6gt
- Thread starter Dthomas3523
- Start date
What are you paying per round for factory loaded and where are you getting it?
nearly a carbon copy of mine when I started.
33.6 to 33.8 is a pretty common area to settle into.
I’ve been running, a GAP 26” barrel chambered in 6GT, groups at .28< with 37.6 gr staball 6.5, just under 55psi, .002” seat at 1.970 depth bto with Berger 105vlds. Been consistent at avg mv right around 2855. Fed match mar205 primers, alpha brass.
One my second barrel now from GAP, I’ve learned to stay under the 2900fps for a consistent flat waterline.
One my second barrel now from GAP, I’ve learned to stay under the 2900fps for a consistent flat waterline.
I got 15 firings from the Hornady brass before slight case head separations occurred on 7 out of 100.
My first load with 109’s was 33.8. Switched to a new lot of Varget and warmer temps and mine started doing the same. Velocity was 2952 fps. I dropped down to the lower node of 32.6. Velocity is only 2850 now but it shoots really well and don’t have to worry about over pressure anymore.
I’m no mathmatologist so could someone explain what it means when the line thingy goes more sideways than up in one of these? There’s been a few now. Not gonna lie I didn’t know how to do it until I saw the unknown munitions one a couple posts before.
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It means nothing. It's a Rorschach test... guys see what they want to see.
Some may call it a "node" they found using their "data"... but they'd be willfully ignoring the overwhelming likelihood that the anomaly they observed was just a simple coincidence, especially since it occurred while shooting a painfully small sample size of rounds (nowhere near enough to know anything or say anything with any certainty). Some of those same guys also speak of performing tedious and ridiculous rituals as essential to breaking in a new barrel. Some even claim to have possessed lots of bullets that went to sleep on them at inopportune times. Sleeping bullets.
If you want to burn 50rds worth of components and barrel life figuring out that, with that powder in that barrel, ~33 grains nets ~2850fps, and ~34gr nets ~2950... that's cool. Just know, you could've figured that out with 2 rounds, and then loaded 48 at your preferred speed.
Combustion requires fuel (powder), more fuel means more combustion, so more powder means more speed, derp. Combustion remaining constant while adding more fuel is not a thing (ask NASA).
If you ever run into an actual person educated and practiced in combustion and propulsion at a party, see how far you can get into explaining "nodes" and/or an "OCW test" before they spit out their drink laughing...
I like that there are still some guys involved with this shit who are having fun and don't take this shit too seriously.
George to the rescue!
Speaking of 6GT, I'm just about ready to prime and charge 500 cases...
H4350 and Hornady brass, was @ 34.5 grains and typical velocity of 2700. Maybe I'll bump it up to 35.5 - 36 grains. Thoughts?
Speaking of 6GT, I'm just about ready to prime and charge 500 cases...
H4350 and Hornady brass, was @ 34.5 grains and typical velocity of 2700. Maybe I'll bump it up to 35.5 - 36 grains. Thoughts?
~2860fps has worked great for me on the last 4 barrels with H4250 and 109s.
I have no first-hand experience with 6GT just yet, but IMO, with any cartridge, that's pretty much the only reason to bother doing a ladder... to find out what it takes to get the speed you want and/or what you can have while remaining safely under the "oh shit" zone. Since I'm not as obsessed with speed as some, I don't usually load hot enough to where I'd have to worry about pressure. YMMV.
I'm curious where I want to end up speed-wise with 6GT myself..?
I've been running "only" 2900fps with 6CM for a long time now and combined with using a jump bigger than most (0.100" off), I got 2300rds out of my 1st 6CM Proof prefit barrel, and am about ~400rds into #2 of the same thing using the exact same load... I would like to get around 2300 or so out of the 6GT barrel too, more if I can... I'm just not sure which range will be best for its usable life: 2700, 2800, 2900fps... IDK?
