New 6mm Advanced Rifle Cartridge

[Yondering]

I've kind of got my hopes up for this one.
View attachment 8017027

Agreed; I noticed there are a few different StaBall-family powders in the works and have been keeping an eye out for them. It'll be interesting to see how they do. I honestly have not had good results with 6.5 StaBall in my Creedmoor (I have to go WAY over published loads to even get close to published velocity), but many have so maybe it's just my rifle.

I'm guessing these probably won't have the velocity potential of Lever in the 6 ARC, but if one could get within 100 fps of it with decent temp stability and accuracy, I'd be pretty happy.

 

[357Max]

Agreed; I noticed there are a few different StaBall-family powders in the works and have been keeping an eye out for them. It'll be interesting to see how they do. I honestly have not had good results with 6.5 StaBall in my Creedmoor (I have to go WAY over published loads to even get close to published velocity), but many have so maybe it's just my rifle.

I'm guessing these probably won't have the velocity potential of Lever in the 6 ARC, but if one could get within 100 fps of it with decent temp stability and accuracy, I'd be pretty happy.

I don't think it's your rifle. I tried the 6.5 StaBall in Valk & 25 Creedmoor. Speed wasn't great with either. I've got a decent load for the 25C with Nosler 115 BT & 45.2 gr 6.5 StaBall @ 3050, but that's a hunting load. The 6.5 has been relegated to the back of the cabinet.
If it was all I had or could get I'd spend more time on it.

I'm screwing a new 22GT barrel on the Tika today. Might revisit the 6.5 Staball with this. I wont need to chase speed. Actually want to throttle it back a little to keep from poofing bullets. The 6.5 StaBall looks like it should give good case fill @3000 with the 90SMK's.

If the new Match StaBall gets me 2675 in the ARC with 109's and temp stability I'd be a happy camper. Probably overly optimistic.

 

[yej0001]

Debating between 6ARC and 6.5 Grendel for the next build. 6.5 Grendel brass are not abundant but available, while 6ARC are nowhere to be seen. Do you all resize 6.5 Grendel to get 6ARC cases?

 

[Rillhurst]

Debating between 6ARC and 6.5 Grendel for the next build. 6.5 Grendel brass are not abundant but available, while 6ARC are nowhere to be seen. Do you all resize 6.5 Grendel to get 6ARC cases?

I‘ve done both Starline and Lapua. Anneal and size are very straight forward (could have been done without annealing, but I didn’t). Trimming wouldn't be fun manually but Giraud knocks it out quickly.

 

[Slammin Steel]

Gentlemen
Please excuse me for posting this in the middle of a conversation. Should be a new guy Intro for each area. Been on another forum in the 6mm area. Mainly interested in the 6ARC. GTSCOTTY told me about this forum. It's all his fault I have a 6 ARC upper being built , will be loading the heavies for longer range stuff. Just trying to gather all the components.

So guys when I ask a stupid question ,excuse me as I'm late to the 6ARC party.

Thank you.

Bill

 

[GreenJavelin]

Debating between 6ARC and 6.5 Grendel for the next build. 6.5 Grendel brass are not abundant but available, while 6ARC are nowhere to be seen. Do you all resize 6.5 Grendel to get 6ARC cases?

Dude, go 6ARC. You will not regret.

 

[Gtscotty]

Debating between 6ARC and 6.5 Grendel for the next build. 6.5 Grendel brass are not abundant but available, while 6ARC are nowhere to be seen. Do you all resize 6.5 Grendel to get 6ARC cases?

I've got both, two of the ARC now and I definitely prefer it to the Grendel. I've been shooting factory ARC and using the brass, been able to get 108gr ELD factory pretty reliably for $26/box, and my rifles love it, so that wasn't bad. A lot of folks are sizing Grendel brass to ARC, probably would be easiest but since I have both, figured that would be a bad idea. Hornady's total lack of component brass has been pretty lame for a company that usually does well with cartridge launches, but supposedly Starline is going to start making ARC brass in the spring, hopefully they can feed the market with decent brass.

 

[db2000]

I've got both, two of the ARC now and I definitely prefer it to the Grendel. I've been shooting factory ARC and using the brass, been able to get 108gr ELD factory pretty reliably for $26/box, and my rifles love it, so that wasn't bad. A lot of folks are sizing Grendel brass to ARC, probably would be easiest but since I have both, figured that would be a bad idea. Hornady's total lack of component brass has been pretty lame for a company that usually does well with cartridge launches, but supposedly Starline is going to start making ARC brass in the spring, hopefully they can feed the market with decent brass.

