How and when to utilize abrasive bore cleaners

[Lawnboi]

After reading @Frank Green talk about cleaning and carbon ring removal I decided it’s time I take care of my neglected barrels. Some of my barrels are getting up there in round count, and cleaning carbon is getting harder and harder. Jb bore paste is what Iv seen some recommend as a mild abrasive so Iv got a couple jars coming.

Question for guys using an abrasive cleaner, how do you use it? Patch and jag? Back and forth in the throat or one single pass? How often are you using it?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Kambaku]

I use JB Bore Paste in the following manner. Use an appropriately sized bronze brush. Wrap a patch around the bronze brush and soak it with Kroil penetrant oil. Apply JB Bore past to the soaked patch. Insert into bore through a bore guide and brush back and forth in the bore. Clean bore with fresh patches following use.

This was the method taught to me by Kenny Jarrett of Jarrett Rifles. Seems to work well in my hands.

 

[TxWelder35]

If it’s a stainless barrel let some CLR sit in it.

 

[gixxer822]

One jag with a patch. Then nylon chamber brush back and forth

 

[Huskydriver]

If it’s a stainless barrel let some CLR sit in it.

Yup clr followed up by letting wipe out dissolve

 

[Nik H]

After reading @Frank Green talk about cleaning and carbon ring removal I decided it’s time I take care of my neglected barrels. Some of my barrels are getting up there in round count, and cleaning carbon is getting harder and harder. Jb bore paste is what Iv seen some recommend as a mild abrasive so Iv got a couple jars coming.

Question for guys using an abrasive cleaner, how do you use it? Patch and jag? Back and forth in the throat or one single pass? How often are you using it?

Thanks in advance.

I seldom use it. I clean the barrels every 100 rounds and use a really good carbon remover and that is pretty sufficient. When I do use JB, it is always in the manner that Frank described. Never use a bronze brush with the paste or you'll do more damage than good. Doesn't matter if you wrap the brush in a patch. Look at the pictures he posted. Never used nylon so no opinion there.

The JB with a patch is more than adequate.

YMMV

 

[brianf]

as been told by every reputable barrel maker...forever

clean your rifles regularly and all these questions go away.

 

[Mark Buettgen]

Hey Folks,
If it's time to use an abrasive, Please, Please, Please do not use a brush or a patch wrapped around a brush--you can/will damage your barrel.
I wrecked the best 6PPC barrel I ever had by using an abrasive on a nylon brush, taking almost .0008" out of the back half of the barrel in only 700 rounds--please don't do it.
Also use CLR at your own peril--we've found it does etch stainless very quickly and do not recommend it's use.
When I use an abrasive I only use it on a patch and even use a separate rod guide so as not to keep dragging residual paste into the bore when done.
I start by doing a normal cleaning, then switch guides and use 3 patches with JB bore compound short stroking them concentrating on the throat and then down the rest of the bore. Then about 3 dry patches to get most of it out and switch back the guide and do another full cleaning with 2 wet patches, a wet brush for about 10 strokes, followed by 2 more wet patches and let it sit for a bit. Then 2 dry patches followed by a patch with a little light oil or Lock Ease and I'm ready to go.
Later, Mark Buettgen
Bartlein Barrels

 

[buggz]

following...

 

[brianf]

following...

no need to follow...thread should be locked

several do's and do-nots in the above post

from a buy who sees barrels all day and who messed up his own.

 

[Kambaku]

Hey Folks,
If it's time to use an abrasive, Please, Please, Please do not use a brush or a patch wrapped around a brush--you can/will damage your barrel.
I wrecked the best 6PPC barrel I ever had by using an abrasive on a nylon brush, taking almost .0008" out of the back half of the barrel in only 700 rounds--please don't do it.
Also use CLR at your own peril--we've found it does etch stainless very quickly and do not recommend it's use.
When I use an abrasive I only use it on a patch and even use a separate rod guide so as not to keep dragging residual paste into the bore when done.
I start by doing a normal cleaning, then switch guides and use 3 patches with JB bore compound short stroking them concentrating on the throat and then down the rest of the bore. Then about 3 dry patches to get most of it out and switch back the guide and do another full cleaning with 2 wet patches, a wet brush for about 10 strokes, followed by 2 more wet patches and let it sit for a bit. Then 2 dry patches followed by a patch with a little light oil or Lock Ease and I'm ready to go.
Later, Mark Buettgen
Bartlein Barrels

Thanks for this follow up and information. It appears that what I learned about how to use JB bore paste may not have been the best information after all. I trust your findings.