I've got my barrel (Proof SS prefit), got my primers (CCI450's) and have got my brass (Alpha Gay Tiger), but I'm still on the fence about what powder and bullet to roll with.
I had 16lbs of RL16 in my cart this morning that was gone before I found my CC, but honestly, I'm not sure what I want to sign up for. I buy all my components for a barrel up front in bulk, enough to shoot it out, so I need to pick a bullet and find 2500 of 'em, and pick a powder and find 16lbs of it.
Life has been pretty easy using Sta-Ball in 6CM and it's worked great for me, so I may just stick with that, but since Varget is starting to become attainable again I was leaning that way, that or H4350/RL16, IDK...
I'm on the fence between DTAC 115's, 112 Match Burners and/or the 109ELD-M's too... decisions, decisions...
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I have 6.5 Stabal, Varget, & H4350 on hand, but I started the 6GT on Vit N555. Never had to hunt for a load in this thing. Works so well I've had no reason to try anything else.
38.6 of N555 with Berger 109's = 2920 from a 26" PVA. Nice case fill & is a pretty clean burning temp stable powder in my experience so far.
There was no hint of pressure signs at that speed. I just stopped there because it was a full case & saw no point in chasing speed any higher.
2800 - 2930 with Berger 105 hybrid or 109 LRHT it shoots the same tiny groups. Like you said pick your speed.
38.6 of N555 with Berger 109's = 2920 from a 26" PVA. Nice case fill & is a pretty clean burning temp stable powder in my experience so far.
There was no hint of pressure signs at that speed. I just stopped there because it was a full case & saw no point in chasing speed any higher.
2800 - 2930 with Berger 105 hybrid or 109 LRHT it shoots the same tiny groups. Like you said pick your speed.
I decided I'll see what happens with SW Precision Rifle + 112gr Match Burners in the 6GT...
I probably overpaid for the Shooter's World stuff, but finding it in-stock at Midsouth and not having to be on the seemingly endless treasure hunt for Varget does have a certain worth IMO lol. According to the John Snow article a while back, the cartridge was loosely designed around playing nice with Varget and that type of faster burn rate, so I'm curious about all that. This will be new to me since the fastest stuff I'm familiar with is H4350/RL16/Staball, but seems like loading for anything that takes Varget is a piece of cake from what guys yap about...
I went with the 112MB's simply because I've shot a boatload of them at this point and they've been great, not to mention getting a ~.305 G7 for ~$0.27 a pull. I originally bought a bunch because that's all I could find and the numbers looked like a good substitute for DTAC's (when they became unavailable/unattainable), and they've been a legit stand-in for those. I'm not going to say they're as good as Berger 109HT's or A-tips, but they're a hell of a lot better than most guys think, certainly not half as good while costing half as much. (FWIW I jump the hell out of them, 0.100" off is my go-to, I've never shot them any closer than 0.060" off.)
I'm planning to save the 6GT barrel until my current 6CM barrel is shot out, but depending on how things go this winter, who knows... Staball has been no problem for me in temps above 60degF, but in the colder months, I've had a couple of days/matches where my dope was fucked up until the temps warmed up and/or I figured it out so IDK.
I probably overpaid for the Shooter's World stuff, but finding it in-stock at Midsouth and not having to be on the seemingly endless treasure hunt for Varget does have a certain worth IMO lol. According to the John Snow article a while back, the cartridge was loosely designed around playing nice with Varget and that type of faster burn rate, so I'm curious about all that. This will be new to me since the fastest stuff I'm familiar with is H4350/RL16/Staball, but seems like loading for anything that takes Varget is a piece of cake from what guys yap about...
I went with the 112MB's simply because I've shot a boatload of them at this point and they've been great, not to mention getting a ~.305 G7 for ~$0.27 a pull. I originally bought a bunch because that's all I could find and the numbers looked like a good substitute for DTAC's (when they became unavailable/unattainable), and they've been a legit stand-in for those. I'm not going to say they're as good as Berger 109HT's or A-tips, but they're a hell of a lot better than most guys think, certainly not half as good while costing half as much. (FWIW I jump the hell out of them, 0.100" off is my go-to, I've never shot them any closer than 0.060" off.)
