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Are the FN SPR enthusiasts extinct?
- Thread starter mahiman
- Start date
I have one on my Win Mod 70 .308
Works great and feeds flawlessly.
BUT I would NOT recommend buying anything directly from them!
They will F*€k you around every possible corner.
Buy from a retailer who will guarantee they have the item in stock ready to ship prior to purchase.
Consider yourself warned.
I’m considering installing a hinged floor plate set up into one of my SPRs. I don’t like magazines sticking out, and the DBM mags are few and far between.
This is true with the factory DBM but you can run AI mag’s with aftermarket bottom metal and minimal work.
AI mags are readily available and are Great quality.
All my Winchesters have been converted and run.
Might need to put this in the gunsmithing section, but...
Took the Winchester/HS Precision stock and look to see how much fitting the factory DBM bottom metal will need, thinking it was just to open the the area around the front screw. Just eyeballing it, the mag inlet in the stock, into the aluminum is going to need to be opened up.
I converted my PRB-XP to a PT&G hinged floorplate, so I tried that in the HS stock, that will also need opening up in the mag area.
I had thought the various bottom metals were mostly cross compatible...live and learn.
I'm assuming if I have my gunsmith open the inlet for the factory dbm bottom metal, it will preclude a conversion to a hinged bottom metal and mag box later?... the DBM being basically obsolete & correct mags harder to find, is the reason I converted the XP to hinged..
Assuming the inlet will have to be opened up for the TBM or PT&G AI mag conversion also.
Can the control round push feed even be converted to hinged floorplate...ie: internal magazine box and follower compatibility? If they are, that is the route I'll likely go.
Really wasn't looking to get into a project, bought it on a whim, figuring I could just zero it with ball, and leave it. The HS stock came up cheap....and of course as it sits now, I ran out of elevation adjustment....sigh
Any thoughts or ideas,
Took the Winchester/HS Precision stock and look to see how much fitting the factory DBM bottom metal will need, thinking it was just to open the the area around the front screw. Just eyeballing it, the mag inlet in the stock, into the aluminum is going to need to be opened up.
I converted my PRB-XP to a PT&G hinged floorplate, so I tried that in the HS stock, that will also need opening up in the mag area.
I had thought the various bottom metals were mostly cross compatible...live and learn.
I'm assuming if I have my gunsmith open the inlet for the factory dbm bottom metal, it will preclude a conversion to a hinged bottom metal and mag box later?... the DBM being basically obsolete & correct mags harder to find, is the reason I converted the XP to hinged..
Assuming the inlet will have to be opened up for the TBM or PT&G AI mag conversion also.
Can the control round push feed even be converted to hinged floorplate...ie: internal magazine box and follower compatibility? If they are, that is the route I'll likely go.
Really wasn't looking to get into a project, bought it on a whim, figuring I could just zero it with ball, and leave it. The HS stock came up cheap....and of course as it sits now, I ran out of elevation adjustment....sigh
Any thoughts or ideas,
@R Moran
The fact you are out of travel to raise the point of impact (zero) at 100yrd’s is almost guaranteed to be an issue with the scope, rings or base.
Do you have another scope that you can install and try?
If not maybe a member in your area can help out?
What part of the country are you located in?
The fact you are out of travel to raise the point of impact (zero) at 100yrd’s is almost guaranteed to be an issue with the scope, rings or base.
Do you have another scope that you can install and try?
If not maybe a member in your area can help out?
What part of the country are you located in?
Looking at midwest gun works, they list internal mag box and followers for controlled round push feed, so...at least that looks like an option. Might be the most "future proof" way to go.
I'm in Utah, near SLC.
I do have another scope, an older PST, just waiting on some 30mm rings that I ordered to come in, that was the plan, to try at least one other scope.
So I was staring at the safe last night and realized my A3G (with a CDI bottom) hasn’t seen the light of a range day in many a solar blood moons, what’s the street value of these now?
Need to decide if it’s worth dropping into the PX or letting it (continue to) gather dust in the back.
Thoughts on what it should go up for? Anyone here recently sold their A3G?