Exactly. I don’t get the whole “I can’t find brass” routine. There’s a shit ton of 103 and 108 ammo out there for just over the cost of brass alone.

 

[Slammin Steel]

I've got both, two of the ARC now and I definitely prefer it to the Grendel. I've been shooting factory ARC and using the brass, been able to get 108gr ELD factory pretty reliably for $26/box, and my rifles love it, so that wasn't bad. A lot of folks are sizing Grendel brass to ARC, probably would be easiest but since I have both, figured that would be a bad idea. Hornady's total lack of component brass has been pretty lame for a company that usually does well with cartridge launches, but supposedly Starline is going to start making ARC brass in the spring, hopefully they can feed the market with decent brass.

Thank you for the reply .
If I may ask where are you buying the factory ammo.? I do have 100 rounds of the 6.5 grendel to resize later this winter, but that's another post later.
I spent a lot of time here yesterday ( cold,wet, gray cloudy day) read thru 35 of the previous posts. Lots of varied uses for the 6 ARC.
As I said waiting on a complete upper to be built, I am a member at a club where 600 yards is the longest range. My son & I will make it to Spearpoint Ranch in northern Ks 2 maybe 3 times a year. ELR shooting. I know they have the range for 2 mile shooting, maybe more. Really nice place, great people that own it. My son with his .338 Lapua on a savage bolt action rang the 24 " X36 in. steel at 1 mile, took him 11 rounds to get on target. Only one to do it that weekend.

I am going to see what the 6ARC will do for longer ranges, at Spearpoint, but primary use will be at the local range. Dont really care about paper punches, admire those that do it so well. Dont care about competition, only shooting for the fun. No longer hunt, lost the desire to take a life.
Could shoot all the deer, and turkey from the back door. That's enough dont want to write a book.

Thanks guys
Happy shooting to all
Bill

 

[YotaEer]

I’m about to convert my 6.5 Grendel to a 6 ARC. I’ll be using once and twice fired 6.5 Grendel Hornady brass to load from.

I’ve never converted one caliber brass to another, so maybe this is a dumb question, but should I still anneal my 6.5G brass before “resizing” it to 6 ARC?

 

[Ledzep]

If it's got 2 firings on it, might as well anneal the neck/shoulder. It'll make it a little easier on you.

 

[YotaEer]

If it's got 2 firings on it, might as well anneal the neck/shoulder. It'll make it a little easier on you.

And still do this before sizing it to 6 ARC?

 

[Ledzep]

Yeah I always anneal before resizing regardless.

 

[rpoL98]

Thank you for the reply .
If I may ask where are you buying the factory ammo.? .....

I use AmmoSeek searches to find the best deals, and proceed from there. Sometimes there's a lot, sometimes, there's a little.

 

[AKGuide]

Anneal and resize through your arc die. Don’t forget to trim you will need to trim a lot.

Reuben

 

[Jmccracken1214]

Anneal and resize through your arc die. Don’t forget to trim you will need to trim a lot.

Reuben

Will it be fine to resize and then trim? Do you need to run through the sizing die again after trimming?

 

[AKGuide]

Will it be fine to resize and then trim? Do you need to run through the sizing die again after trimming?

Trim after sizing and start your load development.

 

[Jmccracken1214]

Trim after sizing and start your load development.

It going through a 6arc bushing die as 6.5 Grendel brass will still be fine, correct?

 

[Yondering]

And still do this before sizing it to 6 ARC?

No, I've always had better success with well-formed necks if I anneal after forming for 6.5 down to 6mm. Besides, you'd want to consider annealing after anyway; work hardening happens from brass movement, and the forming operation involves more brass movement than at any other time.

As a general rule, the only time I've found it better to anneal first is if you're necking up significantly, to the point that it's cracking case necks. Like my 358 wildcat made from 6.8 SPC - that one gets a big neck up, and does better if I anneal first. But that's really the only exception; for most everything else the necks and shoulders seem to form better if they have not been annealed first.

Might as well try a few pieces before annealing to see what works better for you.

 

[Slammin Steel]

So talking about new grendel 6.5 brass you guys resize , move the shoulder back first, then trim to length. Sorry I am a newbie at doing this.