I'm planning to save the 6GT barrel until my current 6CM barrel is shot out, but depending on how things go this winter, who knows... Staball has been no problem for me in temps above 60degF, but in the colder months, I've had a couple of days/matches where my dope was fucked up until the temps warmed up and/or I figured it out so IDK.
I hope you have good results. That combo was stupid accurate and consistent for me. But slow
Went to the range to verify my drop with the new load. It’s not that fast but it definitely shoots good(2780fps). Our range only goes to 500yds so this’ll have to do till I get out to a friends range to check it at further distances.
Berger 109’s
Varget 32.6
CCI 450
.070 jump
Alpha brass twice fired
500yds 5 shots
450yds 3 shots
Berger 109’s
Varget 32.6
CCI 450
.070 jump
Alpha brass twice fired
500yds 5 shots
450yds 3 shots
I’d have to go back and look(haven ran that combo in awhile). But I wanna say low 2700s
+1, if you think to check your notes let us know..? ...low 2700's does sound slow...
Hodgdon shows max at 2880fps for a 110 A-tip + 34.2gr Varget (closest combo I could find)... weird.
Honestly though, if it's accurate and the barrel makes it ~2300 (hopefully more), I'll be happy running it like a slower Dasher. I've already sort of been doing the same thing in 6CM, running that like a warm Dasher, 2900ish or under, and it's been great like that.
I was planning on loading up the first 100rds at 33gr + .100" off, maybe go up a grain or 2 depending on what it nets me or if I still think it's speeding up for the next 200, maybe play with jump as I go through them 50 at a time, and hopefully end up with a load that works and a barrel that's settled in speed-wise all by the end of the first firing on 300 cases.
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Looks like I was wrong on my velocity. I can’t find my hard data. But I have 2807 listed on two different ballistic calculators
Gotcha. I've heard mixed results on it. A few others report the same issue, others, same ingredients, but all the speed and a near carbon copy to Varget performance..... Have used that powder in several other cartridges but yet to try in 6GT.
~2800fps, slinging a heavier ~.305ish G7 bullet, using low ~30-something grains, sounds awesome.
I know guys are getting good results with 6GT using H4350/RL16/StaBall,etc but using those type of powders that live in the "medium burn-rate club" is part of why I stayed with 6CM for longer than some (that, and I already had a bunch of LRP's to roll with).
I have a theory, and I might be full of shit here, since I don't have any experience with it yet... but: I've always noticed that a lot of the cartridges guys yap on and on about being a piece of cake to load for and that get tiny SD/ES's with relative ease like Dasher, BR, BRA, BRX, besides all being shorter and having steeper shoulders, all feature Varget as one of their key ingredients in their "traditional recipes".
I'm hoping I can tap into some of that "Varget magic" with the 6GT (which I really couldn't explore in 6CM). Or at least, in this case: "Shooter's World Precision Rifle magic" since it's the next best thing.
All I know is Varget is always sold out, supposedly for good reason, and this stuff wasn't, and it takes ~4 grains less to net the same speeds, which is about the difference between Varget and the other medium-ish powders I'd use. I'm also curious if less grains equals less recoil, I don't think it necessarily will, but IDK? So I guess it's worth a try.
Who knows, maybe there's something to it? I believe in magic about as much as I believe in "nodes", but there could be something unique happening there when using a faster burning powder in a smaller case that it'd take people much smarter than me to explain, maybe a unique way or how fast the pressure builds or something like that... obviously/certainly science, not magic lol.
I know guys are getting good results with 6GT using H4350/RL16/StaBall,etc but using those type of powders that live in the "medium burn-rate club" is part of why I stayed with 6CM for longer than some (that, and I already had a bunch of LRP's to roll with).
