PRS Talk Is it time to make a Major and Minor power catagory in Precision Rifle Comps?

[ElvisUSMC]

For Discussion:
With all the buzz about the .224 Valkyrie and the increasing trend of light recoiling rounds for the sake of "recoil management", is it time to make a separate power factor scoring, or a sub-category within the open category in Precision Rifle Comps? If you think it's a valid thought, should it be ftlbs of muzzle energy based or strictly caliber based (i.e. Minor .22-.243, Major .264-.300)?
This is without changing the Tactical category as it stands.
If you think this is a garbage idea, then let me know why.

 

[Rob01]

No need. There are enough rules as it is for gear.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

"Open" is open. The competitors will work it all out. If the smaller caliber and it's less felt recoil is such an advantage, they will all adopt it.

 

[308pirate]

More rules is almost never the right answer

 

[demolitionman]

It's not the arrow it's the Indian right? So No. No need for more rules.

 

[LawnMM]

No.

 

[308pirate]

The very first rule of effective rulemaking is clearly articulating what problem is it that you are trying to fix.

So, can you clearly articulate what problem are you trying to fix, and more importantly, why is that condition an actual problem?

 

[ElvisUSMC]

It was just a thought for discussion, I don't have any sway on the competitions. A bit of devil's advocate as well. I do agree, creating another rule isn't necessarily the solution, so my apologies for poorly wording the query. Decisions should be the domain of the match directors based off the over arching guidance of the Series rulebook, if associated.

I have had a further rant about free-recoil over 3x tacti-pillows with mouse-fart rounds doesn't equal marksmanship, but it wasn't very cohesive so I'm not going to bother.

Frank just said the .308 is dead.

 

[rookie7]

It was just a thought for discussion, I don't have any sway on the competitions. A bit of devil's advocate as well. I do agree, creating another rule isn't necessarily the solution, so my apologies for poorly wording the query. Decisions should be the domain of the match directors based off the over arching guidance of the Series rulebook, if associated.

I have had a further rant about free-recoil over 3x tacti-pillows with mouse-fart rounds doesn't equal marksmanship, but it wasn't very cohesive so I'm not going to bother.

Frank just said the .308 is dead.

More rules? No. However, I am interested in reading your rant you described in your last paragraph. Rant and ramble on. Let us hear it.

 

[308pirate]

Frank just said the .308 is dead.

Is the PRS Tactical Division not offered any more?

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

Frank just said the .308 is dead.

For gamers maybe.

 

[308pirate]

For gamers maybe.

PRS is a game. No one pretends otherwise.

 

[RyanM]

I find the "PRS isn't marksmanship due to too many support bags/tripods/tactical tables/arca swiss attachments" to be getting old.

I will admit that all of the advancement is part of the fun - I myself have tried a lot of gear - but at the end of the day you still need to have a good clean shot to make the hit. If you are out there practicing with your 10 pillows and can get them all set up to go through 4 positions and 10 rounds in 90 seconds that is great. More likely though is that you see the top shooters using a minimal amount of gear in an effective way to make those hits. A bipod and a bag are really all that is needed at the end of the day. All the gear in the world will not make you a better shooter.

It is a game though and it is fun.

 

[davere]

Just set your match up to not use hit indicators on any of the targets, and then use heavy targets. The guys running 80gr bullets distinctly run the risk of not getting hits called because they don't move the target visibly. The guys running Dasher (and to some degree, any 6mm) already have this problem.

In USPSA/IPSC, minor PF has a way of punishing the shooter when it comes to reactive, heavy targets. Hits that will topple a popper with major can just leave the target standing with minor, even though it was a solid hit.

 

[308pirate]

In USPSA/IPSC, minor PF has a way of punishing the shooter when it comes to reactive, heavy targets. Hits that will topple a popper with major can just leave the target standing with minor, even though it was a solid hit.

Except that poppers and other steel is supposed to fall to minor calibration loads.

Yeah getting popper fucked isn't fun but it's also not lost points as it would be in PRS.

 

[davere]

Except that poppers and other steel is supposed to fall to minor calibration loads.

... when struck above the calibration line. When properly calibrated, any hit lower than that won’t drop the popper with a minor load. I’ve watch major PF loads hit the bottom 3” of a popper and take it down, while properly calibrated poppers don’t always drop to minor PF ammo (due to various factors).