Need to decide if it’s worth dropping into the PX or letting it (continue to) gather dust in the back.
Thoughts on what it should go up for? Anyone here recently sold their A3G?
I don’t shoot it because I only shoot my AXSR now. I gave it to my wife but she has no interest in shooting LR anymore.
I've seen the A3Gs move pretty quickly on GB around $2500, and seen them sit a bit at $3500...depending on condition and what was offered with it. I see a lot of A1s and A2s around the $2K mark (by "a lot", I mean 5-6/month). They usually don't have bids, but after a month or so they no longer appear.
I still look at them pretty frequently on GB.
I bought my A1 there in LNIB condition for $1150 in 2019...man do I wish they still went for that.
I still look at them pretty frequently on GB.
I bought my A1 there in LNIB condition for $1150 in 2019...man do I wish they still went for that.
Prices really depend on the market, which is pretty soft from a seller standpoint right now, in my experience.
The last few FNs I saw went for around the $1500-2000 mark depending on model and features. An A3G or A5M would net you the most more than likely, but again, it’s a buyer’s market right now. Money’s tight for many, so if someone is selling because they need to they’ll likely end up having to drop the price down to the point of it being a killer deal for the right buyer. If you can afford to wait, I would.
The last few FNs I saw went for around the $1500-2000 mark depending on model and features. An A3G or A5M would net you the most more than likely, but again, it’s a buyer’s market right now. Money’s tight for many, so if someone is selling because they need to they’ll likely end up having to drop the price down to the point of it being a killer deal for the right buyer. If you can afford to wait, I would.
Thanks for the advice guys. Makes sense.
One of these days I’ll get it out to the mountains and pop up some updated pics…because a thread without pics is useless
One of these days I’ll get it out to the mountains and pop up some updated pics…because a thread without pics is useless
This thread has me jonesin' to become an SPR enthusiast, lol. I've been checking gunbroker now and then for a .308; found several but some had cut down barrels, beat up stocks or other issues. Found a few probably worth buying, but they going ~$2500...and at that price, I wonder if I don't just put together a rifle on an ARC CDG and call it a day (although that's likely +$500 with all new parts). But there is something to be said for a badass, turnkey factory rifle.
I guess I'll keep looking. It may be helpful if you guys post more pictures though
I guess I'll keep looking. It may be helpful if you guys post more pictures though
They are totally worth it and every bit the same as a good custom action. I sold my A1A for ~$14-1500. They pop up here and there, just have to keep a look out. Post a WTB ad in the PX and see if anyone bites. I encourage you to pay extra if it has a CDI bottom metal (mine did) for those sweet and plentiful AICS mags.This thread has me jonesin' to become an SPR enthusiast, lol. I've been checking gunbroker now and then for a .308; found several but some had cut down barrels, beat up stocks or other issues. Found a few probably worth buying, but they going ~$2500...and at that price, I wonder if I don't just put together a rifle on an ARC CDG and call it a day (although that's likely +$500 with all new parts). But there is something to be said for a badass, turnkey factory rifle.
I guess I'll keep looking. It may be helpful if you guys post more pictures though
Yeah, I considered them to be a "best buy" years ago when there was some kind of aftermarket support. I bought my A2 NIB about 7 years ago for $1400, and for that you got a fully adjustable McMillan stock, robust action, and Badger rail. Unfortunately, that aftermarket support is virtually nonexistent now.
Even the ones that I had that didn't have great accuracy I could still get to shoot just under MOA. My A1 that I got LNIB had a test target of .96 MOA...and they let it out the door. I know that some guys have bought some fantastic-shooting examples, but I only had one of my three that I could really brag about the factory accuracy on. That rifle is still in factory form, but the other two have been rebarreled...and for a total investment of $2200-2300, I have a couple of hammers. Are they GAP PPR equivalent? No. But they are dead nuts reliable, and if you manage to break one you would have broken anything else too.
Really, the factory DBM and the proprietary mags are the weak point in the SPR system. The only workaround for that, that I know of is to find an old CDI or factory TBM system and pay through the nose for it now.
