M40 Build Guide

[mjh30]

Mescabug, with regards to some of the details on the stock sold on Ebay. On the original M40's, the rear swivel was a wood screw type (obviously Remington in house like the 513T) but the front swivel was threaded into an escutcheon as shown in your picture, which would be correct for the M40. Also the stocks had a 1/8 brass reinforcing pin in the trigger area, also shown in your pictures. It seems not all had this pin by some of the pictures I have seen over the years, but many did. Another option for a stock is the late Michael Kokolus company, Gun Stock Duplicating which is still in business. Apparently Mike had an original stock in hand to copy, they might be worth contacting as an alternative.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Fucking Marines during Vietnam rubbed oil into their stocks (even the M16 ). Their food was oily as well. I know this because my brother came home straight from Vietnam and bought me my first rifle. It was an Ithaca single shot lever action .22 ("You'll shoot your eye out!"). It had a top coat of varnish and he had me rubbing gun oil on that until I was almost crying. The M40 clone just needs a dull oil finish. I actually have an email from Remington custom shop stating to just use Pledge on the damn thing. Once in a while I can see it is drying out a little. So, as I was taught, I rub gun oil into it. As I've used it over the years it has it own unique set of dings on it now.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

The M40 SSA also has the escutcheon for threading the front swivel.

 

[Bolt_Trash]

Silver Hill M40... 166601 & Silver Hill- Buttstock fit-up/side profile

... My 16601 butt plate is 5.025 inch long and width is 1.586 in the middle of the buttplate. Can you measure the area of the butstock? I like to have an idea of how much work has to be done? Thx in advance

Where were we? Oh yeah... Here's a couple of representative 'side profile' photos of my 16601/-2- buttplate with a Silver Hill M40 stock. My 'old-timey' dial caliper is too small to measure the respective lengths of the buttplate and stock.

Some spec's first: "My" 16601 is ~1.640" at the widest point. "This" Silver Hill buttstock is 1.655" at the widest point. +/~0.015" Disclaimer: Other's mileage may vary. Overall, most deviations, in width, I found along the long axis of the buttstock were ~.010"

If I were undertaking this task, I (think) I would fit the buttplate at the top and maintain the lines at the comb and work my way down towards the mid-section to the toe. Cleaning-up the extra wood along the line extending from the toe of the fitted buttplate, should help accentuate the grip profile.

What say the pros... ??

Patience and some inletting black/or lamp soot should get the job done. The basic carpentry rule applies- you can't add wood back, if you've cut-off/removed too much.

 

[Bolt_Trash]

... The only 'un-verified' detail, is the anchor for the front swivel. History says the front swivel was a screw-in type swivels like the Rem 513. But picture shows a metal anchor and what seems to be a Wichita swivel.



It does remain an open question and many have, successfully, just used the 513T buttstock swivel with the wood thread for the front swivel. I also accepted that, in view of the fact that I could never locate a 513T with a machine threaded shaft, until I saw this one on eBay. It was with a bunch of misc. spare parts and it's obviously for a 3/4" or 1.0" sling, but it's definitely a 513T.

I believe, that it just may be possible to replace the wood thread by drifting out the 'pin' in the main body of the swivel and fitting a standard sized machine threaded shaft. Anybody try it yet?

I experimented and completely filed off the wood threads, but the diameter is ~0.170/0.171, which when threaded (~8-32) will not have the tensile strength (29% less) of the industry standard, for this part, which is a 10-32 (see comparison)


Nominal Size Major Diameter Pitch Diameter Stress Tensile Strength*
&
Threads per
Inch Series Allowance Max Min Max Min Tolerance Area in2 lb., min


8-32 0.164 UNC .0009 .1631 .1571 .1428 .1399 .0029 0.0140 850

10-32 0.190 UNF .0009 .1891 .1831 .1688 .1658 .0030 0.0100 1200

 

[Bolt_Trash]

What Remington buttplate screw is this... ?

I went to NUMRICH and picked-up at set for what's advertised as for 722 and they sit slightly below the 'rim of the countersink, like this:

THIS (fills the cavity, bearing on the entire surface and standing slightly proud) is a proper fitting screw:

Whatever it is, I want two (2.)

