It’s got a certain strike industries tchotchke flair to it. Ted what is the bolt lift going to feel like?
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Coup De Grâce, New Action from American Rifle Company, $899 WOW!
- Thread starter karagias
- Start date
Thanks for that. Conical breeches are definitely awesome for smooth feeding but not always necessary if the bullet tip finds the hole. The Coup has a 6 o'clock lug that effectively strips the cartridge from the mag. That lug needs to pass through a 6 o'clock slot in the receiver. The bullet tips of small cartridges will not get high enough to find the chamber and require the conical breech. The 300 Norma and 338 Lapua Mags find the hole and can be run with a flat breech. The pics below tell the tale, sort of.
Ted
Color isn't for me. I like my action to be all black. Same reason I would find it hard to buy a Burris XTR PRO.
Yep, that cartridge centerline on the smaller cartridge needs help.
The magnum centerline is already above the bottom of the chamber.
223s, Grendel, 6-ARC and BR variants really can use all the help they can get to make sure the bullet tip is pointing in the right direction to prevent it from running into the flat back side of the barrel.
I learned this lesson a long time ago with a Cooper Model 21 in 17 Mach IV.
The only way it would feed was super, super slow. It went back to Cooper and they put a very small radius (cone) on the breech end. Haven't had a hiccup since then.
The magnum centerline is already above the bottom of the chamber.
223s, Grendel, 6-ARC and BR variants really can use all the help they can get to make sure the bullet tip is pointing in the right direction to prevent it from running into the flat back side of the barrel.
I learned this lesson a long time ago with a Cooper Model 21 in 17 Mach IV.
The only way it would feed was super, super slow. It went back to Cooper and they put a very small radius (cone) on the breech end. Haven't had a hiccup since then.
Someone just pulled a pin on a grenade and casually tossed it in the door of the competition and walked away with a giant smile on their face.
Waiting to hear about the bolt lift but I think I have to have one of these. Was gonna order another origin but I cannot stop looking at pics of this thing.
The general purpose bolt action that works with everything is a tricky if not impossible problem. I wish someone would order many thousands of these in one caliber. So much easier...
Think 8x57 k98 Mausers made in the millions. Optimized!
Ted
*Veruca Salt?
I do believe that is her name...
It's been a while, but yeah, that's probably how it's actually spelled.
And then woke up at 0400 to answer the world’s questions the next day. Legend
I’m loving the red, I have 3 Burris pros which look like they just need to have one of these to be mounted on to look right .
Thank you Ted for clarifying the tighter tolerance on the bolt to body clearance. Never had issues with my Archimedes but didn’t personally like the “feel”
Also, really need to figure a way to get proof on board with prefits. I know there are plenty of other smiths that can turn barrels but with proof being hundreds of dollars cheaper and on the shelf it’s very hard to beat. This is the other reason I sold my Archimedes.
.Thank you Ted for clarifying the tighter tolerance on the bolt to body clearance. Never had issues with my Archimedes but didn’t personally like the “feel”
Also, really need to figure a way to get proof on board with prefits. I know there are plenty of other smiths that can turn barrels but with proof being hundreds of dollars cheaper and on the shelf it’s very hard to beat. This is the other reason I sold my Archimedes.
I just want to say, this is how to run a business and deal with customers, when it seems there are plenty of excuses (supply chain, Covid, inflation, etc) to cut corners. This looks like a tremendous value and I also very much appreciate the time spent on here explaining the specs so a bolt action layman like me not only understands what you are saying but I’ve learned a ton just by reading this thread. I would hate to be a few other companies out there right now, but maybe they will get the memo. You got my business BF and I will be patiently waiting with a handful of cash for this one.
Much appreciated @karagias for the work you are putting in here.
S/F,
Josh
Much appreciated @karagias for the work you are putting in here.
S/F,
Josh
Proof’s stainless barrels are offered in essentially one contour: competition. When you see ARC actions dominating the comp circuit you’ll see Proof prefits.I’m loving the red, I have 3 Burris pros which look like they just need to have one of these to be mounted on to look right
Thank you Ted for clarifying the tighter tolerance on the bolt to body clearance. Never had issues with my Archimedes but didn’t personally like the “feel”
Also, really need to figure a way to get proof on board with prefits. I know there are plenty of other smiths that can turn barrels but with proof being hundreds of dollars cheaper and on the shelf it’s very hard to beat. This is the other reason I sold my Archimedes.