Even the ones that I had that didn't have great accuracy I could still get to shoot just under MOA. My A1 that I got LNIB had a test target of .96 MOA...and they let it out the door. I know that some guys have bought some fantastic-shooting examples, but I only had one of my three that I could really brag about the factory accuracy on. That rifle is still in factory form, but the other two have been rebarreled...and for a total investment of $2200-2300, I have a couple of hammers. Are they GAP PPR equivalent? No. But they are dead nuts reliable, and if you manage to break one you would have broken anything else too.
Really, the factory DBM and the proprietary mags are the weak point in the SPR system. The only workaround for that, that I know of is to find an old CDI or factory TBM system and pay through the nose for it now.
They were a great option in the world of $3,500-$5,000 customs back when they were made. All the ones I have shot as well as my custom guns of the same genre.
They don’t hold a candle to my BR guns, but then again very few custom guns of the PRS or tactical-ish genre do to this day.
They don’t hold a candle to my BR guns, but then again very few custom guns of the PRS or tactical-ish genre do to this day.
@diggler1833
An option is the PTG aics compatible bottom metal.
It comes with all of the risks associated with buying from them!
If you could purchase from anyone else that guarantees to have it in stock you would be safe.
I have one Win 70 with PTG bottom metal and it runs 100%
An option is the PTG aics compatible bottom metal.
It comes with all of the risks associated with buying from them!
If you could purchase from anyone else that guarantees to have it in stock you would be safe.
I have one Win 70 with PTG bottom metal and it runs 100%
So I picked up an FN TSR off the PX pretty cheap. It’s in .308, which I’ll probably leave as-is for now, but is a 1:12 twist. I already have an A5M XP so I’m set on shooting heaviest if I want (currently shooting FGMM 175, but planning to transition to Hornady 168 ELD-M for handloads once I run out of the FGMM since mine is a 20”).
Anyway, I’m thinking I may make it a predator/medium game option and run 125gr TNTs or even 110gr Varmageddon out of it with the slower twist. It was listed as having a high round count so I need to actually shoot it and see how it does, but with a .308, “high” would be north of 6K IMO. The target will tell the tale, and if it shoots like crap I’ll have to decide if I want to try a different caliber.
But the real catch is stock/chassis options. I bought it with a B&C Varmint/Tactical stock which will get me by for awhile, but I’m wanting something a little nicer and more refined for long-term. Several years back I sold a Manners MCS-T when I was in a pinch, and apparently now Manners no longer inlets for the M70. Seems both MDT and XLR made a chassis for a short while but no longer. B&C still lists a few but again, while workable I’d prefer something a little better.
So that leaves me with McMillan or ordering a flat top Manners and paying for LRI or somebody to inlet for it (I don’t even know what that would cost). I still need to figure out if I want to run it long-term with the floor-plate it has or try to source a reasonably priced CDI or TBM kit (I also sold one of those I got cheap, like an idiot). Am I missing any other current options, or is that about it these days?
Anyway, I’m thinking I may make it a predator/medium game option and run 125gr TNTs or even 110gr Varmageddon out of it with the slower twist. It was listed as having a high round count so I need to actually shoot it and see how it does, but with a .308, “high” would be north of 6K IMO. The target will tell the tale, and if it shoots like crap I’ll have to decide if I want to try a different caliber.
But the real catch is stock/chassis options. I bought it with a B&C Varmint/Tactical stock which will get me by for awhile, but I’m wanting something a little nicer and more refined for long-term. Several years back I sold a Manners MCS-T when I was in a pinch, and apparently now Manners no longer inlets for the M70. Seems both MDT and XLR made a chassis for a short while but no longer. B&C still lists a few but again, while workable I’d prefer something a little better.
So that leaves me with McMillan or ordering a flat top Manners and paying for LRI or somebody to inlet for it (I don’t even know what that would cost). I still need to figure out if I want to run it long-term with the floor-plate it has or try to source a reasonably priced CDI or TBM kit (I also sold one of those I got cheap, like an idiot). Am I missing any other current options, or is that about it these days?
Manners would be my first choice.
