Accuracy International Picture Thread

[HKSniper11B]

No big offense to you, but are you capable of .6" 10rd groups consistently? I'd pick the ammo that's shooting best right now that you can get a lot of and get plenty of trigger time before you list criteria like that.

As for torque, many of us found 55inlb was a more constant torque when swapping barrels. Once it's clamped in at 49 or 65 the accuracy won't change, it just effects the repeatable poi when swapping.

Short answer: yes. 0.6MOA on a good day, 0.85MOA on a bad day. So, picking the right ammo to stock up on is my priority.

This is the sole time I was ever able to group Hornady TAP ELD Precision 168gr well; it was like a laser beam and felt effortless. This one box shot well the entire day across the board. This was in March 2024, and I haven't been able to replicate it since. I'm trying to get it to work again as it is the ammo I wish to use while also having the best BC and features for long range.	The entire day shooting Fed. GMM SMK 175gr was consistent like this with the 20" Walther barrel. If I had to grab just one ammo today I could count on, it'd be this. But, it has the worst range and BC.
This has been the current trend with Hornady TAP ELD Precision 168gr, tested with both the 20" and 24" barrel. Since removing and retorquing the barrels on both rifles, the groups have shrunk from 4MOA down to this. The 24" likes it a lot more, and without the flier, it would have been a 0.8 MOA group. I need to get more of the ammo and test more for a greater set of data.	Both rifles now, strangely, like Hornady Black A-Max 168gr: 20" above, 24" below. They were shooting around 2 MOA prior. This is was unexpected and also needs more shot data.

Considering these are 1/2 to 1/4 MOA rifles, this isn't hard to accomplish -- with the right ammo -- and I've been transparent on here, on r/LongRange and on Instagram with all my shot data. What I'm struggling to wrestle with are the quirks of a 1:12 twist barrel with modern ammunition. And so far, the 20" rifle feels different from the 24" which I'm also trying to understand: the 24" is notably easier to shoot, easier to handle.

There's gotta be guys here with years upon years of Arctic Warfare AW308 experience who can lend their thoughts, yea? What have been your experiences? What are you old dogs using besides custom loads? What factory ammo did you love best for your AWs? Right now, the best option I have is "Go with Fed. GMM SMK 175gr and accept being limited to 800 yards effective, 900 yards max." And I'm not satisfied with that.

 

[sidetoss20]

Short answer: yes. 0.6MOA on a good day, 0.85MOA on a bad day. So, picking the right ammo to stock up on is my priority.

View attachment 8503766 This is the sole time I was ever able to group Hornady TAP ELD Precision 168gr well; it was like a laser beam and felt effortless. This one box shot well the entire day across the board. This was in March 2024, and I haven't been able to replicate it since. I'm tring to get it to work again.	View attachment 8503767 The entire day shooting Fed. GMM SMK 175gr was consistent like this with the 20" Walther barrel. If I had to grab just one ammo today I could count on, it'd be this. But, it has the worst range and BC.
View attachment 8503768 This has been the current trend with Hornady TAP ELD Precision 168gr, tested with both the 20" and 24" barrel. Since removing and retorquing the barrels on both rifles, the groups have shrunk from 4MOA down to this. The 24" likes it a lot more, and without the flier, it would have been a 0.8 MOA group. I need to get more of the ammo and test more for a greater set of data.	View attachment 8503769 Both rifles now, strangely, like Hornady Black A-Max 168gr: 20" above, 24" below. They were shooting around 2 MOA prior. This is was unexpected and also needs more shot data.

Considering these are 1/2 to 1/4 MOA rifles, this isn't hard to accomplish -- with the right ammo -- and I've been transparent on here, on r/LongRange and on Instagram with all my shot data. What I'm struggling to wrestle with are the quirks of a 1:12 twist barrel with modern ammunition. And so far, the 20" rifle feels different from the 24" which I'm also trying to understand: the 24" is notably easier to shoot, easier to handle.

There's gotta be guys here with years upon years of Arctic Warfare AW308 experience who can lend their thoughts, yea? Right now, the best option I have is "Go with Fed. GMM SMK 175gr and accept being limited to 800 yards effective, 900 yards max." And I'm not satisfied with that.

