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6.5 Creedmoor
- Thread starter Sportin Wood
- Start date
My bad in the post above, the second brass was Starline, not Norma!
But to summ it up finally:
I was shooting the 6.5 Creed eversince with Hornady brass.
Sometimes I had "good groups", but min. every 3rd or 4th shot was a flyer.
And even though I treated my brass up to the highest level (trimming, chamfering in and outside, necksizing with mandrel, turning necks on the outside, chamfering flashole, etc.) I couldn´t gather consistent velocities, with jumps I couldn´t declare.
I blamed it on me, the rifle, the scope mounting, trying to figure it out since months.
Weight-sorting brass in my opinion was nitpicking.
Sure, I knew that this might be a factor for precision, but also knew that some experts don´t do it, so I didn´t think about it further.
How wrong I was!
Then I´ve read NamibHunter´s posts inhere and having tried everything else, I gave it a shot.
The result with my always-used Hornady brass was down-throwing.
Compared to Starline and even more to Lapua, I never thought it would make this big of a difference.
So I made four loading ladders, using two different bullets and powders, with Starline and Lapua brass.
There where no velocity jumps, the groups where tied, rising slowly, as you normally wish it would be.
Wth!
Now I understand, why those experts don´t weighsort their brass, it is because they use Lapua or any other premium brass.
How was I wrong, and how many time and anger I could have avoided.
Sorry Hornady, I still will use your bullets, but your brass will be sold asap.
Just as a sidenote:
The Starline brass with Large Rifle primers and a 2mm flashhole generated roundabout 30fps more velocity than the Lapua brass with Small Rifle primers and a 1,5mm flashhole.
The difference shrank with higher loads, but never fell under 20fps.
The Starline brass with Large Rifle primers and a 2mm flashhole generated roundabout 30fps more velocity than the Lapua brass with Small Rifle primers and a 1,5mm flashhole.
The difference shrank with higher loads, but never fell under 20fps.
Btw: Midway has H4350 in stock.... For the next 90 seconds!
Why can’t i ever find RL-16 in stock anywhere...
Why can’t i ever find RL-16 in stock anywhere...
Powder valley has h4350 in stock and has for a while.
Rl16 is a different story.
RL16 8lb in stock at my LGS right now. Its always on the shelf....8lb Varget is no, but 1lb are.
In my limited experience, a batch of Lapua will have a 1.0 to 1.5 grain weight range, which is superb! Unless you are in the BR game, you don’t really need to sort that batch of brass.
I still do it in case i got a bad batch... yeah a little OCD. I tend to divide them into two batches of 50 each and serialize them (engrave a nr on the web), so i can keep track of cases that always have poor concentricity, or always cause fliers. Very rare to find problem cases with Lapua. Think i once had to cull out two bad cases, but that was a long time ago. Sometimes you see burrs on the inside the case (imperfect flash hole) and then that needs to be corrected, but 9 out of 10 batches do not have this problem.
And neck turning and weight sorting truly bad brass (with 2 thou plus diffs in case/neck thickness) does not turn them into premium brass. The cases form banana shapes after a while and concentricity goes to hell.
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Some of this 20-30 fps difference is probably due to internal volume changes, and some due to the amount of primer material. You could try Magnum SRP primers, should give a bit more speed. Like CCI450 primers, or Federal GM205. Or just add an extra 0.3 grains of powder.
Some bolts need to be bushed to avoid pierced primers if you switch to SRP brass.
Btw: It is not really practical to compare the weight of LRP brass to SRP brass due to the primer pocket and flash hole differences, and try to infer internal volume and speed deltas. [My post was for LRP brass only, as i only had one make of SRP brass with too narrow a weight range to be statistically significant.]
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Howdy NamibHunter,
well, the speed difference was only a sidenote and not to compare that both brass sorts.
Just to tell the numbers.
But what do you mean with "Some bolts need to be bushed"?
Do you mean that the firing pin hole has to be downsized?
Cheers,
Jay
well, the speed difference was only a sidenote and not to compare that both brass sorts.
Just to tell the numbers.
But what do you mean with "Some bolts need to be bushed"?
Do you mean that the firing pin hole has to be downsized?
Cheers,
Jay
And another topic:
Has anyone tried the VV N555 yet?
www.vihtavuori.com
Has anyone tried the VV N555 yet?