Inletting is no big deal for receiver and bottom metal.
1) Jeff @ Rivers Bend Gun Company
2) Moon @ Cresent Customs
3) GA Precision
Any of these can accomplish that task
Bottom metal I would run AICS compatible from PTG, but be aware of the consequences of dealing with that Sh*tshow! Consider yourself warned.
With the 1-12 twist I have had best results with 175 Bergers vs. SMK’s
YMMV
Good Luck!
Inletting is no big deal for receiver and bottom metal.
1) Jeff @ Rivers Bend Gun Company
2) Moon @ Cresent Customs
3) GA Precision
Any of these can accomplish that task
Bottom metal I would run AICS compatible from PTG, but be aware of the consequences of dealing with that Sh*tshow! Consider yourself warned.
With the 1-12 twist I have had best results with 175 Bergers vs. SMK’s
YMMV
Good Luck!
Well, the daredevil in me talked me into ordering the PTG DBM just now. I emailed them last week and they said it was in stock. We will see how it goes….
Keep us posted. I might be in for one if your results are positive.
Holy crap, $750 for full inletting of a flat top? Oof. So maybe it’s all McMillan unless I stumble across a used option that fits. Alright, guess I’m saving my pennies and running the B&C for a bit!
750 to inlet the action, barrel and bottom metal, pillar and bed a 300 flat top OR 700 to get it inletted from manners direct plus a pillar and bed job after that. Not much different.
I think LRI has 3d inletting for $375. That's probably a pretty good deal cause flat top manners are cheaper. Call Chad Monday and find out.
I've got a walnut Winchester stock I'll give you for free, but I doubt you'll like the size of the barrel channel, haha!
Do any of you know if SPR A5M ever came with a non-fluted barrel from the factory? FN's website says the A5M came with either a 20" or 24" fluted barrel, only. However, I've seen a couple A5Ms for sale, both non-fluted, one with 20" and the other 24" barrel. The 24" rifle purports to be NOS from a dealer and comes with original box, with the sticker saying SPR A5M.
I've checked with FN, they verified the serial on both guns come back to A5M models. However, the rep wasn't sure about the barrel (he thought fluted only) and said he would check with the gunsmiths. It's been just shy of 2 weeks, so I figured I'd try here as well.
While I'm at it, is the A3G the only model that is glass-bedded? Or is the A5M/XP as well?
I've checked with FN, they verified the serial on both guns come back to A5M models. However, the rep wasn't sure about the barrel (he thought fluted only) and said he would check with the gunsmiths. It's been just shy of 2 weeks, so I figured I'd try here as well.
While I'm at it, is the A3G the only model that is glass-bedded? Or is the A5M/XP as well?
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True SPR-A5M and A5XP only came with fluted barrels. SPR-A1 and early A1a, A2 and A4 were available with non-fluted barrels. The primary difference in these models was the stock. The barreled actions were the same, regardless of fluting.
There is a chance the the dealer has a rifle "built" after it left FN. Factory configurations of the SPR-A5 did not include a non-fluted barrel. Could be a SPR-A1 barreled action in an A5 stock. Can't explain the dealer's label.
If the barrel is roll marked with FN's info, its the same barrel regardless of flutes.
SPR bedding from the factory is easy: if the stock is a black McMillan, it only has bedding around the recoil lug and under the rear tang. If the stock is a green McMillan (A3G) then it is a full glass-bed job including bedded in bottom metal. These were mostly bedded by GA Precision but some very early ones were done by Leo Conring.
Bedding of TSRs, PBRs and PBR-XPs do not follow this color scheme. These rifles were all in Hogue overmolded stocks and ALL got the same "spot" bedding as the black stocked SPRs, regardless of color or model.
There is a chance the the dealer has a rifle "built" after it left FN. Factory configurations of the SPR-A5 did not include a non-fluted barrel. Could be a SPR-A1 barreled action in an A5 stock. Can't explain the dealer's label.
If the barrel is roll marked with FN's info, its the same barrel regardless of flutes.