If you’re open to handloading, I know that some tac-class guys in PRS push 178s around 2800 fps to stay super out to 1k. It’d be hot out of the 24” as I think this is usually done out of a 26 or 28.

 

[MK20]

You will NOT be limited on range with 175 FGMM. That stuff is 2700 fps out of a 24". I learned to shoot with Jacob Bynum shooting m118lr at sea level and that stuff is going 2550 fps. We could still get to 1k. You will easily be able to hit 1K with 175 FGMM and your barrel loves it. It should shoot in the .2 to .3 range with it in the 1:12 barrel.

If you ever get the itch to get rid of that factory 1:12 let me know and I'll buy it. I love those LW barrels.

 

[HKSniper11B]

You will NOT be limited on range with 175 FGMM. That stuff is 2700 fps out of a 24". I learned to shoot with Jacob Bynum shooting m118lr at sea level and that stuff is going 2550 fps. We could still get to 1k. You will easily be able to hit 1K with 175 FGMM and your barrel loves it. It should shoot in the .2 to .3 range with it in the 1:12 barrel.

If you ever get the itch to get rid of that factory 1:12 let me know and I'll buy it. I love those LW barrels.

I'm getting 2512FPS from the 20" barrel. I wasn't able to record proper velocities from the 24" and redoing that is a priority of mine. But I'm suspecting around 2600FPS. With the 20" barrel, FGMM is going transonic right at 800 yards, and subsonic at 1000 yards. With the 24" barrel, FGMM is trans at 825 yards and subsonic at 1025 yards. Effectively hitting within the transonic range is not easy to do.

 

[MK20]

My factory barrel is 2750 with 175 FGMM.

Where do you live that a 175 is going transsonic at 800?

That 175 at 2550 is still going 1175 at 1000 in a standard atmosphere.

Do you live in Death Valley when it is freezing or something? It is pretty hard to get an atmosphere that dense.

 

[HKSniper11B]

My factory barrel is 2750 with 175 FGMM.

Where do you live that a 175 is going transsonic at 800?

That 175 at 2550 is still going 1175 at 1000 in a standard atmosphere.

Do you live in Death Valley when it is freezing or something? It is pretty hard to get an atmosphere that dense.

Altitude is 1050 ft. I double checked latest data from my chronograph, and since reseating the barrel, the 20" is getting 2550fps from Fed. GMM SMK 175gr; I've gained 50-75fps since the reseating and retorquing of it. I don't currently have data on the 24" barrel, as it got corrupted and didn't capture the velocities.

 

[Dr. Strangeglove]

All I shoot right now is FGMM 175gr .308 and it's consistently around 2600 in my 24" (1/10 and 1/12) and 26" (1/10) barrels. @MK20 are you sure you're getting 2750 from FGMM .308 and not the 7.62? Because that's the only way I was able to get anything over 2700.

Regardless, @HKSniper11B you'd do fine with the 175gr SMK even if it is going transonic. Frankly, I think the accuracy gain you've demonstrated with that ammo will outweigh the ballistic advantage going with something else. That said, have you tried the 185 FGMM yet?

 

[xxflyingturtlexx]

View attachment 8503615

Ammo testing with 20" and 24" Lothar Walther 1:12 Twist barrels AT308s. They seem to like Federal Gold Medal match 175gr, and Norma Golden Target 175gr. The 24" barrel really likes Hornady Black A-Max 168gr but, I'm still testing to see how true this is. I still can't get either AT308 to shoot real well with Hornady TAP ELD Precision 168gr, but the tan AT is getting 0.8MOA from it, while I need to do more testing to know what the green AT can do.

I've removed and reinstalled both barrels, and torqued to 49 inch/lbs with Fixit Stick dedicated torque limiter. Tan rifle was 2 click, Green rifle 3 click to slightly over-torque. I'm still trying to find one round for both that 1) groups 0.6 MOA or better (10 round) and 2) gets me to 1000 yards effectively, 900 yards consistent. At this point, I'm completely open to factory ammo suggestions that both barrels would like. I'm considering a heavier ELD round, going with Hornady Precision Hunter ELD-x 178gr. If anyone has experience with this ammo from the Walther barrels, can you tell me about it?