 

[Bolt_Trash]

... The best example, is a M40 original stock that sold on eBay a few months ago. Apparently, it is genuine. Dont know if somebody from the Hide got it. I was keeping an eye (both eyes actually) on the auction, hopefully to scope the deal of the century. It started off very low, so I was confident. But as soon as people found out, it went up in 100$ increments to finally sell close to 1500$.

Is this a variant with the 'straight' buttplate... ? Looks like it, from the photos.

 

[tokiwartooth]

I went to NUMRICH and picked-up at set for what's advertised as for 722 and they sit slightly below the 'rim of the countersink, like this:

THIS (fills the cavity, bearing on the entire surface and standing slightly proud) is a proper fitting screw:

Whatever it is, I want two (2.)

Do you have the part number? I have extra M1 Garand top butt plate 1" wood screws... Think these are ok?

 

[MescaBug]

Mescabug, with regards to some of the details on the stock sold on Ebay. On the original M40's, the rear swivel was a wood screw type (obviously Remington in house like the 513T) but the front swivel was threaded into an escutcheon as shown in your picture, which would be correct for the M40.

I agree. The Wichita swivels were not used before 1970. They got the contract in 1970, so early (pre-70) swivels had to be whatever brand (probably Remington in-house).

Confirmed by 2 sources, one of them being Marty from Badger Ordnance. He owns at least 2 REAL DEAL M40's.

Back to the buttplate screws, as we can see from the many pictures, the original screws are 'hollowed' in the center. Its different from the standard X pattern Philipps screw found in hardware stores. Its easy to strip the head if not using a large screwdriver. I dont think they are reproduced...

Is this a variant with the 'straight' buttplate... ? Looks like it, from the photos.

Good point. Hard to tell... Seems straight to me, or maybe a very slight angle. Was there ever a mention of a straight buttplate? (No time to read the entire thread again).

 

[mjh30]

Mesca, gotta to agree the buttplate on that stock does look very straight, could be the photographs but there's very little indication of a curve. Also yes on the screws with hollowed center both my older Remington stocks have that feature. With regards to the swivels, Bolt_trash I bought a similar threaded 513T swivel, (smaller inside diameter) to experiment, obviously I think your idea makes more sense, removing the threads or replacing the entire wood thread. Chandlers do sell the Wichita set, wood rear, threaded front, its an option for those interested.

 

[Bolt_Trash]

Do you have the part number?

NUMRICH Part No. 148770FK 721/722 Buttplate Screw, Replacement $3.40

I have extra M1 Garand top butt plate 1" wood screws... Think these are ok?

I don't have any M1Garand buttplate screws, but I've looked and they are straight-slotted.

The M40 was an assembled firearm, from parts that were (then) in the manufacturing stream. I won't hand fit a screw, but I do want a proper fitting screw.

 

[para1505]

I am looking at a Redfield base on ebay it says R700 RH SA but also has swing over on box would this be one that I want for a M40 clone?

 

[mjh30]

Para no in that base

 

[Bolt_Trash]

... Also yes on the screws with hollowed center both my older Remington stocks have that feature.

Here's a photo of an original M40 buttplate C.1969:

With regards to the swivels, Bolt_trash I bought a similar threaded 513T swivel, (smaller inside diameter) to experiment, obviously I think your idea makes more sense, removing the threads or replacing the entire wood thread.

Not my idea. Proffered by another member and was certainly worth trying, though I'm not happy that it would thread to an 8-32 machine threaded post. 10-32 is and has been an 'industry' standard and probably with good reason. I'll try driving out the retaining pin next and replacing the post with a 10-32 thread.

Chandlers do sell the Wichita set, wood rear, threaded front, its an option for those interested.

Thanks for that lead. I'd done a half-hearted search awhile ago and hadn't found those sling swivels outright.

 

[Bolt_Trash]

I am looking at a Redfield base on ebay it says R700 RH SA but also has swing over on box would this be one that I want for a M40 clone?

For a Redfield 700SA, this is what you're looking for to identify one:

In the photo to follow, I'm pretty sure the one on the left is the elusive Redfield 511153/40X, but the center and left examples are 700SA's and as you can see, there is some variation in the clipped front corners. What doesn't vary is the 700SA and Redfield logo stamps. You will come across "700-SA" (note the 'dash') and simple upper case "R" logo stamps and they will fit the early 'stepped' Remington receivers and they're probably Redfield products, but they aren't the mounts/bases that are contemporary to the period of M40 production. Be patient. I found mine on Gunbroker, advertised as Winchester Short Action mounts (70-SA.) Checked the stamps, in the photos and they were Remingtons, for sure. Good luck!