Yeah getting popper fucked isn't fun but it's also not lost points as it would be in PRS.

That’s only true if you see the bad hit (that is, you’re slow and watch the popper rock back and forth) and hammer the popper down. Can’t count how many times I’ve watched a shooter (shooting minor) call a hit on a popper and move on, only to have left that target standing. Hit was full diameter. Popper then passes calibration. Miss - which is more penal in IPSC than PRS (in PRS, you generally don’t lose points from a miss, you just don’t accumulate them).

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

No one pretends otherwise.

Some do.

 

[ElvisUSMC]

In regards to the .308 is dead comment, that came from Frank's most recent podcast. It was really in reference to the domination of the 6.5 Creedmoor in the market place and the advantages it has over the .308. He was also addressing the common misunderstanding of what is a good modern .308 load vs. the historical (i.e. Fed Gold Medal Match 168gr SMK).
I don't think Tactical division has gone anywhere, not should it, as long as those are the NATO service rounds. If you had to compete as a peer against 6mm's and 6.5mm you would be at a definite disadvantage. However, in Tactical Div I think it is fine as it is. If you want to compete with a .223 over a .308 then go ahead, you've got to have that load and dope down for shots past 600. You are trading off a lot of ballistic viability at range for recoil management (with standard bullet weights and load maps) for those calibers.
I think once we get to Open it isn't the same comparison.

 

[308pirate]

Some do.

If you say so...........

 

[rookie7]

In regards to the .308 is dead comment, that came from Frank's most recent podcast. It was really in reference to the domination of the 6.5 Creedmoor in the market place and the advantages it has over the .308. He was also addressing the common misunderstanding of what is a good modern .308 load vs. the historical (i.e. Fed Gold Medal Match 168gr SMK).
I don't think Tactical division has gone anywhere, not should it, as long as those are the NATO service rounds. If you had to compete as a peer against 6mm's and 6.5mm you would be at a definite disadvantage. However, in Tactical Div I think it is fine as it is. If you want to compete with a .223 over a .308 then go ahead, you've got to have that load and dope down for shots past 600. You are trading off a lot of ballistic viability at range for recoil management (with standard bullet weights and load maps) for those calibers.
I think once we get to Open it isn't the same comparison.

If you are replying to my comment I wasn't referring to the 308 is dead comment. I was referring to your rant about multiple bags and "mouse fart" cartridges used in PRS comps. Paragraph, not sentence.

 

[ElvisUSMC]

rookie7, sorry I was not responding to you, not sure how you got there from my response. I think RyanM had a good thought about gear and Davere is addressing the caliber piece.
I'm still in the process of formulating my rant into something more thought out, I'll get there.

 

[lte82]

Yes, what we need is more divisions or categories. Rifle categories of <12lb, 12-16lb, 16+ lb, and then split that into tactical or open, and then again by major or minor caliber, major and minor speed, and then again by rifle cost, and then by shooter rankings like they do in NRA highpower, and maybe a "lite" category that only gets one bipod and one bag, or maybe a medium lite that can use 2 or more bags, and then a open gear category that can use tripods off of barricades. So you might be the winner of the 12-16lb open minor major pro medium lite gear category, and then you have to use an offset factor to compare your score to the guy that was one shot down, but was in the 12lb open minor major expert open gear category so it's apples to apples. Maybe even divide it by age group or height, because some barricades are too tall for some and shorter guys have a lower center of gravity for the short barricades. By my math, we would need at least 192 categories to keep it fair at minimum. I think more people would definitely want to shoot if we did it this way.

 

[PistoleroJesse]

Add a provisional division for hunting rifle. Predicated on a max weight limit and minimum energy delivery at 500 yards.

If its popular sanctify. If not, drop it.


USPSA, 3GN, IDPA have all done this kind of thing from time to time.

 

[lte82]

"grandpas deer rifle" category would be sweet. 270 or 30-06 only.

 

[PistoleroJesse]

"grandpas deer rifle" category would be sweet. 270 or 30-06 only.

More or less.
There is a reason some people shoot single stack or he-man divisions.
You'd honestly expect PRS would escape it?

 

[lte82]

More or less.
There is a reason some people shoot single stack or he-man divisions.
You'd honestly expect PRS would escape it?

Escape creating categories for the purpose of handing out more participation trophies? I would hope so. I can see if a bunch of lever action 30-30 guys showed up it would be nice to keep them all in one squad. Other than that I don't see the point.