N555 high energy powder - Vihtavuori
Vihtavuori N555 – the ultimate reloading powder for 6.5 Creedmoor Vihtavuori’s new N555 smokeless rifle powder is designed for precision rifle platforms chambered in cartridges such as 6mm Creedmoor, 6.5 Creedmoor, .284 Winchester, .260 Remington and .30-06 Springfield and for rifle calibers...
www.vihtavuori.com
Primer piercing happens on some bolt where the soft primer material gets extruded into the (excessive) gap between the firing pin and the firing pin hole. Just too much gap and/or too much diameter to the firing pin hole. If you can fire SRP brass like Lapua with no pieced primers, then no need. Some primers cups are harder than others. My $800 Savage 12 and another $600 R700 are both not bushed, and work just fine as is with SRP brass.
This video gives a better description than what i can write down. Gretan Rifles (Mr Greg Tannel) bushed my firing pin, and i have to say he does good work.
I realize shipping a bolt across the Atlantic will be impractical, but i’m sure you will find a gunsmith who does this kind of work - should you need it.
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I got it.
I´ve used Federal Primers which are pretty weak with pretty hot loads, no cratering or anything else.
So for now, it is safe I think.
But what I´ve found, between the firing pin hole and the ejector, is a little dent on the bolt´s surface.
I have no idea where that came from and when.
I hope you can see it on the picture.
I´ve used Federal Primers which are pretty weak with pretty hot loads, no cratering or anything else.
So for now, it is safe I think.
But what I´ve found, between the firing pin hole and the ejector, is a little dent on the bolt´s surface.
I have no idea where that came from and when.
I hope you can see it on the picture.
Hard to be sure looking only at the photo. A blown or pierced primer could cause some scarring (gas cutting) on the bolt face, but this looks more like a manufacturing defect.
Hey all. New to the site and the thread, and have a question. Is anyone running the Hornady 153 A-tips or the Berger 153.5 LRHT's? If so what are your thoughts? And how do they stack up to the Hornady 140 eldm? From what I gather, for precision matches, the general consensus is 140 eldm's.
Cal Zant wrote up a nice article on “What do the pros use” around bullet choice, caliber and powder choice in PRS.
For 6.5 Creedmoor, Hornady 140 ELDM was the winner:
precisionrifleblog.com
For 6.5x47, it looks like the Berger 140 Hybrid was the winner at the time the survey was done. Hornady has some fans too. Both are good choices. [Would guess the Berger 144 will take over from the 140 Hybrid.]
precisionrifleblog.com
Many/most PRS competitors have switched to 6 mm calibers now. Less recoil leads to less disturbance to your sight picture, you can see your bullet splash on the steel target (and the dust from your misses), for quicker correction in aiming point (especially for variable wind), and faster follow-up shots.
Felt recoil is not really the problem, but if you can shoot faster, and correct better, you can gain a real competitive edge. [Very aggressive 4 port muzzle brakes are also common now, directing the blast wave at the shooter, and something you have to get used to.]
For 6.5 Creedmoor, Hornady 140 ELDM was the winner:
6 & 6.5 Creedmoor Load Data – What The Pros Use
This past year I asked the 173 of the top-ranked precision rifle shooters in the country about the ...
precisionrifleblog.com
For 6.5x47, it looks like the Berger 140 Hybrid was the winner at the time the survey was done. Hornady has some fans too. Both are good choices. [Would guess the Berger 144 will take over from the 140 Hybrid.]
6×47 and 6.5×47 Lapua Load Data – What The Pros Use
I surveyed 173 of the top-ranked precision rifle shooters in the country about the load they were r...
precisionrifleblog.com
Many/most PRS competitors have switched to 6 mm calibers now. Less recoil leads to less disturbance to your sight picture, you can see your bullet splash on the steel target (and the dust from your misses), for quicker correction in aiming point (especially for variable wind), and faster follow-up shots.
Felt recoil is not really the problem, but if you can shoot faster, and correct better, you can gain a real competitive edge. [Very aggressive 4 port muzzle brakes are also common now, directing the blast wave at the shooter, and something you have to get used to.]
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OK, ran out of 140 gn bullets so visited my local gun shop to buy their overpriced projectiles. Picked up two boxes of Hornady 140 ELD-M and could not resist one box of 135 A-tips (at 75 cents each!). I guess companies will charge what their market will bear, so it seems they have me figured out.