 

[Frank Green]

Mark summed it up pretty good and we are on the same page.

I would caution you also that we are talking here on this thread two different types of JB.

You have JB bore compound...

You have JB bore brite.....

I/we will only use the JB Bore Compound. Not the bore brite.

Later, Frank

 

[Frank Green]

This is what happens when you use a brush with an abrasive cleaner! I've posted this picture several times and it never gets old as to what can happen!

This was a 7mm (284W) F class barrel. At 100 rounds accuracy started to suffer. The picture is at 800 rounds. The bore and groove should measure .277" x .284". It now measures .279" x .2855"! So basically polished a full .002" out of the bore and .0015" out of the grooves. The lands (the bore) sticks up so it will take the brunt of the damage from improper cleaning.

The gouges are from the bristles of the brush and the brush is trying to rotate with the twist of the rifling but there is no way every bristle is going to follow/stay in the grooves. So the bristles will ride up and over the top of the lands and down the trailing side of the land.

Later, Frank

 

[brianf]

…now can we lock the thread lol..

 

[Alekmcal]

After reading @Frank Green talk about cleaning and carbon ring removal I decided it’s time I take care of my neglected barrels. Some of my barrels are getting up there in round count, and cleaning carbon is getting harder and harder. Jb bore paste is what Iv seen some recommend as a mild abrasive so Iv got a couple jars coming.

Question for guys using an abrasive cleaner, how do you use it? Patch and jag? Back and forth in the throat or one single pass? How often are you using it?

Thanks in advance.

Can you tell me where to ind that article. I would love to see his process for this thanks

 

[Nik H]

Can you tell me where to ind that article. I would love to see his process for this thanks

Carbon Ring Removal

 

[Alekmcal]

Carbon Ring Removal

Thank!

 

[acudaowner]

Id rather soak that scrub but if that's what you like to scour your barrel

 

[4thandbleek]

I used JB's which is quite abrasive and can damage the bore if not used properly, rounding off the edges of the rifling. A little goes a long way so be careful and don't over do i think its great product for those stubborn spots.

 

[Jon_K508]

After reading @Frank Green talk about cleaning and carbon ring removal I decided it’s time I take care of my neglected barrels. Some of my barrels are getting up there in round count, and cleaning carbon is getting harder and harder. Jb bore paste is what Iv seen some recommend as a mild abrasive so Iv got a couple jars coming.

Question for guys using an abrasive cleaner, how do you use it? Patch and jag? Back and forth in the throat or one single pass? How often are you using it?

Thanks in advance.

I used JB's which is quite abrasive and can damage the bore if not used properly, rounding off the edges of the rifling. A little goes a long way so be careful and don't over do i think its great product for those stubborn spots.

Anyone use kroil? I started using it. Hadn’t put it to the test yet but seems to clean the barrel well.

 

[Frank Green]

As an update.....

People keep doing it!

Got in a 260AI F class gun last week. Similar gouge marks are showing and the shooter has polished a full .002" out of the barrel.

Bore should measure .256"....it now measures .258"!
Groove should measure .264" and those measure .2657".

Supposedly the barrel only has a 100 rounds fired on it.

Bullets are going thru the target sideways even before a they get to a 100 yards. Why....basically the bullets are skipping/sliding over the tops of the lands/rifling. Think about it...if the grooves are almost at .266" and the bullet diameter is .264". That only gives you a .001" per side to bite and drive the bullet and stabilize it.

Later, Frank

 

[hlee]

As an update.....

People keep doing it!

Got in a 260AI F class gun last week. Similar gouge marks are showing and the shooter has polished a full .002" out of the barrel.

Bore should measure .256"....it now measures .258"!
Groove should measure .264" and those measure .2657".

Supposedly the barrel only has a 100 rounds fired on it.

Bullets are going thru the target sideways even before a they get to a 100 yards. Why....basically the bullets are skipping/sliding over the tops of the lands/rifling. Think about it...if the grooves are almost at .266" and the bullet diameter is .264". That only gives you a .001" per side to bite and drive the bullet and stabilize it.

Later, Frank

Ok, now I'm confused. The bore of the rifle in question is polished out to 0.258. The bullet diameter is 0.264. Shouldn't that give you 0.006 (or 0.003 per side) to drive the bullet and stabilize it. Seems the larger issue would be the 0.002 of space between the bullet and the groove for gas blowby and poor fit because the bullet is too skinny for the overpolised barrel. But, I'm not a gunsmith...