I have a theory, and I might be full of shit here, since I don't have any experience with it yet... but: I've always noticed that a lot of the cartridges guys yap on and on about being a piece of cake to load for and that get tiny SD/ES's with relative ease like Dasher, BR, BRA, BRX, besides all being shorter and having steeper shoulders, all feature Varget as one of their key ingredients in their "traditional recipes".
I'm hoping I can tap into some of that "Varget magic" with the 6GT (which I really couldn't explore in 6CM). Or at least, in this case: "Shooter's World Precision Rifle magic" since it's the next best thing.
All I know is Varget is always sold out, supposedly for good reason, and this stuff wasn't, and it takes ~4 grains less to net the same speeds, which is about the difference between Varget and the other medium-ish powders I'd use. I'm also curious if less grains equals less recoil, I don't think it necessarily will, but IDK? So I guess it's worth a try.
Who knows, maybe there's something to it? I believe in magic about as much as I believe in "nodes", but there could be something unique happening there when using a faster burning powder in a smaller case that it'd take people much smarter than me to explain, maybe a unique way or how fast the pressure builds or something like that... obviously/certainly science, not magic lol.
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Anyone got load data for the 6GT with lighter bullets - somewhere around 70g grains? I know thats not really the intended use of the gay tiger, but I have a lot of 6mm bullets around the 70 grain weight, and I am thinking I will use them to shoot 100 yard drills to save my supply of 100gn + weight bullets.
Has anyone run IMR 4064? I have a ton of it and I plan on a 6GT build shortly. I ALWAYS seem to miss out on Varget and H4350 when they are available but seem to accidently stumble across 4064 all the time... While it is similar to Varget in burn rate, they are 2 different powders so any input on running it would be appreciated.
Alright brotatochips. Had to “qualify” the new rifle for the 1000 yard range per our range rules. Sub MOA 5 shot group at 100 yards and filling out a drop chart is all you need to do before you can take her to the 1k yard line. Then trued out the load in the kestrel and it said MV:2898 labradar said the 20 shot SD was 5.2. So do you fellas think my bullets are asleep or whatever?
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I almost missed the joke. For a minute there I couldn't figure out how shooting sub-MOA at 1000 yards and truing your load in a Kestrel turned into a pic of a 100 yard group lol.
An SD of 5.2 over 20 shots is awesome, but what did the results look like at 1000 yards (group/waterline, bench/prone, etc)..?
Here's an SD of 7 (ES of 17) at 1250 yards, calm conditions (5-8ish mph), bench/bipod/rear bag, not much idea what it does at 100 yards, but I doubt it's too awful, 2 out of 3 touched in BOTH groups I shot zeroing it. I pulled the load out of my ass: I used 41 grains for no particular reason, just picked a number out of thin air, jumping 0.100" to the lands:
THAT is a sick set-up. Yeah it's a procedure that the range has to make sure some 'ol boy doesn't yeet one out of his gran-dads 30-06 off the property. Gotta go sub moa at 100 and fill out a drop card to make sure you even know what that is. Out here in West Virginia we don't have target cams and cant drive down to the steel on that range, so it's all gotta be through the spotting scope. I'll say I'm confident in how she's holding out at 1k as after getting a firm waterline on a clean 12 inch plate started getting too easy, I started going for headshots on the ipsic target as that was the only part of it that wasn't all shot to shit. What range is that anyway I'm seriously jealous?!?
That's Strategic Edge in Chapel Hill TN, best range ever, pretty much one of the only reasons one would want to live in TN lol.
Just FYI, I wasn't trying to one-up or be a dick (well, maybe just being snarky since I thought you might have been taking a shot at me b/c I did make a comment about sleeping bullets earlier in the thread... lol).
