March GENISIS .... The Pinnacle Of Optics!!

[wooferocau]

Over the past months i have had many top tier optics fitted to my Desert Tech HTI.. S&B 5-25 / 3-27HP , Nightforce ATACR 7-35 , Leica 5-30 , ZCO 5-27 and 8-40 and what i thought was the top of the tree...Tangent Theta 5-25..

I had heard so much about the March Genesis 6-60 ... Superb glass and it would also allow me to get away from using a prism in front of my optics for ELR.

Took a punt and purchased 2 Genesis 6-60,s...one with the FMA reticle and one with the FML TR1 reticle.

Myself and a good friend today did some quick comparisons to my Tangent.......set both on 25x we were shocked how much better the March is!!! Much much sharper , better contrast and depth .
The March is like looking through a wide open , bright, clear window.....in comparison the Tangent is narrower in the field of view, darker and far less contrast and depth!!

Sharpness and clarity the March wins hands down.!!

Very surprised just how much better "Optically" the March is.....

This coming weekend it will be atop my HTI for some in the field usage....cant wait..

Note.......pic attached shows an image ( shitty Phone Camera Pic) of the Tangent and March this Avro looking at 1400yds across a hot, shimmery paddock. In real life it was VERY easy to see the advantage the March has over the Tangent..

 

[wooferocau]

.......... Comparo

 

[Denys]

I love your pictures; the box in which the Genesis is shipped is quite the work of art, just like the Genesis itself. The box complements the riflescope very well.

I'm interested to hear more about your experiences with the Genesis. I've only ever looked through the Mini Genesis 4-40X52 and I was impressed by it. The Genesis has the High Master Lens system with the Super ED lenses and that will make a difference in contrast and clarity, especially at longer ranges and conditions.

The Genesis presents a wide-angle view due to its design and that comes through in your pictures. The most amazing aspect of the Genesis, and one which I think contributes a great deal to your perceived difference in IQ (image quality) is the fact that regardless of the adjustment settings, you are always looking through the sweet spot, the middle of the optical path for best IQ at any range, whereas other lesser riflescope must crank in the internal adjustment, away from the sweet spot.

I look forward to more of your reports.

 

[steve123]

I haven't been able to do side by sides with many of the better optics like the OP has but have looked through most of the best scopes in times past. That out of the way...

Currently have a March HM Genesis 4-40x52, a S&B 5-25, two Athlon Cronus G2's, recently had a March 5-42, and a friend has Sawaovski X5 5-25. Only the X5 looks as nice to me as the Genesis which is superb.

My opinion is part of the reason why the IQ of the Genesis is so nice is the scope is always perfectly optically centered since the scope is externally adjusted. Also the HM glass is awesome.

Heavy as can be, high up off the barrel, massive elevation adjustment, and I'm keeping it.

Edit. When using the March 5-42 while having the elevation dialed within a few mils of being topped out, and also at 40x, the IQ wasn't very good.

Ha, to freak people out a little here it is on my 22 cal Thomas pcp air rifle/.142BC/840 fps/ that I use out to 421Y. That's my friend who is about to shoot that far away. Note how far the scope is tipped on the front. 36 mils dialed on and 4 mils windage needed.

.

 

[W54/XM-388]

A couple quick questions.
On the TT image, did you try adjusting the ocular focus and parallax to try to see if you get a slightly better image?
The TT is known sometimes for needing to be a bit more precise on your settings.

Also at 25x you are at the very top of the TT scope option but only in the middle of the March one,
It would be interesting to see how the New TT 7-35 would compare at 25x with the march since that would be more in the middle of it's range.

Did you get any side by side images with the ZCO 8-40 at 25x and the march at 25x and then at 40x / 40x as well as 40x / 60x ?

 

[wooferocau]

A couple quick questions.
On the TT image, did you try adjusting the ocular focus and parallax to try to see if you get a slightly better image?
The TT is known sometimes for needing to be a bit more precise on your settings.

Also at 25x you are at the very top of the TT scope option but only in the middle of the March one,
It would be interesting to see how the New TT 7-35 would compare at 25x with the march since that would be more in the middle of it's range.

Did you get any side by side images with the ZCO 8-40 at 25x and the march at 25x and then at 40x / 40x as well as 40x / 60x ?

