New 6mm Advanced Rifle Cartridge

[Slammin Steel]

Max PM incoming.
I have on order from Craddock a complete upper in 6 ARC 26 in , stainless, 1 /7 twist or there abouts, I think they call it gain twist.
My goal is longer range shooting, just to see what happens.. Will use my .223, and change uppers for the 6ARC.

Everyone tells me the 6 arc was not intended for long range, I just want to find out.

Thanks.
Bill

 

[Slammin Steel]

Max
My bad had not looked in my other load books. And yes the Craddock barrel is a Bartlein. I am sure Paul is swamped now.

Thanks
Happy shooting to all

 

[Bluedog82]

Max PM incoming.
I have on order from Craddock a complete upper in 6 ARC 26 in , stainless, 1 /7 twist or there abouts, I think they call it gain twist.
My goal is longer range shooting, just to see what happens.. Will use my .223, and change uppers for the 6ARC.

Everyone tells me the 6 arc was not intended for long range, I just want to find out.

Thanks.
Bill

6 ARC was designed purely for long range (1000 yards or so) out of an AR15 platform with an 18”bbl. It was made at the request of a SOCOM Unit of some sort I believe.

 

[357Max]

Max
My bad had not looked in my other load books. And yes the Craddock barrel is a Bartlein. I am sure Paul is swamped now.

Thanks
Happy shooting to all

Did you get a plus 2" or plus 3" gas system on that 26"?
I spoke to Craddock about the gas tube. For whatever reason they have the bend in them. I think it depends on the gas block, but I had to take the offset out of mine. Needed a dead straight tube.

This should be checked to make sure your tube has minimal friction in the gas key.

 

[Slammin Steel]

All that was left up to him. From what I hear the machine work is done on the barrel. Waiting on assembly, as all the parts were in stock.

Bill

 

[357Max]

Before I do any more load development on the ARC I have to get this sorted.

109 Berger's loaded out where I want them (2.290).
Edit: I didn't word this well before. At 2.290 the 109 Berger's hit the barrel on the low side of the radius into the chamber. The picture below is with a mock up round & was taken after riding the charging handle in, so pictured round is hard jammed with full buffer spring pressure against it.

This may be why the 100gr PVA Seneca's were key holing on me. Those jokers are way longer than the 109's & the Seneca points are super sharp.

Unfortunately the PRI mags are only hold 5 rounds of the ARC before they start to bind up. They have this little lip feature at the front of the mag that lifts the nose before the feed lips let go of the round. The lips lift the 109's or anything shorter loaded less than 2.300 before the bullet hits the barrel.

The ASC, C Products, & Brenton's do not have this feature and allow the sleek little 6mm's to slide straight between the barrel extension feed ramps till the tip hits the barrel.

Does anyone have an Elander mag they could take a picture of??

 

[hlee]

Before I do any more load development on the ARC I have to get this sorted.

109 Berger's loaded out where I want them (2.290) hit the barrel before the feed ramp lifts the case.
This may be why the 100gr PVA Seneca's were key holing on me. Those jokers are way longer than the 109's
View attachment 8023172

Unfortunately the PRI mags are only hold 5 rounds of the ARC before they start to bind up. They have this little lip feature at the front of the mag that lifts the nose before the feed lips let go of the round. The lips lift the 109's or anything shorter loaded less than 2.300 before the bullet hits the barrel.
View attachment 8023189
The ASC, C Products, & Brenton's do not have this feature and allow the sleek little 6mm's to slide straight between the barrel extension feed ramps till the tip hits the barrel.
View attachment 8023197View attachment 8023192

Does anyone have an Elander mag they could take a picture of??

Elander will bind up on dust in any environment outside of a clean room. But, here is a pic of a 22 Grendel in an Elander Grendel mag. No, there is not much to push the cartridge toward the center.

 

[Yondering]

Before I do any more load development on the ARC I have to get this sorted.

109 Berger's loaded out where I want them (2.290) hit the barrel before the feed ramp lifts the case.
This may be why the 100gr PVA Seneca's were key holing on me. Those jokers are way longer than the 109's
View attachment 8023172

Unfortunately the PRI mags are only hold 5 rounds of the ARC before they start to bind up. They have this little lip feature at the front of the mag that lifts the nose before the feed lips let go of the round. The lips lift the 109's or anything shorter loaded less than 2.300 before the bullet hits the barrel.
View attachment 8023189
The ASC, C Products, & Brenton's do not have this feature and allow the sleek little 6mm's to slide straight between the barrel extension feed ramps till the tip hits the barrel.
View attachment 8023197View attachment 8023192

Does anyone have an Elander mag they could take a picture of??