Bill

 

[Ledzep]

I've only done it accidentally so far, by picking up other people's left-over 6.5 Grendel brass at the range while I collect my 6 ARC brass. I've sized like 5-8 of them now... So apparently it doesn't take anything special over what I normally do...

- Tumble/clean
- Hornady 1-shot spray lube
- FL Size die

The Grendel cases that get mixed in scare the shit out of me because it feels very different from the 6 ARC's. It's a little more force and it feels like when you crush/ruin a case... Then when I pull the ram back down there's a long-necked ARC. I've trimmed a couple of them and they fit/function fine but I didn't want to have mixed head stamp stuff so I've just tossed the few that I've done.

 

[Slammin Steel]

Thank you Sir.
I had planned on annealing first ( new starline brass) then resizing, without the ball expander, in a full length Forster die, then trim to length.
Any suggestions from those much more experienced than I.
Will be tinkering with it when really cold a d nasty later this winter.

Thanks.
Bill

 

[YotaEer]

No, I've always had better success with well-formed necks if I anneal after forming for 6.5 down to 6mm. Besides, you'd want to consider annealing after anyway; work hardening happens from brass movement, and the forming operation involves more brass movement than at any other time.

As a general rule, the only time I've found it better to anneal first is if you're necking up significantly, to the point that it's cracking case necks. Like my 358 wildcat made from 6.8 SPC - that one gets a big neck up, and does better if I anneal first. But that's really the only exception; for most everything else the necks and shoulders seem to form better if they have not been annealed first.

Might as well try a few pieces before annealing to see what works better for you.

This is exactly why I wanted to ask.

I know common practice is to anneal before resizing, but thats resizing the same caliber. There would be much more stress put into the brass forming it to another caliber.

Conversely, I wasn't sure if annealing after forming the 6.5G brass to 6ARC would result in any spring back.

 

[Slammin Steel]

Maybe the experienced guys will be kind enough to enlighten us. Will be nice if and when Starline make 6 ARC brass. Hornady has not been great at supplying any, and Lapua slowed everything down. I will keep looking for more of the 6.5 grendel, as well as everything else. Will not be having Levrerolution sent to the house, not for todays prices.

Thank you to all.
Happy shooting to all
Bill

 

[Yondering]

Thank you Sir.
I had planned on annealing first ( new starline brass) then resizing, without the ball expander, in a full length Forster die, then trim to length.
Any suggestions from those much more experienced than I.
Will be tinkering with it when really cold a d nasty later this winter.

Thanks.
Bill

I would not anneal new starline brass before necking down to 6mm. I've switched to using all Starline lately, and always get better results when sizing down without annealing.

But yes, size first, then trim and anneal. Doesn't matter which order you trim and anneal.

Edit - granted, results from this do vary with different dies, so try it both ways with your setup.

Also, bushing dies are generally a poor choice for necking down to a different caliber; a standard full length size die will almost always give better results. But you'll still need the ball expander in that Forster die; I'm not sure what your goal is in removing it. If you're planning to use a mandrel instead, do that before trimming and lube it well.

 

[Jmccracken1214]

What bullet are you guys shooting?

Id love to get a berger hybrid, but out of stock at my store and i have $100 gift card to use there.

They have hornady 105 bthp and 108 eld and berger BT target.

 

[Yondering]

This is exactly why I wanted to ask.

I know common practice is to anneal before resizing, but thats resizing the same caliber. There would be much more stress put into the brass forming it to another caliber.

Conversely, I wasn't sure if annealing after forming the 6.5G brass to 6ARC would result in any spring back.

Yeah, you're completely right on resizing brass for the same caliber.

But when necking down (or up), you're causing a lot of brass movement. Annealing before this step can leave a lot more neck tension from the forming process than you'd normally get from ordinary resizing, but more importantly, making the brass too soft can affect how well it forms. Issues can be things like crumpled shoulders, uneven case necks, etc.

If you really want to make the cases as perfect as possible, you can form -> anneal -> trim -> resize again. That final resize isn't really necessary, but follows the same process as all your subsequent loadings of those cases, to make that first loading as close to the same as the others as possible.

It feels like a better wordsmith could have made that sound simpler, and it is simple. But hopefully that helps.