While listening to a podcast, took the time to weight sort a box of 100 of the 140 ELDM’s, expecting something like a 0.3 to 0.4 grain weight range. Nope!
Weight starts at 139.5 and goes all the way to 140.3, so a 0.7 grain weight range. Really?
Will try to sort the Atips next, hopefully they are 3x better.... given the large price difference.
While listening to a podcast, took the time to weight sort a box of 100 of the 140 ELDM’s, expecting something like a 0.3 to 0.4 grain weight range. Nope!
Weight starts at 139.5 and goes all the way to 140.3, so a 0.7 grain weight range. Really?
Will try to sort the Atips next, hopefully they are 3x better.... given the large price difference.
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Interesting, the ELD-M both 130 and 140 shoot well in my rifles. I'll be interested to see how the A-Tips stack up. Where those are put up in order, maybe weigh in order to see if the variance is random or follows a pattern? I have wanted to try the 135gr but haven't seen enough terminal performance on game to be comfortable with them yet.
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Good idea to weigh the bullets in the order it was packaged.
My MPA has a min spec chamber with very short freebore, so the 147-156 gn bullets end up seated far too deep in the case, so limited to the 120 to 140 gn range.... Maybe the 144 Berger is a possibility too.
[Edit: Want to make sure the bearing surface of the bullet does not go past the neck shoulder junction, to avoid donuts that form in this spot from varying effective neck tension. So super long bullets are not easy to load AND keep ES low due to the interference from the donut. The high BC benefit (wind drift reduction) is negated by the bad ES (excessive vertical) at longer distances…]
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OK here is some Hornady 135 A-tip weight data:
Superb result, SD of only 0.06 gn, ES/range is 0.28 gn. Well done to the good folks in Grand Island Nebraska!
Second tray of 50:
Also measured Base to Ogive using an accurate vernier (i-Gauging), and gave up after 25 or so. There was less than 1.5 thou of difference, and my measurement technique is at best plus or minus 1 thou (sharp corner on the Hornady bullet comparator gives a variable reading, depending on how much pressure you apply).
Tried to figure out if the bullets were packed left to right or front to back, but could not see a clear pattern. Does anybody know?
Checked bullet diameter with a micrometer: Best i can tell they are all within 0.15 thou or less (probably beyond my ability to accurately determine).
My conclusion is stop weight sorting the Atip bullets and just load them. Stop worrying about ogive consistency. It is actually better than you need!
Superb result, SD of only 0.06 gn, ES/range is 0.28 gn. Well done to the good folks in Grand Island Nebraska!
Second tray of 50:
Also measured Base to Ogive using an accurate vernier (i-Gauging), and gave up after 25 or so. There was less than 1.5 thou of difference, and my measurement technique is at best plus or minus 1 thou (sharp corner on the Hornady bullet comparator gives a variable reading, depending on how much pressure you apply).
Tried to figure out if the bullets were packed left to right or front to back, but could not see a clear pattern. Does anybody know?
Checked bullet diameter with a micrometer: Best i can tell they are all within 0.15 thou or less (probably beyond my ability to accurately determine).
My conclusion is stop weight sorting the Atip bullets and just load them. Stop worrying about ogive consistency. It is actually better than you need!
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Well, according to the Nosler and Hornady loading manuals, you are already getting close to a 70-100 fps more than their max values for Varget.
You might have an exceptionally fast barrel (Bartleins tend to do that, well sometimes). Or your chamber dimensions might be on the large side. What is your barrel length?
Pressure signs can be subtle. A friend of mine shot a box of 50 loaded in Lapua brass, and did not see or feel pressure signs like hard bolt lift at the range. After tumbling the cases for an hour, they all showed a clear full moon (bright ejector imprint), so he was probably pushing 70,000 psi plus. Not good for brass life (or barrel life).
Hornady brass is pretty soft and the primer pocket can open up very quickly if you push pressures. If you have a micrometer, maybe measure case diameter at the base and compare new and fired brass, and if it moved noticeably in one firing that is a bad sign. [Calipers are not accurate enough for this job.] Check how easy or hard the primers seat, and compare with virgin brass.
Also consider upgrading to premium brass, SRP brass lasts about 3x longer than LRP brass, and is more robust. But you will need small primer pins in your dies and you will have to order different primers.