 

[arm017]

Yeah- i think less rules the better.

 

[PistoleroJesse]

Don't get me wrong, I don't like it either.
But the market will likely support it given its consistent theme in other shooting sports...

 

[Rob01]

Just because others do it doesn't make it right. Like mom used to say, "just because your friend jumps off a bridge does that mean you will too?"

 

[RyanM]

I think the thing that is special about PRS is that there are less rules and the match directors can use their creativity to make things challenging for anybody. With the implementation of the hit indicators it is true that the small calibers are getting credit for their hits (which they should be) but you know what they are not getting? A good splash indicator when they miss. I was out with my 223 trainer a week ago (in Canada in -17C and blowing snow so it was already tough conditions) but once I got past 300M spotting those misses was tough. Despite the heavier recoil of my 308 it would have been easier to see when I missed.

Highpower/F-Class/BR is all paper and they can easily see their misses to adjust - PRS no so much some days.

Leave the rule book alone - effective & creative stage/match design can level the playing field quite well.

Also, IMO, the guys who come to shoot as a team and have a sacrificial wind call shooter are way more of a gamer than a guy who uses all the doodads available.

 

[rookie7]

There is a lot of tongue in cheek comments about adding rules and categories. I think most will agree that the comps are fine as is.

If you want to buy the gear - buy it. If you don't - don't. It's that simple.

Leave it up to the match directors to limit said gear.

In regards to this topic all we have to do is listen to our history - "the government that governs least governs best". (paraphrased)

 

[davere]

Having shot for many years under USPSA/IPSC rules, and watching USPSA change from one, to two, to now, what, 7 divisions (?) with 6 classifications in each, and 7 or 8 special categories, with major and minor PF scoring integrated as part of the scoring system, I gotta say that in my opinion, going down that road would be severely lame. One of the biggest negatives to USPSA is the fact that the scoring system - while totally understandable in the grand scheme of things - can't easily be followed by anyone that's not running around with a spreadsheet, and sometimes no one can tell who's truly winning until the whole thing is done. Honestly, it's kind of ridiculous.

Some things make sense. Lowering the price point to play (a production style division) is super effective for a number of reasons, for instance. Keep the scoring system SIMPLE. Stick with as few divisions, classifications, and categories as humanly possible and resist the urge to grow things for any purpose resembling "inclusivity" or "fairness" (because that's how you get participation trophies).

Power factor immediately complicates scoring, and you suddenly need a computer to keep track of things, and you need to chronograph all the competitors and weigh their bullets to determine what power factor they're at (whether you're measuring energy or momentum, you still need velocity and bullet weight). All you actually gain is an artificial sense of levelling the playing field against lower recoiling calibers by arbitrarily saying that some score differently than others. And then you need to set up matches so that you can realize power factor scoring, which means.... what, paper targets? You're kidding, right?

Matches that run a tactical division are free to specify what calibers can be shot in that division. You want to keep out .224 Valkyrie from that division, great, say it's 7.62x51/.308 Winchester and 5.56x45/.223 Remington only. Whatever. PRS's Tactical divisions already do this. You want to make sure that Production division remains in the spirit of Production (and not have someone, say, build 6mm Dasher Production guns), great, say that Production division guns can only be chambered in "off the shelf" calibers, and define what those are clearly. If you're in Open, boo-fucking-hoo. Run what you brought, or rechamber it to what you want. You're in Open, so wear your big girl panties.

Fix the problem via match design. Want to penalize lighter, slower calibers at your match? Great. Run heavy steel at 1k or beyond, where ballistics for those calibers get dodgy. Want to favor lighter, lower recoiling calibers? Great. Run shorter ranges matches that require very unstable positions on every stage, and use target flashers or the like.

Doesn't matter what you do. The best shooters will always win, regardless of how you set the rules.

 

[alpine44]

Having shot for many years under USPSA/IPSC rules, and watching USPSA change from one, to two, to now, what, 7 divisions (?) with 6 classifications in each, and 7 or 8 special categories, with major and minor PF scoring integrated as part of the scoring system, I gotta say that in my opinion, going down that road would be severely lame. One of the biggest negatives to USPSA is the fact that the scoring system - while totally understandable in the grand scheme of things - can't easily be followed by anyone that's not running around with a spreadsheet, and sometimes no one can tell who's truly winning until the whole thing is done. Honestly, it's kind of ridiculous.