SPR bedding from the factory is easy: if the stock is a black McMillan, it only has bedding around the recoil lug and under the rear tang. If the stock is a green McMillan (A3G) then it is a full glass-bed job including bedded in bottom metal. These were mostly bedded by GA Precision but some very early ones were done by Leo Conring.
Bedding of TSRs, PBRs and PBR-XPs do not follow this color scheme. These rifles were all in Hogue overmolded stocks and ALL got the same "spot" bedding as the black stocked SPRs, regardless of color or model.
@Action Guy
You ever make it to Kansas City lunch is on me!
Your information and willingness to share are greatly appreciated.
Chet
You ever make it to Kansas City lunch is on me!
Your information and willingness to share are greatly appreciated.
Chet
That's some great information @Action Guy thank you very much . Seems to confirm my suspicion that the "NOS" rifle isn't; it doesn't have the correct barrel, and if it's been re-barreled, it's not new-old stock (IMO). I did ask the dealer for a better picture of the receiver showing the serial number, but he refused, saying the serial is shown on the box (it is) and there is already a picture of the receiver (there is), but with unreadable serial. So it sounds like this one is either a re-barrel or a prior model barreled action in an A5 stock and sold with an A5M box.
The other A5M is used and so I suppose I'm not as concerned if it's been re-barreled. On that rifle the serial on the receiver was clearly visible and FN verified it to be an A5.
Greatly appreciate the information.
The other A5M is used and so I suppose I'm not as concerned if it's been re-barreled. On that rifle the serial on the receiver was clearly visible and FN verified it to be an A5.
Greatly appreciate the information.
I was gonna tell you that all A5M had fluted barrels, but then you said that FN verified both serials. I have seen some weird ones out there, and I ASSumed it was FN was selling stocks and bottom metal for cheap, actions and I vaguely remember barreled actions at one time. People have pieced together all sorts of stuff, but I've never seen someone misrepresent what it is before.
To clarify, FN did get back to me about an hour after I asked here, and said that ALL factory A5s came with fluted barrels, any non-fluted barrel is a re-barrel or an older barreled action in an A5 stock.
The first seller, I think just didn't really know what he had beyond "FN SPR" because the ad was fairly generic, mentioned it only an an "SPR" and talked about the really early guns.
The second one, the dealer, I don't know what to make of that situation. I don't know how he came by it, if that shop had it straight from the factory, or what. But it put me off that it has a barrel that FN explicitly told me it should not have, and that the seller refused to provide one additional picture, clearly showing the serial on the receiver. (The serial I gave to FN came off the box, I was trying to verify the receiver serial matched the box. )
But, it's all good. I'm not sure an 11.5#, right-hand drive .308 is what I need anyhow, but I'll keep looking.
You definitely need a SPR....
Maybe look into a winny M70. Same action, lighter and still pretty accurate.
Maybe look into a winny M70. Same action, lighter and still pretty accurate.
With the myriad of custom actions out there now, it is easy to understand why someone with less than 10 years in this passion doesn't know or care much about the SPR.
But for ~15 years, for around $1,300 - $1,500, you got an action that is still just as bomb-proof as anything made today, a McMillan stock, a barrel that will shoot sub-MOA for over 10K rounds, a trigger guard that was significantly beefier than any other general factory rifle, and a Badger Ordinance rail.
To turn one into the equivalent of a "full custom", it takes a DBM upgrade, trigger spring, and maybe a barrel.
They aren't as smooth as my AI or Origin, but they are just as reliable...and for significantly less (half the cost of a basic AI AT). I own three, and if I ever come across a low-mileage SPR again with a reasonable price tag, it will be four.
But for ~15 years, for around $1,300 - $1,500, you got an action that is still just as bomb-proof as anything made today, a McMillan stock, a barrel that will shoot sub-MOA for over 10K rounds, a trigger guard that was significantly beefier than any other general factory rifle, and a Badger Ordinance rail.
To turn one into the equivalent of a "full custom", it takes a DBM upgrade, trigger spring, and maybe a barrel.