 

[tokiwartooth]

For a Redfield 700SA, this is what you're looking for to identify one:

In the photo to follow, I'm pretty sure the one on the left is the elusive Redfield 511153/40X, but the center and left examples are 700SA's and as you can see, there is some variation in the clipped front corners. What doesn't vary is the 700SA and Redfield logo stamps. You will come across "700-SA" (note the 'dash') and simple upper case "R" logo stamps and they will fit the early 'stepped' Remington receivers and they're probably Redfield products, but they aren't the mounts/bases that are contemporary to the period of M40 production. Be patient. I found mine on Gunbroker, advertised as Winchester Short Action mounts (70-SA.) Checked the stamps, in the photos and they were Remingtons, for sure. Good luck!

Are the M40 versions parkerized or blued? If parked, zinc or manganese?

 

[tokiwartooth]

For a Redfield 700SA, this is what you're looking for to identify one:

In the photo to follow, I'm pretty sure the one on the left is the elusive Redfield 511153/40X, but the center and left examples are 700SA's and as you can see, there is some variation in the clipped front corners. What doesn't vary is the 700SA and Redfield logo stamps. You will come across "700-SA" (note the 'dash') and simple upper case "R" logo stamps and they will fit the early 'stepped' Remington receivers and they're probably Redfield products, but they aren't the mounts/bases that are contemporary to the period of M40 production. Be patient. I found mine on Gunbroker, advertised as Winchester Short Action mounts (70-SA.) Checked the stamps, in the photos and they were Remingtons, for sure. Good luck!

Are the M40 versions parkerized or blued? If parked, zinc or manganese?

 

[para1505]

thanks mjh 30 and bolt trash just trying to avoid paying the $200.00 that badger wants for their replica I will just keep looking

 

[Bolt_Trash]

Remington M40 Clone mounts...

thanks mjh 30 and bolt trash just trying to avoid paying the $200.00 that badger wants for their replica I will just keep looking

Last I read, the ONLY M40 mounts available, from Badger, were for later/more recent Remington M700 receivers, that are straight and do not have a lower rear/stepped receiver. They USED TO make mounts for the early/earlier stepped receiver, but they are no longer in production and out of stock.

It's my understanding that Leupold was/is offering a 'replica' M40 mount and ring set for $199.95 (Part no. 30669B/ [MENTION=522]SWFA[/MENTION].com) They don't say, in their advertisement, what Remington receiver style, it will fit.

As long as the Redfield 700SA and their early 1 inch/LOW 4-screw rings are to be found, I'd go that route. And, why not- they are correct, documented and saw wide and varied usage, from what I've seen (not claiming to be an expert.) For the Redfield 511153/40X, be patient. I prefer to spend my money once. I've never, ever, been perfectly happy with a 'substitute' anything. Just my 1.55 cents (adjusted for inflation.)

 

[Bolt_Trash]

Are the M40 versions parkerized or blued?

From what I've seen, the mount/bases could be found with either finish. All the rings I've seen on original and surviving M40's, were just hot blued

If parked, zinc or manganese?

Good question. And, that's exactly why I'm here- to get the (best) answers to those little, lingering details.

Is someone is producing, with absolute repeatability, the parkerized finish with the green tint/tinge? I don't know if someone is, or if it's even possible. From what I've read, the green tint had something to do with oil/oils left on the barrel. It sounds great, but it's not how chemistry and actual chemical processes/production work is done- not something we don't all know, already.

So, is the best finish zinc or manganese? Lets get it answered- and that might not be possible, in absolute terms.

 

[tokiwartooth]

Got my stock today. Worth the wait. Nice piece of wood, needs some fine tuning. I'm not going to bother with the V block, but just do a bedding job on the stock.

