Any more updates on the 144 berger? I'm more interested in shot to shot consistency than chasing velocity. I've been shooting the 130 hybrid at about 2850 with 37.1 grains of varget with a .010 jump. I'm satisfied with this combo, but I'm running low on bullets and wondering if other people have switched to the 144 and found the change worthwhile.
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For comparison's sake, how far down in the case is a 140 eld-m in the same cartridge/chamber with the same distance to lands?
They have shot phenomenally well out of 3 of my rifles in 6.5 Creed. Maybe not comparable to the 6.5 x 47 but the 144's were worth every penny to upgrade. That's coming from someone that also likes the 130's.
I just clean them up when I get a new box. Just skim off any high spots. Not sure if its really needed but old habits are hard to break.
I switched to the 144's and they print same impact as my 140 hybrids. Very consistent out to 1135
Here's my one mile load for the x47 round...
Brass: Lapua
Bullet: 139gr Lapua Scenar
Primer: CCI BR4
Powder: Varget 37.8gr
Seating: .010" jump (ogive oal measurement: 2.1805")
Barrel: 26" Jury Custom varmint profile 1:8"
Velocity: 2888fps 10 shot Ave ES=14 SD=5.4
Environmentals: temp=+20c, R.H.=38% ASL=1124m wind=n/a
Because of the weight and size of the 6.5 bullet, wind is always a factor at anything over 1000 yards. That's my disclaimer. I love the x47 round. Wind doping is fun with this round!
Brass: Lapua
Bullet: 139gr Lapua Scenar
Primer: CCI BR4
Powder: Varget 37.8gr
Seating: .010" jump (ogive oal measurement: 2.1805")
Barrel: 26" Jury Custom varmint profile 1:8"
Velocity: 2888fps 10 shot Ave ES=14 SD=5.4
Environmentals: temp=+20c, R.H.=38% ASL=1124m wind=n/a
Because of the weight and size of the 6.5 bullet, wind is always a factor at anything over 1000 yards. That's my disclaimer. I love the x47 round. Wind doping is fun with this round!
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I can't speak from experience, since I haven't shot the 144's yet, but my research has shown that most people who have switched from the 140 hybrid to the 144 hybrid are using the same powder charge. That's not an endorsement of what I would do, but it's just what I found when I asked the same question.
trying to learn how best to choose a projectile for longer range steel shooting.
looking at a few trajectory ballistic programs i reviewed 120 lapua,, 123 lapua and 136 lapua projectiles. it seems that based on my rifle/barrel characteristics the 123 projectile afforded the briefest time of flight to 1000 yards.
Is there any reason to choose a different projectile to shoot steel at these longer distance?' thanks
looking at a few trajectory ballistic programs i reviewed 120 lapua,, 123 lapua and 136 lapua projectiles. it seems that based on my rifle/barrel characteristics the 123 projectile afforded the briefest time of flight to 1000 yards.
Is there any reason to choose a different projectile to shoot steel at these longer distance?' thanks
Heavier bullets carry more inertia, so they lose velocity slower than lighter bullets. It doesn't matter what you're shooting at, but generally the farther you want to shoot, the heavier the bullet should be - to a point. The 123 may get to 1000 yards fastest, but the 136 will be less affected by wind.
Since you are researching, if you have time, check the following too:
135 Berger Classic
130 Berger VLD
130 Berger OTM
140 Berger VLD
139 Scenar
Its a great cartridge and depending on the throat you are going with, any of the ones you reviewed or the ones I listed would work just fine. Finding stuff in the 130-135 range with 36.8-37.8 grains of varget is kind of hard to beat.
You may also do an internet search for PRS Handloads. The guys on there are amazingly consistent on the loads they are using.
135 Berger Classic
130 Berger VLD
130 Berger OTM
140 Berger VLD
139 Scenar
Its a great cartridge and depending on the throat you are going with, any of the ones you reviewed or the ones I listed would work just fine. Finding stuff in the 130-135 range with 36.8-37.8 grains of varget is kind of hard to beat.
You may also do an internet search for PRS Handloads. The guys on there are amazingly consistent on the loads they are using.
I don't think that is true. Heavier bullets relative to lighter bullets in any given caliber will generally be longer, thus more aerodynamic (as measured by Ballistic Coefficient), and it's the degree of how aerodynamic a bullet is that helps a bullet retain it's velocity. What slows a bullet down is aerodynamic drag, thus aerodynamic efficiency is what determines the rate at which a bullet slows down. Weight and BC are correlated, but weight is not the appropriate input to look to in order to determine which bullet will have less drop.