I think those pics demonstrate better than I ever could put into words why I question many of these old "truths" guys use when talking about reloading... I've been hearing for a long, long time that one has to be .020" off the lands (or closer) and have just the right amount of powder to land in a "node" for a rifle to shoot.
Nope.
I honestly really am interested in what different guys' results are with their stuff at range, especially when they get crazy chrono numbers. JMHO but guys talk about single-digit SD's seemingly all the time, but most times we don't get to see much of what that actually looks like downrange...
Just FYI, I wasn't trying to one-up or be a dick (well, maybe just being snarky since I thought you might have been taking a shot at me b/c I did make a comment about sleeping bullets earlier in the thread... lol).
I think those pics demonstrate better than I ever could put into words why I question many of these old "truths" guys use when talking about reloading... I've been hearing for a long, long time that one has to be .020" off the lands (or closer) and have just the right amount of powder to land in a "node" for a rifle to shoot.
Nope.
I honestly really am interested in what different guys' results are with their stuff at range, especially when they get crazy chrono numbers. JMHO but guys talk about single-digit SD's seemingly all the time, but most times we don't get to see much of what that actually looks like downrange...
Anything under 12 ish is literally just showing off in my opinion. I’ve won belly matches or long range challenges with sd’s of 18. It does help the mental game of literally just having to work the wind and the rest is put to bed though. Which is probably worth more than the single digit sd in and of itself.
Well, for anyone who's interested, I ended up using 33.5gn of IMR 8208 XBR (Benchmark 8208 powder in Australia) with Fed 205M primers to load up some 66gn BT match bullets I had on hand. That load was listed as a minimum load for a 6Dasher and I figured it was worth a try. In my rifle that was a max load, but a custom action may well handle a bit more powder.
The load worked well for 100 meter training. Just out of interest I tried it on the 500 meter gong, but not surprisingly the wind really pushed it around. But it achieved its purpose for training drills at 100 yards.
Loaded up some H4350 36.5 grains with SMK 107s. Tried them in 3 different 6mm GT rifles yesterday. Average velocity was about 2860, thought this would have gotten me to 2900+. Two of the rifles did better then the 35 grains I tried last week. Everything shot from bipod on a bench and warmed up with the 35 grain load first. Here's some of the results.
Oddy enough, my Curtis Valor Preferred the 35 grain loading, which was about 2760.
The rest of these are all from 36.5 grains.
Pulled this one a bit..
Oddy enough, my Curtis Valor Preferred the 35 grain loading, which was about 2760.
The rest of these are all from 36.5 grains.
Pulled this one a bit..
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36 gr of 4350 and 108s or 109s gets me right at 2900.Loaded up some H4350 36.5 grains with SMK 107s. Tried them in 3 different 6mm GT rifles yesterday. Average velocity was about 2860, thought this would have gotten me to 2900+. Two of the rifles did better then the 35 grains I tried last week. Everything shot from bipod on a bench and warmed up with the 35 grain load first. Here's some of the results.
Oddy enough, my Curtis Valor Preferred the 35 grain loading, which was about 2760.
View attachment 7941399
The rest of these are all from 36.5 grains.
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View attachment 7941405
Pulled this one a bit..
View attachment 7941409
Loaded up some H4350 36.5 grains with SMK 107s. Tried them in 3 different 6mm GT rifles yesterday. Average velocity was about 2860, thought this would have gotten me to 2900+. Two of the rifles did better then the 35 grains I tried last week. Everything shot from bipod on a bench and warmed up with the 35 grain load first. Here's some of the results.
Oddy enough, my Curtis Valor Preferred the 35 grain loading, which was about 2760.
View attachment 7941399
The rest of these are all from 36.5 grains.
View attachment 7941400
View attachment 7941401
View attachment 7941404
View attachment 7941405
Pulled this one a bit..
View attachment 7941409
~1" or less at 200 yards isn't too bad, and it's cool that you're shooting those groups at 200... because I feel like way too many guys spend too much time and energy dicking around at just 100 when we're supposed to be building these things for going much further out.