 

[Slammin Steel]

Personally I wanted the 109 Berger hybrid. On a will call list if and when Powder valley gets them in stock. I did snag some 115 grain Bergers several weeks ago. Wanting to try 6 ARC at longer distance. I'm waiting on a new upper for my rifle, so just gathering all the necessities when possible.

You might try subscribing to the companies, or Facebook

Good luck
Bill

 

[Yondering]

I use the Hornady 105 BTHP more than anything else, but also picked up a decent supply of 105 Barnes Match Burners last year when there wasn't much else available. They seem to shoot very similarly to the Hornady in my 6mm rifles.

 

[Slammin Steel]

Yondering
Thank you for the reply. I visited with another guy on a different forum, was getting away from the 6ARC , claimed he had nothing but problems with it bulging.

Thank you for your process. I will be trying later when I don't want to be out in the shop.

Good shooting to all.
Bill

I use the Hornady 105 BTHP more than anything else, but also picked up a decent supply of 105 Barnes Match Burners last year when there wasn't much else available. They seem to shoot very similarly to the Hornady in my 6mm rifles.

Is a wordsmith the same as a blacksmith?

 

[Slammin Steel]

Yondering
Thank you for the reply. I visited with another guy on a different forum, was getting away from the 6ARC , claimed he had nothing but problems with it bulging.

Thank you for your process. I will be trying later when I don't want to be out in the shop.

Good shooting to all.
Bill

 

[Slammin Steel]

You setting neck tension the first resizing of new starline 6.5 grendel brass, or maybe the last resize before loading.
Thanks
Bill

 

[Jmccracken1214]

I use the Hornady 105 BTHP more than anything else, but also picked up a decent supply of 105 Barnes Match Burners last year when there wasn't much else available. They seem to shoot very similarly to the Hornady in my 6mm rifles.

I was set on buying 500 of the 105 bthp but have read on a few sights that they have a pretty wide weight or length measurement… not so consistent from lot to lot.
I’d hope the 108 eld has a little more tlc when they make it

 

[Slammin Steel]

Getting to be guy does not what to buy. I still need to purchase more, but question manufacturer, and weight, till somebody else has better suggestions. Many others than I burning out barrels.

Good luck.

 

[Slammin Steel]

I would not anneal new starline brass before necking down to 6mm. I've switched to using all Starline lately, and always get better results when sizing down without annealing.

But yes, size first, then trim and anneal. Doesn't matter which order you trim and anneal.

Edit - granted, results from this do vary with different dies, so try it both ways with your setup.

Also, bushing dies are generally a poor choice for necking down to a different caliber; a standard full length size die will almost always give better results. But you'll still need the ball expander in that Forster die; I'm not sure what your goal is in removing it. If you're planning to use a mandrel instead, do that before trimming and lube it well.

Thank you.

 

[Yondering]

I was set on buying 500 of the 105 bthp but have read on a few sights that they have a pretty wide weight or length measurement… not so consistent from lot to lot.
I’d hope the 108 eld has a little more tlc when they make it

If you actually need (not just imagined numbers) something more consistent, look to a different brand. The ELD models have never been any more or less consistent for me.

 

[Yondering]

Yondering
Thank you for the reply. I visited with another guy on a different forum, was getting away from the 6ARC , claimed he had nothing but problems with it bulging.

Thank you for your process. I will be trying later when I don't want to be out in the shop.

Good shooting to all.
Bill

Bulging where, and when? Bulging during sizing? Not sure what that would be, other than maybe annealing before case forming.

If it's bulging around the case head when firing, your guy was running pressures way too hot. He also may have had an AR barrel with the feed ramp cut way too deep; some have done this, being ignorant of the specifics of the Grendel-based case, and it results in bulging in front of the case head.

 

[r.tenorio671]

So talking about new grendel 6.5 brass you guys resize , move the shoulder back first, then trim to length. Sorry I am a newbie at doing this.

Bill

...depends on your dies. I use the Hornady Custom, 2-die set and did not have to trim beforehand, YMMV. What you want to test first is if your dies will allow it, run a 6.5G case up into it and see what you encounter. Some folks remove the decapper & expander when they resize/convert 6.5G brass to 6ARC, I didn't have to.

 

[Slammin Steel]

Bulging where, and when? Bulging during sizing? Not sure what that would be, other than maybe annealing before case forming.