 

[Frank Green]

Ok, now I'm confused. The bore of the rifle in question is polished out to 0.258. The bullet diameter is 0.264. Shouldn't that give you 0.006 (or 0.003 per side) to drive the bullet and stabilize it. Seems the larger issue would be the 0.002 of space between the bullet and the groove for gas blowby and poor fit because the bullet is too skinny for the overpolised barrel. But, I'm not a gunsmith...

Correct…..taking away from the lands….the lands do the driving of the bullet.

We made test barrels a few years back for Socom in 30cal. that had standard bore and groove dimensions and other barrels that where .+003” and +.005”. The +.003” barrels shot good/ok but the .+005” didn’t shoot good at all. Making the bore and or grooves bigger you do get to a point where accuracy will suffer.

From what I’ve seen over the years I’ll say when you start going smaller on the caliber (under .30cal) the more sensitive/tempermental things are going to be.

Also just think of this…..in this case with the 6.5mm….bullet diameter is .264”. Let’s leave the bore out of the conversation for now. Let’s pretend the barrel is a smooth bore for a minute. If the bullet is .264” and groove size is also .264” you have size on size. Bullet will not be a loose sloppy fit in the barrel. Now open that up to .268”. Now the bullet fits loose in the barrel and will bounce around going down the bore like a BB gun.

 

[pineoak]

@Frank Green

Is this still accurate? Any opinions on PatchOut or Boretech Eliminator?

How to Clean a Barrel | Bartlein Barrels

www.bartleinbarrels.com

 

[Frank Green]

@Frank Green

Is this still accurate? Any opinions on PatchOut or Boretech Eliminator?

How to Clean a Barrel | Bartlein Barrels

www.bartleinbarrels.com

Still pretty accurate.

I’ve never used patchout…so cannot comment on that.

I know of plenty of places/people that use Boretech Eliminator and seem to be no issues.

I tell guys this…if you have a cleaning procedure and your getting the barrel clean and your not wrecking anything….. I’ve got nothing to say. Also think of this…if the guy next to you is cleaning differently…doesn’t mean he’s doing it better than you and that he could be wrecking stuff also.

 

[Frank Green]

Unless your a chemist….don’t go making your own bore cleaner and or mixing cleaners together. You have no idea on how the chemicals are going to react with one another as well as how it will react with the fouling in the bore of the barrel as well as how it will react with the barrel steel.

Use a product that has a proven track record.

 

[6.5SH]

As an update.....

People keep doing it!

Got in a 260AI F class gun last week. Similar gouge marks are showing and the shooter has polished a full .002" out of the barrel.

Bore should measure .256"....it now measures .258"!
Groove should measure .264" and those measure .2657".

Supposedly the barrel only has a 100 rounds fired on it.

Bullets are going thru the target sideways even before a they get to a 100 yards. Why....basically the bullets are skipping/sliding over the tops of the lands/rifling. Think about it...if the grooves are almost at .266" and the bullet diameter is .264". That only gives you a .001" per side to bite and drive the bullet and stabilize it.

Later, Frank

What was the abrasive in use this time?

 

[Baron23]

I don’t want to even contemplate abrasive cleaning products. I’m the kind of guy that would def frak it up.

Got a carbon ring? Plug one end of the barrel, hang it vertically, and fill w BoreTech carbon remover. Let it sit there as long as you like. It works.

 

[obx22]

Why, why, why would you use an abrasive? Yamaha Combustion Chamber Cleaner. Yes
Safe for blued steel, safe for stainless, removes carbon from your bore without a bunch of blessed scrubbing. Like Kroil, will get under lead and help with removal with a simple nylon brush. Been using this for nearly 30 years, but, you do you.

 

[Frank Green]

What was the abrasive in use this time?

I have to try and get a hold of the guy on the phone. I ran out of time yesterday and had to leave early. His letter didn't say anything about how he was cleaning and what he was using to clean it or if he fire lapped the barrel. He has to be honest with me as well.

I'll update the thread when I find out.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

I have success with bore paste but I use it sparingly. Working in manufacturing and seeing retail consumer misuse I understand exactly what Frank goes through. I imagine he frequently questions how humanity continues to thrive when some people struggle with the sense to even tie their own shoes.

 

[carbonbased]

I have success with bore paste but I use it sparingly. Working in manufacturing and seeing retail consumer misuse I understand exactly what Frank goes through. I imagine he frequently questions how humanity continues to thrive when some people struggle with the sense to even tie their own shoes.

Describing how they clean, it seems I often read the phrase “go to town” when some fellow describes how they clean a chamber or bore. Always while browsing other firearm forums, ha!

