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Kestrel Meters Ballistics Official Thread
- Thread starter Kestrel Ballistics
- Start date
Anticipating arrival (on Oct 18th) of the Kestrel 5700 Elite with Applied Ballistics/Link.
A MagnetoSpeed Sporter model (barrel-mounted chronograph measuring true muzzle velocity for various ammo tested) will complete the needed measurements for the Kestrel to enhance the shooting experience. More later...after testing and some backpacking with the rifle.
A MagnetoSpeed Sporter model (barrel-mounted chronograph measuring true muzzle velocity for various ammo tested) will complete the needed measurements for the Kestrel to enhance the shooting experience. More later...after testing and some backpacking with the rifle.
I really think this setup. I have the wind vane setup but it likes to shut off at times so just watch that
That is a setting in the Kestrel. Try changing it to a longer time or you can disable that. Just remember if you do disable it, it will run until the battery dies.
The setup for 22LR is no different than any other setup. But we have started integrating CDMs for some rimfire ammo. Currently their are 2 bullets in the library. However, all you need to do is setup the caliber as 0.224, use G1, and the rest is straight forward. The BCs for about 90 rimfire bullets is in the Ballistic Performance of Rifle Bullets 2nd edition, and in Modern Advancements Vol 2.
Thanks for your insights on setup, Squat and DocUSMCRetired!
The 5700 Elite with Applied Ballistics/Link just arrived. The evening is booked with work prep for tomorrow....so immense will-power must be summoned to resist loading the battery and starting the setup/data entry.
If the weekend allows for testing the precise muzzle velocity, the rest of the data will be simple. As advised by you, I'll carefully consider settings to preserve battery function as well as great shooting insights.
Interestingly, the model does not say "Applied Ballistics" as shown elsewhere...but shows "Elite Ballistics." Hmmmm, go figure???
The 5700 Elite with Applied Ballistics/Link just arrived. The evening is booked with work prep for tomorrow....so immense will-power must be summoned to resist loading the battery and starting the setup/data entry.
If the weekend allows for testing the precise muzzle velocity, the rest of the data will be simple. As advised by you, I'll carefully consider settings to preserve battery function as well as great shooting insights.
Interestingly, the model does not say "Applied Ballistics" as shown elsewhere...but shows "Elite Ballistics." Hmmmm, go figure???
Attachments
That's just the newest branding/labelling, so rest assured you have the newest model.
So I just got my kestrel 5700 elite and watched about 3 hours of utube videos figuring out how to operate the meter. My plan was to true my MV and DSF as described in the videos this weekend. Now I hear frank who's obviously more seasoned with the meter than I saying to tweek the BC and MV. Makes sense knowing that BCs change with velocity and I'm using a G1 number currently which is not a good representative of the actual torjectory. Was also going to try my best to down load the custom drag curves for my 142 smk and 168smk. I did find them on AB library so I know they're there. Accurate subsonic holds is what I'm after
What's the best way to go about truing all my data?
What's the best way to go about truing all my data?
Since you have a Kestrel, I wouldn't mess with BC. Those numbers can give you a general idea of performance vs another bullet (sometimes). Something to note, a BC is a snap shot of the bullets drag at a specific velocity. So lets go with a simple example.
The Hornady 168gr Amax Has a G1 BC Variation of 0.127. At 3000 fps it starts off at a G1 of 0.518 and into subsonic it drops to 0.391. The average G1 for this bullet is 0.454 G1. So if one shooter says "well I changed the BC to 0.483 and that works for me" and another shooter says "well I changed the BC to 0.454 and that works for me" then technically both are correct. Because at some point during the bullets flight that is its BC and where the shooter is using the bullet for their intended purposes it might just work. However those same BC numbers might not work for someone else, due to their intended purpose. Now, picking the correct form factor can in some cases help fix this. For instance, that same bullet has a G7 BC Variation of 0.026. It has a BC of 0.245 above 3000 fps and 0.219 below 1500 fps. So one shooter might say "I use the BC of 0.230" and another might say "I use the BC of 0.222" and both are technically correct. Because at some point during that bullets flight It does have that BC. Maybe you have a shooter using subsonic loads, in which case the G7 BC for this bullet will never be above 0.222. So the shooter will greatly benefit from using that. However it is best to use the Averaged BC when possible, and some bullets fall between a G1 and G7. So which form factor do you pick?