Some things make sense. Lowering the price point to play (a production style division) is super effective for a number of reasons, for instance. Keep the scoring system SIMPLE. Stick with as few divisions, classifications, and categories as humanly possible and resist the urge to grow things for any purpose resembling "inclusivity" or "fairness" (because that's how you get participation trophies).

Power factor immediately complicates scoring, and you suddenly need a computer to keep track of things, and you need to chronograph all the competitors and weigh their bullets to determine what power factor they're at (whether you're measuring energy or momentum, you still need velocity and bullet weight). All you actually gain is an artificial sense of levelling the playing field against lower recoiling calibers by arbitrarily saying that some score differently than others. And then you need to set up matches so that you can realize power factor scoring, which means.... what, paper targets? You're kidding, right?

Matches that run a tactical division are free to specify what calibers can be shot in that division. You want to keep out .224 Valkyrie from that division, great, say it's 7.62x51/.308 Winchester and 5.56x45/.223 Remington only. Whatever. PRS's Tactical divisions already do this. You want to make sure that Production division remains in the spirit of Production (and not have someone, say, build 6mm Dasher Production guns), great, say that Production division guns can only be chambered in "off the shelf" calibers, and define what those are clearly. If you're in Open, boo-fucking-hoo. Run what you brought, or rechamber it to what you want. You're in Open, so wear your big girl panties.

Fix the problem via match design. Want to penalize lighter, slower calibers at your match? Great. Run heavy steel at 1k or beyond, where ballistics for those calibers get dodgy. Want to favor lighter, lower recoiling calibers? Great. Run shorter ranges matches that require very unstable positions on every stage, and use target flashers or the like.

Doesn't matter what you do. The best shooters will always win, regardless of how you set the rules.

The best shooters will -and should- win due to their skills regardless of the amount of gear required. They don't need to worry where the hardware comes from - their sponsors will.

I do not know what the founders of the PRS had in mind but today PRS competitions look like a marketing event, thinly veiled as a competition, with only one purpose, to sell boat loads of new stuff. Even the top-shooters have to constantly upgrade because someone constantly finds another way to "game" the game.

What makes attending a PRS event unattractive to me is that I have already more than enough gun stuff to get any practical job done. I do not need to spend another 10k on more crap that is useless in any other context. Hunting with a 20 pound musket-length "rifle" chambered in 6mm Mousefart while dragging a pillow behind me through the leaves? I don't think so.

In contrast, I can grab any of my AR's, put an extension tube under my Beretta's turkey barrel, grab any of my pistols with iron sights and compete in a 3Gun match (Tac Iron or Tac Optics) while focusing on improving my skills and not having to worry what the caliber of the year is or whether my pillows are -to use a phrase from the PRS site- "What the Pros use".

Like USPSA Open or F-class, PRS is IMO not about "practical" shooting. It is simply another venue for gear whores to part with their disposable income. The great skills of the top shooters in all these disciplined do not change that fact.

 

[RyanM]

The best shooters will -and should- win due to their skills regardless of the amount of gear required. They don't need to worry where the hardware comes from - their sponsors will.

I do not know what the founders of the PRS had in mind but today a PRS competitions look like a marketing event, thinly veiled as a competition, with only one purpose, to sell boat loads of new stuff. Even the top-shooters have to constantly upgrade because someone constantly finds another way to "game" the game.

What makes attending a PRS event unattractive to me is that I have already more than enough gun stuff to get any practical job done. I do not need to spend another 10k on more crap that is useless in any other context. Hunting with 20 pound musket-length "rifle" chambered in 6mm Mousefart while dragging a pillow behind me through the leaves? I don't think so.

In contrast, I can grab any of my AR's, put an extension tube under my Beretta's turkey barrel, grab any of my pistols with iron sights and compete in a 3Gun match while focusing on improving my skills and not having to worry what the caliber of the year is or whether my pillows are-to use a phrase from the PRS site- "what the pros use".

Gun guys love gear - it is what it is but I think your statement is untrue. Grab any decently accurate gun (.75MOA and under will be great but I would think a 1 MOA gun would get the job done too) and something that you can comfortably shoot stock/chassis wise and you are good to go.

Ya, there is lots of high end gear but that is the way it goes. Matt B. who was the PRS champion in 2017 was running a set up that was pretty much brand new to him at the finale and he took home 2nd. For sure it was all high end gear but he won because he is sending 10,000+ rounds down range a year. The guy who won the finale this year was shooting a 6.5X47 - not a 300WM but not a "mousefart".