You may be right on the Norma Grendel brass, I’d forgotten it existed, and have not tried it.

Minor nit-pick on your terminology above: technically the feed ramp in an AR barrel is the chamfer or radius leading into the chamber. What you’re referring to is just the barrel lugs. I know that seems counterintuitive, but for sake of everyone talking about the same thing…

For long loaded rounds you’re best off with stainless ASC mags. If you need even longer, cutting the front out will get you to 2.355”, which is what I load one of my 5.56 rifles to with the 70 RDF. Don’t know if that’ll fix your feed issues but could be worth a try?

 

[Slammin Steel]

It is difficult to see from that angle, but it appears the bullet tip is ever so slightly touching the radius end of the barrel. Yes it is a beautiful picture of the lugs.
With the Stainless ASC mags & only the Stainless I have loaded my .223 out to 2.316 maximum. Have never done any cutting on mags.

Might help someone.

Happy shooting to all

 

[Jmccracken1214]

I’m looking through this thread. Has anyone used 8208 with 105-108 bullets, what velocity did you get?

 

[r.tenorio671]

Go back to page 51 in this thread I posted Lever loads for various projectiles in post #2529.
Read carefully though. Those loads are not starting points. They were in Lapua brass.
I have not yet measured case capacity for Starline or Norma so charge weight may need to be reduced for them.
I've seen claims that the Norma is the best Grendel brass, but have no first hand experience yet.

I've got a new Craddock Bartlain 22" Arc, but I keep getting sidetracked. New 22GT build last weekend & loading ladders for that. New Nuke 223 build this weekend & more load ladders. Good problems, no complaints!

Also FYI for the ARC guys. Apparently Rainier & Craddock definition of plus 2" gas is different. Not saying one is wrong but they are different so just be aware if playing musical barrels.
View attachment 8023136 View attachment 8023137

...now that is an interesting observation and pic about Gas system lengths, thank you for that pic..

 

[357Max]

You may be right on the Norma Grendel brass, I’d forgotten it existed, and have not tried it.

Minor nit-pick on your terminology above: technically the feed ramp in an AR barrel is the chamfer or radius leading into the chamber. What you’re referring to is just the barrel lugs. I know that seems counterintuitive, but for sake of everyone talking about the same thing…

For long loaded rounds you’re best off with stainless ASC mags. If you need even longer, cutting the front out will get you to 2.355”, which is what I load one of my 5.56 rifles to with the 70 RDF. Don’t know if that’ll fix your feed issues but could be worth a try?

I edited the post. Didn't word it well before. It does get a little confusing with AR's. You've got the "M4 feed ramp extension" and then the actual barrel feed ramp/chamfer as you pointed out. The latter we want minimized to better support the case, but that comes with a cost for feeding.

I'm going to see what I can possibly improve with some mag surgery.

 

[Yondering]

I edited the post. Didn't word it well before. It does get a little confusing with AR's. You've got the "M4 feed ramp extension" and then the actual barrel feed ramp/chamfer as you pointed out. The latter we want minimized to better support the case, but that comes with a cost for feeding.

I'm going to see what I can possibly improve with some mag surgery.

I haven't had to do it for any sort of long pointy-bullet rounds in these smaller calibers, but for some of the bigger stuff using flat nosed bullets I've had to massage the barrel lugs a little. That probably should be a last resort for this round, but widening the gap (basically chamfering the corners) between the barrel lugs that the rounds feed past can lower the bullet nose just enough to feed right.

Like I said, totally different caliber, but you get the idea:

 

[Slammin Steel]

B

I haven't had to do it for any sort of long pointy-bullet rounds in these smaller calibers, but for some of the bigger stuff using flat nosed bullets I've had to massage the barrel lugs a little. That probably should be a last resort for this round, but widening the gap (basically chamfering the corners) between the barrel lugs that the rounds feed past can lower the bullet nose just enough to feed right.