 

[tokiwartooth]

Are the receiver screws and internal mag of the ADL compatible with the BDL? It seems the magazine is too long and the screws are too short.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

https://www.gunpartscorp.com/Manufa...895/700-39555/PartsList-34251.htm?results=All

You may need a ADL/BDL kit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AB3EHEy5xIE

 

[JayCarver]

As long as the Redfield 700SA and their early 1 inch/LOW 4-screw rings are to be found, I'd go that route. And, why not- they are correct, documented and saw wide and varied usage, from what I've seen (not claiming to be an expert.) For the Redfield 511153/40X, be patient. I prefer to spend my money once. I've never, ever, been perfectly happy with a 'substitute' anything. Just my 1.55 cents (adjusted for inflation.)

Hey Bolt Trash, where do these original redfield mounts come up for sale? ebay? Just wondering where to keep a eye out. Thanks.

 

[Bolt_Trash]

Redfield mount...

Hey Bolt Trash, where do these original redfield mounts come up for sale? ebay? Just wondering where to keep a eye out. Thanks.

If you go back in the forum, MescaBug helped me identify mine. I eventually found another one, but both of mine were found, on Gunbroker (Scope accessories,) in good/used condition. I do hunt both Gunbroker and eBay, fairly regularly. Some guys hunt the local gun shows and others pick-up mounts in trades.

You know, the mount or rings, you want, may come on a used scope or with a mount that you don't want, or need. If the price is right, purchase the package and trade or sell-off the parts you don't want. Not sure if the base is a LA or SA, but seller represents it's for a Rem700 or you see a set of early 4 screw rings, but don't know if they're stamped (if that's what you want for your project) with the "1-65" stamp, send the seller a private message- ask a question or ask for another photo. You know, gun-guy stuff.

I've got a matte finished 700-SA mount with a single upper case 'R' (it is a Redfield-I checked) for a stepped receiver and a couple of sets of the early Redfield rings (1 w/Torx screws and in excellent condition,) if someone has an interest. The mount might make a decent candidate to TIG weld the front clipped corners, shape them square, polish & hot blue to resemble the elusive 40X.

Good hunting!

 

[Bolt_Trash]

Mesca, ... Also yes on the screws with hollowed center both my older Remington stocks have that feature...

mjh30, How old are your Remingtons? I've been on a serious hunt to identify a Remington model that used those screws, on their buttplates and I'm starting to zero in on the 740.

 

[Bolt_Trash]

Are the M40 versions parkerized or blued? If parked, zinc or manganese?

A Zinc finish is a little lighter and has a gray/charcoal look. Mangangese is darker with a dark charcoal tint.

Parkerizing is a chemical process using a low strength acid combined with either Manganese (usually WWII up to summer of 1944 and then again on all post war new production) or Zinc ( summer of 1944 to end of WWII and post war [rebuilds].)

Looks like zinc... (but, ideally with a greenish tint.)

 

[mjh30]

Bolt_Trash, I have 2 700's ones dated 66, the other 67.
With regards to Parkerizing, the book says just blued, with regards the following picture the rings on the left are parked, bought them from an old timer in Albany where the Corp had the refurbish depot, looks like a manganese finish but where he was from, was enough to peak my interest to buy. The center rings and base I had parked the same time as the barreled action, the flash made them appear a lot grayer than they actually are. The base on the right is close but not perfect, center picture Redfield made a lot of different bases for the 700 action, these all fit.




With regards to getting the green tint in the parkerizing, no one is doing it as far as I am concerned, I have asked several. Most agree on older WW11 firearms it involved the cosmoline the rifles may or not have been packed in, well the USMC m40's came in their very own Plano case, so that couldn't have caused it. Shootersolutions here in WA, sells Parkerizing kits, he used to sell a grren tint that you would rub onto the firearm at the time you parked it, hes no longer offering that product because its not even ormd safe, but on his site he states if you buy a kit from him he will tell you over the phone what you need to know to get that green tint.

 

[tokiwartooth]

Where were we? Oh yeah... Here's a couple of representative 'side profile' photos of my 16601/-2- buttplate with a Silver Hill M40 stock. My 'old-timey' dial caliper is too small to measure the respective lengths of the buttplate and stock.

Some spec's first: "My" 16601 is ~1.640" at the widest point. "This" Silver Hill buttstock is 1.655" at the widest point. +/~0.015" Disclaimer: Other's mileage may vary. Overall, most deviations, in width, I found along the long axis of the buttstock were ~.010"

If I were undertaking this task, I (think) I would fit the buttplate at the top and maintain the lines at the comb and work my way down towards the mid-section to the toe. Cleaning-up the extra wood along the line extending from the toe of the fitted buttplate, should help accentuate the grip profile.