Hogdon shows more like 38gr for 2900fps (with a wonky 24" 7.7T of course
), so your speed isn't far off... maybe see if you can get some "free speed" from a little more neck tension, if you even need it (might be fast enough), IDK?
Results are in, 20 fired and resized Hornady 6gt cases has an SD of 6.8fps ES of 29 in my rifle... verses 20 new Alpha cases resulting in a SD of 4.7 and ES of 20.
To be fair the Hornady brass has about 7 cycles on it but I was very impressed that the Alpha did so well. I did run an expander mandrel through the necks first prior to loading the virgin Alpha brass.
Rl 15.5 at 33.0 grains with 109 Berger Hybrids, 2793fps out of a 24" Bartlein mod400 barrel with 2301 rounds on it as of this firing.
Since every post should have a picture here are 5 at 500 and 5 at 700 of the alpha brass.
To be fair the Hornady brass has about 7 cycles on it but I was very impressed that the Alpha did so well. I did run an expander mandrel through the necks first prior to loading the virgin Alpha brass.
Rl 15.5 at 33.0 grains with 109 Berger Hybrids, 2793fps out of a 24" Bartlein mod400 barrel with 2301 rounds on it as of this firing.
Since every post should have a picture here are 5 at 500 and 5 at 700 of the alpha brass.
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But a rifle that don't shoot small at 100, isn't going to magically shoot small further out. A gun that's 1/3 moa at 100y with ES in the teens, should be a half moa gun at 700y. I have done it multiple ways, 500y ladders to find velocity nodes, the testing seating depth at 400y(perfect weather is required) then I've done strictly 100y load development using a barrel tuner. 800y groups on paper were consistently similar with both methods. This was with similar cartridges, 6gt and 6bra.~1" or less at 200 yards isn't too bad, and it's cool that you're shooting those groups at 200... because I feel like way too many guys spend too much time and energy dicking around at just 100 when we're supposed to be building these things for going much further out.
Hogdon shows more like 38gr for 2900fps (with a wonky 24" 7.7T of course
View attachment 7941447
I don't think 100yrd groups are useless or anything, I mean "cone of fire" is a thing lol. I guess I'm just of the opinion that many guys spend far too much time on them while ignoring that the human pulling the trigger more than likely has more influence over the results than anything in their load recipe.
In a perfect world we'd all have ransom rests at our clubs that we could lock our guns into in order to take the human out of the equation... but short of that, one's performance pulling the trigger and whether or not they "shot well" (and, to an extent, the weather conditions) always corrupts the results.
To each his own, there's no wrong way as long as one is honest with themselves about how much the group size has to do with them vs the load.
For me, I kind of suck at shooting groups (and am not too interested in burning up my components getting better at it), so once I think I have something that looks promising... I use a little IPSC at 750yrds to tell me if I'm full of shit or not lol:
Consider yourself fortunate!
Most don’t have 750 yards and a calm day at their disposal to test loads. If the SDs are good and it shoots small groups at 100, it’ll shoot small groups at distance also.
On a non load data note, I was having a hell of a time chambering the first round out of a full AI mag in my TL3, accurate mag was better but, just ok. Then I tried the MDT 12 rounder with the binder plate and it’s like buttah. Anyone else had this experience?
Impact 737
Bartlein 7.5 @ 26
109 ELDM
Alpha brass
CCI 450
H4350 36.5gr
.1 jump
Avg 2820
SD 3.1
ES 8
5 shots at 100 .269
Just shy of 800 rds on the barrel
Trues out to 500yd spot on
Bartlein 7.5 @ 26
109 ELDM
Alpha brass
CCI 450
H4350 36.5gr
.1 jump
Avg 2820
SD 3.1
ES 8
5 shots at 100 .269
Just shy of 800 rds on the barrel
Trues out to 500yd spot on