I would redo the top 2 grains and load in 0.2 or 0.3 gn increments and look for a flat spot in the speed graph. With some luck your SD will also be low at that point. Then test for positive compensation at longer distance. And if the best / widest node is 50 fps below max, don’t worry about it. IMHO, the last 50-70 fps is not worth chasing, unless you compete at the top level.
Just one man’s opinion!
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You will like the Alpha brass. Very consistent. But thick stuff, might hit pressure a little earlier.
What is your barrel make and length?
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Lovely rifle that Christensen!
You can estimate the speed loss at about 25 fps per inch for a shorter barrel, so 2880 fps is fast for a 130 gn bullet out of a 22”. Same as 2980 for a 26” rifle, which is the typical barrel length that most folks would be using.
Some folks get to 2950 plus with the 130s, but they are likely using a different powder.
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I can comfortably get over 3000fps with a Kimber 84M 22", 130gr and RL26 that is right at the top end though. No way Varget even comes close to that. Varget is a bit on the fast side for the Creedmoor. I have hunted with and shot a Christensen and it's a nice rifle.
I assumed the 135 Atip bullets are packed left to right (from position 1 to 5, then start again at the left side of the tray and repeat 10 times):
If you squint hard enough, maybe there is a ‘trend’. Or maybe not.
I might have to walk back my prior statement (“stop sorting and just shoot”). There were 4 outliers in this tray (but not the prior tray) that i would have culled and used for practice sessions, and removing them from the tray while keeping the order the same would have almost halved the (weight) SD.
Still, a good result almost on par with Berger.
If you squint hard enough, maybe there is a ‘trend’. Or maybe not.
I might have to walk back my prior statement (“stop sorting and just shoot”). There were 4 outliers in this tray (but not the prior tray) that i would have culled and used for practice sessions, and removing them from the tray while keeping the order the same would have almost halved the (weight) SD.
Still, a good result almost on par with Berger.
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I love Starline brass across the board (223, 308 and 6.5 Creed). I use their small primer brass (which has the normal size flash hole) and its been very consistent for me.
Am happy you say that.
I only could get Lapua SR and Starline LR, which I made a side-to-side comparison with, and accuracy-wise they were the same.
I´ve tested five different loads with three bullets and I couldn´t figure out the better round.
Only thing, the LR Starline were always a bit faster.
So, getting the same accuracy, but the Starline being about 40% cheaper over here, and wanting to have the longer brass life with the Small Primer cases, I took "the best" of both worlds and ordered 500 Starline SR cases.
And what else I did, I have bought, lent and stolen all SR primers I could get my hands on the last three days and made some velocity comparisons for consistency.
Winner were the Federal 205M Premium Primers Gold Medal with a max. velocity difference of 3m/s (that´s under 10fps) with 6 shots.
So I ordered 2,000 of them as well.
I only could get Lapua SR and Starline LR, which I made a side-to-side comparison with, and accuracy-wise they were the same.
I´ve tested five different loads with three bullets and I couldn´t figure out the better round.
Only thing, the LR Starline were always a bit faster.
So, getting the same accuracy, but the Starline being about 40% cheaper over here, and wanting to have the longer brass life with the Small Primer cases, I took "the best" of both worlds and ordered 500 Starline SR cases.
And what else I did, I have bought, lent and stolen all SR primers I could get my hands on the last three days and made some velocity comparisons for consistency.
Winner were the Federal 205M Premium Primers Gold Medal with a max. velocity difference of 3m/s (that´s under 10fps) with 6 shots.
So I ordered 2,000 of them as well.
My goto 6.5 Creedmoor load
* Starline Small Rifle Primer Brass
* 42.3gr H4350
* 140 ELD-M @ 2.810 COAL
* Fiocchi Lead Free Small Rifle Primer
* Ruger Precision Gen 2
That load usually nets me about 2700FPS with an SD around 8. I've been playing with IMR 4350 as well but haven't done enough testing to be more confident in it than H4350 but the initial results have shown some really low SD's as well, but with lower velocity.
* Starline Small Rifle Primer Brass
* 42.3gr H4350
* 140 ELD-M @ 2.810 COAL
* Fiocchi Lead Free Small Rifle Primer
* Ruger Precision Gen 2
That load usually nets me about 2700FPS with an SD around 8. I've been playing with IMR 4350 as well but haven't done enough testing to be more confident in it than H4350 but the initial results have shown some really low SD's as well, but with lower velocity.