Like I said, totally different caliber, but you get the idea:

Dont figure I will have to do it, however I still have my porting tools for cylinder heads.

Happy shooting to all
Bill

 

[Gtscotty]

I got the Hodgdon 2023 manual in the mail today with Staball HD and Staball Match loads in it. Unfortunately looks like Staball Match is probably a bust for 6mm ARC, velocities are right there with Varget, 100fps, sometimes more under LVR and CFE.

 

[NewDog]

I got the Hodgdon 2023 manual in the mail today with Staball HD and Staball Match loads in it. Unfortunately looks like Staball Match is probably a bust for 6mm ARC, velocities are right there with Varget, 100fps, sometimes more under LVR and CFE.

Not to be concerned, I was at my home range this past Saturday and tried a new (to me) powder. VihtaVuori N530. Their website says the fastest burning of all VihtaVuori high energy rifle powders. Thought I'd give it a try and so far I'm liking it. Here is my specific load that I shot this weekend. Barnes 105gr Match Burners COAL 2.275, CBTO 1.735 (Hornady comparator) with 26.8gr of N530, CCI 450 primers, Hornady 5 x firings 6mm ARC brass. In my gun that particular bullet hits the lands @ about 2.345 so my jump is about 70 thousands. I have a Ballistic Advantage 22" Premium Series and was getting 2735 @ basically sea level ( actually 500' or so) 48 degree weather. My first run with it so I was pleased, it shot tight groups at 100 so next move was to 875 to check velocity on a truing bar then to 980 to see if my data was good. 9.6mils @ 980 with fairly easy hits . It's a powder used with guys who run 6.5 Grendel. Like I said it was my first run but with no pressure signs I was very happy. Next time out the weekend after Christmas I'll verify. Forget StaBALL you might want to give this a whirl. Nice thing about reloading is we can try things that we can't even find load data for lol.

 

[Gtscotty]

Not to be concerned, I was at my home range this past Saturday and tried a new (to me) powder. VihtaVuori N530. Their website says the fastest burning of all VihtaVuori high energy rifle powders. Thought I'd give it a try and so far I'm liking it. Here is my specific load that I shot this weekend. Barnes 105gr Match Burners COAL 2.275, CBTO 1.735 (Hornady comparator) with 26.8gr of N530, CCI 450 primers, Hornady 5 x firings 6mm ARC brass. In my gun that particular bullet hits the lands @ about 2.345 so my jump is about 70 thousands. I have a Ballistic Advantage 22" Premium Series and was getting 2735 @ basically sea level ( actually 500' or so) 48 degree weather. My first run with it so I was pleased, it shot tight groups at 100 so next move was to 875 to check velocity on a truing bar then to 980 to see if my data was good. 9.6mils @ 980 with fairly easy hits . It's a powder used with guys who run 6.5 Grendel. Like I said it was my first run but with no pressure signs I was very happy. Next time out the weekend after Christmas I'll verify. Forget StaBALL you might want to give this a whirl. Nice thing about reloading is we can try things that we can't even find load data for lol.

Sounds like good performance, similar to LVR or CFE, but from what I've read, N530 is also temp sensitive like those two. Staball Match would have been nice if it gave LVR performance with temp insensitivity, as it is I've got plenty of LVR I've been happy with, no reason to switch unless something fast, accurate AND stable comes out.

 

[NewDog]

Sounds like good performance, similar to LVR or CFE, but from what I've read, N530 is also temp sensitive like those two. Staball Match would have been nice if it gave LVR performance with temp insensitivity, as it is I've got plenty of LVR I've been happy with, no reason to switch unless something fast, accurate AND stable comes out.

Believe you're correct it being temp sensitive. I'll take the exact same load out my next couple trips and will make note of the air temp and velocities. Hopefully not too sensitive like Lever. I'll post something when I get more data. I was kind of surprised and happy with how it performed this past weekend, Lever definitely drops off in the cold but I really like it for the ARC. I just jack up the load a couple tenths in the colder weather, seems to do the trick.

 

[steve podleski]

I’m looking through this thread. Has anyone used 8208 with 105-108 bullets, what velocity did you get?

8208 is too fast. I am using Varget and it also is too fast for decent velocity. I think that LVR and CFE are the correct and safe powder speed to get acceptable velocity (2650 to +2700fps) with 105-108 bullets.