Well the easiest way to handle this is to do away with a BC completely. When you use a BC you are basically saying "well my bullet performs by this much % of the standard I have chosen, so try to make its drag fit". But you are taking one bullet design and drag model, and taking a completely different bullet and using a multiplier to alter the curve. Instead of trying to make one bullet fit the flight model of another bullet, you can just use a CDM and DSF. A CDM means you are basically using the flight model (measured in our laboratory) instead of trying to force something to fit. That doesn't mean a Gmodel+BC won't work for a lot of shooters. It just means their are more accurate ways of doing it, and in today's age of technology we have no reason not to. We can use an abacus to do some pretty complex addition and division. But why when we can just our cell phone?
You can adjust the CDM as needed by using a DSF. Instead of adjusting the entire model (which is what you are doing when change the BC) you can adjust only the area you need to. Up to 6 zones. It will tie that adjustment to a Mach number which means the calibration will travel properly with atmospheric changes.
Hello, try to check in Kestrel folowing: gun-MV-MV temp. If you have filled for what temp you have muzzle velocity table. Normaly after FW update is this default OFF. Maybe it helps.
Not sure if this is the place for this question but figured I would ask.
Do you have a list of bullets that AB is testing that will be added in the future.
The new 30cal 230gr SMK is not available in the app but it’s been out for quite some time now. I have a build almost done so I’d love to get the CC for this bullet in my Kestrel.
Do you have a list of bullets that AB is testing that will be added in the future.
The new 30cal 230gr SMK is not available in the app but it’s been out for quite some time now. I have a build almost done so I’d love to get the CC for this bullet in my Kestrel.
Hey all,
I just purchased one of the 5700 Sportsman units and it still has the old v1.02 firmware that includes the Applied Ballistics G1/G7 solver onboard. My understanding is that if we upgrade the firmware to the most current v1.2x firmware to turn the unit into a 5700 Ballistic (non Elite), it will switch the onboard G1/G7 solver to Kestrel Ballistics (not AB) unless you upgrade to the Elite firmware (+$190)?
Is there any downside for non-ELR shooting to accept this update and replace/lose the older AB solver that was onboard? Say, inside 1000y shooting.
I sent an inquiry to Kestrel about this, but I figured folks here might also know if there is any practical advantage or disadvantage to moving to the 5700 firmware (not Elite). I know the new firmware adds "Easy Mode" but I'm not convinced that's totally needed. Would be nice to see some patch notes for the various firmware versions.
As an aside, I do have a paid version of Applied Ballistics on my smartphone, so I have that option available already.
Thanks!
I just purchased one of the 5700 Sportsman units and it still has the old v1.02 firmware that includes the Applied Ballistics G1/G7 solver onboard. My understanding is that if we upgrade the firmware to the most current v1.2x firmware to turn the unit into a 5700 Ballistic (non Elite), it will switch the onboard G1/G7 solver to Kestrel Ballistics (not AB) unless you upgrade to the Elite firmware (+$190)?
Is there any downside for non-ELR shooting to accept this update and replace/lose the older AB solver that was onboard? Say, inside 1000y shooting.
I sent an inquiry to Kestrel about this, but I figured folks here might also know if there is any practical advantage or disadvantage to moving to the 5700 firmware (not Elite). I know the new firmware adds "Easy Mode" but I'm not convinced that's totally needed. Would be nice to see some patch notes for the various firmware versions.
As an aside, I do have a paid version of Applied Ballistics on my smartphone, so I have that option available already.
Thanks!
You should upgrade the firmware. The 5700 uses the AB solver but does not include some of the features found in the Elite. See here for the difference:
https://kestrelmeters.com/pages/kestrel-meters-ballistics-compare-chart-1
https://kestrelmeters.com/pages/kestrel-meters-ballistics-compare-chart-1
Great, thanks. Got the email reply as well... sounds like there isn't any reason to hold off on the firmware update. For anyone else interested in the matrix of patch notes, this is probably worth sharing. Please remove if this isn't meant for general circulation.
https://kestrelinstruments.com/mwdownloads/download/link/id/40/
Thanks for the quick reply turnaround. Happy Thanksgiving!
https://kestrelinstruments.com/mwdownloads/download/link/id/40/
Thanks for the quick reply turnaround. Happy Thanksgiving!