It makes me wince, with images in my head of cordless drills spinning stainless brushes at 2000rpm. I can almost hear the faint sound of the “cleaner’s” Mwahahahahah! as they roto-root the poor gun.

 

[obx22]

Describing how they clean, it seems I often read the phrase “go to town” when some fellow describes how they clean a chamber or bore. Always while browsing other firearm forums, ha!

It makes me wince, with images in my head of cordless drills spinning stainless brushes at 2000rpm. I can almost hear the faint sound of the “cleaner’s” Mwahahahahah! as they roto-root the poor gun.

That description is unsettlingly accurate. I received a few 40XBs from the CMP that appeared to have that treatment.

 

[carbonbased]

That description is unsettlingly accurate. I received a few 40XBs from the CMP that appeared to have that treatment.

I think especially benchrest shooting attracts OCD overly-meticulous types, and there’s a large subset of those that CANNOT STAND anything dirty. Sigh…poor Frank Green.

 

[Frank Green]

Describing how they clean, it seems I often read the phrase “go to town” when some fellow describes how they clean a chamber or bore. Always while browsing other firearm forums, ha!

It makes me wince, with images in my head of cordless drills spinning stainless brushes at 2000rpm. I can almost hear the faint sound of the “cleaner’s” Mwahahahahah! as they roto-root the poor gun.

Yeah the RPM!

Busted a guy at a bench match claiming we had bad steel and that the throat was pushing metal! Then blamed the gunsmith for using a dull / worn chamber reamer to do his barrels. He got caught red handed at a match cleaning his gun/barrel with a cordless drill on high with a wooden dowel/shaft chucked in the drill and with emery cloth on the end of it. He said he was trying to get the carbon ring out of the throat/chamber area! He didn't do it to one barrel and not two barrels but three or four that we know of!

Warranty denied! LOL!

 

[Frank Green]

I have to try and get a hold of the guy on the phone. I ran out of time yesterday and had to leave early. His letter didn't say anything about how he was cleaning and what he was using to clean it or if he fire lapped the barrel. He has to be honest with me as well.

I'll update the thread when I find out.

OK so it wasn't with an abrasive cleaner and a brush....

Turned out they where putting an abrasive or using bullets impregnated with an abrasive of some sort. Basically fire lapping the bore.

 

[carbonbased]

Yeah the RPM!

Busted a guy at a bench match claiming we had bad steel and that the throat was pushing metal! Then blamed the gunsmith for using a dull / worn chamber reamer to do his barrels. He got caught red handed at a match cleaning his gun/barrel with a cordless drill on high with a wooden dowel/shaft chucked in the drill and with emery cloth on the end of it. He said he was trying to get the carbon ring out of the throat/chamber area! He didn't do it to one barrel and not two barrels but three or four that we know of!

Warranty denied! LOL!

If those bastards could get a belt sander or angle grinder in there, they would!

I’m surprised none of them (that we KNOW of) have rigged up a overly powerful laser to scour the bore or popping the barrel in a kiln or something.

 

[Frank Green]

Going to the extreme opposite end of the spectrum on this right now.....

Not abrasive damage but one of the guys here that helps me in the office just got done cleaning a 204 Ruger barrel (we made the blank but didn't do the fitting work).

It was so carbon fouled when we got it that he couldn't push the first patches down the bore from the breech end. The bore scope wouldn't fit in from the breech end! He spent four days cleaning it.

Guy told us he never cleaned it since day one.

He wants us to replace the barrel! Nothing wrong with it....you have to clean it sometime!

 

[Frank Green]

If those bastards could get a belt sander or angle grinder in there, they would!

I’m surprised none of them (that we KNOW of) have rigged up a overly powerful laser to scour the bore or popping the barrel in a kiln or something.

I'm not holding my breath! It's coming!!!!

 

[carbonbased]

In fact, I have a new cleaning vision…I can see it now…the sales pitch…

“I have an unstoppable bore cleaning regimen. Just Invented and patented!!

Let me tell you how it works, fellas. To break the barrel in:

1. Don’t even shoot once
2. Remove barrel
3. Fly to Hawaii
4. Go to active volcano
5. Climb to the edge of the caldera (need a shiny suit and respirator)
6. Scoop up some pumice
7. Pull out your finest cleaning rod and patches
8. Bow your head. Look directly into the barrel.
9. Murmur a gentle prayer into the sulfurous air
10. Gently drop pumice first, then rod, & patches into the volcano as an offering to the gods
11. Wait, you thought we were going to clean the bore with pumice? You savage!
12. Now firmly grab the barrel
13. Casually toss barrel into volcano
14. Tie my $99 special lava-resistant line through bore (whoops should‘ve been step #13!!!)
15. Desperately attempt to catch barrel
16. Fall into lava, you frigging clown

Unstoppable, I say!”

