Coup De Grâce, New Action from American Rifle Company, $899 WOW!

[4O6shootist]

Will this action be compatible with the bolt heads from the nucleus and Archimedes?

I don't think so, there's no long leaf extractor, plus the lugs are orientated 120° out. This action is 1 lug down 2 up from pics. Nuke/Arch are 1 up, 2 down.

 

[karagias]

Will this action be compatible with the bolt heads from the nucleus and Archimedes?

Nope.

Ted

 

[Hondo1]

Ted how does the extractor strength compare to the Arch and Nuk?

 

[karagias]

I’m in for a short action and possibly a long action.

Ted,
Will the long action feed from the Hawkins Hunter magazine?

Thanks

I'm not sure but guessing yes. Current design of the LA mag wells accommodates AI type single stacks for .532 (300 PRC) and .588 (338 Norma) case heads. It's possible to cut a mag well for a true double stack up to .473 (308 Win) heads. Round belly of the R700 foot print does not accommodate larger double stack mags but feed rails/lips can be machined into the receiver for up to .532 quasi-double stack, as in original R700 long action in 300 WM for example.
Ted

 

[karagias]

I do not need a centerfire right now but I am ordering ASAP. ARC just read my mind with this design and hit everything I have been waiting in one action but haven’t been able to find. Well done Ted and crew!

Thanks for thanks the crew. Somehow they put up with me. Can't do it without them.

Ted

 

[karagias]

Low 3.6 sear I believe. You measured your action for it? From the bottom of the trigger pin to the bottom of the firing pin sear?


View attachment 8041465

That dimension is 4.39mm (0.173in) in the Coup. Highly recommend max sear engagement for safety. Not sure why BnA uses multiple sear bars.

Ted

 

[karagias]

Looking at the coned breach drawing Ted posted above, there is quite a bit of detail on the extractor exposed in the drawing. It appears that it has been designed such that rearward bolt movement engages a surface on the extractor piece and cams the extractor claw into the brass rim? I’m sure Ted will jump in and elaborate, but to my eyes it looks like another one of his well thought out and deliberate design tidbits that works in our favor.

You are correct. Positive feedback (self-reinforcing effect) ensures engagement with case rim. Nice observation.

Ted

 

[gearguywb]

Very nice! In for a couple when available

 

[karagias]

@karagias
How would this new extractor rate against the Nucleus, Archimedes and Mausingfield extractor? If I recall correctly, in the Nucleus video, you've stated something to the effect of not needing a spring to bias the extractor radially inwards is superior and demonstrated the strength of the "leaf spring" type extractor by bending a cartridge against a table. Will this new design be as robust?

I think so. It's a compact, hardened steel part driven by a ball and spring. The spring has a really high rate and undergoes very little motion as the extractor pivots over the case rim. A portion of the spring remains visible and that was done for easy disassembly/re-assembly, and consequently easy maintenance. Abusively packing the spring area with dirt had no effect on function.
Ted

 

[karagias]

Curious to know if savage prefits will work as I use them with the Barloc on all my other ARC actions.

Depends on the mag and caliber but we're recommending conical breeches. They're essential when using AICS mags. AIAW mags have worked with flat breech faces when running 6.5 CM and similar. Go with conical breeches. We'll work hard on getting barrel drawings on line and to barrel makers. I think 0.588 (338 LM and Norma) will work with flat breech faces as it is hard to miss that big hole.

308 Win breech looks like this but wait for the final drawings.

Ted

 

[karagias]

Damnit, lefty's left waiting again. But I'll drop a order as soon as it opens so I can add another to the stable.

I assume this has the same footprint as the rest of the fleet?

Yep

 

[karagias]

Love all the actions Ted. One thing that held me up in the past was lack of shouldered prefit availability. Being able to order up a proof barrel in a new caliber, similar to how easy it is to do for Zermatt action, would be awesome on the ARC actions. Any chances of broader shouldered prefit availability?

Edit: Updated to be clear that it's shouldered prefit availability, as I've done a Archimedes build with a savage barrel nut prefit.

Definitely going to work on it. Selling lots of these will make that easier.

Ted

 

[karagias]

@karagias

Ted, will you provide more specifics about barrels? Will the current prefit barrels for the Archimedes work?

Yes.

 

[lash]

I have and love a first Gen Nucleus and am very looking forward to getting one of these. Incredible looks and design features!

 

[karagias]

@Baron85 You’ll be able to swap out the bolt handle for a non-pivoting one that won’t have the slop.

I’m not referring to the pivoting bolt handle, I was referring to the bolt body to action slop at the back of the bolt travel. Basically open the bolt and slide it all the way open, then grab the back of the bolt and there was a lot of slop basically the bolt body would shake around vs impact/defiance ect has minimal movement.