I searched high and low to find info about my issue with the Kestrel 5700 with AB.
I was out hunting for the last 4 days in New Mexico for elk. I'm sitting at the airport as I type this to return home. I had a nice 6x6 bull elk out to 600 yards from me, I pull out my new Kestrel 5700 with AB and get it all set up for a shot. I have my rifle mounted to my tripod, I'm using a muzzleloader, I dial my scope to the 35 MOA's it tells me to dial. I shoot! it hits high over the elk... I reload, by then it is out of killing range for my muzzleloader.
I was not happy. I scratch my head and think what the hell happened. I pull out my phone and use the Kestrel 5700 to link in the atmosphere data, I hit trajectory and I get a totally different dope to dial... almost a whole 3 MOA difference!
I drive to the local range and go and verify which one is right. I use my AB and Trasol. My phone was off by .75 MOA all the way out to 600 yards, while my Kestrel 5700 AB was off over 2 MOA for each range.
What the heck is going on? all the same data is going into the Kestrel as my AB on the phone. even the Muzzle velocity with the temp because of the blackpowder.
What am I doing wrong? My AB on my phone needs just a little tweaking, I think it's the BC personally since I have really good velocity data using my Labradar for every shot out of this rig.
In the end, no elk, major bummer!
I was out hunting for the last 4 days in New Mexico for elk. I'm sitting at the airport as I type this to return home. I had a nice 6x6 bull elk out to 600 yards from me, I pull out my new Kestrel 5700 with AB and get it all set up for a shot. I have my rifle mounted to my tripod, I'm using a muzzleloader, I dial my scope to the 35 MOA's it tells me to dial. I shoot! it hits high over the elk... I reload, by then it is out of killing range for my muzzleloader.
I was not happy. I scratch my head and think what the hell happened. I pull out my phone and use the Kestrel 5700 to link in the atmosphere data, I hit trajectory and I get a totally different dope to dial... almost a whole 3 MOA difference!
I drive to the local range and go and verify which one is right. I use my AB and Trasol. My phone was off by .75 MOA all the way out to 600 yards, while my Kestrel 5700 AB was off over 2 MOA for each range.
What the heck is going on? all the same data is going into the Kestrel as my AB on the phone. even the Muzzle velocity with the temp because of the blackpowder.
What am I doing wrong? My AB on my phone needs just a little tweaking, I think it's the BC personally since I have really good velocity data using my Labradar for every shot out of this rig.
In the end, no elk, major bummer!
Check these menus: Environment - Lock, Bluetooth - off, Data Port-Off, Memory Options/ Auto Store - off, turn them on as needed.
I use my Bluetooth for my phone and/or range finder so i can't turn it off per se. I locked the environment and the data port was already off. I put a
battery in yesterday and today it's down to 35%. I'm thinking i should revert to a earlier firmware version?
Did you check the memory options? Even when off the Kestrel will sample and store environment data at the rate of every 2 seconds if Auto Store is left on, that usually is the issue with battery drain.
I was at the range when i was prompted for the upgrade and i selected yes without putting much thought into it. I need to read through the firmware release notes. I didn't realize this was such a major update. Thanks for your help so far...
Kestrel 5700 AB (Version 1.23) w/Link Battery Issues as well.
Put a new Engergizer Ultimate Lithium in 5 days ago with the Kestrel only operating for about an hour. Turned it on today and it showed 43%. Just dropped from 43% to 33% as I am typing this message.
Put a new Engergizer Ultimate Lithium in 5 days ago with the Kestrel only operating for about an hour. Turned it on today and it showed 43%. Just dropped from 43% to 33% as I am typing this message.
Custom curves are included in the Kestrel Elite, you can download them to the Kestrel from you device using the Kestrel ballistic app if you have a Link model or by using the AB Profile loader for non-Link models.
The software you use will usually identify which pressure it want to know. If using a Kestrel, there is no choice, the Kestrel measures and uses station pressure - the atmospheric pressure where you are standing. You do not make entries for that.