Got a box of 100 Berger 144 LRHT bullets yesterday. Weighed them on an accurate lab scale (FX120), and got very consistent results:
AVG: 144.039
ES: 0.280
SD: 0.048
MAX: 144.18
MIN: 143.90
This is pretty impressive! If you sorted on a typical scale with 0.1 gn resolution, you would have seen only 3 groups. 143.9, 140.0 and 144.1.
Compare to 135 Atip (which was also good, but not quite at Olympic standard):
AVG: 135.01
ES: 0.40
SD: 0.070
MAX: 135.20
MIN: 134.80
ES and SD numbers are about 30% better for the Berger. But it was only one box of (100 count) ammo vs another single box of (100 count) ammo. YMMV.
AVG: 144.039
ES: 0.280
SD: 0.048
MAX: 144.18
MIN: 143.90
This is pretty impressive! If you sorted on a typical scale with 0.1 gn resolution, you would have seen only 3 groups. 143.9, 140.0 and 144.1.
Compare to 135 Atip (which was also good, but not quite at Olympic standard):
AVG: 135.01
ES: 0.40
SD: 0.070
MAX: 135.20
MIN: 134.80
ES and SD numbers are about 30% better for the Berger. But it was only one box of (100 count) ammo vs another single box of (100 count) ammo. YMMV.
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Try this link. At least they have some powder recommendations.
Loading manuals will provide a good start. Your chamber will be different from mine (my MPA barrel is close to min spec) that my load data will not be useful to you.
I got superb results with the (pricey) 135 Atips using RL16 and the reasonably priced 130 Sierra TMK with H4350 and IMR4350 (at 0.3 gn more), but i am sure there are many good options in that weight range. I found my best/widest node about 50-60 fps below max pressure.
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Hi all, first timer here so be gentle
I am coming in with VERY limited reloading knowledge and experience, but I’m willing to listen and learn so I’m looking for wisdom and direction on a problem I do not understand and therefore seem unable to fix.
Let me begin with rifle specs. There are two AI’s in the mix mine and a buddies. He has an AX 6.5cm with the factory 24” barrel. Mine is an AXMC again with a factory 6.5cm 24” barrel. We are shooting theoretically the same rounds.
130 Serria Hpbt-cn matchkings #1729
Peterson once fired brass.
42.0 RL-16
Cci BR2 primers
We’re loading to the same length but I’m at work and can’t remember exactly I’ll check when I get home.
So my problem is we are getting a difference of 80 FPS difference between the rounds he loads and the rounds I load. Rifle does not seem to matter. If I shoot mine I get an average of 2850 and so does he. If I shoot his the number jumps to 2920-2930. These numbers are consistent, 5 shot groups, multiple days, multiple batches of ammo.
In the beginning we thought it was primers, I was using S&B I had gotten from another friend. Bought CCI no average change however consistentcy Got much better with the CCI’s. Then we went to neck tension. Being new I had inadvertently set my neck tension to almost nothing. After conversations we brought mine up to .002 neck tension to align with his and my FPS dropped to 2830 avg.
I’m at a loss here. We’re using identical supplies, identical equipment, identical rifles, but the numbers are so different. We shoot together in a local event and it’s gotten to the point where we are talking about him loading all the Ammo just to get the higher speeds.
Any help is greatly appreciated I’m just at a loss
I am coming in with VERY limited reloading knowledge and experience, but I’m willing to listen and learn so I’m looking for wisdom and direction on a problem I do not understand and therefore seem unable to fix.
Let me begin with rifle specs. There are two AI’s in the mix mine and a buddies. He has an AX 6.5cm with the factory 24” barrel. Mine is an AXMC again with a factory 6.5cm 24” barrel. We are shooting theoretically the same rounds.
130 Serria Hpbt-cn matchkings #1729
Peterson once fired brass.
42.0 RL-16
Cci BR2 primers
We’re loading to the same length but I’m at work and can’t remember exactly I’ll check when I get home.
So my problem is we are getting a difference of 80 FPS difference between the rounds he loads and the rounds I load. Rifle does not seem to matter. If I shoot mine I get an average of 2850 and so does he. If I shoot his the number jumps to 2920-2930. These numbers are consistent, 5 shot groups, multiple days, multiple batches of ammo.