If it's bulging around the case head when firing, your guy was running pressures way too hot. He also may have had an AR barrel with the feed ramp cut way too deep; some have done this, being ignorant of the specifics of the Grendel-based case, and it results in bulging in front of the case head.

Gentlemen
Here is his explanation of what happened. I'm really thankful you ("RSGs") really smart guys), are kind enough to share prior experience, and I was smart enough this time to ask questions before.

Thank you
Bill

"At first I start with the 6mm Grendel aka the 6mm AR in an AR15 match rifle. After the first firing the brass was very hard to resize. I was using a full length Type S Redding and would, more often than not, get a bulge in the case body above the rim. The bulge would not allow the cartridge to chamber. I thought using the small based ARC would possible change that if I sized short with it on virgin brass. No luck. Still bulged."

 

[357Max]

Gentlemen
Here is his explanation of what happened. I'm really thankful you ("RSGs") really smart guys), are kind enough to share prior experience, and I was smart enough this time to ask questions before.

Thank you
Bill

"At first I start with the 6mm Grendel aka the 6mm AR in an AR15 match rifle. After the first firing the brass was very hard to resize. I was using a full length Type S Redding and would, more often than not, get a bulge in the case body above the rim. The bulge would not allow the cartridge to chamber. I thought using the small based ARC would possible change that if I sized short with it on virgin brass. No luck. Still bulged."

I'm a little lost here. Is that explanation from the guy on the other forum?
There were a lot of wildcat 6mm AR's. Could have had less body taper etc. Then when trying to form some unknown wildcat 6AR back into saami spec sure it might be hard to resize.

Keep it simple. Start with either saami 6 ARC or size down saami 6.5 Grendel.

When I size 6.5G - 6ARC I've always done so with new brass. New brass is already annealed to the correct hardness at neck & shoulder.

I do the following for new 6.5G - 6ARC:

• Set up headspace comparator to a piece of 6ARC brass fired in my chamber
• Lube (lanolin alcohol mix for me) new 6.5G brass
• Run through LE Wilson FL bushing die with expander ball removed and a Short Action Customs .264 bushing. Set shoulder .002 shorter than fired case.
• Clean 20 min with ss pins Lemi shine + Dawn. Blow off with compressed air.
• Anneal
• Trim, chamfer od/id, & blow off again
• Bake in Wifey's wall oven on cookie sheet @275 for 40 min
• Prime .003-.004 below flush
• Dip cases in Imperial dry neck lube & size neck ID with 21st century expander mandrel (I use .2405 for AR)
• Powder
• Seat bullet

As for dies I'm not a fan of the Hornady They size to small at the base. Johnny's reloading bench did a video showing the problems he had trying to size down 6.5G Lapua. Left a bulge like you described & it wouldn't chamber.

The LE Wilson is on point to saami & after sizing reformed & once fired Lapua you cant tell were the die stopped near the .200 line on the brass. It's literally seamless. I'm really pleased with the Wilson FL bushing dies. Great value for the $.

Redding type S should also be good, but I don't have one in 6ARC. They are GTG in the calibers I have them in.

As for brass. Some of the factory 6ARC Hornady has been to small (below saami min) at the .200 line. When I resize there is a step where the case gets sized properly & yet the base is still too small at the .200 line. A reverse step/bulge. I guess this will let me know when I start getting to hot on the loads. Hasn't happened yet. After 3 firings there still small at the base.

Lapua brass is money as it should be. Just make sure your gas system & ejector tension is tuned. My AR doesn't tear up the brass at all.

I've got 500 new 6.5G Starline sitting here, but haven't gotten to sizing any yet. I may size a couple this weekend just so I can check H2O capacity as compared to Lapua & Hornady. The later 2 are so close in capacity they can use the same powder charge and have been within 10fps of each other.

 

[Slammin Steel]

357 Max
Yes sir that is from my conversation with another gentleman from another forum, ( hope I am not it trouble), & his reasoning why he was giving up on the 6 ARC.

I finally let it get the best of me got the Forster die in the press removed the decapping pin and the expander ball removed. Cycled the press check with case comparator ( do not have an upper for the rifle yet) no fired cases. Shoulder needed to go back more. Readjusted & shoulder moved some, needed more. Finally got shoulder within 3 to 4 thou, still long. Feeling what I thought was excessive pressure stopped. I believe the brass may be need to be trimmed first then final bump back on shoulder. Cases look fine, no bulge do dings, nice round case mouth. Put the expander ball back in cycles it . .2395 / .240 case mouth I D. Case OAL is 1.512. / 1.513 so roughly .023 / .025 off of length.