I saw this on IG and just gave you a follow, small world

 

[HKSniper11B]

All I shoot right now is FGMM 175gr .308 and it's consistently around 2600 in my 24" (1/10 and 1/12) and 26" (1/10) barrels. @MK20 are you sure you're getting 2750 from FGMM .308 and not the 7.62? Because that's the only way I was able to get anything over 2700.

Regardless, @HKSniper11B you'd do fine with the 175gr SMK even if it is going transonic. Frankly, I think the accuracy gain you've demonstrated with that ammo will outweigh the ballistic advantage going with something else. That said, have you tried the 185 FGMM yet?

I was seriously thinking the same thing, but never said it out loud: that the accuracy gain from FGMM SMK 175gr outweighs the ballistic advantage of something else. That just might end up being the answer.

Haven't tried 185gr Federal Bergers. I recall another member testing that ammo, and it was insanely wild. I believe 180gr and under will be the best I can work with. Hornady Precision Hunter ELD-X 178gr is still being considered. I just need to get out and grab a box or two already.

 

[Dr. Strangeglove]

I was seriously thinking the same thing, but never said it out loud: that the accuracy gain from FGMM SMK 175gr outweighs the ballistic advantage of something else. That just might end up being the answer.

Haven't tried 185gr Federal Bergers. I recall another member testing that ammo, and it was insanely wild. I believe 180gr and under will be the best I can work with. Hornady Precision Hunter ELD-X 178gr is still being considered. I just need to get out and grab a box or two already.

I was getting better accuracy from IMI 175gr than anything else but higher SD/ES, ended up going with FGMM as it shot better at distance and kept me in Tac Class for PRS.

The 185's shoot great out of my LW 24" barrel though so if you're not limiting yourself for PRS or something then you should give them a fair shake.

And most importantly, shoot groups at distance!

(Not me, just my rifle)

 

[HKSniper11B]

I was getting better accuracy from IMI 175gr than anything else but higher SD/ES, ended up going with FGMM as it shot better at distance and kept me in Tac Class for PRS.

The 185's shoot great out of my LW 24" barrel though so if you're not limiting yourself for PRS or something then you should give them a fair shake.

And most importantly, shoot groups at distance!

View attachment 8503913
(Not me, just my rifle)

Max distance I have right now is 300 yards. Waiting on the 700 yard range to open up. I'm gonna have to try out a box of 185gr. I have a dozen boxes. If I can get that to work well? That would be the perfect round to use. I just hope it can stablize well enough out that far despite the 1:12 twist. This input helped a lot man. Thank you!

 

[M8541Reaper]

You will NOT be limited on range with 175 FGMM. That stuff is 2700 fps out of a 24". I learned to shoot with Jacob Bynum shooting m118lr at sea level and that stuff is going 2550 fps. We could still get to 1k. You will easily be able to hit 1K with 175 FGMM and your barrel loves it. It should shoot in the .2 to .3 range with it in the 1:12 barrel.

If you ever get the itch to get rid of that factory 1:12 let me know and I'll buy it. I love those LW barrels.

All you guys getting over 2600 from 175FGMM in a 24” can go take a long hike off a tall building.

 

[Dr. Strangeglove]

I'm getting the same numbers from my 24", maybe up to 2615 depending on the lot. My 26" gives me 2620-2630. I have a 20" that does like 2550-2560.

If you can get some of the 7.62 be ready to ride the lightning.

Edit for pics.

 

[HKSniper11B]

All you guys getting over 2600 from 175FGMM in a 24” can go take a long hike off a tall building.

View attachment 8503920

This is consistent from what I recall seeing from my 24" 1:12 Walther. But I lost the data so cannot confirm, so seeing this helps.

 

[HKSniper11B]

I'm getting the same numbers from my 24", maybe up to 2615 depending on the lot. My 26" gives me 2620-2630. I have a 20" that does like 2550-2560.