They aren't as smooth as my AI or Origin, but they are just as reliable...and for significantly less (half the cost of a basic AI AT). I own three, and if I ever come across a low-mileage SPR again with a reasonable price tag, it will be four.
For those who have put a Area 419 Arca rail on, which did you use and can you make them work with the action screw mount?
I used the area 419 12 inch universal rail on my SPR A1. I drilled and mounted the rail in front of the action screw and bottom metal so I wouldn’t have to remount the rail if I wanted to pull the action or have to go find a longer screw. I have about an inch or so of overhang at the front and acts as a spigot really. I think it works great.
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So, a few pages back, I posted about a PBR with control round push feed I bought locally. It exhibited some issues. My local gunsmith fixed the extraction/ejection issues, and adjusted the trigger.
But, it continues to shoot, what I think, is very low. Two different scopes and rings, albeit not top of the line, but 2 feet low at 25ish yards to just get on paper seems excessive to me. Are the stock two piece bases supposed to be 20moa? Because they don't look it, or seem to measure it. I've not read of this being a common issue, not sure what else to look for, before I spend $100+ on a new base.
Also, the factory DBM are just a plain cunt to get in and out of the gun. I have three all marked BC/2. One came with this PBR, one came with an XP(CRF) that I converted to a floorplate, and one I bought in a Winchester box. Anyone know if BC is the correct mag? Midwest gunworks has a chart based on control vs push, but doesn't address the crpf. Just looking at some old descriptions, seems they all use the same mag.
Either way, that just for info, I just bought a TBM from Midway and an extra 5rd mag...they are on sale for about $240. I also have the parts to convert it to a floorplate, but the PT&G bottom metal won't fit in the hogue stock or the Win HS precision stock..sigh
I was trying to avoid spending a lot of money on this rifle, this early on. So much for just zeroing a cheap scope with ball, and sticking it in the back of the safe.
Any ideas?
But, it continues to shoot, what I think, is very low. Two different scopes and rings, albeit not top of the line, but 2 feet low at 25ish yards to just get on paper seems excessive to me. Are the stock two piece bases supposed to be 20moa? Because they don't look it, or seem to measure it. I've not read of this being a common issue, not sure what else to look for, before I spend $100+ on a new base.
Also, the factory DBM are just a plain cunt to get in and out of the gun. I have three all marked BC/2. One came with this PBR, one came with an XP(CRF) that I converted to a floorplate, and one I bought in a Winchester box. Anyone know if BC is the correct mag? Midwest gunworks has a chart based on control vs push, but doesn't address the crpf. Just looking at some old descriptions, seems they all use the same mag.
Either way, that just for info, I just bought a TBM from Midway and an extra 5rd mag...they are on sale for about $240. I also have the parts to convert it to a floorplate, but the PT&G bottom metal won't fit in the hogue stock or the Win HS precision stock..sigh
I was trying to avoid spending a lot of money on this rifle, this early on. So much for just zeroing a cheap scope with ball, and sticking it in the back of the safe.
Any ideas?
If MWGW still has the 20MOA scope mount buy it , it should fit with a tap & thread, also check out McMillan for closeout stocks in WIN SA/FNH some modification to the stock might be needed but will be minimal ( dremal and bedding compound) for PTG BM, or stick with the floor plate .The floor plate/detach mag system sucks unless you find factory ammo that your gun likes and it feeds correctly. The first rifle I ever owned was a WIN M70 30/06 Push feed with a 16" pencil barrel and it never failed to feed, it just wandered after the pencil barrel had three or more rounds down it.
Never buy a cheap scope get the best you can afford or wait and get a top tier scope if your build exhibits accuracy worthy of such purchase !
Never buy a cheap scope get the best you can afford or wait and get a top tier scope if your build exhibits accuracy worthy of such purchase !
Shit dude, thanks for the heads up on the factory TBM with 5 and 10 rounder for $240. I just got the second to last one apparently.
Regarding your bases, I think I'd be suspicious of them. I was fortunate in that my A1 and A2 came with Badger bases already.
Have you done all of the obvious stuff, like make sure someone didn't install them backwards? Probably not a lot of help, I have zero experience with the PBR.