What say the pros... ??

Patience and some inletting black/or lamp soot should get the job done. The basic carpentry rule applies- you can't add wood back, if you've cut-off/removed too much.

My buttplate was the slighest bit too narrow. I wanted to freshly stand the stock a bit, so now it's a perfect fit. Curvature a tiny bit off, but screwing it down should more than take care of that.
I found getting my action to fit right a bit of a pain. There are high points all over, and my receiver was sitting too far to the left. Worked it for about an hour last night. I'm going to skip putting the bedding block in, just too much material to remove. And once you start, there is no going back. Going to think about it a little more. I am going to make my own pillars out of aluminum tubing and bed my action directly into the wood as I see some major voids.

 

[mjh30]

tokiwartooth, just take your time, already seeing some of your other work you have some excellent skills. Picture below is 67 adl stock that I removed the fleur de lis checkering from and cut for the bdl floorplate, it didn't come out too bad in the end up.

I had to be careful around the buttplate

 

[Bolt_Trash]

Bolt_Trash, I have 2 700's ones dated 66, the other 67.

Are the screws, for the buttplate, identical to the 'type' that I/we are looking for?

With regards to Parkerizing, the book says (the rings are) just blued...

That's my understanding, also. (I always wondered about your Park'd rings, in this photo. Torx screws too. Questions-Questions-Questions)

... with regards the following picture the rings on the left are parked, bought them from an old timer in Albany where the Corp had the refurbish depot, looks like a manganese finish but where he was from, was enough to peak my interest to buy.

Zinc - Manganese... gets mighty confuse'n.

Redfield made a lot of different bases for the 700 action, these all fit.

They sure did. As near as I can tell, from vintage Redfield advertising sheets, Redfield introduced the 700SA mount, with the clipped front corners, in 1968. They were still manufacturing the Gen.I Accu-Range scopes at that time also, so these mounts and scopes could have also been contemporary in their pairing and usage, on the M40, fairly early on.

With regards to getting the green tint in the Parkerizing, no one is doing it as far as I am concerned, I have asked several.

Shootersolutions here in WA, sells Parkerizing kits, he used to sell a grren tint that you would rub onto the firearm at the time you parked it, hes no longer offering that product because its not even ormd safe, but on his site he states if you buy a kit from him he will tell you over the phone what you need to know to get that green tint.

Thanks! That, is a place to start. I leads me to believe that it is, at least, possible to do.

 

[JayCarver]

Bolt Trash thank you very much for the leads and info, greatly appreciate it!

 

[Bolt_Trash]

My buttplate was the slighest bit too narrow. I wanted to freshly stand the stock a bit, so now it's a perfect fit. Curvature a tiny bit off, but screwing it down should more than take care of that.

Take your time- as in REALLY take your time to get that buttplate near perfection. It the only vertical 'line,' on an object that presents on a horizontal axis and it really stands-out.

I found getting my action to fit right a bit of a pain.

That 5% to finish a pre-inlet involves all of the very tedious stuff. Don't be in a rush. It's a lot of 'remove a little wood - recheck- add soot- recheck - remove a little wood.' The bedding material will fill-in any gaps on the underside of the action and barrel. If noticeable along the top of the stock, you won't be at all happy, though at that point, you could always paint it green or gray.

Good luck!

 

[MescaBug]

Are the receiver screws and internal mag of the ADL compatible with the BDL? It seems the magazine is too long and the screws are too short.

Not compatible... The ADL box is taller. If I were you, I would buy a steel floorplate kit from Pacific Tool & Gauge. The early Rem 700 bottom metals is steel, not aluminum. Looks exactly the same.



For those looking for an alternative to parkerizing, Cerakote has a color that is very similar to the green-ish finish on the M40. Its called Tungsten.

I've seen it on a pistol, and it is very close. Of course, its not the same 'texture'. Most tactical gunsmith shops will do Cerakote. Parkerizing is messy... Stuff from the past

Cant get enough of those build threads!

 

[Bolt_Trash]

Not compatible... The ADL box is taller. If I were you, I would buy a steel floorplate kit from Pacific Tool & Gauge. The early Rem 700 bottom metals is steel, not aluminum. Looks exactly the same.

Good photo. It's always the little details that get you and having a photo, to review, is a great advantage and visual tool. Thanks!