While Ted will have to be the one to tell you for certain from the renderings atleast, the bolt body appears much thicker and fills the raceway much more and is why I assume Ted added the fluting. I'm guessing he did this to appease the crowd that complained about the slop even though that was part of the arch design with the tapered bolt design of it to be able to run no matter the conditions

Dustyplyr hit that nail on the head, and hit it hard. I hope I'm doing the right thing.

The Coup De Grâce is a fat bolt similar to the AI and in feels a bit like the AI apart from not having to cock on close. The flutes do seem to tolerate lots of dirt. Current design has 0.2mm (0.008 in) of diametral clearance between the bolt and receiver. The bolt does have more support (length/diameter) then our other actions when fully retracted.

We'll be shooting much more over the next couple of weeks so we'll see how goes.

Ted

 

[karagias]

Are there AW mags out there that work with the 7 PRC? 300WM version maybe?

Maybe but they wouldn't work in this action or any other having a Rem700 footprint. Receiver belly diameter is to small for true double stack 0.532" cases.

Ted

 

[karagias]

Will this action have the “slop” in the bolt especially at the back of the throw like an archimedes? That’s is what got me to sell my archimedes, I just really enjoy that tighter feel like an impact or defiance.

I do really miss the short bolt throw and mechanical ejector, this looks like a home run.

I enjoy the fact that the Nucleus and the Archimedes could always run in the shit. Who do you think knew more about designing robust actions? Mauser with experience of countless 20th century hell-on-earth conflicts or ...

Ted

 

[karagias]

I’ll definitely be buying 1 or 2. A few questions @karagias :
Is the Archimedes being discontinued? Should I be stocking up on wear parts for mine?
Will my Arch action wrench work with the new action?
Are there meaningful compromises in extraction compared to the claw on the Arch/Nucleus?

Yes. The Coup De Grâce is kinda like Archimedes 2.0.

Nope. Totally different receiver.

Hard to say and time. I like the fact that the Nuc and The Arch used flexures as extractor but they are not as robust as the Coup De Grâce in regards to surviving case head separations.

The Coup uses an extractor not unlike that used in the Sako TRG, albeit with much greater case rim engagement necessary for the high extraction forces that one can easily generate wit the pivoting bolt handle. Another difference between the two is that the Coup's extractor is in a bolt lug while the Sako's is between lugs. This is important because when in battery, the motion of the Coup's extractor is limited by the inner wall of the receiver. This, couple with the fact that the extractor is a compact, hardened steel part is what enables it to survive case head separation. That said, some case head separation events can be extremely severe in which case all bets are off.

Any concerns about bolt lug strength due to the extractor pocket are unwarranted. Within the Coup, the bolt lugs always with their battle against the receiver simply because they are much harder and loaded in a more favorable way during explosive events.

Ted

 

[ohiofarmer]

@karagias, given that you’re going to sell thousands of these in the coming years, might you have plans to sell a trigger of your own design, too?

 

[karagias]

That's absolutely beautiful Ted. Thanks for sharing. How about accepting pre-orders from customers who pre-ordered Mausingfields and Nucleus and never bitched about delivery?

Maybe we should but more testing first. If we do it, maybe we include a "you waive your right to bitch about deliver" clause. Joking of course. We're working hard to put the piece in place to keep these in stock. Makino a61nx just landed and Tsugami swiss is inbound. More turning centers to come soon.

Ted

 

[karagias]

@karagias, given that you’re going to sell thousands of these in the coming years, might you have plans to sell a trigger of your own design, too?

I think doing so would be smart.

Ted

 

[Birch7]

Thanks for the kind words.

I've always had reverence for companies, or more appropriately teams of smart people, that can offer amazing products at prices that reflect the vestiges of capitalism and the specialization of labor. As an example, pull your phone from your pocket and call someone on the other side of the planet, or disassemble your Glock, or drive your car. And all this still in a world retarded by the unnecessary friction that is corrupt, unjust governance. Imaging a world with less friction efficiently pushing back against entropy. The possibilities are awe inspiring.

But in regards to bolt actions specifically, I can only surmise that my competitors are just not proficient makers and that their prices reflect their inefficiencies. So all I ask from you, the customer, is that you pass judgement. Evaluate the offerings honestly and critically. Reward with your dollars those who perform. I think you'll make the right decision.

Ted

I have to say that the "Ted Talk" insights are also appreciated.

Back to the hardware: Any PPC bolt faces on the first run? I want to do some kinky grendel wildcat shit to this thing.

 

[LR1845]

@karagias Ted someone above asked and i was wondering as well are you going to discontinue any of your current actions?

 

[karagias]

Peter Capatick killed dozens of them during his culling operations back in the day with a .458 Win Mag. The key is to not leave the one in the bottom of the magazine and shoot 15 times otherwise it gets extra spicy due to the compression.