If you can get some of the 7.62 be ready to ride the lightning.

I better go hit up some B4s to find some real M118LR thats fallen off a supply truck.

 

[diggler1833]

All you guys getting over 2600 from 175FGMM in a 24” can go take a long hike off a tall building.

View attachment 8503920

Your results mirror mine (but in a Remington Defense 1:11.25, 5R). It is still 24" however.

 

[JINm40a1]

Short answer: yes. 0.6MOA on a good day, 0.85MOA on a bad day. So, picking the right ammo to stock up on is my priority.

View attachment 8503766 This is the sole time I was ever able to group Hornady TAP ELD Precision 168gr well; it was like a laser beam and felt effortless. This one box shot well the entire day across the board. This was in March 2024, and I haven't been able to replicate it since. I'm trying to get it to work again as it is the ammo I wish to use while also having the best BC and features for long range.

View attachment 8503767 The entire day shooting Fed. GMM SMK 175gr was consistent like this with the 20" Walther barrel. If I had to grab just one ammo today I could count on, it'd be this. But, it has the worst range and BC.

View attachment 8503768 This has been the current trend with Hornady TAP ELD Precision 168gr, tested with both the 20" and 24" barrel. Since removing and retorquing the barrels on both rifles, the groups have shrunk from 4MOA down to this. The 24" likes it a lot more, and without the flier, it would have been a 0.8 MOA group. I need to get more of the ammo and test more for a greater set of data.

View attachment 8503769 Both rifles now, strangely, like Hornady Black A-Max 168gr: 20" above, 24" below. They were shooting around 2 MOA prior. This is was unexpected and also needs more shot data.

Considering these are 1/2 to 1/4 MOA rifles, this isn't hard to accomplish -- with the right ammo -- and I've been transparent on here, on r/LongRange and on Instagram with all my shot data. What I'm struggling to wrestle with are the quirks of a 1:12 twist barrel with modern ammunition. And so far, the 20" rifle feels different from the 24" which I'm also trying to understand: the 24" is notably easier to shoot, easier to handle.

There's gotta be guys here with years upon years of Arctic Warfare AW308 experience who can lend their thoughts, yea? What have been your experiences? What are you old dogs using besides custom loads? What factory ammo did you love best for your AWs? Right now, the best option I have is "Go with Fed. GMM SMK 175gr and accept being limited to 800 yards effective, 900 yards max." And I'm not satisfied with that.

you are not limited to only 800 yards with GM308M2 out of a 20 inch AT. I have the same set up that shoots GM308M2 right around 2500 FPS printing .8 moa groups at 100M and I am able to hit a 30inch square steel at 1000M very consistently. With 14 mils adjustment on elevation, the bullet indeed gets heavily effected by wind, but it is still very capable out to 1000M.

 

[HKSniper11B]

you are not limited to only 800 yards with GM308M2 out of a 20 inch AT. I have the same set up that shoots GM308M2 right around 2500 FPS printing .8 moa groups at 100M and I am able to hit a 30inch square steel at 1000M very consistently. With 14 mils adjustment on elevation, the bullet indeed gets heavily effected by wind, but it is still very capable out to 1000M. View attachment 8503954View attachment 8503955View attachment 8503956

This gives me a LOT of hope man. And this is exactly the kind of information and feedback I needed. Thank you!

 

[hafejd30]

This is 178 ELDX out of a 1:12 LW 20”
Handloads
2-3 shot groups at 100. Both about 3/8”

 

[HKSniper11B]

Serial numbers were blurred out.
It took a while to properly build these, but it is a 9.5"x4.5"x3" cleaning kit that holds everything. It is a children's school pencil case that originally came with a hook-loop American flag on it. The new Label Patch was custom made from Tactical Gear Junkies.