For example, the berger 130 hybrid will have less drop compared to a 136 Scenar L if they are shot at the same velocity (.287 G7 BC vs .274 G7 BC). A 135 a-tip will drop less than a 143 eldx or a 142 SMK. If you had two bullets with identical designs but one was a solid copper bullet and one was a lead core bullet, the solid copper bullet would be lighter (copper is less dense than lead) than the lead bullet, however, if they were launched at the same velocity, they would retain velocity at the same rate, the heavy bullet wouldn't retain velocity better due to inertia. For any given caliber, there are plenty of heavy hunting bullets that drop more than lighter target bullets, so velocity retention shouldn't be distilled down to bullet weight as the sole variable.
But remember, BC/aerodynamic drag is not a measure of precision, so it's not a fact that high BC bullets will shoot better than low(er) BC bullets.
I think Dogtown knows what I said above, I think he was over simplifying this to prevent confusing you, after all he did say, "but generally the farther you want to shoot, the heavier the bullet should be - to a point.". I want to place emphasis on " - to a point". The best thing you can do is plug numbers into a ballistic calculator using assumptions about what velocities you can get with various bullets. I think going through that exercise will be a learning experience.
i understand....thank you for that. i've only recently purchased the Applied Ballistics app and am learning to use it. Will try out what you recommended. I need to purchase some projectiles for both this 6.5x47L as well as for a 6.5 Cr so i can avail myself to factory ammunition as well as reloads.
I have had great luck with the 147 ELD's and Alliant Reloder 16. RL-16 gave me lower ES than H4350 with about the same accuracy. These ELD-M bullets are less expensive at around $35 a box than most match grade bullets, but shoot really well for me at distance. Apparently I am not sending them fast enough to blow them up, my MV is around 2700. They do hit noticeably harder on steel than the 123-130 grainers.
So from my experience with the CM, exact same charge, same OAL. Might be different for the x47.
It's interesting.....my 6.5x47L barrel/rifle wasn't too happy with the Berger 140gm until i got down to 36.0gn of Varget. I did 0.1 gn increments from 36.0 to 36.9 and the only .3-.4 moa groups were observed at the 36.0 weight.
consistently my best groups seem to come from the 123gn projectiles...
hopefully in a couple of months i'll have the 6.5 Cr barrel and i'll start all over there.
consistently my best groups seem to come from the 123gn projectiles...
hopefully in a couple of months i'll have the 6.5 Cr barrel and i'll start all over there.
I've been working with Berger 144 Hybrid LRs for the past few weeks and have a load that has gone from all touching to collapsing onto each other:
Berger 144 Hybrid LR
Lapua cases
CCI 450
41.4gr RL17
2.800" COAL
2.124" CBTO
Neck tension from 0.2625" mandrel
2890fps out of 26" barrel
Berger 144 Hybrid LR
Lapua cases
CCI 450
41.4gr RL17
2.800" COAL
2.124" CBTO
Neck tension from 0.2625" mandrel
2890fps out of 26" barrel
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What length barrel?? 2890 with 144's?!? And thats not hot?
I'm running the 130 pointed SMK's at 2920 out of my 27" and its straight hammering. Shot 0.5moa at 700yd last week dead calm day. I love these new pointed 130 smk
I'm running the 130 pointed SMK's at 2920 out of my 27" and its straight hammering. Shot 0.5moa at 700yd last week dead calm day. I love these new pointed 130 smk
That does seem blistering fast to me as well but the round has surprised many times in the short time I have been using it.
I am going out tomorrow to shoot some groups with AR-COMP, there wasn't any data to be found anywhere with it in the 6.5x47 but it showed great promise in the initial ladder I tested.
Varget is mostly all I have used with it but I run 130 Hybrids and 130 HVLD.
The bullets I have been tinkering with lately are Nosler 123CC and tried several powders not listed anywhere with them ( AA4064, H 100V, and AR-COMP ) all made it to 3000 fps and over fairly easily but AR-COMP was most consistent and most linear velocity increase as powder charge went up.
I have a metric ton of Berger 130 and 140 Hybrids but I've been running these new Sierra 130's since I got a bunch given to me.
One of my closest friends came into town with her boyfriend from TX this past week. He never shot a precision bolt gun in his life and never shot past 200yds... he went 10 for 10 on steel at 700yds with my x47L/130smk's and his group was right at moa. He couldn't believe it. Haha
No way he had a shit eating grin on his face either right ?
He sure did. He couldn't believe it. He kept saying, damn that thing is awesome.
26" barrel and yes, the velocities surprised me too, but it is what it is. This particular charge weight is right on the edge before I started seeing flattened primers and cratering. With this particular load I went all the way up to 41.8gr and never got sticky bolt, but the last charge resulted in pretty flat primers. The groups for 41.2 & 41.6 were also comparatively good, so I settled on 41.4gr and ran out a range of seating depth tests which showed that 0.015" off the lands was best. Lastly I took that load and shot some 5-shot strings with variable neck tension via mandrels and that's when it went from all touching to collapsing onto each other.
