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Coup De Grâce, New Action from American Rifle Company, $899 WOW!
- Thread starter karagias
- Start date
You can spot weld it back to original length or longer...ask me how I know
A friend of mine and myself are considering pooling resources for a rifle with th AXSR chassis and the CDG. It'll be even better if we can get a bent AI stille bolt handle for the non pivoting bolt handle design.
I’m not an Aero fanboy and I can’t predict the timeline but Aero says they’re planning both NV bridge and folder, fyi.
Won’t compete with AX but if they deliver it will be relatively inexpensive.
I plan to get bridge and folder if/when they become available.
XLR. It has an adjustable mag latch so you don't have to file anything either
same. At least on the NV bridge. The fixed 17" black model can be had for 719.10 on brownells right now
Did this ever get answered whether CDG would be fine with 277 fury? I see the hybrid ammo is actually available now.
AI AICS chassis are designed to work with aics mags. And they don’t support the use of AW as their opinion is that AW mags are for AI rifles.
So, you’ll very likely need to have the mag latch built up and cut down.
Adjustable mag catches are becoming more common, but generally speaking, using AW mags in a non AI rifle is like running BR cases in a repeater……it wasn’t designed for that application and you should expect to need to do some work to make it work properly.
I doubt you’ll ever see much from AI helping end users use their mag for something they didn’t design it for. Right or wrong, that’s typically how they roll.
Most have already made accommodations for impact actions.
So, most will likely fit. And if they don’t, it’s extremely simple to do minor milling (or dremel if you wish) to make the accommodation.
Trigger hangers and such are extremely minor modifications and nothing to worry much about.
Ammoseek showed a few places that had hybrid hunting versions available. e.g., https://ammoseek.com/ammo/277-fury?ikw=hybrid
Forgive me if this has been asked before, I came in late to this thread and skimmed most of the 40 pages, so here goes…
I love that the CDG accepts AW mags, but … are there AW mags available for .223/.378 or other calibers? If so, where are people getting them?
I love that the CDG accepts AW mags, but … are there AW mags available for .223/.378 or other calibers? If so, where are people getting them?
No AW's are not available for .223 or WSM/SAUM & there are no mag extensions because AW's are welded on the bottom & have a different bottom angle.
ARC needs to make them.............ARC needs to make them.............ARC needs to make them.............ARC needs to make them.............ARC needs to make them.............ARC needs to make them.............ARC needs to make them.............ARC needs to make them.............ARC needs to make them.............ARC needs to make them.............ARC needs to make them.............Hint!
Forgive my ignorance but what happens if you put saum case in AW mag? It won’t work as a quasi single stack?
The mag availability issue is why my 7SAUM and 223AI builds are staying on their current Archimedes actions. Both calibers are single stack mags only for now and run perfectly in the Archimedes since the Archimedes has an integral feed ramp for AICS mags.
If someone ever comes out with AW style double stack mags for 223 and magnum calibers I'll swap both those rifles over to the CDG at the next barrel change. My fingers will thank me not having to load single stack AICS mags anymore, lol.
If I was building those rifles today I'd start with a CDG and run AICS mags for now hoping that sometime in the future double stack mags for 223 and magnum start being made.
My new 22GT build was going to be on an Archimedes since I still have an unbuilt one in the safe, but since 22GT runs great out of AW mags I picked up a CDG for that build. Hoping the barrel and action get here about the same time...
If someone ever comes out with AW style double stack mags for 223 and magnum calibers I'll swap both those rifles over to the CDG at the next barrel change. My fingers will thank me not having to load single stack AICS mags anymore, lol.
If I was building those rifles today I'd start with a CDG and run AICS mags for now hoping that sometime in the future double stack mags for 223 and magnum start being made.
My new 22GT build was going to be on an Archimedes since I still have an unbuilt one in the safe, but since 22GT runs great out of AW mags I picked up a CDG for that build. Hoping the barrel and action get here about the same time...
Honestly I hope ARC doesn't abruptly stop production of the Archimedes. Not until they fully support the CDG with AW style mags.
Archimedes are fantastic actions & comparing CDG to the Archimedes for competition the Archimedes wins based on magazines alone unless your using a .473 case size.
I've run ARC mags with the std follower exclusively the past few years with GT's & Creedmoor's on KRG, Manners, & Xylo with ARC actions & Tika. Haven't had a miss feed or a nose dived round yet! With and without an extension. ARC just needs to make their own double stack that works with the AW cut.
I'm all in on the CDG & Ted is awesome for pushing the envelope. Now he just needs to push it with his own mag design.
Decided to go straight 308 win for the CDG build for 2 reasons.
a. I don't have a 308 bolt gun
b. I wanted to just order AW's that would plug and play in the Xylo or JAE. Will run this in some PRS TAC class this year.