 

[steve podleski]

Not to be concerned, I was at my home range this past Saturday and tried a new (to me) powder. VihtaVuori N530. Their website says the fastest burning of all VihtaVuori high energy rifle powders. Thought I'd give it a try and so far I'm liking it. Here is my specific load that I shot this weekend. Barnes 105gr Match Burners COAL 2.275, CBTO 1.735 (Hornady comparator) with 26.8gr of N530, CCI 450 primers, Hornady 5 x firings 6mm ARC brass. In my gun that particular bullet hits the lands @ about 2.345 so my jump is about 70 thousands. I have a Ballistic Advantage 22" Premium Series and was getting 2735 @ basically sea level ( actually 500' or so) 48 degree weather. My first run with it so I was pleased, it shot tight groups at 100 so next move was to 875 to check velocity on a truing bar then to 980 to see if my data was good. 9.6mils @ 980 with fairly easy hits . It's a powder used with guys who run 6.5 Grendel. Like I said it was my first run but with no pressure signs I was very happy. Next time out the weekend after Christmas I'll verify. Forget StaBALL you might want to give this a whirl. Nice thing about reloading is we can try things that we can't even find load data for lol.

I suspect with that load you are getting high pressure that may not show up on the cases. Vit 530 is faster than Varget which I am using. Last Sunday my bolt shed a lug and locked the action. That was the third bolt that shed a lug. I am a slow and stubborn learner. I am going to lower the lower load by at least 1/2 gr and accept velocity slower than 2700fps or switch to LVR or CFE.

 

[Jmccracken1214]

8208 is too fast. I am using Varget and it also is too fast for decent velocity. I think that LVR and CFE are the correct and safe powder speed to get acceptable velocity (2650 to +2700fps) with 105-108 bullets.

Thats a bummer. I really hate to buy cfe due to the temp stability of it compared to 8208.

 

[357Max]

I suspect with that load you are getting high pressure that may not show up on the cases. Vit 530 is faster than Varget which I am using. Last Sunday my bolt shed a lug and locked the action. That was the third bolt that shed a lug. I am a slow and stubborn learner. I am going to lower the lower load by at least 1/2 gr and accept velocity slower than 2700fps or switch to LVR or CFE.

Damn 3rd bolt! How many rounds are you getting before breaking a lug?
Also are you running a RL plus ? on the gas system.
I think fast powders plus shortish gas system spells death to bolt lugs in these.

 

[Dino11]

I have not spoke about this much but with three of my gun and trying different loads using 105RDF's and Berger 109's I actually had problems getting good velocity with 8208. It shot well and grouped pretty good but not as well as Lever. The part that I was not talking about is kind of a secret I have been working on and just haven't completed the data yet. And this at this point in the conjecture is only speculation. But with the testing I have done... BLC-2 is looking like it might be the second best powder giving me similar velocities and group results or the same as Lever. Keep in mind this experiment is not yet complete. I took a picture off my tablet of one group of ten shots and it's probably not the best one I have. Just didn't feel like sorting through all the groups tonight. Hope the picture is viewable because it is off my tablet and computer screen pictures always look grainy.

Nosler 105 RDF
29.8 gn BLC-2

 

[steve podleski]

Damn 3rd bolt! How many rounds are you getting before breaking a lug?
Also are you running a RL plus ? on the gas system.
I think fast powders plus shortish gas system spells death to bolt lugs in these.

I get about 1000rnds.
I have a +2 gas tube on a 26" barrel

 

[Jmccracken1214]

Guess Ill swing by my local shop next day off and pick up some new powder.

Any reason to grab one over the other, between lever/cfe? They have cfe in stock a lot more often than lever.

They also have a good stock of 2000MR.

 

[357Max]

Guess Ill swing by my local shop next day off and pick up some new powder.

Any reason to grab one over the other, between lever/cfe? They have cfe in stock a lot more often than lever.

They also have a good stock of 2000MR.

I would go Lever if they have it.