Plus very few returns.

 

[6.5SH]

OK so it wasn't with an abrasive cleaner and a brush....

Turned out they where putting an abrasive or using bullets impregnated with an abrasive of some sort. Basically fire lapping the bore.

I can understand trying that on a mass produced low quality finish barrel, did they not even LOOK at it first?

 

[obx22]

In fact, I have a new cleaning vision…I can see it now…the sales pitch…

“I have an unstoppable bore cleaning regimen. Just Invented and patented!!

Let me tell you how it works, fellas. To break the barrel in:

1. Don’t even shoot once
2. Remove barrel
3. Fly to Hawaii
4. Go to active volcano
5. Climb to the edge of the caldera (need a shiny suit and respirator)
6. Scoop up some pumice
7. Pull out your finest cleaning rod and patches
8. Bow your head. Look directly into the barrel.
9. Murmur a gentle prayer into the sulfurous air
10. Gently drop pumice first, then rod, & patches into the volcano as an offering to the gods
11. Wait, you thought we were going to clean the bore with pumice? You savage!
12. Now firmly grab the barrel
13. Casually toss barrel into volcano
14. Tie my $99 special lava-resistant line through bore (whoops should‘ve been step #13!!!)
15. Desperately attempt to catch barrel
16. Fall into lava, you frigging clown

Unstoppable, I say!”

Plus very few returns.

Hmmm, Lava Lapping….
Sounds familiar somehow

 

[Frank Green]

I can understand trying that on a mass produced low quality finish barrel, did they not even LOOK at it first?

Not the first time guys have done it to a brand new high end barrel.

I've told guys this. If you have a lower quality or a factory type barrel that is really rough and fouling bad and you don't have a lot of money to rebarrel the gun and or the barrel is coming to the end of it's life and you want to try and smooth the bore out etc....you've got nothing to lose. Try something...or experiment on something where if you wreck it your not out a bunch of money.

On a barrel like ours...I tell guys if your having a problem give us a call first and let's try and figure out what is going on before you start doing stuff to it that might make the situation worse or you damage it to the point that it's junk etc...

 

[carbonbased]

Hmmm, Lava Lapping….
Sounds familiar somehow

Oh no! That was a thing?

 

[carbonbased]

Oh no! That was a thing?

Another area of my life that defies parody.

 

[obx22]

Another area of my life that defies parody.

More like a dad joke/poor pun:
Lava Lamp
(I hear those groans)

 

[carbonbased]

More like a dad joke/poor pun:
Lava Lamp
(I hear those groans)

Ok good. I thought someone out there actually poured pumice in their barrel!

 

[obx22]

Ok good. I thought someone out there actually poured pumice in their barrel!

I’m sure someone does somewheres
A buddy suggested I use pumice to dull a shiny stock finish (genuine gun reference )!

 

[rustyinbend]

I'm a little surprised nobody in this thread had mention Iossa ... which I now use for my semi-annual "big cleaning". Learned about it a while back, and it literally "saved" a 300-WM barrel I'd given up on. I use it in accordance with the directions ... a couple of patches, a nylon brush (gently - 3 to 5 times), dry patches, clean with normal liquid bore cleaner ... and the barrels shoot great and look good on a bore-scope. A little goes a long way, and doing multiple iterations of this is a no-no ... but it works for me. I get it though ... the guys that clean "often" with it (or other abrasives), and who "scrub like crazy" ... are going to hurt their barrels - no doubt.

 

[Lawnboi]

I'm a little surprised nobody in this thread had mention Iossa ... which I now use for my semi-annual "big cleaning". Learned about it a while back, and it literally "saved" a 300-WM barrel I'd given up on. I use it in accordance with the directions ... a couple of patches, a nylon brush (gently - 3 to 5 times), dry patches, clean with normal liquid bore cleaner ... and the barrels shoot great and look good on a bore-scope. A little goes a long way, and doing multiple iterations of this is a no-no ... but it works for me. I get it though ... the guys that clean "often" with it (or other abrasives), and who "scrub like crazy" ... are going to hurt their barrels - no doubt.

It has been mentioned in other threads, by frank green as being more abrasive than preferred if I remember correctly.

Since this thread Iv got some jb bore paste but havnt felt the need to run it down quite yet.