In the beginning we thought it was primers, I was using S&B I had gotten from another friend. Bought CCI no average change however consistentcy Got much better with the CCI’s. Then we went to neck tension. Being new I had inadvertently set my neck tension to almost nothing. After conversations we brought mine up to .002 neck tension to align with his and my FPS dropped to 2830 avg.
I’m at a loss here. We’re using identical supplies, identical equipment, identical rifles, but the numbers are so different. We shoot together in a local event and it’s gotten to the point where we are talking about him loading all the Ammo just to get the higher speeds.
Any help is greatly appreciated I’m just at a loss
Every barrel will be different, some faster than others no way of having identical barrel speeds with the same load . Dont sweat a few fps differences just shoot it. New barrels need time to break in and sometimes I've seen a velocity increase after 250 300 rounds through my 6.5 barrels .
So you're saying your rifle shoots both yours and his ammo the same speed and his rifle shoots both the same speed? Maybe he just has a faster barrel, or perhaps his has a different freebore and is building more pressure as a result. I wouldn't sweat it if the rifles are shooting good. Just because they're not the same as each other doesn't mean they're not doing what is good for themselves.
No! My apologies I didn’t write that very clearly. Mine shoots his 2920 and mine at 2850
His shoots his 2920 and mine at 2850
That’s where my confusion started. His rounds are consistently faster in BOTH rifles using all the same components. I’m not worried about a few FPS, but 80? I’ve gone so far as to weigh all my bullets and cases. Cherry picked all for consistency loaded 20 rounds. Shot them 5 his/5 mine back to back through both rifles and I get the same results. Every round he loads is about 80 FPS faster.
and to be honest the AI doesn’t care. It groups lights out with either his/my loads through either rifle
Okay, in that case my first thought would be powder lot. You shooting two different lots of powder? Might be worth checking. Also brass, same lot of brass? Internal dimensions of the brass might be a bit different. Both are Peterson brass right? If they were different brands of brass that alone could explain it. Still I maintain if it's shooting well and not causing pressure I wouldn't be too bothered. You might need to add a bit more powder if you want the velocity.
Yes. Same Peterson brass, as for lot number we don’t know it came from once fired Prime that we both shot.
The powder I will have to check. He bought his in 1 lbs from one brownells and I got an 8lbs from midsouth I believe. I would assume that they are different lots. Would velocities change that much from lot to lot?
Another question and I ask for knowledge not to disagree. Would case size change speed even with the same powder charge?
The powder I will have to check. He bought his in 1 lbs from one brownells and I got an 8lbs from midsouth I believe. I would assume that they are different lots. Would velocities change that much from lot to lot?
Another question and I ask for knowledge not to disagree. Would case size change speed even with the same powder charge?
Lot to lot variations of powder can in some cases be very substantial, in other cases not to much but I wouldn't be beside myself if I found out that was the only difference, but I agree with you they probably are different lots. Yes case volume definitely matters, although I don't know how much difference to expect between 2 lots of Peterson brass, I suspect not much. But Lapua vs Peterson for example there is a huge difference, Peterson brass is thicker and changes internal volume quite a bit. And as far as that goes I wouldn't make it a habit to try ammo developed for one rifle in another rifle. You should always start low and work up for a given batch of brass and a given rifle. I have 2 6.5 creeds, one with Peterson brass and 42 grains of powder and another with Lapua brass and 43 grains, if I put the 42 grain Peterson brass load in the other rifle that shoots the 43 grain Lapua brass load, I would get heavy bolt lift and other pressure issues, don't ask how I know
. Just something to be aware of.
Ok. So our next step was for me to size 10 cases. Prime 5 and leave 5 empty. My buddy is going to load all ten. That way 5 will be with my primers and 5 won’t. All will be with his powder. My assumption is if the speed jumps then it’s the powder.
logical?
logical?
To do it right, if you wanted to determine if the powder lot is making the difference you should get some of his powder and work up loads on your setup to keep all other variables the same, start charges low (well below your current load) and work up a load like you would if you bought new powder or a different powder to make sure you have no pressure issues. By doing this you may even have an answer with the lower charges because you may get to the 2850 velocity with less powder than you were loading from your lot of powder. But honestly at that point my question is would that information help you any? Unless the curiosity itch is just killing you and it's worth it to you to use components and barrel life to satisfy that curiosity I don't see much gain in determining whether it's a powder lot difference or not. I know I wouldn't bother, I'd just go shoot and develop good drop data.