For those looking for an alternative to parkerizing, Cerakote has a color that is very similar to the green-ish finish on the M40. Its called Tungsten. ... it is very close. Of course, its not the same 'texture'. Parkerizing is messy... Stuff from the past

I think using Cerakote for the Bolt Shroud, Bolt (body & knob) and the Bottom Metal, the safety and the sling swivels, is the best/easiest way to achieve the requisite "Semi-Gloss" and "Gloss" black finishes on these parts.

Now, for determining what part, is what type of finish, is the fun part.

1.) The Bottom Metal is a Semi-Gloss and in that, there is no dispute.

2.) Bolt Body: Semi-Gloss ?

3.) Bolt Shroud: Gloss ?

4.) Bolt Handle & Knob: Gloss? (Somewhere, along the line, from photographs, I've got it in my head that the parts, to the rear of the reciever (the Bolt Shroud, Bolt Handle and Bolt Knob) are a "Gloss" black finish, but the Bolt Body is Semi-Gloss.)

5.) Safety Lever: Semi-Gloss?

6.) Sling Swivels: Parkerized? Semi-Gloss Black?

I'd like to find out, part-by-part, for sure.

While we're on it, S.H. member "budiceale," who invited me to this site, for my build, used Cerakote's "Armorer's Black," for his own build and was very happy with the results.

As far as Parkerizing, a/k/a "messy... stuff from the past ?" I think, being from the past and being semi-messy, myself (by my own admission,) Parkerizing, for this build, is the way to go, for the action, barrel and Redfield mount (optional, of course.)

I do like the Cerakote finishes and used it for a recent .416 Rigby DGR build. You don't want to have to take this stuff off though, if you happen to change your mind later (not recommended.)

Cant get enough of those build threads!

Yeah, well... this is important stuff!

 

[tokiwartooth]

Good photo. It's always the little details that get you and having a photo, to review, is a great advantage and visual tool. Thanks!






I think using Cerakote for the Bolt Shroud, Bolt (body & knob) and the Bottom Metal, the safety and the sling swivels, is the best/easiest way to achieve the requisite "Semi-Gloss" and "Gloss" black finishes on these parts.

Now, for determining what part, is what type of finish, is the fun part.

1.) The Bottom Metal is a Semi-Gloss and in that, there is no dispute.

2.) Bolt Body: Semi-Gloss ?

3.) Bolt Shroud: Gloss ?

4.) Bolt Handle & Knob: Gloss? (Somewhere, along the line, from photographs, I've got it in my head that the parts, to the rear of the reciever (the Bolt Shroud, Bolt Handle and Bolt Knob) are a "Gloss" black finish, but the Bolt Body is Semi-Gloss.)

5.) Safety Lever: Semi-Gloss?

6.) Sling Swivels: Parkerized? Semi-Gloss Black?

I'd like to find out, part-by-part, for sure.

While we're on it, S.H. member "budiceale," who invited me to this site, for my build, used Cerakote's "Armorer's Black," for his own build and was very happy with the results.

As far as Parkerizing, a/k/a "messy... stuff from the past ?" I think, being from the past and being semi-messy, myself (by my own admission,) Parkerizing, for this build, is the way to go, for the action, barrel and Redfield mount (optional, of course.)

I do like the Cerakote finishes and used it for a recent .416 Rigby DGR build. You don't want to have to take this stuff off though, if you happen to change your mind later (not recommended.)




Yeah, well... this is important stuff!

I bought a new production aluminum trigger guard/floor plate was bead blasted and painted black. Stripped it down yesterday and polished. Looks like brushed steel now. I'm going to anodize it a nice smooth, semigloss black.
The barrel and receiver look an almost zinc parked. This is a Dicks ADL Varmint. I'm convinced it's probably a painted finish. Duracoat Park or Tactical Grey/Green mixed with Tactical Black (and some flattening agent) would do nicely. Applied with an air brush. Looks good, though. I'm going to leave it. I'm going to strip down the bolt body and hot blue it.
Epoxy remover was used on the trigger guard assembly. It definitely was some type of epoxy based paint, a real bitch to get off.

 

[para1505]

Ok, a JR base that is for 721 725 700 long action has the squared off corners if you take and cut some off the rear of the base and drill a new screw hole would work wouldn't it?