Sitting here figuring out how I'm going to get an extension on One of these AW's. It's going to be a PITA. Might as well make it from scratch. I'll post up some pics when done. I really need to finish the retrofit on my little CNC mill while waiting for the action/barrel.
Never used AW's before so my bitches are probably well known to many of you.
AW's are easy to load sure, but beyond that I'm not very impressed. The feed lips are looong & that can't be good for CRF?? It's pretty damn easy to get 1 or a couple rounds to fly out of these. Rounds stick up so if you inadvertently push down on the front of the top round, out she comes. They're also going to need the feed lips tweaked a little so the rounds have full even contact with the lips + round below. That should help to keep them from popping out so easy.
I guess the Steyr double stacks have spoiled me. They don't have any of the above negatives. They allow 3.150" & have a rib inside that's just ahead of the shoulder. The rib keeps rounds from sliding forward & it steers the round towards center as it feeds. The THB's & SSG's are 2 lug with a 6 oclock lug sim. to the CDG.
Archimedes are fantastic actions & comparing CDG to the Archimedes for competition the Archimedes wins based on magazines alone unless your using a .473 case size.
I've run ARC mags with the std follower exclusively the past few years with GT's & Creedmoor's on KRG, Manners, & Xylo with ARC actions & Tika. Haven't had a miss feed or a nose dived round yet! With and without an extension. ARC just needs to make their own double stack that works with the AW cut.
I'm all in on the CDG & Ted is awesome for pushing the envelope. Now he just needs to push it with his own mag design.
Decided to go straight 308 win for the CDG build for 2 reasons.
a. I don't have a 308 bolt gun
b. I wanted to just order AW's that would plug and play in the Xylo or JAE. Will run this in some PRS TAC class this year.
Sitting here figuring out how I'm going to get an extension on One of these AW's. It's going to be a PITA. Might as well make it from scratch. I'll post up some pics when done. I really need to finish the retrofit on my little CNC mill while waiting for the action/barrel.
Never used AW's before so my bitches are probably well known to many of you.
AW's are easy to load sure, but beyond that I'm not very impressed. The feed lips are looong & that can't be good for CRF?? It's pretty damn easy to get 1 or a couple rounds to fly out of these. Rounds stick up so if you inadvertently push down on the front of the top round, out she comes. They're also going to need the feed lips tweaked a little so the rounds have full even contact with the lips + round below. That should help to keep them from popping out so easy.
I guess the Steyr double stacks have spoiled me. They don't have any of the above negatives. They allow 3.150" & have a rib inside that's just ahead of the shoulder. The rib keeps rounds from sliding forward & it steers the round towards center as it feeds. The THB's & SSG's are 2 lug with a 6 oclock lug sim. to the CDG.
I think you can use an AICS extension, you just cut out the bottom of the AW to let the spring come down more. There’s chatter about it somewhere on this forum.
Don’t ever drop a loaded AW mag
While I understand your concerns coming from your perspective, many of your concerns are completely unfounded regarding the use of AW mags in a competition environment. I believe that I’ve already covered that above, having experience over about 11 years of almost exclusive AW mag use.
And as I’ve also mentioned above, adapting the AW mag is very doable using a mill and the Area 419 extensions. I’ve not done it myself, but I’ve seen a couple in use that were done that way.
WATERS RIFLEMAN AI AICS RIFLE MAGAZINES
WATERS RIFLEMAN Precision metal magazines for AI and AICS Short Action and Long Action
www.watersrifleman.com
How so? You can still use AICS mags with the CDG.
Again not necessarily true, unless you drop it in a concrete pad maybe. Been there, done that. I’ve also been on the line when a match partner dropped his loaded AICS SS mag on a concrete pad from a kneeling position. It hit just right and popped off the bottom plate, sending everything in Different directions.I think you can use an AICS extension, you just cut out the bottom of the AW to let the spring come down more. There’s chatter about it somewhere on this forum.
Don’t ever drop a loaded AW mag
Again, already covered above. Things like this have a tendency to get exaggerated over time and internet composting.
Thing is, I also would love to see an ARC designed AW style DS mag on the market. There is always room for improvement and competition.
The AW I've seen with the 419 extension was pretty crude. It was just cut out enough to let the spring pass through. It slides right in the 419 extension but the lips are part of the welded bottom. The angle of the 419 is also wrong. Found it https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/aw-ae-aics-mag-diffrences.222/post-8428732
I've got an idea of how to do it & have some fasteners on order. Might start cutting the extension today.
My competition concerns aren't with regards to running the AW's. I plan on it with the 308. Concerns are only related to case sizes other than .473. You can run AICS, but it will require a different mag catch and adding the front tab into the chassis to locate them.
I’ve blown up various mags. Maybe overstated, but it’s doable unintentionally. Baseplates are a weakness on any mag, granted.