Once you throw on a decent barrel and better trigger all custom guns, for all intents and purposes, are the same at a PRS match.

As cliche as it sounds it is the indian not the arrow (sorry I am in Canada, is it first nations? aboriginal? Wait! maybe it is peoplekind, I digress....)

 

[morganlamprecht]

The best shooters will -and should- win due to their skills regardless of the amount of gear required. They don't need to worry where the hardware comes from - their sponsors will.

I do not know what the founders of the PRS had in mind but today a PRS competitions look like a marketing event, thinly veiled as a competition, with only one purpose, to sell boat loads of new stuff. Even the top-shooters have to constantly upgrade because someone constantly finds another way to "game" the game.

What makes attending a PRS event unattractive to me is that I have already more than enough gun stuff to get any practical job done. I do not need to spend another 10k on more crap that is useless in any other context. Hunting with 20 pound musket-length "rifle" chambered in 6mm Mousefart while dragging a pillow behind me through the leaves? I don't think so.

In contrast, I can grab any of my AR's, put an extension tube under my Beretta's turkey barrel, grab any of my pistols with iron sights and compete in a 3Gun match while focusing on improving my skills and not having to worry what the caliber of the year is or whether my pillows are -to use a phrase from the PRS site- "What the Pros use".

all you need to compete is a reliable 1moa mag fed rifle, a scope with turrets or a hold over reticle, and a rear bag.....the rest of your post is just excuses

 

[morganlamprecht]

i think part of the problem with divisions is it would water down the competition a bit (idk if thats the right way to explain it)...but like now, most of the matches i went to last year the tac division had maybe 5-10 shooters and the production maybe 1-5...kinda seems like with more divisions it would make that even worse, you show up to a match...maybe you win your division? because you were the only shooter in it, but finish last overall? do you get a trophy or pat on the back because you were the only one shooting that division? ive only shot smaller local pistol matches with no prizes or anything so idk, not sure how that would work out at bigger matches

 

[davere]

What makes attending a PRS event unattractive to me is that I have already more than enough gun stuff to get any practical job done.
...
In contrast, I can grab any of my AR's, put an extension tube under my Beretta's turkey barrel, grab any of my pistols with iron sights and compete in a 3Gun match (Tac Iron or Tac Optics) while focusing on improving my skills and not having to worry what the caliber of the year is or whether my pillows are -to use a phrase from the PRS site- "What the Pros use".

Morgan already said it, but this is just an excuse. Go watch David Preston shoot. Consistently a top shooter. Shoots a 6.5x47 (but could easily be, say, 6.5 Creedmoor shooting factory ammo), and one bag.

Using the term "practical job" and talking about what it takes to shoot 3-gun in the same post is the definition of irony.

And, frankly, if you're going to talk about how things appear from the outside (without ever having attended a match), you can't just go compete in 3-gun with any ol' off the shelf AR, shotty, and handgun. Hell, internally, you know you can't do that either, really, and be competitive. The shotgun needs a fuckload of work both to run, and to be fed efficiently (since shotgun - especially non-Open-division shotgun - is a reloading game, not a shooting game). The rifle is closest to off the shelf, but you still need a good trigger, appropriate optics (if an optics division). Handgun will need sights, trigger work, etc. And you need to feed and practice with all three. God forbid you want to shoot Open division, and realize you need $15k worth of firearms before you even start.

You can potentially shoot a PRS match with less than $1-2k worth of gear. Because of the cost of optics, it's never going to be stupid cheap.

 

[davere]

i think part of the problem with divisions is it would water down the competition a bit

It may. It will also give rise to people trying to "hide" from competition and win a less popular division. Happens all the time at big USPSA matches where the match includes all possible divisions.