 

[357Max]

I get about 1000rnds.
I have a +2 gas tube on a 26" barrel

Well that's about where I'm at 1000-1100. Might be higher than that & I'm afraid to count it up honestly. I know I have at least 200 cases in the scrap bin.
Is it shearing the lug adjacent to the extractor?
The reason I ask is that I'm running an LWRC Lobster tail bolt that doesn't have the under cut lugs next to the extractor.
Been running 77RDF's at 2940 & 88's at 2780 with Lever from an 18" barrel (Edit: + 1" gas on my 18"). So far so good. Most of the brass I've trashed has either been Federal or I was screwing around with powders that are to fast like 8208. RL 15.5 was a shit show also & wrecked about 30 cases.

 

[Yondering]

8208 is too fast. I am using Varget and it also is too fast for decent velocity. I think that LVR and CFE are the correct and safe powder speed to get acceptable velocity (2650 to +2700fps) with 105-108 bullets.

Glad to see you're finally coming around on Lever. You used to argue pretty hard that Varget was the right choice. IME the use of Varget is why you're breaking bolts; your load most likely makes a sharp pressure spike a little higher than you realize.

The other thing that can help bolt life a LOT is to true the receiver face. If you haven't, your bolt lugs are being loaded unevenly. Take a look at your broken bolts if you still have them - did they all start to fail at the same lugs? If so, it'd help to have that receiver trued. Doesn't really matter if it's lapped or cut in a lathe, as long as it's trued to the bore.

 

[Jmccracken1214]

I got my rcbs matchmaster dies in today and tan 3 pieces of 6.5G new brass and all 3 sized very easy but all 3 have dents in the shoulder. What is this from?

EDIT: After googling... seems using too much lube can cause this? I cleaned the die with brake cleaner, and then hornady one shot lube/cleaner.

But I did lay the lube on the cases heavy, not knowing how tough it'd be to size.

 

[AKGuide]

Yep that is from too much lube. Trim and fire and you will have fireformed cases after that.

 

[Jmccracken1214]

Yep that is from too much lube. Trim and fire and you will have fireformed cases after that.

My lyman xpress trimmer, of course doesnt have the insert for 6.5G.. so I cant trim these yet.
I was about to go drop $103 on a hornady trimmer monday at my local shop, but found the insert, paid extra to get it here next tuesday.

 

[357Max]

My lyman xpress trimmer, of course doesnt have the insert for 6.5G.. so I cant trim these yet.
I was about to go drop $103 on a hornady trimmer monday at my local shop, but found the insert, paid extra to get it here next tuesday.

Yep to much lube. Are your dies bushing dies? If so what size bushing are you using?
The neck on the left case looks a little funky. After you trim, make sure you can chamber a case before loading a bunch.

I've got that same damn Lyman that didn't come with the Grendel bushing. Was also impatient and made it out of the 223 & then just replaced that one. That Lyman will give you a blister trimming the Grendel down. It works good enough till I can swing a Henderson.

For reference I'm using a .264 bushing with good success.

Case on left is virgin Lapua 6.5 sized to 6ARC & ready to load. Case on right is 6.5G

 

[Jmccracken1214]

Yep to much lube. Are your dies bushing dies? If so what size bushing are you using?
The neck on the left case looks a little funky. After you trim, make sure you can chamber a case before loading a bunch.

I've got that same damn Lyman that didn't come with the Grendel bushing. Was also impatient and made it out of the 223 & then just replaced that one. That Lyman will give you a blister trimming the Grendel down. It works good enough till I can swing a Henderson.

For reference I'm using a .264 bushing with good success.

Case on left is virgin Lapua 6.5 sized to 6ARC & ready to load. Case on right is 6.5G
View attachment 8028773

I backed out the top of the die, and sized it and it did that. I screwed it back down and it looks normal now. I got a .270 bushing. I didn’t have a loaded round to measure so I measured my neck thickness and got the bushing size that way.

and yes it will give you a blister. I wear gloves when I’m sizing bunch of 223 brass lol

 

[357Max]

I backed out the top of the die, and sized it and it did that. I screwed it back down and it looks normal now. I got a .270 bushing. I didn’t have a loaded round to measure so I measured my neck thickness and got the bushing size that way.

and yes it will give you a blister. I wear gloves when I’m sizing bunch of 223 brass lol

Did you take off the expander ball?
Yeah there's more than one way to skin a cat. The .270 bushing may work if your not planning to use a mandrel to set final neck ID. Tighten the top of the die till it contacts the bushing, then back it off just a touch like 1/16 turn. This lets the bushing float a smidge.