Hi @357Max
WATERS RIFLEMAN AI AICS RIFLE MAGAZINES
WATERS RIFLEMAN Precision metal magazines for AI and AICS Short Action and Long Action
Never seen those before... neat.
While they're still single feed at the lips, I kind of want to try one of those 2.6" OAL 10 round 223 magazines, being what appears to be DS/SF construction because of the reduced height of the magazine maybe means less pressure on the bolt and for the first few rounds out of the mag with a fully compressed spring compared to the current Accurate 223 mags that I run.
Still would like to see true double stack AW style mags for 223 and magnum calibers at some point that allow easy "snap in" loading, but unless the majority of action manufacturers out there start designing for AW mags there probably won't be enough demand for them to justify the development/tooling/manufacturing costs.
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Where .223 AW mag?WATERS RIFLEMAN AI AICS RIFLE MAGAZINES
WATERS RIFLEMAN Precision metal magazines for AI and AICS Short Action and Long Action
He basically solved the Tikka T3X mag issue.
During COVID I had him send me several of his mags... problem solved.
Dude makes all sorts of mags for many firearms where the OE mags are crazy expensive, or just plain old stink.
Still working my way through the thread, but thinking about picking one of these up for a .223 build. I've seen some concerns about feeding and unsupported case head with this caliber. Obviously a little early to know for sure, but is the consensus that this action will work well for .223, or is there a different ARC action I should be looking at instead?
Your case head will be supported as much if not more than usual.
As to whether there is a better action for .223, I won’t venture to say.
As to whether there is a better action for .223, I won’t venture to say.
Many pages back Ted stated they had done quite a bit of testing with 223, and it worked fine but a conical breech was mandatory for feeding because of both the small cartridge diameter and also because as of right now all 223 mags are AICS single stack (because of the 6 o'clock lug the CDG lacks a center feed ramp to help guide cartridges feeding from a single stack mag towards the chamber.)
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Very responsive fella! Only the .223 AICS DSSF mag, though. No AW.
The first two mags after the sled.
Code:
- 223 AICS pattern 10 shot 2.4" PN: 0152, A$155ea. AVAILABLE NOW. 135gr (4.76oz).
- 223 AICS pattern 10 shot 2.6" PN: 0154, A$155ea. AVAILABLE NOW. 135gr (4.76oz)
Contacted ARC regarding installing a CDG in a Xylo chassis and using AICS and AW magazines. I also asked if shorter latches and the AICS magazine stop tabs will be available for the Xylo chassis.
Below is my email and their response.
Below is my email and their response.
I have a Coup de Grace on order. I also plan to purchase a Xylo chassis.
I plan to shoot both .223 and 6.5 Creedmoor.
I'm confused by the Xylo compatibility description on your website and Ted's video demonstration of using both AW and AICS mags in the Xylo chassis with a CDG.
The webpage (https://www.americanrifle.com/shop/xylo-chassis-139#attr=301,228) for the Xylo chassis states that it is a "Short action chassis designed for AICS magazines - AW mags will fit but may require modification of latch".
Yet in Ted's video, he seems to contradict this and states the opposite. He states that a modified latch is needed to run AICS magazines. Is this due to the CDG action itself and not the chassis?
Will ARC offer the different magazine latches as an accessory for the Xylo chassis? Or do I need to have a gun smith make/modify a latch for running a AICS magazine with a CDG in a Xylo chassis?
Ted also mentions a small metal tab that can be placed between the action and the chassis to provide a hard stop for the front lip of an AICS magazine. I understand that this tab may or may not be necessary. Will this tab be available as an accessory?
Thanks for your help.
==================
Sorry for the confusion. For other actions, latch modification may be required to run AW mags as most are designed around AICS magazines.
We have chosen to optimize the Coup De Grâce action for use with AW magazines, which allows them to use a standard length magazine latch without modification and requires a shorter latch for AICS magazines.
We have extra magazine latches that can be easily shortened (for use with AICS mags and CDG), but I believe we will also be making shorter latches in the next batch.
The magazine stop tabs will be available if not provided with actions. The Xylo also has two small threaded holes and screws for this same purpose which can be used instead of the tab. The screws don't come with each chassis by default, but we can include them with a Xylo if requested. They're also available for purchase on our website: https://www.americanrifle.com/shop/1290
For you guys planning on running 223 I just came across these & in stock till word gets out I suspect.
www.area419.com
12-Round Extended .223 Accurate Mags
Shooting a 223 in a match has its own set of challenges – your mag doesn’t need to be one of them. Carry 12 rounds in the ultra-reliable Accurate mags, with an OAL of up to 2.500″ (it’s actually a little more, but you’ll figure that out) and stop worrying about those stages with a [...]
www.area419.com