* Torque Tools are from Fixit Sticks, for scope and barrel screw
* Hex Keys are from Klein, with two separate keys for the scope (in my case, 3/32nds for Leupold turrets)
* Barrel wrench is from Gedore in Germant, a rubberized and chromed medical wrench, chosen so it doesn't marr or scuff the barrel
* Cleaning kit is from OTIS, their base kit that has bronze rods, with added nylon bore brushes
* Factory Accuracy International milled aluminum bore guide, imported from the UK. The US version is polymer.
* Hoppe's Viper Boresnake; Pro-Shot 2" bore cleaning patches
* Lens brush and microfiber cleaning cloth included

If anyone wants specific part numbers and websites to get each item, let me know and I'll do the work to update this post with everything. But I figured this is something that everyone here would want to see put together and possibly replicate.

 

[HKSniper11B]

This is 178 ELDX out of a 1:12 LW 20”
Handloads
2-3 shot groups at 100. Both about 3/8”
View attachment 8503972View attachment 8503981

View attachment 8503971

Holy crap. Alright, that actually gives me a lot of hope. As those ELD-X rounds are pretty much "1000 yards all day long" from what I'm seeing from my AP ballistics calculator. Its impressive how tight it groups!

 

[hafejd30]

Holy crap. Alright, that actually gives me a lot of hope. As those ELD-X rounds are pretty much "1000 yards all day long" from what I'm seeing from my AP ballistics calculator. Its impressive how tight it groups!

Not saying factory ammo will shoot like this. I don’t take these to 1000 as they’re just deer droppers. But it will hold 1/2 moa at 300 yards on a good day

 

[MK20]

Holy crap. Alright, that actually gives me a lot of hope. As those ELD-X rounds are pretty much "1000 yards all day long" from what I'm seeing from my AP ballistics calculator. Its impressive how tight it groups

I would strongly warn you to test these in your barrel first. My 24" barrel starts popping primers with Hornady 178s at 2500 fps while spitting sierra 175s at 2720 all day long with primers still nice and round.

 

[HKSniper11B]

I would strongly warn you to test these in your barrel first. My 24" barrel starts popping primers with Hornady 178s at 2500 fps while spitting sierra 175s at 2720 all day long with primers still nice and round.

To confirm: this is from a factory AI Lothar Walther 24" 1:12 twist barrel?

 

[MK20]

Yes.

 

[MK20]

I even pulled a factory FGMM 175 and replaced it with a brand new hornady 178 BTHP bullet and it still blew primers. I tried handloads, I tried varying seating depth.

It was blowing primers with the Hornady at starting loads.

 

[Criver600]

Short answer: yes. 0.6MOA on a good day, 0.85MOA on a bad day. So, picking the right ammo to stock up on is my priority.

View attachment 8503766 This is the sole time I was ever able to group Hornady TAP ELD Precision 168gr well; it was like a laser beam and felt effortless. This one box shot well the entire day across the board. This was in March 2024, and I haven't been able to replicate it since. I'm trying to get it to work again as it is the ammo I wish to use while also having the best BC and features for long range.

View attachment 8503767 The entire day shooting Fed. GMM SMK 175gr was consistent like this with the 20" Walther barrel. If I had to grab just one ammo today I could count on, it'd be this. But, it has the worst range and BC.

View attachment 8503768 This has been the current trend with Hornady TAP ELD Precision 168gr, tested with both the 20" and 24" barrel. Since removing and retorquing the barrels on both rifles, the groups have shrunk from 4MOA down to this. The 24" likes it a lot more, and without the flier, it would have been a 0.8 MOA group. I need to get more of the ammo and test more for a greater set of data.

View attachment 8503769 Both rifles now, strangely, like Hornady Black A-Max 168gr: 20" above, 24" below. They were shooting around 2 MOA prior. This is was unexpected and also needs more shot data.

Considering these are 1/2 to 1/4 MOA rifles, this isn't hard to accomplish -- with the right ammo -- and I've been transparent on here, on r/LongRange and on Instagram with all my shot data. What I'm struggling to wrestle with are the quirks of a 1:12 twist barrel with modern ammunition. And so far, the 20" rifle feels different from the 24" which I'm also trying to understand: the 24" is notably easier to shoot, easier to handle.