TT Ocular.....yes i am VERY fussy when it comes to ocular setup and focus.... The TT has fantastic glass...its just the reality that the March is better.

Yep, understand about using max power , but that's usually the power i shoot at . The March will be VERY usable at the 40x power...

This weekend we will be setting up a gathering of optics, so will do some direct side by sides .

From my experience the ZCO 8-40 is one of the 2 worst scopes i had...quite soft and dark. The ZCO 5-27 IMO is much better optically. The other is the S&B 3-27 High Power....terrible optic. Soft and with huge distortion in the outer peripheral !! Much prefer the "OLD" PM 2... 5-25

 

[Gil P.]

Nice write up. Would you consider aiming the reticles at something like a cereal box so we can get a better idea of more minute differences between the optics?

 

[W54/XM-388]

From my experience the ZCO 8-40 is one of the 2 worst scopes i had...quite soft and dark. The ZCO 5-27 IMO is much better optically. The other is the S&B 3-27 High Power....terrible optic. Soft and with huge distortion in the outer peripheral !! Much prefer the "OLD" PM 2... 5-25

On the S&B front, have you ever tried the 5-45 or the 12-50
Supposedly those two have some of the best glass of the entire classic line of PMII scopes.
It would be interesting to have those set to around 25x and see how they compare.

 

[wooferocau]

Never seen the 5-45 S&B....but still have an 12-50..
PM2 5-25 has better optics than the 12-50..

 

[scott5456]

.......... Comparo

So just looking at them, it looks like the bush in the one picture is bigger than the other. Is that just an appearance thing due to the narrower FOV? Or maybe they both weren't at 25x?

 

[W54/XM-388]

I have to admit that March Genesis 6-60 is pretty tempting.
There was one posted here for sale a bit ago, but I think either I have bad search abilities, or the thread was deleted when it was removed / sold.

I'll probably consider breaking down and getting one if I ever find a crazy good deal on one.

 

[wooferocau]

Pic was taken with a phone....it was not meant to be scrutinised....only just an idea to try and show the 2 optics.

Trying to get pics through scopes is flawed in itself.....you really need to see things first hand.

This weekend we will have 6 individuals who have highend optics as well.....so by the end of it will have some thoughts and opinions from others.

My opinion....from looking through the actual scopes....nothing I have seen touches the Genesis!.

 

[Denys]

Ocular pics with a smartphone never do the image justice. And it's difficult, especially as the magnification increases.

The beauty of the Genesis is that you never have to fiddle with adjusting the ocular and the side focus as you pour (and I mean pour) in gobs of adjustments.

It is spendy.

 

[stemikel]

Tagging to follow your thoughts after the weekend

 

[wooferocau]

This is the same guy who supposedly had a bunch of zco scopes that were bad and saw fit to call them out here yet refused to say what the issue was, what was done about it, ect....

Not everything is appropriate to put on a public forum....
Richard from CS Tactical had I had a long chat via phone ...he knows the details of my issues with ZCO and why I chose not to elaborate.

But please DONT insinuate that the issues I had are fictional....it's NOT appreciated!!

 

[Tokay444]

Seems counterintuitive to compare one scope at full mag to one at half mag and then determine the one at half mag to be better.

 

[Feniks Technologies]

Not everything is appropriate to put on a public forum....
Richard from CS Tactical had I had a long chat via phone ...he knows the details of my issues with ZCO and why I chose not to elaborate.

But please DONT insinuate that the issues I had are fictional....it's NOT appreciated!!

I and several others know what the “issues” were and they weren’t anything to do with mechanical function of the optic as far as the optic performance.

If you want to continually remind people you had “issues” then elaborating would definitely benefit you more than just always taking cheap shots and getting whiny when someone calls you on it.

 

[Denys]

Seems counterintuitive to compare one scope at full mag to one at half mag and then determine the one at half mag to be better.

Let me explain why that's not right.

The TT is a 5-25X56 measuring 16.75 inches, with a 5X zoom ratio.
The Genesis is a 6-60X56 measuring 15.75 inches, with a 10X zoom ratio.