How long is this introductory price going for? I need to strategically plan my funeral in case my wife kills me for starting another build.
Falkor is not dominating comps and they have prefits. Same with Daniel defense, ruger and some others.
I’m not sure exactly what the criteria is that proof used to decide who they are making prefits for but would really help sell these.
We'll reach out to Proof soon. The more people stocking pre-fits, the better. It's great to be living through the heyday of gun making on earth. It's never been this good for gun buyers, ever. People all over the world love guns.I’m loving the red, I have 3 Burris pros which look like they just need to have one of these to be mounted on to look right
Thank you Ted for clarifying the tighter tolerance on the bolt to body clearance. Never had issues with my Archimedes but didn’t personally like the “feel”
Also, really need to figure a way to get proof on board with prefits. I know there are plenty of other smiths that can turn barrels but with proof being hundreds of dollars cheaper and on the shelf it’s very hard to beat. This is the other reason I sold my Archimedes.
@karagias,
I've turned into a long throated 223 fan as well as many others. Some of other action manufacturers seem to treat the 223 as an after thought and seem to have issues from time to time. Just wondering do you do much testing with feeding and ejection in 223 with your new designs?
I waited for a long time(BF 2022) to pick up your Nucleus just to see if people have issues with it in 223 and most seem to like it. One of the major reasons I got your Nucleus was that the bolt nose it so short(.115" +/-) it allows almost the entire case body to be supported while others with .150" make me nervous.
I've turned into a long throated 223 fan as well as many others. Some of other action manufacturers seem to treat the 223 as an after thought and seem to have issues from time to time. Just wondering do you do much testing with feeding and ejection in 223 with your new designs?
I waited for a long time(BF 2022) to pick up your Nucleus just to see if people have issues with it in 223 and most seem to like it. One of the major reasons I got your Nucleus was that the bolt nose it so short(.115" +/-) it allows almost the entire case body to be supported while others with .150" make me nervous.
To circle back, since you're discontinuing the Archimedes, what's the support going to be like on legacy actions? Parts like extractors, springs and bolt heads?
I don't think having them coned will be as simple as you think. Headspace is close to same, 0.825 vs 0.827, however the flat breech is 0.675 long from barrel shoulder and the beginning of the coned breech looks much closer to the bolt nose on the new action.
As long as the Nuke 2.0 isn't discontinued, the bolt head, extractor, rail, are compatible with the Archimedes. The striker spring isn't on the website though. Nuke 1.0 parts are still available on the website so I'm guessing support will be good.
Haven't kept up on Comps but guess these are the guys dominating them now.
Tikka
Savage
Accuracy International
Falcor
Barrett MRAD
Q Fix
Blaser R8
Ruger RPR
Or Proof must be using some other criteria for deciding who to make prefits for.
Yeah you missed the guy who said exactly that and my response. Catch up. At least 4 of those manufacturers are mainstays in bolt/long range, don’t be a bitch.
I personally think that proof is choosing actions that don’t have multiple revisions of specs so their is no chance that someone with an older style picks up a barrel that won’t work or could be unsafe.
From my understanding ARC has had a few revisions or barrel specs in the past???? I could be wrong.
But with this all new action it could be and hopefully will be an excellent opportunity for proof/ARC to make it happen.
I still use smith produced barrels for odd calibers or contours/ lengths but for PRS burning multiple barrels having the 223, 6 dasher, GT, and Creed barrels for hundreds less and no wait time is super sweet and a big deal.
From my understanding ARC has had a few revisions or barrel specs in the past???? I could be wrong.
But with this all new action it could be and hopefully will be an excellent opportunity for proof/ARC to make it happen.
I still use smith produced barrels for odd calibers or contours/ lengths but for PRS burning multiple barrels having the 223, 6 dasher, GT, and Creed barrels for hundreds less and no wait time is super sweet and a big deal.