There's gotta be guys here with years upon years of Arctic Warfare AW308 experience who can lend their thoughts, yea? What have been your experiences? What are you old dogs using besides custom loads? What factory ammo did you love best for your AWs? Right now, the best option I have is "Go with Fed. GMM SMK 175gr and accept being limited to 800 yards effective, 900 yards max." And I'm not satisfied with that.

Factory ammunition used to be #1 Lapua 167 Scenar consistently 1/2 moa, Federal GM Match 175 Sierra MK, Black Hills 175 Sierra MK.
"Handloads money loads" Winchester .308 brass, Fed 210 GM Primer, Varget, and either a 175 Sierra MK or the 155 MK Palma. Typically 32 pounds of the same lot of Varget it was time for a new barrel

 

[FUNCTIONAL]

From a 25" schneider 1/12 I was at 2695 and connecting at 1k no problem.

In a 20" 1/10 it's about 2550 and a 18.5" 1/10 2460.

Ran it through my 16.5 recently but never recorded velocity

Edit: to clarify this was with 175 fgmm

 

[HKSniper11B]

I'm throwing this into the hat as I pulled out my targets from the last range session:

Norma Golden Target (GTX) 175gr .308 for the Lothar-Walther 1:12 barrels, 20" and 24". Putting the data here so hopefully someone else can find it useful. I think it could group tighter, on a day with no wind and better fundamentals by the shooter. It has an unusually high BC of 0.547 G1 and a length of 1.236", shorter than the 175gr SMKs 1.24".

 

[TheOE800]

Reasonable SD in that lot. I don’t have any of the 308 but my 6.5 stuff is over 20ft SD, but the price was right.

 

[Islas82]

I have a 16.5" 6.5creed barrel and get 2560fps with a 140smk. Just slapped the load together I'm sure you can get a bit more out of it. Really fun setup. No problem to 1k, acts a bit like a slower 308 though with 140s. 142s and a bit more speed would do excellent.

For the pic chick's.

View attachment 8468737

Who makes that spigot?

 

[clubsportmark]

Elite iron?

 

[FUNCTIONAL]

@Islas82 yes, elite iron. They make an arca version also.

 

[MidsouthHunter]

There will be more content showcasing this rifle at the_bad_vibe_tribe instagram page and Bad Vibe Tribe YouTube in the coming months.

 

[Terrence01]

@Islas82 yes, elite iron. They make an arca version also.

I don't know if you'll get this or not

 

[TheOtherAndrew]

 

[TheOtherAndrew]

@HKSniper11B - 20" barrel: she loves them 185 juggs (doubleD - that's 2)...slippin out the crown at ~2580fps (PS Mills Fleet Farm had(s) them for $1.6per). No problem with 1000yd @ mid 10's running just a tad behind the normal curve of 400yd @0.5s, 700y @ 1s, 1000y @1.5 with Strelok saying 1.6x but still holding ~730ft-lbs...

clip on thermal w/ easy 1st rd connections at 600yd (2MOA tgt)

@BurtG ever consider taking a sawzall to your forend - "just the tip" and get a 14"CF bbl (P&W@16ATFyakunts)? I need you to tell me the water is fine before I jump on that

 

[Huskydriver]

@HKSniper11B - 20" barrel: she loves them 185 juggs (doubleD - that's 2)...slippin out the crown at ~2580fps (PS Mills Fleet Farm had(s) them for $1.6per). No problem with 1000yd @ mid 10's running just a tad behind the normal curve of 400yd @0.5s, 700y @ 1s, 1000y @1.5 with Strelok saying 1.6x but still holding ~730ft-lbs...

clip on thermal w/ easy 1st rd connections at 600yd (2MOA tgt)

@BurtG ever consider taking a sawzall to your forend - "just the tip" and get a 14"CF bbl (P&W@16ATFyakunts)? I need you to tell me the water is fine before I jump on that

Pretty sure our boy did that chop already.... @SkyScrapin

 

[M8541Reaper]

just use the 7 axis dremel like a man.