I follow the .264 bushing with a 21st Century .2405 mandrel.
I also anneal every firing so not worried about a couple extra thousands during sizing.

 

[Jmccracken1214]

Did you take off the expander ball?
Yeah there's more than one way to skin a cat. The .270 bushing may work if your not planning to use a mandrel to set final neck ID. Tighten the top of the die till it contacts the bushing, then back it off just a touch like 1/16 turn. This lets the bushing float a smidge.

I follow the .264 bushing with a 21st Century .2405 mandrel.
I also anneal every firing so not worried about a couple extra thousands during sizing.

I did take off the expander ball.
Do you know why rcbs suggest that with their matchmaster dies? I didn’t take it off on my 6.5 and it shoots fine.
I anneal every firing also.

 

[357Max]

I did take off the expander ball.
Do you know why rcbs suggest that with their matchmaster dies? I didn’t take it off on my 6.5 and it shoots fine.
I anneal every firing also.

I think their idea is to set neck tension with the appropriate size bushing in lieu of the expander ball. A lot of guys do that, but I'm not sure how well that works when necking down from a larger caliber?

It's also worth noting that once necked down the Lapua loaded neck size is .002 larger than the factory Hornady 6ARC.

The above is one of the reasons I prefer to set final neck tension from the inside via a mandrel. It is my last step before powder & seating.

 

[Yondering]

I think their idea is to set neck tension with the appropriate size bushing in lieu of the expander ball. A lot of guys do that, but I'm not sure how well that works when necking down from a larger caliber?

It's also worth noting that once necked down the Lapua loaded neck size is .002 larger than the factory Hornady 6ARC.

The above is one of the reasons I prefer to set final neck tension from the inside via a mandrel. It is my last step before powder & seating.

Bushing dies are generally a poor choice for sizing down or any significant case forming. Get yourself a cheap Lee FL sizer for this first step, it'll go easier with better results.

Jmccracken1214 - The bushing-only thing was popular 10-15 years ago with a number of people, before the general shooting community figured out that only works well if you're turning case necks so they're all the same ID too. Otherwise you get consistent neck OD but inconsistent ID, which is obviously not desirable, and the whole reason the expander ball is there in the first place. RCBS is consistently at least that far behind the times in their die setup instructions. They probably still recommend screwing the sizing die down to the shellholder plus 1/8 turn or whatever, too, instead of actually measuring shoulder bump as most of us already know to do.

If you're not going to use a mandrel, put the expander ball back in. You should be using one or the other.

 

[Jmccracken1214]

Bushing dies are generally a poor choice for sizing down or any significant case forming. Get yourself a cheap Lee FL sizer for this first step, it'll go easier with better results.

Jmccracken1214 - The bushing-only thing was popular 10-15 years ago with a number of people, before the general shooting community figured out that only works well if you're turning case necks so they're all the same ID too. Otherwise you get consistent neck OD but inconsistent ID, which is obviously not desirable, and the whole reason the expander ball is there in the first place. RCBS is consistently at least that far behind the times in their die setup instructions. They probably still recommend screwing the sizing die down to the shellholder plus 1/8 turn or whatever, too, instead of actually measuring shoulder bump as most of us already know to do.

If you're not going to use a mandrel, put the expander ball back in. You should be using one or the other.

I havent trimmed yet, but set a bullet to get neck tension numbers. Loaded case measures .2685-.269. So, if I wanted .002 neck tension, I would need a neck bushing size of .266 and then a expander mandrel size of .241?

 

[Slammin Steel]

Gentlemen
Question time. Regarding dies in general, do any of the die manufacturers other than Forster drill a hole through the side of the sizing die, about the location of the expanding ball, used for air vent, and supposedly for excess lube to escape. I have a Dillon 550 B on one end of the bench, and a Forster co ax on the other. Never used any other dies, just curious, if the vent hole actually helps with excess lube, or if anyone else uses it.

From all of you 6ARC guys what are you using most expander ball, or bushing, and mandrel for neck sizing.

Dont want to open the proverbial worm can, everyone talks about too much lube, too little lube, is there a general consensus regarding what is the best lube or type of lube, "WITH" data to support the theory.

