans in their "back yard") I say throw big brother the bird and sling the ultimate lead downrange!!

 

[KYpatriot]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

Well, it would have better range than the Vulcan on the F-15, but not sure it has the diameter to carry much explosives.

That being said, the current 20mm is ballistically pretty poor. The 30mm chain gun on the apache is also ballistically poor, but makes up for that somewhat by the fact it is basically lobbing grenades.

Something like this in a not so mini-gun configuration coukd deliver alot of penetrating power downrange. What if this was the co-ax instead of the .50?

I dont know if it is practical as a sniper platform...a sniper would have to answer that, I do know there is a lot of hardware we mount guns on. Something like this with a tungsten round, or depleted uranium, or even just a regular AP penetrator would do some serious damage.

I am more interested in the cartridge design than the rifle.

 

[saojao]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

The projectile is 3.98" long. There is plentty of room for a payload. No one is sniping people with this round. Again the rifle you see is a test mule.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

I really don't understand the resistance to this overall concept. I never saw this as a glorified varmint rifle, or a 'Gee whiz, lookee what I got" issue. The military channel showcases 20mm autocannon with precision timed fuzed burst ammo several times a year. My main question has pretty much been about how far it could go. This is a viable answer.

I've stayed out of ths mainly because it's waaaay outside my area of expertise (as if I ever actually had one). As the daylight begins to appear at the far end, it makes sense to me in the same way as the 20mm autocannon does, only it seems to weigh less and shoot further. I fail to see that as a cause for derogatory comment.

Comments about being able to put effective small arms (which is what this amounts to, in a wholle lotta bigger way) blast radius ordnance ontarget at artillery distances had competely evaded me until now. But upon reflection, they also make excellent sense. I also support ideas like this which increase the ground pounder's effeotiveness and ability to neutralize threats well beyond the distances ay which thay can be effective ones.

You can officially consider me a fan of this project. I wasn't always, but it's beginning to look like the winning side. Saojao's last post was the one that did it for me. People have already done the homework on those payloads of which he speaks. This is not Flash Gordon, folks.

Greg

 

[Onemoretime]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

http://youtu.be/xohy9gWz7kk

2400 grain bullet

 

[gathert]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

Thats a dinosaur gun right there. I think I read last time I saw that video that the scope had a 50mm objective but looks like a toy on a rifle that big. The whole cartridge is as big as the bullet that is going into the rifle that is being built on this thread.

 

[Onemoretime]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gathert</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thats a dinosaur gun right there. I think I read last time I saw that video that the scope had a 50mm objective but looks like a toy on a rifle that big. The whole cartridge is as big as the bullet that is going into the rifle that is being built on this thread. </div></div>

It says that the bullet for the projectile for the rifle being built here is around 1600 grains and the projectile in that video is 2400. Do you mean the projectile here is 'taller' or 'as tall' as the cartridge in the video?

I can see that as the projectile here looks to more of a VLD shape and the one in the video looks like a slug.

 

[gathert]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

Lengthwise as big. Either way, both guns are pretty massive and I would not hesitate to shell out the money for a few shots.

 

[Kilmore]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

Muzzle brakes are a beautiful thang!

 

[The Mechanic]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kilmore</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Muzzle brakes are a beautiful thang!

</div></div>
Do you mind giving us the story behind that? Ouch.

 

[Iron Worker1177]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

If it kicks that hard, why shoot it without a brake?

 

[saojao]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

There currently is a muzzle brake installed on the rifle. Not sure how that pic is relevant...maybe I'm missing something?

 

[Ouch!!]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

Thats a whole lot of savage action there

 

[SilencercoJames]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

uh.........

 

[Jig Stick]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

I would sue the person who approximated that wound. Holy fuck man. Stevie wonder could do a better job stitching that wound closed.

 

[Ammo dog 2311]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

Have you done penetration test on steel targets ? Sounds like it would go right through a bmp and come out though the back. How much concrete can it penetrate ? Any plans on explosive tipped ammo ?

Sounds like this was made for Afghanistan . With a team on a ridge top you could dominate a large area. The weight would not matter much when ur dropped off by hello, right ! With a security team and coms look out bad guys !

 

[bowstryder]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

Plans are in mix for a payload, as far as penetration goes.... well with a penetrator type round and 44k energy you can guess what won't it go through.....

 

[Jeff Given]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

Pretty awesome indeed. What brass are you using?

JG

 

[mercer2]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

Any updates?

 

[saojao]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

Got a pick of some brass being formed. Who can post the pic if i send it?

 

[Jimmym40a2]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

pm sent

 

[Jimmym40a2]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

 

[saojao]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

This brass still has about 3 more steps to go before it is Neck turned on the lathe and then fire formed!

 

[Jimmym40a2]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

 

[Dogtown]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

Shitballs! It's like the second coming of FatMac.

 

[saojao]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

The COAL is 7 inches brass is 4 inches! Little bigger than the Fat Mac.

 

[Country]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

Possibly the shoulder mounted rifle to fire it will most likely never be used for anything else other than ballistic proving of the round. After that if the Military except it the round may find it's way into a robotic cumputer controld gun mount in some kind of vehicle or aircraft .