 

[BurtG]

I reach out and use a big stick. None of that sbr bolt gun nonsense for me

 

[HKSniper11B]

@HKSniper11B - 20" barrel: she loves them 185 juggs (doubleD - that's 2)...slippin out the crown at ~2580fps (PS Mills Fleet Farm had(s) them for $1.6per). No problem with 1000yd @ mid 10's running just a tad behind the normal curve of 400yd @0.5s, 700y @ 1s, 1000y @1.5 with Strelok saying 1.6x but still holding ~730ft-lbs...

clip on thermal w/ easy 1st rd connections at 600yd (2MOA tgt)

Yup, and you have a Bartlein/WinTac 1:10 twist 5R barrel, which is exactly why your AT-X likes 185gr; that round is perfect for that barrel. If I had the same barrel, much of what I'm asking would be moot.

185gr Berger Juggernauts won't stabilize well enough in the older Lothar-Walther 4R 1:12 twist barrel, used on the Arctic Warfare, and AT308. And evidence of this can be seen -- compared with the Fed. GMM SMK 175gr -- on the Berger Bullet Stability Calculator: https://bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/

So unless you got an Arctic Warfare or Anti-Terrorist in your collection to talk dirty about, your info doesn't help much.

 

[TheOtherAndrew]

why not just get the $600 barrel?

ive been in hibernation or awhile but im still lost as to why this is a big deal

and sorry for giving you 2 seconds of my time @HKSniper11B ?? maybe find a different tone Im just trying to help you

 

[HKSniper11B]

why not just get the $600 barrel?

ive been in hibernation or awhile but im still lost as to why this is a big deal

and sorry for giving you 2 seconds of my time @HKSniper11B ?? maybe find a different tone Im just trying to help you

The ballistics are notably different in the Bartlein 5R 1:10 twist barrels, and superior to boot. Unfortunately, they are out of stock and are slowly being caught up. I spoke to Bartlein personally inquiring, but it'll be a while. Next year sometime, is what I heard. Further, they're in the $900-1000 range in price, $791 with my military discount. And as long as I'm spending money changing things, I could just switch to a better caliber, or change to a different rifle altogether. But that isn't the point, so I digress...

The Lothar-Walther barrel is extremely capable. What's baffled me is how few on SH and elsewhere have documented ballistics with it, even reviewing this thread and others from many years past. That said, the standard was 168gr FGMM for a long time, along with Black Hills 168gr. And, many at that time saw 800-900 yards as the limit regardless. Even just 10 to 20 years ago, ballistic expectations were different. Recall that the Accuracy International PM was designed to shoot (UPDATED): 7.62×51mm L2A2 144gr Ball Ammunition which absolutely does not have the ballistic capabilities of today's ammunition i.e. SMK.

So, I'm left wondering how today -- with modern ballistics and modern rounds -- are AW and AT owners maximizing the original Arctic Warfare profile 4R 1:12 twist Walther barrel and pushing it to 1000 yards. And if they are, then how, and with what round?

Q.E.D... if you are taking my response personally -- while laughing at my previous posts and disingenuously responding -- then those emotions are yours to own, and not my responsibility. We're all adults here.

 

[TheOtherAndrew]

im emo so it adds up

 

[TheOtherAndrew]

im not an expert on Lothar 1/12 4R but I essentially have never heard anyone say they dislike the shift from 169 to 175's. Try the 175s from federal

 

[HKSniper11B]

im not an expert on Lothar 1/12 4R but I essentially have never heard anyone say they dislike the shift from 169 to 175's. Try the 175s from federal

Yup. We were discussing that and that's where we started the discussion. FGMM 175gr SMKs are fantastic and both rifles seem to love it the most. It just doesn't have the best ballistic coefficient and as such, we are hitting a transonic limit at about 800-850 yards. While in the trans window, it is the most unstable, making it difficult to have DOPE out to 1000 yards. This also means less accurate and less consistent.

Scroll back up to see more details of the discussion about also testing Hornady, Norma, etc.

 

[SFree]

The ballistics are notably different in the Bartlein 5R 1:10 twist barrels, and superior to boot. Unfortunately, they are out of stock and are slowly being caught up. I spoke to Bartlein personally inquiring, but it'll be a while. Next year sometime, is what I heard. Further, they're in the $900-1000 range in price, $791 with my military discount. And as long as I'm spending money changing things, I could just switch to a better caliber, or change to a different rifle altogether. But that isn't the point, so I digress...