 

[Bolt_Trash]

Mounts & means-to-an-end....

Ok, a JR base that is for 721 725 700 long action has the squared off corners if you take and cut some off the rear of the base and drill a new screw hole would work wouldn't it?

Your options (otherwise known as a means-to-an-end [of the torture])

1.)The 721 mount:
a.) Has the busy/billboard 'script' patent info. v. the simple Redfield logo, which can be altered.
b.) It has the squared front profile, like the 511153/40X.
c.) It is too long and that can be altered.
d.) And, you can drill a new hole, with the proper flat bottom countersink.
e.) You can do all of these with the proper equipment and it will fit.

-OR-

2.) You can diligently hunt for an original Redfield 700SA (correct & documented.)

-OR-

3.) You can purchase the Redfield 700-SA (notice the dash) mount that has a single upper-case 'R' stamp, that is already the proper length and has the proper mounting holes, the 700SA clipped corners, but (typically) has a 'matte' finish.'

a.) For a 511153/40X look:
1.) TIG weld the clipped corners and re-shape to a 'square-ish' contour.
2.) Remove single upper case 'R' and get Redfield logo engraved.
3.) Refinish in hot-blue or parkerizing, at your option.

b.) For a 700SA look:
1. Remove single upper case 'R' and get Redfield logo engraved.
2. Refinish in hot-blue or parkerizing, at your option.

Personally, I'm not into self-torture (if I can help it, anyway. So #2 is for me,) but, if you are and it sure looks like torture, but I guess, it's the good kind... (?)

Hope this helps...

 

[Bolt_Trash]

The M40 BOLT and it's proper finishes... To be, or not to be...

I'll limit the/my question(s), to just one (1) component topic at a time.

The M40 Bolt (Complete Assembly):

I went back to look at the original M40's photos that I've collected to use as 'guides' for my build. I referenced them in an earlier post. Below, are a few with my observations. What say the people who have been down this road already?

In the first photo, the entire complete bolt assembly (Shroud-Handle/Knob-Body,) appears to be a Polished 'Gloss-Black.'

In this second photo, the Shroud appears to be a (polished) 'High-Gloss' Black and the Bolt Handle a 'Semi-Gloss' Black.

In this third photo, the Shroud appears to be a (polished) 'High-Gloss' Black and the Handle/Knob and the body are a 'Semi-Gloss' Black.

This isn't a build with a lot of parts, but I think the finishes are a very important aspect. I'm willing to compromise on the method that is used to replicate the 'type' of finish, but not specific 'color' (excepting receiver & barrel [the green thing]) or 'finish.'

I look forward to reading your comments.

 

[MescaBug]

Ok, a JR base that is for 721 725 700 long action has the squared off corners if you take and cut some off the rear of the base and drill a new screw hole would work wouldn't it?

Yes. As I said in a previous post, the 40X base is a little thicker, but nobody will know.

Now, for determining what part, is what type of finish, is the fun part.

1.) The Bottom Metal is a Semi-Gloss and in that, there is no dispute.

2.) Bolt Body: Semi-Gloss ?

3.) Bolt Shroud: Gloss ?

4.) Bolt Handle & Knob: Gloss? (Somewhere, along the line, from photographs, I've got it in my head that the parts, to the rear of the reciever (the Bolt Shroud, Bolt Handle and Bolt Knob) are a "Gloss" black finish, but the Bolt Body is Semi-Gloss.)

5.) Safety Lever: Semi-Gloss?

6.) Sling Swivels: Parkerized? Semi-Gloss Black?

Only the barrel and receiver was parkerized. Base, scope rings, bottom metal, bolt shroud, bolt, bolt handle, safety lever, swivels was factory finish. So yes, I would say semi-gloss.

Here is some pictures of M40 #6257207 and #6257259. 100% original, USMC presentation M40 rifles, assembled but never used in combat. Featured in Peter Senich's book.

This is how they left the armory. Never used, so there is no fading, discoloration of the finish.

If you want to build a correct M40, this is the way to go. Both are 2nd gen.

I have a lot more pictures of #6257207. Ask if you want to see specific parts.

 

[MescaBug]

And of course Chuck's own rifle. We can see that the semi-gloss parts are reflecting light.

Notice how the 40X base is thick compared to the 700SA and 722.