Thank you Guys
Merry Christmas to all
Happy shooting.!
Bill

 

[Jmccracken1214]

Gentlemen
Question time. Regarding dies in general, do any of the die manufacturers other than Forster drill a hole through the side of the sizing die, about the location of the expanding ball, used for air vent, and supposedly for excess lube to escape. I have a Dillon 550 B on one end of the bench, and a Forster co ax on the other. Never used any other dies, just curious, if the vent hole actually helps with excess lube, or if anyone else uses it.

From all of you 6ARC guys what are you using most expander ball, or bushing, and mandrel for neck sizing.

Dont want to open the proverbial worm can, everyone talks about too much lube, too little lube, is there a general consensus regarding what is the best lube or type of lube, "WITH" data to support the theory.

Thank you Guys
Merry Christmas to all
Happy shooting.!
Bill

The rcbs matchmaster dies have that hole drilled but with the hornady bushing on the die for my press, Im not sure if it blocks that hole from working properly or not.

 

[Slammin Steel]

Just wondering if that may have contributed to the deformities in the shoulder area.?

 

[Jmccracken1214]

Just wondering if that may have contributed to the deformities in the shoulder area.?

Possibly, but when I did a few more that I used one shot on. I had no issues.

I used a lanolin lube on the first 3 and coated them heavy to make sure it wasnt going to be tough to size and get stuck.

Ive never in 7 years of reloading had that happen using one shot lube.

 

[Slammin Steel]

Recently having problems sticking 223 cases in Forster die, but I believe it is problem with expander ball, and maybe the flash hole size.

Reason for third part of question, about lube.

 

[Slammin Steel]

Merry Christmas to all. !

Hopefully everyone got their new Red Ryder under the tree.

Bill

 

[ormandj]

From all of you 6ARC guys what are you using most expander ball, or bushing, and mandrel for neck sizing.

Full length dies (not a bushing style, expander removed) for sizing. Mandrel for ID.

 

[Yondering]

Recently having problems sticking 223 cases in Forster die, but I believe it is problem with expander ball, and maybe the flash hole size.

Reason for third part of question, about lube.

Should be easy to determine whether the sticking is due to the expander ball or the brass body - does it stick as soon as you try to lower the brass out of the die, or does it move a little first and then stick when the expander ball gets into the neck? Lack of lube on the brass OD translates to extra force pushing the brass in, then it won't budge to come out. If it comes out a little bit and sticks, that's the expander ball, because you didn't lube inside the case necks well enough.

Try a nylon brush with some case lube sprayed on it - make a pass through each case neck and try sizing again. If that's the issue you'll know immediately.

And yeah, pretty much all sizing dies have a vent of some sort in the shoulder area. If the vent is plugged it can lead to dents. But excess lube causes the same kind of dents and is much more common. I wouldn't expect new dies to have the vent plugged, but excess lube used over time can plug the hole.

I use either the expander ball or mandrel depending on what I'm loading and how. There's no single solution that's best for everything.

 

[Yondering]

Thought I'd add this about lubing - the best lube I've found is some sort of aerosol lanolin based lube. Several different brands have worked fine for me. And despite a lot of guys using Hornady One Shot, it's also the brand I hear about the most issues with sticking cases. YMMV of course.

Also, one of the easiest methods of lubing cases that I've found, having tried most of them, is to dump my brass into a ziploc freezer bag. Spray some aerosol lube in the bag (against the inside of the bag, not directly on the brass), seal it, shake it around for a minute, then dump the brass out and it's ready to size. Some of the aerosol lube particles will get into the case necks too, which helps with sizing, so try to seal the bag without squeezing it and pushing the vapor out.

 

[Slammin Steel]

Removed thread for non intentional crank yanking

Bill

 

[Slammin Steel]

Non intentional crank yanking is Verboten

Bill

 

[Yondering]

Some of this is getting into general reloading questions, and folks would probably appreciate it if we stay on topic to the 6 ARC. Maybe worth starting your own thread for reloading questions?

The Dillon vs Forster thing sounds like you’re comparing carbide vs steel dies. Obviously carbide dies don’t need much lube (or none at all for pistol cases); that’s the point of using carbide.

It also sounds like you’re not using enough lube, or maybe not in the right places. The entire case body needs to be lubed well, not just the neck and shoulder.

Edit- corrected autocorrect phone typo above, not sure why it inserted “ridiculous” instead of “into”.