The Lothar-Walther barrel is extremely capable. What's baffled me is how few on SH and elsewhere have documented ballistics with it, even reviewing this thread and others from many years past. That said, the standard was 168gr FGMM for a long time, along with Black Hills 168gr. And, many at that time saw 800-900 yards as the limit regardless. Even just 10 to 20 years ago, ballistic expectations were different. Recall that the Accuracy International PM was designed to shoot (UPDATED): 7.62×51mm L2A2 144gr Ball Ammunition which absolutely does not have the ballistic capabilities of today's ammunition i.e. SMK.

So, I'm left wondering how today -- with modern ballistics and modern rounds -- are AW and AT owners maximizing the original Arctic Warfare profile 4R 1:12 twist Walther barrel and pushing it to 1000 yards. And if they are, then how, and with what round?

Q.E.D... if you are taking my response personally -- while laughing at my previous posts and disingenuously responding -- then those emotions are yours to own, and not my responsibility. We're all adults here.

If you’re looking for empirical data, why not contact Jacob Bynum? He’s put hundreds of thousands of rounds out of the barrels you have questions about. A five minute conversation with him and you’ll find out everything you want to know…

 

[HKSniper11B]

If you’re looking for empirical data, why not contact Jacob Bynum? He’s put hundreds of thousands of rounds out of the barrels you have questions about. A five minute conversation with him and you’ll find out everything you want to know…

I don't know the man. I'm going to do some homework on him now. Thank you for the suggestion. If he is on here, and I can send the man a PM, even better.

EDIT: founder of "Rifles Only" - going to contact them now and ask.

 

[FUNCTIONAL]

Your limits are less about bullets and more about wanting to do it with factory ammo. They just aren't loaded hot enough. My 175 sierras are super out to 1k and it's not even near its max load.

A great bullet for you would be a 169gr sierra match king to play nice with your 1/12 twist and get you a smidge more velocity. But you'll have to hand load it.

Also test the 185gr berger loads. Every barrel is different and barrel length matters as well as twist. For example a 14.5" 1/7 twist barrel stabilizes a 55gr head while my 30" with the same twist literally explodes the bullet. You might be fine with the 185. Calculators are best estimates not hard fast rules when it comes to some of this stuff.

 

[MK20]

The ballistics are notably different in the Bartlein 5R 1:10 twist barrels, and superior to boot. Unfortunately, they are out of stock and are slowly being caught up. I spoke to Bartlein personally inquiring, but it'll be a while. Next year sometime, is what I heard. Further, they're in the $900-1000 range in price, $791 with my military discount. And as long as I'm spending money changing things, I could just switch to a better caliber, or change to a different rifle altogether. But that isn't the point, so I digress...

The Lothar-Walther barrel is extremely capable. What's baffled me is how few on SH and elsewhere have documented ballistics with it, even reviewing this thread and others from many years past. That said, the standard was 168gr FGMM for a long time, along with Black Hills 168gr. And, many at that time saw 800-900 yards as the limit regardless. Even just 10 to 20 years ago, ballistic expectations were different. Recall that the Accuracy International PM was designed to shoot (UPDATED): 7.62×51mm L2A2 144gr Ball Ammunition which absolutely does not have the ballistic capabilities of today's ammunition i.e. SMK.

So, I'm left wondering how today -- with modern ballistics and modern rounds -- are AW and AT owners maximizing the original Arctic Warfare profile 4R 1:12 twist Walther barrel and pushing it to 1000 yards. And if they are, then how, and with what round?

Q.E.D... if you are taking my response personally -- while laughing at my previous posts and disingenuously responding -- then those emotions are yours to own, and not my responsibility. We're all adults here.

I have said that I have that EXACT LW 1:12 barrel and my FGMM 175 factory ammo is shooting at 2720 which is more than enough for 1K.

What is your velocity you are getting with factory 175 FGMM out of your LW, by the way?