Stop asking questions and let the man get the long action shipped to me goddamnit.
Ted does a great job communicating
I don't think having them coned will be as simple as you think. Headspace is close to same, 0.825 vs 0.827, however the flat breech is 0.675 long from barrel shoulder and the beginning of the coned breech looks much closer to the bolt nose on the new action.
I assumed have to set the barrel back to do it
I
I don't think having them coned will be as simple as you think. Headspace is close to same, 0.825 vs 0.827, however the flat breech is 0.675 long from barrel shoulder and the beginning of the coned breech looks much closer to the bolt nose on the new action.
I assumed have to set the barrel back to do it
I
Every action past like 2017 has the same spec.
The OG Mausingfield is the odd duck out.
All those post are the same spec. Long or short action regardless of model.
Meanwhile, other manufacturers have different specs on different models or even different specs based on long vs short action. Proof still makes prefits for them. No one knows why Proof does what they do except Proof. Not worth speculating
I suspect that Ted will find it much easier to reach out to Proof once he has evidence (proof if you will) of how many have been sold in the presale.
Based upon his answers and screen shots above, I’d say yes, though the 7mm would probably feed better with a cone.
I wonder how this will feel compared
To the Gen I nucleus. The one I had was not impressive whatsoever. It was sloppy, would bind easy, bolt lift wasn’t that great.
Hopefully this is a whole different design and puts it in another league
To the Gen I nucleus. The one I had was not impressive whatsoever. It was sloppy, would bind easy, bolt lift wasn’t that great.
Hopefully this is a whole different design and puts it in another league
I think so. See pic below. But again, cone breeches are a good thing and not hard to get.
Ted
I don’t need another action
I don’t need another action
I might need another Xylo for it….
I don’t need another action
I might need another Xylo for it….
I welcome criticism, in fact I want it because it drives design, but please keep it accurate. No Nucleus was ever prone to binding. It is true that there was lots of clearance between the bolt and the receiver, but that clearance never caused binding and it was there by design to tolerate filthy conditions. Binding is only caused by tightly coupled opposing forces and the distance between these forces does not appreciably decrease by an increase of one or two degrees in bolt yaw or pitch with respect to the receiver.
It is also true that some people thought that the bolt lift on the Nucleus was heavy.
It is also true that some didn't. In fact, many Nucleus customers have been running these for years with lighter springs that they purchased from us.
The word sloppy has a negative connotation for people who know little or nothing about engineering. There are times when sloppy, or more appropriately clearance, is good and times when it's bad. In regards to bolt actions, sloppy is generally good, again because it does not contribute to binding while tolerating contaminants. The only good thing about tight (opposite of sloppy) is that it can be used by an unscrupulous sales guy to peddle an action having nothing substantive to offer leaving. That's actually a bad thing and it leaves the poor customer none the wiser. We don't and won't do that.
As of now, the Coup De Grâce has 0.2mm (.008 in) between the bolt and receiver. It is tighter than the Nucleus but it also functions differently as it does not have bolt lugs that engage the receiver to prevent rotation (roll) when the bolt is retracted. Rotation is prevented by the bolt stop and the ejector engaging a slot cut along the length of the bolt. Mitigating the tendency to bind relies more heavily on surface finish and coatings than it does in Nucleus and Archimedes. But this is a solvable problem as demonstrated by Accuracy International and Weatherby.
Ted
As I stated earlier, cases are surprisingly strong but I also acknowledge that case head separation do happen but almost never with new brass unless the barrel work is really really bad or the case is defective in a big way.
We have run the Coup De Grâce with 223 from and Accurate mag. Seems to work well but coned breech is a must for that one.
Ted
Was going to build a 7PRC on a Zermatt action I had sitting around. Think I'll wait a bit and build from one of these instead. I like the continuous evolution in design Ted!
If you decide to sell your model T for a discount too, let me know. Ted, how terrible of you to design a new action
I'm on board with pre-ordering this. I pre-ordered the nucleus when it first came out and have had almost zero issues. Only problem was light strikes on 224 valkyrie which was resolved with a heavier striker spring.