I always just us SP. I really dont undertsand why we even use barometric pressure. It seems so flawed.
My 4500ab now will only use target A as oppossed to the 5 total i had previously. Is there a fix?
Help! Upgraded my iPhone X iOS (no longer a choice, it just upgrades) and now my Kestrel app can no longer find 5700 LINK device??
Try this, connect Kestrel to Kestrel link app (not the Kestrel Ballistics app, you may need to download if not on your phone) , and rename the kestrel and then close the Link app (be sure to close it and break the connection with the Kestrel). Then try the ballistics app again. Please post your results.
Spin Drift has an on/off.
For Corilois set your Latitude to 0 and set your firing direction to 1 degree.
Sir:
I downloaded the Kestrel app and was able to connect to my 5700, but when it instructs me to rename my device, I enter a different name and I hit submit, it takes me to Kestrel registration. I am already a registered user. It gives me a choice to "skip" or be "done". Either choice just sends me back to "rename device" -- an infinite loop!
I downloaded the Kestrel app and was able to connect to my 5700, but when it instructs me to rename my device, I enter a different name and I hit submit, it takes me to Kestrel registration. I am already a registered user. It gives me a choice to "skip" or be "done". Either choice just sends me back to "rename device" -- an infinite loop!
Sorry about all of this. Please try this: try a soft reboot of kestrel, take battery out and hold down the power key for 30 seconds. Then put the battery back in and see if it will connect with the Kestrel Ballistics App. You will need to calibrate the compass before shooting again, but hopefully the new name will register with the ballistic app. Again, let me know the results.
Also, you say your iPhone X operating system upgraded and that was the beginning of this problem?
Also, you say your iPhone X operating system upgraded and that was the beginning of this problem?
make the ability to calibrate your scope tracking DOC from applied ballistics says it's already in the engine buy you guys have to activate it. ACTIVATE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Buying a 700 dollar product that’s incomplete... that’s fucked up kestrel
Buying a 700 dollar product that’s incomplete... that’s fucked up kestrel
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From the Applied Ballistic web site: http://appliedballisticsllc.com/support/online-user-guides/kestrel-link-ballistics-online-guide/
8. Ballistic Calibration – Sometimes it’s not possible to accurately determine all the variables required to calculate an exact ballistic solution. As a result, the Point Of Impact (POI) predicted by the program can be a little different from where the actual bullet hits in the real world. One of the more powerful features of the Kestrel Device is the Drop Scale Factor (DSF). A user can calibrate the program based on real world observed drop data at range by inputting pairs of observed range/drop data. This is also how you correct for scope turret errors. While it may seem simple, behind the scenes complex calculations are doing more than just adjusting muzzle velocity. The trajectory is being trued. DSF is only available on the K5700 Elite Model.
8. Ballistic Calibration – Sometimes it’s not possible to accurately determine all the variables required to calculate an exact ballistic solution. As a result, the Point Of Impact (POI) predicted by the program can be a little different from where the actual bullet hits in the real world. One of the more powerful features of the Kestrel Device is the Drop Scale Factor (DSF). A user can calibrate the program based on real world observed drop data at range by inputting pairs of observed range/drop data. This is also how you correct for scope turret errors. While it may seem simple, behind the scenes complex calculations are doing more than just adjusting muzzle velocity. The trajectory is being trued. DSF is only available on the K5700 Elite Model.
I re checked all my inputs and they are the same, but I get two different numbers for what to dial... I will play with it some more.. I think I will use my old kestrel with my phone and call it good
These corrections with DSF have to be done at subsonic though right? I thought for inside supersonic, one was supposed to used the Muzzle velocity calibration feature? Am I wrong on this @DocUSMCRetired ?
Thanks!
Is this in response to scope tracking calibration? DSF is completely different than telling the ballistic engine that a scope only tracks, say, 98% true as opposed to 100%. Scopes don’t always track 100%. Especially budget scopes.
Scope calibration or as AB calls it is elevation or wind correction factor should be unlocked. We paid for their ballistic engine and we should get what we paid for.
We have others interested in Scope Calibration and plan to incorporate it into the Kestrel. There are programming resources required and the release date is open at this time.