In a riflescope, the magnification is a function of the objective lens focal length divided the eyepiece focal length, then multiplied by the erector zoom. The TT's base mag is 5X to the Genesis base mag of 6. I have no clue what the objective FL and the eyepiece FL are for either riflescope but since the overall lengths are fairly close, I would expect there to be little difference between the various FLs. There will be some but nothing like comparing short scopes to long scopes of the same magnification. The size of the image at the FFP should be similar.

Since both riflescopes have the same size objectives, 56mm, Dawes limit (resolution) will be the same. The differences between these riflescopes are the zoom ratio, the type of glass and the internal adjustment range.

I think doing the comparison at 25X magnification is very fair. This is obtained by the zoom lenses at 5X for the TT and 4.2X for the Genesis, again, pretty similar. 5X zoom ratio is pretty standard, almost mundane in this day and age, whereas 8X and 10X zoom ratios are rarer and bring in their own challenges. So if you were to compare a March 2.5-25X52 to the TT, the March would be at 10X zoom ratio to the TT's 5X zoom ratio, but by your argument that would be fair because they are both at the top end of their zooms. (I'm ignoring the difference in objective diameter.) But it would not be a fair comparison because of the amount of zoom being used to reach 25X for both riflescopes.

The current comparison at 25X is actually quite fair because of the same objective lens diameter and similar zoom settings.

In my estimation, the differences in IQ are due to conditions and optical path. There, the advantage will go to the Genesis on both counts. The Super ED lenses in the TT are more resistant to IQ degradation due to mirage than non-ED optical glass, and the optical path in the Genesis will always be the optimum because the adjustment is done externally.

 

[CSTactical]

Not everything is appropriate to put on a public forum....
Richard from CS Tactical had I had a long chat via phone ...he knows the details of my issues with ZCO and why I chose not to elaborate.

But please DONT insinuate that the issues I had are fictional....it's NOT appreciated!!

Yes we did have a discussion, and what you described was possibly related to your sample scopes made in Austria. I have not gone down an international rabbit hole to dive into what you told me as it looks like both your dealer and ZCO Austria is giving you the proper support.
We've been reminded constantly that your sample may have had an issue on your side of the world which is not reflective on the whole.

Anything man made can and have had an issue, our extremely large sample group into the thousands assembled in Idaho has not seen these issues.

Every scope manufacturer discussed on this forum has had scopes go back to get repaired, certain manufacturers like ZCO is pretty rare. How the manufacturer supports the customers and dealers is extremely important.

ZCO and a few other manufacturers go above and beyond to take care of their customers. Not to mention that they are one of the few manufacturers that participate on the forum and involved with the community. Let's not continue to bash the one of only a handful of manufacturers that choose to participate on Sniper's Hide.

 

[CSTactical]

Let me explain why that's not right.

The TT is a 5-25X56 measuring 16.75 inches, with a 5X zoom ratio.
The Genesis is a 6-60X56 measuring 15.75 inches, with a 10X zoom ratio.

In a riflescope, the magnification is a function of the objective lens focal length divided the eyepiece focal length, then multiplied by the erector zoom. The TT's base mag is 5X to the Genesis base mag of 6. I have no clue what the objective FL and the eyepiece FL are for either riflescope but since the overall lengths are fairly close, I would expect there to be little difference between the various FLs. There will be some but nothing like comparing short scopes to long scopes of the same magnification. The size of the image at the FFP should be similar.

Since both riflescopes have the same size objectives, 56mm, Dawes limit (resolution) will be the same. The differences between these riflescopes are the zoom ratio, the type of glass and the internal adjustment range.

I think doing the comparison at 25X magnification is very fair. This is obtained by the zoom lenses at 5X for the TT and 4.2X for the Genesis, again, pretty similar. 5X zoom ratio is pretty standard, almost mundane in this day and age, whereas 8X and 10X zoom ratios are rarer and bring in their own challenges. So if you were to compare a March 2.5-25X52 to the TT, the March would be at 10X zoom ratio to the TT's 5X zoom ratio, but by your argument that would be fair because they are both at the top end of their zooms. (I'm ignoring the difference in objective diameter.) But it would not be a fair comparison because of the amount of zoom being used to reach 25X for both riflescopes.

The current comparison at 25X is actually quite fair because of the same objective lens diameter and similar zoom settings.