 

[morganlamprecht]

It may. It will also give rise to people trying to "hide" from competition and win a less popular division. Happens all the time at big USPSA matches where the match includes all possible divisions.

yea idk how this would be solved because i already see there being some division on how the tac vs open should be handled

tac guy thinks he should get recognized as 1st before 2nd place in open...open guy says tac guy shouldnt be recognized until his actual finish because maybe he was 50th overall...it just seems like a mess as far as prize tables are concerned...if we completely removed prize tables, i think it would make things way less complicated, but im not sure how many people would keep showing up...lots would, but i know plenty that wouldnt

 

[RyanM]

yea idk how this would be solved because i already see there being some division on how the tac vs open should be handled

tac guy thinks he should get recognized as 1st before 2nd place in open...open guy says tac guy shouldnt be recognized until his actual finish because maybe he was 50th overall...it just seems like a mess as far as prize tables are concerned...if we completely removed prize tables, i think it would make things way less complicated, but im not sure how many people would keep showing up...lots would, but i know plenty that wouldnt

Make prize tables by random draw - it handles a couple issues and I think you end up having a bit more civil of a match.

 

[davere]

yea idk how this would be solved because i already see there being some division on how the tac vs open should be handled

Best way to figure that out is leave it up to the match. People will vote with their feet, and the preferable format(s) will emerge and survive. USPSA doesn't recognize overall results - only results within division. But, prize tables are up to the match. Mostly, they're done by division, with the "loot" split up based on participation in the division. Some matches do things a little bit differently from that, depending, with the other popular formats looking like - some award/prize for the top few in the division, and the rest of the prizes by raffle - others are raffle only, or whatever, but the predominant format is prize table per division; some give stuff to the ROs separately, too.

Personally, I don't care how a match does prize table - just be clear about it up front, and don't change it mid-stream.

 

[morganlamprecht]

Make prize tables by random draw - it handles a couple issues and I think you end up having a bit more civil of a match.

have you been at a match that did this yet? i AGREE with you, but it did not sit well with most of the competitors...most acted professionally but behind the scenes they were not happy about it

 

[RyanM]

have you been at a match that did this yet? i AGREE with you, but it did not sit well with most of the competitors...most acted professionally but behind the scenes they were not happy about it

I do this at the matches that I run. They are not the high dollar blow outs that you guys have south of the border but we gave out a couple actions and barrels, chassis, etc. (my guess about a 10K prize table) by random draw. We also included all of the volunteers that came out.

This year we are planning on doing trophies for 1st to 3rd place and then everyone goes into the pot.

I did have a couple people complain (also about match pricing - don't get me started) but if they don't want to shoot then don't come. The market in Canada is different though and we have way fewer options available to us. At the same time I know the other MDs that run matches in Western Canada personally and we all run our matches this way.

 

[morganlamprecht]

i get what you guys are saying, i agree...i dont shoot matches for the prize tables...i try to go the matches that look like a good time and fit in when i feel like shooting/traveling...but as a whole, the shooters will have to change their prospective of things for it to not cause a pretty big rift at first...maybe it would just be a rough transition period, then smooth after that

 

[Gooldylocks]

have you been at a match that did this yet? i AGREE with you, but it did not sit well with most of the competitors...most acted professionally but behind the scenes they were not happy about it

Lots of USPSA matches are run this way, and it is fine. The match should be about the shooting, not about walking the table to get a box of bullets or a new chassis.

 

[308pirate]

It will also give rise to people trying to "hide" from competition and win a less popular division. Happens all the time at big USPSA matches where the match includes all possible divisions.

While that may be true, I don't get why it upsets some people so much.

Q: Someone wins a less populated/popular division. How does that affect those who do not play in that division?
A: It doesn't

 

[morganlamprecht]

I do this at the matches that I run. They are not the high dollar blow outs that you guys have south of the border but we gave out a couple actions and barrels, chassis, etc. (my guess about a 10K prize table) by random draw. We also included all of the volunteers that came out.

This year we are planning on doing trophies for 1st to 3rd place and then everyone goes into the pot.

i like this, the thing i want to take home more than anything at a match is the trophy with the #1 on it lol

 

[morganlamprecht]

Lots of USPSA matches are run this way, and it is fine. The match should be about the shooting, not about walking the table to get a box of bullets or a new chassis.

youre right, it SHOULD be....but how things should be, isnt always how things are...prs shooters are used to how things are now, changing that might not be a smooth transition

 

[Gooldylocks]

While that may be true, I don't get why it upsets some people so much.

Q: Someone wins a less populated/popular division. How does that affect those who do not play in that division?
A: It doesn't

It does, because people that like to measure their skill against more people feel the more spread out the heat is, the less of a good measuring stick it is; i.e "watering down" the level of competition.

 

[davere]

While that may be true, I don't get why it upsets some people so much.

Because people hiding from competition are pussies?