As for the action I’m in for a short and a long, what I’ll use them for I have no idea but with an M3, Original M5, M7 and M9 I’m just stacking the ARC actions deep at my house.

It's said, actually well documented, WDM Bell shoot over 1000 elephants with a 7x57 Mauser.

I wouldn't shoot and elephant. I love them, but I also get it.

Ted

 

[karagias]

We need another maker of an Africa caliber action.

Controlled round feed and 100% reliable.

Works with 505 Gibbs, 500 Jeffery, 460 Weatherby, 416 Rigby and so on...

Just in case you want another project and want to help those of us gearing to stop big things from running us over.

Blast from the past. This was my first action design. I never put it into production.

Ted

 

[karagias]

I have to say that the "Ted Talk" insights are also appreciated.

Back to the hardware: Any PPC bolt faces on the first run? I want to do some kinky grendel wildcat shit to this thing.

Not sure but easy to do.

Ted

 

[karagias]

@karagias Ted someone above asked and i was wondering as well are you going to discontinue any of your current actions?

Archimedes for sure. No point in making both the Coup and the Archimedes, not for now anyway. But the Archimedes is still a great action.

That said, as the company grows and hopefully becomes better managed, maybe the Arch is reserected. Please like variety and I'm not one to tell their hearts what they should desire.

Ted

 

[ForgeValley]

Dustyplyr hit that nail on the head, and hit it hard. I hope I'm doing the right thing.



The Coup De Grâce is a fat bolt similar to the AI and in feels a bit like the AI apart from not having to cock on close. The flutes do seem to tolerate lots of dirt. Current design has 0.2mm (0.008 in) of diametral clearance between the bolt and receiver. The bolt does have more support (length/diameter) then our other actions when fully retracted.



We'll be shooting much more over the next couple of weeks so we'll see how goes.

Ted, what is the bolt diameter? I love fat bolts and I can not lie...

 

[stanley_white]

Dustyplyr hit that nail on the head, and hit it hard. I hope I'm doing the right thing.

The Coup De Grâce is a fat bolt similar to the AI and in feels a bit like the AI apart from not having to cock on close. The flutes do seem to tolerate lots of dirt. Current design has 0.2mm (0.008 in) of diametral clearance between the bolt and receiver. The bolt does have more support (length/diameter) then our other actions when fully retracted.

We'll be shooting much more over the next couple of weeks so we'll see how goes.

Ted

I enjoy the fact that the Nucleus and the Archimedes could always run in the shit. Who do you think knew more about designing robust actions? Mauser with experience of countless 20th century hell-on-earth conflicts or ...

Ted

Being a Mauser fan, I am interested to find out more about the results of skinny vs fatter bolt diameter and reliability.

-Stan

 

[atomic41]

Ted, I have a single digit Nuke, big fan but this is so tempting that I will probably jump on it. I have a barrel question, my apology for being fuzzybrained on what fits. I have a PVA replacement for the Nuke in 6.5CM that has not been installed yet. Will this fit the new action? Thanks in advance.

 

[karagias]

Ted how does the extractor strength compare to the Arch and Nuk?

Coup is more tolerant of case head separations. Extraction ability is comparable as the Archimedes because both use pivoting handles and must have extractors that are stronger than the case rims. Your ability to extract using either action is limited by the strength of the case rim, not the extractor.

Ted

 

[karagias]

Must admit, had to wipe a bit of drool from the corner of my mouth. Can’t wait…..

What is the possibility of a Hide pre-order?

Note sure. Needs to be discussed internally.

Ted

 

[karagias]

Does the extractor flex and stop contacting the case rim when you close the bolt like on the Mausingfield?

Is this sort of an Archimedes 2.0, or does the Archimedes retain some features that this doesn't have?

No, extractor behavior is different than that of the Mausingfield.

Yes, the Coup is kind of like an Archimedes 2.0.

 

[S3th]

Go to a smith that makes them then? PVA already said they’ve been testing and are ready to cut em

Proof puts out high quality prefits and while I have owned and may buy a PVA barrel for this action; PVA does not have pricing power. I picked up a Zeus Prefit for $450 last month. I couldn’t get that degree of quality and pricing from PVA, SJ, BM, etc.

If Ted can work on a relationship with Proof for this action I have no doubt adoption will be higher than without.

 

[karagias]

Curious to know why this type of extractor was used over the ones found in the Arch/Nuke or MF. I've seen this extractor design used in pistols, can't recall if I've ever seen it anywhere else.

Couldn't get a flexure to cooperate with the bolt lug. Coup's extractor design is similar to that in the Sako TRG. Wouldn't surprise me if there are other predecessors as well.

Ted

 

[4O6shootist]

Dustyplyr hit that nail on the head, and hit it hard. I hope I'm doing the right thing.