In my estimation, the differences in IQ are due to conditions and optical path. There, the advantage will go to the Genesis on both counts. The Super ED lenses in the TT are more resistant to IQ degradation due to mirage than non-ED optical glass, and the optical path in the Genesis will always be the optimum because the adjustment is done externally.

@Denys are you a March dealer, distributor or paid by March out of curiosity?

 

[Denys]

@Denys are you a March dealer, distributor or paid by March out of curiosity?

Neither. I'm a long time March user (10+years) and F-class competition shooter. I'm an old IT guy in real life and I communicate frequently with March.

 

[Gil P.]

Yes we did have a discussion, and what you described was possibly related to your sample scopes made in Austria. I have not gone down an international rabbit hole to dive into what you told me as it looks like both your dealer and ZCO Austria is giving you the proper support.
We've been reminded constantly that your sample may have had an issue on your side of the world which is not reflective on the whole.

Anything man made can and have had an issue, our extremely large sample group into the thousands assembled in Idaho has not seen these issues.

Every scope manufacturer discussed on this forum has had scopes go back to get repaired, certain manufacturers like ZCO is pretty rare. How the manufacturer supports the customers and dealers is extremely important.

ZCO and a few other manufacturers go above and beyond to take care of their customers. Not to mention that they are one of the few manufacturers that participate on the forum and involved with the community. Let's not continue to bash the one of only a handful of manufacturers that choose to participate on Sniper's Hide.

No one thinks ZCO's are bad. @wooferocau experiences are also likely valid, though I'd like to hear what the issues were and the resolution.

Your activity on this site would make me feel very confident if I ever bought a ZCO. I know if I I had any issues, you would help me take care of them. Isn't ZCO the only high end scope mfg that makes (or at least assembles) scopes in the US?

 

[CSTactical]

No one thinks ZCO's are bad. @wooferocau experiences are also likely valid, though I'd like to hear what the issues were and the resolution.

Your activity on this site would make me feel very confident if I ever bought a ZCO. I know if I I had any issues, you would help me take care of them. Isn't ZCO the only high end scope mfg that makes (or at least assembles) scopes in the US?

We had a discussion of his experience and said I can verify it which I choose not to as it's already been handled promptly by his dealer in Australia/NZ (I don't remember) and ZCO Austria. What more needs to be done? I'm not going to make international calls to explain that I need to explain a possible situation that we are not involved with on a forum called Snipershide We are a United States dealer of many manufacturers and our ZCO's are built in the United States in Idaho where I deal with Jeff directly. His sample has not reflected any of the thousands of ZCO's we sold here.

You can see our reputation that we have built for almost two decades and if I need to personally get involved I do! Customers have my cell phone and hit me up on here and Social media 24/7 365 days a year even when our normal business hours are the typical Monday - Friday office hours.

The chance of you having his issues are nearly non existent, I can't speak for what happens elsewhere in the world that we are not involved in.
The chances of someone having an issue internationally also seems highly unlikely but not impossible.

I have customers who rejected multi million dollar homes and hundreds of thousands of dollar exotic cars due to a flaw they perceived. Nothing man made is going to be perfect, but a company like ZCO and someone like me will get any issue resolved that comes up.

-Richard@CST
916-628-3490 that is my direct line! Please keep the explicit text messages to the minimum for my wife's sake

 

[wooferocau]

Just ordered 2 March Genesis "Mini 4-40,s this morning...... Will be interesting to to see how they compare..

Should arrive early next week..

 

[wooferocau]

Size comparison....

 

[wooferocau]

Great day today...Had a lot of fun at 1500yds with a few toys, and scrutinised a few optics as well.

A young friend of mine tried out his DT HTI "Covert" 50BMG ( 20" barrel carbon wrapped" at 1500 yds......it did extremely well.

Looked through a lot of optics at the 1500yds mark !!!......early this morning was beautiful , but mirage kicked in once the ground heated up.

We all agreed 3 stood out... ZCO , Tangent and March..

The Tangent is superb when it comes to mitigating Mirage!!! Nothing touches it in this aspect!!

As far as sharpness/Focus.....the Tangent and ZCO are a lot closer than some would think........you really are splitting hairs..
Everyone today ...agreed the March bested both the ZCO and Tangent in sharpness/focus.

The March rules for contrast/brightness and depth....again both ZCO and Tangent are "close" ...the ZCO is a tad brighter than the Tangent .