@slayer 2c
The last time I played with RL16, I opened a new jug and loaded a few charges to see where I would be at. My current load was a mild 40.6 grains going 2835 with a 140 grain ELD.
The new lot, at the same charge was 2770. I redid my load for that lot (up to 41.8 grains to get back to my node and speed of 2840) shot it up and went back to H4350.
The last time I played with RL16, I opened a new jug and loaded a few charges to see where I would be at. My current load was a mild 40.6 grains going 2835 with a 140 grain ELD.
The new lot, at the same charge was 2770. I redid my load for that lot (up to 41.8 grains to get back to my node and speed of 2840) shot it up and went back to H4350.
Thanks guys!!!
Archangel
I’ll do exactly that! And yes curiosity has totally gotten the better of me. At this point it’s the principle. Once I figure it out I can shoot my 2850 and be good. My load shoots lights out At this point I feel like I “need” to know.
lunchbox
Thanks. That makes me feel like I’m not crazy! I’ve been reading through this thread most of the day (I’m working ) and it seems like a lot of people are using H4350. Is there a reason? It seems like H4350 is what the vast majority of people use. There has to be a reason why.
Archangel
I’ll do exactly that! And yes curiosity has totally gotten the better of me. At this point it’s the principle. Once I figure it out I can shoot my 2850 and be good. My load shoots lights out At this point I feel like I “need” to know.
lunchbox
Thanks. That makes me feel like I’m not crazy! I’ve been reading through this thread most of the day (I’m working
) and it seems like a lot of people are using H4350. Is there a reason? It seems like H4350 is what the vast majority of people use. There has to be a reason why.
haha, okay well more power to you then.Thanks guys!!!
Archangel
I’ll do exactly that! And yes curiosity has totally gotten the better of me. At this point it’s the principle. Once I figure it out I can shoot my 2850 and be good. My load shoots lights out At this point I feel like I “need” to know.
lunchbox
Thanks. That makes me feel like I’m not crazy! I’ve been reading through this thread most of the day (I’m working
H4350 has been around a very long time and is a very well respected powder. The burn rate is ideal for this size of cartridge with heavier bullets and it is very temperature stable, plus has fairly low lot to lot inconsistencies. So that's why so many use it. RL16 is a really good powder for this cartridge too though and from the data I've seen appears to be even more temperature stable than H4350. But it may have more lot to lot variability, which can be frustrating. It seems like regardless of powder you have to rework loads when changing lots. I currently use H4350, but I'm actually thinking of switching to RL16 for my creed sized cartridges. Part of that depends on availability, haha.
Cal Zant has a blog called the precision rifle blog. He covers all sorts of topics and does surveys on top shooters nationwide to determine what they're using and often why. I'd suggest you check out his blogs titled "what the pros use" and that will help answer a lot of these questions on what and why they're using. I'm fairly sure he has powder choice for one of his surveys, but so many more. He's also a stellar guy.
Almost certainly your powder lots are different and the burn rates are not the same. Fairly typical actually to see a difference, but usually not this extreme.
Just add some powder and watch for pressure signs. Chambers will not be identical, so one rifle will sometimes hit pressure signs well before another.
Trim cases to the same length. Then weight sort your two batches of brass just to be sure (cull out the bad ones), and compare average weight values. Very likely not the issue.
Just add some powder and watch for pressure signs. Chambers will not be identical, so one rifle will sometimes hit pressure signs well before another.
Trim cases to the same length. Then weight sort your two batches of brass just to be sure (cull out the bad ones), and compare average weight values. Very likely not the issue.
When Hornady launched the 6.5 Creedmoor in 2008 they published the load recipe on the ammo box, and they were using Hodgedon H4350 at that time.
They are probably using a proprietary blend now and has stopped publishing the recipe.
This load recipe may or may not work well for you, but at least it was a way for hand loaders to reproduce the factory ammo produced at that time. Always start low and work up. You may see pressure signs before you get to 41.5 gn depending on chamber dimensions, brass thickness, powder lot, etc.
Very temp insensitive and works well in the 6.5 CM - with 90% plus case fill. And all too often in short supply!
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I just might know a little country store that has one pounders on the shelf!!! Might pick some up and try it out.
Like I said previously however I got 8 lbs of the RL-16. Might have to use that up first though!!
Like I said previously however I got 8 lbs of the RL-16. Might have to use that up first though!!