The Coup De Grâce is a fat bolt similar to the AI and in feels a bit like the AI apart from not having to cock on close. The flutes do seem to tolerate lots of dirt. Current design has 0.2mm (0.008 in) of diametral clearance between the bolt and receiver. The bolt does have more support (length/diameter) then our other actions when fully retracted.

We'll be shooting much more over the next couple of weeks so we'll see how goes.

Ted

@karagias you say it feels a bit like an AI.......the bolt lift on my ATX is insane compared to any quality rem700 clone, including my Arch and Nuke. I hope the coup de grace and AI do not share that similarity, and resembles the bolt opening weight of the Arch.

 

[jbuck88]

I'll be sad to see the archimedes go. Probably my favorite action for me and my kids. I guess I'll have to get in line and order one of these as well.
I like the pivoting bolt to easy of extraction especially with the smaller kids.

 

[karagias]

As I mentioned in the "Defiant Machine" Bought Out thread, link here:

Automation Matters

I stated as much in that post: Someone can start from scratch building actions with close to 100% automation and make high quality products that will rule the bolt action sub market. Remains to be seen how close AFC followed this model but if price is any indication then the other bolt action makers should be looking for investment capital soon, and it's not the best time to do this, US economy wise.

The bottom line here is that making a high quality bolt action using automation is not that difficult, and is a lot cheaper in the long run. Take Space X. All of a sudden, at least in the shortest years ever, they rule the rocket business. They bypassed the old ways and are very heavily automated.

Definitely a multifaceted problem.
Ted

 

[karagias]

Ted can you post a image of the bolt head and I hate you.

I love you too.

Ted

 

[karagias]

Holy shit.

Will there be an offering without the bolt knob anodizing?

What's wrong with the bolt ano? I like it.

Ted

 

[ForgeValley]

What's wrong with the bolt ano? I like it.


Ted

LOL, it's awesome, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. It won't be for everyone, Burris put some red accents on their XTR Pro scope, some liked it, some didn't.

 

[LR1845]

Note sure. Needs to be discussed internally.

Ted

Ted if you work out a SH pre-order im in for one with both bolt handles...or better yet one in the XYLO in 6.5CM with both bolt handles!

 

[jb0311]

I do not need a centerfire right now but I am ordering ASAP. ARC just read my mind with this design and hit everything I have been waiting in one action but haven’t been able to find. Well done Ted and crew!

Same. My backlog of needing optics just keeps getting worse lol.

 

[CMP70306]

Depends on the mag and caliber but we're recommending conical breeches. They're essential when using AICS mags. AIAW mags have worked with flat breech faces when running 6.5 CM and similar. Go with conical breeches. We'll work hard on getting barrel drawings on line and to barrel makers. I think 0.588 (338 LM and Norma) will work with flat breech faces as it is hard to miss that big hole.

308 Win breech looks like this but wait for the final drawings.

View attachment 8041548

Ted

Thank you for the info, I saw on Instagram that someone mentioned the possibility of a lightweight version in the works. Any info you can share on that?

 

[jbuck88]

P.s. also in for a pre-order.

 

[Mike Casselton]

I have and love a first Gen Nucleus and am very looking forward to getting one of these. Incredible looks and design features!

I'm with you, but I'll have to wait on the long action. Exactly as pictured in post #1.

That 7 Mag barrel is almost gone and it needs to be replaced. Might as well build a completely new rifle.


I feel like Baruka in Charlie and the chocolate factory.
I WANT IT NOW!!!!

 

[D_Lamz]

Definitely in for one of these or the (lightweight) one mentioned on Instagram.

Off topic Ted, but whatever happened to the M2 action? I've always liked that thing

 

[karagias]

Ted if you work out a SH pre-order im in for one with both bolt handles...or better yet one in the XYLO in 6.5CM with both bolt handles!

I think the Xylo is the best chassis no one knows about, but that belongs on a different thread. Back to the Coup...

Ted

 

[karagias]

Thank you for the info, I saw on Instagram that someone mentioned the possibility of a lightweight version in the works. Any info you can share on that?

Not yet. Needs work.

Ted

 

[Mike Casselton]

Depends on the mag and caliber but we're recommending conical breeches. They're essential when using AICS mags. AIAW mags have worked with flat breech faces when running 6.5 CM and similar. Go with conical breeches. We'll work hard on getting barrel drawings on line and to barrel makers. I think 0.588 (338 LM and Norma) will work with flat breech faces as it is hard to miss that big hole.

308 Win breech looks like this but wait for the final drawings.

View attachment 8041548

Ted

I really like conical breeches.

Not to derail, but the BR guys mostly use conical because it really helps that PPC round to go quickly into the chamber without a hiccup.
I bought a Kauger action last year to build a 6-BR and it feeds like greased goose shit on glass. In fact, it works very well with 5 round P-mags.

I highly recommend conical.

Did I mention I like them too?

Impatiently waiting on a Long Action...