So guys there is my rookie story with the 6 ARC and resizing grendel brass.
All of my previous reloading is done very similar to the 357 Max. Cleaning drying, the whole smear..

Definitely no expert, first experience doing this, however not really difficult. With some precautions.

Happy shootin to all

 

[Yondering]

Gentlemen
Here is his explanation of what happened. I'm really thankful you ("RSGs") really smart guys), are kind enough to share prior experience, and I was smart enough this time to ask questions before.

Thank you
Bill

"At first I start with the 6mm Grendel aka the 6mm AR in an AR15 match rifle. After the first firing the brass was very hard to resize. I was using a full length Type S Redding and would, more often than not, get a bulge in the case body above the rim. The bulge would not allow the cartridge to chamber. I thought using the small based ARC would possible change that if I sized short with it on virgin brass. No luck. Still bulged."

I don't think your friend had any idea what he's doing, and seems oblivious to the fact that the cases were bulging because his loads were too hot.
"Sized short"? What? That sounds disturbingly like someone who doesn't understand headspace and is just trying to size the case further than it should go.

I suggest you'd be best off to ignore any input from that person, and learn to do it correctly from the start. So far you seem to be on track for that here.

 

[Slammin Steel]

I just started a conversation with a fella selling his 6ARC dies. I was looking for brass thought maybe, but as my luck runs a day, late.
He states the bulge comes from the resizing . No matter now.

I feel relieved now that I have formed several, still want to see what is going on at the top of the stroke, dont feel quite right. I will only be using Starline brass, or Hornady if it ever becomes available. Lapua if and when it comes back. Anyone suggest other brass I am not aware of.?

Thank you to all that have replied to an "Older New guy." It is appreciated

Happy shooting to all

Bill

 

[Yondering]

Resizing doesn't create a bulge near the case head, unless he was using small base dies that are way more undersized than usual, or the brass had been swelled up from firing.

As a side note, there is almost never any need to use small base dies in these rifles, with the exception of VERY tight chambers which are pretty uncommon. Most instances where people think they needed small base dies, they really just needed to bump the shoulder back a little more.

Starline is the best brass you can get for this round. Lapua is consistent but weaker in anything Grendel-based, and will bulge around the case head at lower pressures. Starline is consistent and more durable in my experience. Hornady brass is OK but second tier, with everything else trailing somewhere behind that.

Edit - I’d completely forgotten Norma has made brass now. I haven’t tried any.

 

[357Max]

I picked up some Norma 6.5G to try in the ARC. Heard good things about the Norma, but haven’t tried any yet. It’s about impossible to find though.

 

[Slammin Steel]

Moving forward, I read most are using Leverevolution, being aware of pressure issues,how many grains are you using under what grain of bullet.
Is the Norma brass, better than Starline. I have never had a problem with Starline in anything I've loaded, pistol or rifle.

Thanks
Bill

 

[max1840]

I just finished converting 200 new Starline 6.5 grendel cases to 6mm ARC. Not a bulge in any of them. Now to load and shoot them

 

[357Max]

I just finished converting 200 new Starline 6.5 grendel cases to 6mm ARC. Not a bulge in any of them. Now to load and shoot them

What dies are you using?

 

[max1840]

What dies are you using?

Hornady

 

[357Max]

Moving forward, I read most are using Leverevolution, being aware of pressure issues,how many grains are you using under what grain of bullet.
Is the Norma brass, better than Starline. I have never had a problem with Starline in anything I've loaded, pistol or rifle.

Thanks
Bill

Go back to page 51 in this thread I posted Lever loads for various projectiles in post #2529.
Read carefully though. Those loads are not starting points. They were in Lapua brass.
I have not yet measured case capacity for Starline or Norma so charge weight may need to be reduced for them.
I've seen claims that the Norma is the best Grendel brass, but have no first hand experience yet.

I've got a new Craddock Bartlain 22" Arc, but I keep getting sidetracked. New 22GT build last weekend & loading ladders for that. New Nuke 223 build this weekend & more load ladders. Good problems, no complaints!

Also FYI for the ARC guys. Apparently Rainier & Craddock definition of plus 2" gas is different. Not saying one is wrong but they are different so just be aware if playing musical barrels.