I dont doubt you...problem is that shit doesn't hold up to temp swings in my testing which is why I wont use it....especially if your on the edge of pressure.....speed isn't everything
See now you guys have me second guessing my awesome load 
N550 has been my go-to powder for the heavier 6.5 bullets for a while, but QL had convinced me to try RL17 to squeeze the most performance out of the cartridge. I may have to try that too.
N550 has been my go-to powder for the heavier 6.5 bullets for a while, but QL had convinced me to try RL17 to squeeze the most performance out of the cartridge. I may have to try that too.
I had great results with RL-17 in a 260AI. 2980 FPS, 142SMK, with 44.2 gr of RL17. No pressure either.
I had it up around 3050 with 44.8 gr, but that started showing pressure signs.
The temp sensitivity was very real. I did the load development in Oct in 60 degree weather. 2980 fps. Same load in December at 40 degrees, 2960 fps. July weather and 100 degrees, 3020 fps ( verified with a buddy's Labradar. Punched in a temp sensitivity of 1fps per degree and that seemed to work very well.
I had it up around 3050 with 44.8 gr, but that started showing pressure signs.
The temp sensitivity was very real. I did the load development in Oct in 60 degree weather. 2980 fps. Same load in December at 40 degrees, 2960 fps. July weather and 100 degrees, 3020 fps ( verified with a buddy's Labradar. Punched in a temp sensitivity of 1fps per degree and that seemed to work very well.
Everyone has their idea of what makes an awesome load.. for me, your load would have me worrying that there was a pressure spike lurking around every corner. A long string of fire on a hot day when its been in the sun all day, wet conditions, etc. I would worry that I would have to babysit the load and constantly tweak it to keep up performance which is something I dislike doing. I would worry that it'll kill the barrel prematurely.See now you guys have me second guessing my awesome load
N550 has been my go-to powder for the heavier 6.5 bullets for a while, but QL had convinced me to try RL17 to squeeze the most performance out of the cartridge. I may have to try that too.
To me, an awesome load is one that shoots lights out for 2000+ rounds (and beyond) consistently that you never have to worry about. The small increase in wind performance you will get from hotrodding it will be all but negated by pressure spikes/instability, inability to call wind to 1mph and the added recoil that comes from shooting a hotrodded 144 versus a mild and consistent 130. Don't get me wrong, im not running my 130s super slow, but I'm not hotrodding them either. This of course is just my opinion and we may have different purposes for our rifles. Having your load/barrel shit the bed right before or even during a match is not a fun place to be. I'd gladly hold an extra couple tenths of wind to avoid it.
Just found 2 boxes of Hornady 140 gr BTHP Match Bullets. I’m hearing more positive chatter about the 140’s now. Opinions?
Has anyone have a good starting load with hornady 140bthp, varget, cc450??
Just ran out of my hybrids and old varget powder lot.
Just ran out of my hybrids and old varget powder lot.
Thanks for the reality check.
I went back to N550 and worked up a non-hotrod load that seems to be just as crazy accurate in the 2750fps zone and nowhere near pressure signs.
What charge are you at Padom? I just got around to shooting those 15 shots i loaded in march today lol. 37.8gr of varget gave me an SD of 1.5 out of 3 shots at 2811. Surprised i thought i'd be getting a little hot there but i wish i had loaded to 38.0 now. I'm going to load another 3-5 with 38.0 to see what they look like and shoot them tomorrow.
Also this might be a stupid question but can you a throater and increase freebore? Mine is anemic at .123
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I'm also interested in the charge weight Padom is running. 38.7gr AR2208 (Varget) is my load with 130 JLK's = 2840fps from a 22' barrel. Barrel is throated for 147gr ELD's so I'm loading very long/have heaps of case capacity
37.8-38.0 was what I ran my Berger 130 hybrid at. Lapua brass, br-4, varget. 2930 out of a bartlein 28"
36.6 for Berger 140 hybrid. Same components. 26" McGowan 2790. No pressure even in middle of summer
36.6 for Berger 140 hybrid. Same components. 26" McGowan 2790. No pressure even in middle of summer
I'm short and stubby with .123 FB i'm about to have it throated. But i shot 37.8, 37.9, 38.0, and 38.1gr of varget today. 38.1 showed a little ejector swipe but i was surprised i didn't hit a wall. This bullet is just easy. The nodes are huge and it groups. 38.0 despite being a little less consistent than 37.9 which is pretty much the node, might have printed near about the best group i've ever shot. Easily the best 4 shot group i've printed. I kept pulling the last one after seeing how good the initial 4 were lol. I'm severely out of practice too. I don't shoot anymore due to time constraints so these things are just stupid easy to load for.