Reticles... personal choice........Tangent Gen3XR Fine is "MY" favourite.

Absolutely rapt in the March Genesis performance , The 6-60 will be staying on my Desert tech HTI and the Genesis Mini 4-40 will be replacing the Tangent currently on my Desert Tech SRS A2.

Few Pics...

 

[wooferocau]

more...

 

[wooferocau]

more...

 

[wooferocau]

more...

 

[Tokay444]

How’s the tracking on the March? Have you done a tall target test? Optical prowess is secondary to mechanical accuracy for may of us here.

 

[ohiofarmer]

How’s the tracking on the March? Have you done a tall target test? Optical prowess is secondary to mechanical accuracy for may of us here.

From the few I’ve used, you can’t get any better on tracking than “perfect.”

 

[Tokay444]

Is that a no on the tall target?

 

[wooferocau]

How’s the tracking on the March? Have you done a tall target test? Optical prowess is secondary to mechanical accuracy for may of us here.

Tracks Perfect..

 

[Tokay444]

Lol.
Unsubbed.

 

[ohiofarmer]

Lol.
Unsubbed.

I take it you don‘t know many who shoot ELR?

 

[Tokay444]

I take it you don‘t know many who shoot ELR?

If you mean that they just claim shit without any factual evidence, then no, I don’t.

 

[ohiofarmer]

If you mean that they just claim shit without any factual evidence, then no, I don’t.

Figures. Everyone I know is happy to waste $3-$5 a round not knowing if their scope tracks in the first place.

 

[Tokay444]

*slaps roof* “she tracks perfect.” - Greasy used car salesman.

 

[ohiofarmer]

*slaps roof* “she tracks perfect.” - Greasy used car salesman.

Which scopes/manufactures didn’t track for you? We know they‘re out there but apparently March, with many, many out there, has raised your suspicion. Please share your tall target findings and then maybe folks can reply with the same

 

[Tokay444]

Now all of a sudden the burden of proof is on me that my scope tracks? It’s not my thread, nor my scope. Someone is pitting March head to head against some other scopes and I asked a pertinent question, and got a bullshit answer. It has nothing at all to do with how my personal scope tracks. That’s irrelevant to the conversation.

 

[Nik H]

How’s the tracking on the March? Have you done a tall target test? Optical prowess is secondary to mechanical accuracy for may of us here.

If it can't arrange an intersection between POA and POI at any elevation setting, it is of no use to me regardless of its optical prowess. If I want optical perfection, I'll look through one of my two astronomical refractors

 

[Tokay444]

If it can't arrange an intersection between POA and POI at any elevation setting, it is of no use to me regardless of its optical prowess. If I want optical perfection, I'll look through one of my two astronomical refractors

Tracks perfect man. Some yahoo on the internet says so.

 

[wooferocau]

Tracks perfect man. Some yahoo on the internet says so.

By Christ there are some immature "Cockheads" on here!!

 

[Tokay444]

By Christ there are some immature "Cockheads" on here!!

Maybe it’s your first day on the internet, but I don’t know too many people who take randos at their word. You’ve snapped a million photos. What’s one more of your tall target test?

 

[Tokay444]

Every manufacturer would love for us to believe a guy on a website that says their scope tracks, “perfect”, but the fact of the matter is, they don’t. So, either post something that says it tracks, or say you don’t know. We’re not here for the sales pitch. We’re here to know how it actually performs.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

I'll just leave this here.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

And then this.

Quigley-Ford | Long Range Hunting Scopes

Custom long range scopes including patent pending dual focal plane and the best first focal plane or second focal plane rifle scopes for hunting & shooting

quigleyford.com

 

[Tokay444]

I'll just leave this here.

Op’s done the same test. Says it’s perfect.

 

[Huskydriver]

Can I just say the march scope has to be one of the fugliest scopes I have ever seen since the old us optics scopes..... Like was that a requirement haha

 

[rnlzkbrs]

The Tangent is superb when it comes to mitigating Mirage!!! Nothing touches it in this aspect!!

Did you try installing MD disk on your Genesis? It should help with mirage.
(https://www.longrangesupply.com/store4/index.php?route=product/product&path=34&product_id=2486 but it's included in Genesis package, so you should already have it.)