 

[mjh30]

Safety is incorrect, was under the impression these presentation rifles were rebuilds.

 

[MescaBug]

Safety is incorrect, was under the impression these presentation rifles were rebuilds.

The 'square' safety thumb lever was rounded-off by Remington somewhere late in 69. So it makes sense that these 2nd gen rifles have the round lever. Any M40 built or refurb after the cut-off date should have a round lever.

EDIT: By the way, 6257259 sold for 36300$. Original sling was included and stamped 1977. The rifle was authenticated by the CMP and armorers from the USMC. Of course, we can speculate about its authenticity but the CMP is usually a reliable source.

 

[Okie Gordon]

Would you have a picture showing the barrel channel clearance between the stock and the barrel at the forearm area and a picture of the barrel crown style?

 

[mjh30]

Mesca, the cmp rifle #6257259 is not a Marine gun, its an Air Force rifle, delivered in 1969 that's according to the DOD registry, a presentation gun similar to this one I believe, just not sure if the USMC or CMP awarded these rifles at Camp Perry
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/snipers-hide-bolt-action-rifles/53800-m40-build-guide.html
As for colors, I was under the impression, barreled action parked, flat black on bolt,(black oxide), flat black on bottom metal, satin black on bolt shroud, well as for the rings I suppose blued.
Okie theres a picture of the flat crown in the above link

 

[grunt0311]

Safety is incorrect, was under the impression these presentation rifles were rebuilds.

For those that don't know the above rifle, the one that is behind the glass 5 posted above this one, was used by Chuck Mawhinney in Vietnam. The rifle was found in 30 years after the war still in service in Oki. They took it out of service and rebuilt it as an M40, the way he carried it in Vietnam. Im sure during the 30 years of use that the safety broke and was replaced with a round safety. Not all rifles from Vietnam came back with the flat safeties.

 

[Bolt_Trash]

... Base, scope rings, bottom metal, bolt shroud, bolt, bolt handle, safety lever, swivels was factory finish. So yes, I would say semi-gloss.

Here is some pictures of M40 #6257207 and #6257259. 100% original, USMC presentation M40 rifles, assembled but never used in combat. Featured in Peter Senich's book.

This is how they left the armory. Never used, so there is no fading, discoloration of the finish. If you want to build a correct M40, this is the way to go. Both are 2nd gen.

I have a lot more pictures of #6257207. Ask if you want to see specific parts.

MescaBug,

It's the photographs that keep me on this search for answers (just this one, actually!) Take this photo (from your selection,) for instance. Taken in natural light - no flash to influence and/or adulterate the subjects - in which - the bolt knob has a 'decidedly' 'polished/gloss' finish to it, in direct comparison to the trigger guard and bottom metal, which is immediately adjacent to it and a 'definitively and undisputed' 'semi-gloss' finish.

Gen.I with a 700SA mount in a Redfield factory 'hot-blued' finish :

Bolt bottom:

It's photos like these, above, of originals, that just drive me NUTS! So, is it possible that the bolt body, bolt handle/knob and bolt shroud were (originally) a 'gloss' finish and everything else (minus receiver, trigger guard/bottom metal a semi-gloss?

While I'm on Photobucket, here's a couple of an original 'muzzle crown' and another of a shot taken of the top of the barrel, in the stock, at the tip of the forend.

Ideally, there's just enough clearance in the stock channel, to free-float the barrel, from just forward of the recoil lug.

 

[songdogslayer]

So I am lost but I have a few questions I have a old six digit 700 with the first three digits being 148XXX and square safety and double sear. Would this be a perfect candidate for this type of build?

 

[grunt0311]

So I am lost but I have a few questions I have a old six digit 700 with the first three digits being 148XXX and square safety and double sear. Would this be a perfect candidate for this type of build?

It would absolutely be a great candidate for an M40 build or even M40a1 if you wanted to go that route as well.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

The one I examined at the NRA museum was nondescript and appeared in accordance with the original order details. That is barrel and receiver dull park'd military finish. Aluminum was anodized dull black. Bolt, black dull oxide finish. Stock had dull oil finish. That is what they got when they opened up the Protecto case. A dull looking M700 rifle before any repair parts or a Marine armorer got a hold of it in the field or at Camp Pendleton itself. Looking at what was originally a dull aluminum finish 40 years after is very difficult.